Gangrel_EU
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Quote:Oh 100% agreed, if anything what I was saying was as an explanation for what was said earlier on, and yes it is pure conjecture on my part.Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
Neither of which explains NCSoft coming out at the beginning of October and saying 'we've exhausted all options'. If Seoul was still in 'no comment' mode, I could see this, but...
Right now, I have my optimistic opinion, my cynical opinion, and my really cynical opinion. I'll keep all three in balance for now and wait and see.
Now this could well have been a recent decision, one that due either the SaveCOH or Brian Clayton or any other factors that I cannot think of actually moved their hand to do such a thing, so their early October statement could well have been true *at that point in time*. -
Quote:I have a feeling that there might have been some contractual/legal issues which would have prevented a sudden shutdown/sell on though. What they are, I don't know, but I have a feeling that they decided to take the "safe" route for them (not the player point of view).Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Trying to keep open minded about this, it does rather tie in with the Oct 2nd Statement from NCSoft.
However my gut reaction would be - if they had that in mind as an initial strategy; close the game down, sell the IP (and I'm still very unclear why that needs to happen) - then why give it such a long sunset? Surely if that was their preferred course of action, then the best would be to arrange the sale in secret previously, shut the game down VERY quickly, sell, and allow the new owners to do what they will. -
Quote:And even if NCsoft do release the stuff for CoX, they will still always be the enemy who should be destroyed?Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's owned by the Nameless Enemy.
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Quote:A friend that I went to university ended up being the editor of one of the UK PC gaming magazines that closed down.Originally Posted by Terwyn
Indeed. I would cite the decline of traditional publishing as having a significant impact on the fortunes of nearly all gaming experiences, as I can think of one or two gaming magazines that have had to close their doors in entirety over the past two years.
I feel kinda glad that I turned down the "Eve Online reporter" job request from him, because I saw even then that PC magazines were becoming filled up with more and more advertisments (actual ads for PC gear and games), and less "reviewing games/hardware/tips/letters etc etc".
One of the last magazines I bought was 120ish pages long, and 1/2 of that was advertisments. There were only about 10 pages of PC reviews (15ish games), and another 20 for PC "upcoming games" (only 10 games).
And that was start of 2011. -
Quote:We could also say that since NCSoft killed off the EU side of their offices that it was an early sign for the game...Originally Posted by Terwyn
We also have a game that had a non-existent advertising budget. That alone proves fatal for many ventures.
I know many people over here in the UK who *love* super hero games, but due to a general lack of advertising budget for EU side, we never really saw hide nor hair of any advertising for *any* of NCsoft games past their 3/6 months launch window.
Now, I do also remember CoX being on a few coverdisks back in 2008 (ish) over here... but that was just a couple of magazines doing it as a once off...
Wish it happened more, but as PC gaming magazines became harder to come by, and one closing a couple of years ago, it looked bad for PC gaming.
Now with everything being more and more online, I was (to be honest) generally surprised with the general lack of coverage for CoX... there are exceptions, but it was still few and far between. -
Quote:Hey, how did you know what I was drinking right now?Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I'd like to apologize to all of the people that my repeated avatar gives seizures to... However, I do get a kickback from the paramedic services incurred, so I can't honestly be that sorry.
Money trumps all... except for hair... money does not trump hair, clearly...
If you ever want to know whether or not there are truly good cures for male pattern baldness, just check rich people's hair...
In all seriousness, everything I said above is equal parts true and untrue and the various landscapes in-between.
If this causes you problems, you may want to send money to my paypal account and I will make it my priority to examine the possible errors that I made.
Also, I did not type this. I had one of my pygmy henchmen type it for me.
If there are any hidden messages within this text, it is entirely not of my doing. -
Quote:Well, lets go back to the titan network forums shall we?Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Where?
*bolded the important parts*Quote:Originally Posted by Victoria VictrixFirst off, this post is NOT meant to discourage you guys. Just remember we have to deal in facts as well as hope.
Larry did some fact-checking and money-tracing (he's the brains of our operation, I just do the heavy-word-lifting). This is what he found.
"The essence of it all appears to be as simple as this: NCsoft is owned by Nexon Co. Ltd., and Nexon has a record of only being interested in what benefits Asian gamers, and last quarter, their push was heavy East and EU.
Paragon Studios employed 80 people. Nexon employs 3,400. City made $800k clear profit a month. Nexon's quarterly was $242 million, and their latest 1 of 60 MMOs registered 3 million players in China last month. Nexon has been at a steady $1.1 to $1.2 billion dollar company for 3 years.
As big as CoH has been to us, City wasn't even a blip seen from Tokyo and Seoul. Someone 5,000 miles away (who likely never played any game the corporation owns---and even their largest shareholder only has a 21 percent share) said "reduce North American assets," and this happened. And with a billion people in China as a market for Nexon's free-to-play/micropayment 2D MMOs versus a highly-technical American-based 3D MMO, they saw no reason to bother (or, really, even take notice)."
This is actually something we can parlay. I mean, hello? $800k PROFIT PER MONTH with an 80 person staff? That sounds like a THRIVING small business to me! This is something worth investing in! If any of you actually write on small business blogs, this story would be worth starting over there--giant asian firm DUMPS profit-making business. This could get any potential investor worth his salt salivating.
In this post alone she says it twice.
And she was asked about that figure as well. As far as I am aware, she has always defended that figure, although there was enough evidence to the contrary to prove that CoX was *not* making $800K/month profit.
Ok, so maybe not $10mill+, but $9.6mill is close enough to $10mill.
Please note: I have never said that the game made $10mill profit per year, well at least not recently. During its opening couple of years, it was likely.
Just in case you are wondering, I have found 3 threads where she has stated the 800K/month figure (there might well be more, these are the ones that popped up for me on a quick search).
Re: Potential argument to investors (September 9th 2012)
Re: Shipping Jobs Overseas (September 9th 2012)
Re: Star Power (September 9th 2012)
Now, a couple of people over there *did* contest this figure, because to them it didn't make any sense. However, from what I can tell on the threads, it looked like it was a general uphill struggle to get a "how did you get to that figure" answer.
I am actually still waiting for the answer anyways. -
I will just add this though, might as well get a complete story for those out there:
Quote:I will personally be taking this with a pinch of salt and all that stuff, but at least this does make sense (and to be honest, far more sense than what VV has said in the past in my mind).Originally Posted by VictoriaVictrixI, too, cannot reveal my source, but it is solid, and I hope you will accept my credibility at this point. Let's just say I had an interesting afternoon gathering information.
Fansy's source is correct. The reason that the game "must" be shut down before it can be sold is because of perceived legal problems and liabilities on the part of the NCSoft legal department. (It's not lawsuits or potential lawsuits with Marvel, but other issues regarding ownership). Apparently dealing with the Garriott case scared the whey out of them, and they are now jumping at imagined shadows. They won't even consider selling until it is officially "dead."
The bad news: the game will close Nov 30.
The good news: it can rise from the ashes.
Is it true or not?
*shrugs* that is for you to decide on, I am not saying its true, and I am definitely not going to pushing this full board out there, but at least it *can* give a couple of believable reasons as to why stuff has happened as it has...
It might also be a reason as to why NCsoft were not talking about selling the game, or even the astronomical price that they might have been asking.
*shrugs* Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled thread. -
Quote:oh you mean Glassdoor.comOriginally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
This is from commentary on a web site related to employer comparison. It's postings from alleged NCSoft West employees. Since they are posting anonymously - well, I think you see why I take it with a grain of salt. Unless there are real names behind it I call it a rumor.
I can probably hunt around for it again. It's NOT on the Titan boards though.
Has been brought up in the past on these forums as well as the Titan Network forums. -
Quote:From what I can remember being said on these forums when the "engine licensing" was brought up, was that NCsoft had been licensed it in perpetuity for City of Heroes and also for a 2nd MMO.Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
I was never clear on how that arrangement came to be, as I knew the modern Cryptic Engine used in CO and STO is not what is used in CoH. Well... bummer!
If NCsoft are allowed to "release it to the masses" is another thing, one which I believe that only Cryptic are allowed to authorise. -
Quote:Well, that means that anyone can develop for the console without having to get licensed for it, so it is a slightly different case.Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
From Wikipedia:
After the Atari Corporation properties were bought out by Hasbro Interactive in the late 1990s, Hasbro released the rights to the Jaguar, declaring the console an open platform and opening the doors for homebrew development.
The Jaguar was legally theirs and they would have been within their rights to just sit on it and let it rot while preventing its fans from (legally) enjoying it ever again. But they officially let it go, thus spreading more joy and happiness into the world (not that they're not already a source of fun and joy with all the games and toys they make). Why can't that sort of thing happen more often?
Also, the people are not allowed to use the Atari Logo, or say that they are authorised or approved by Hasbro.
So there are limitations on it.
And as far as I am aware, no-one is allowed to develop a *clone* of the Jaguar either.
So whilst I can see where you are coming from, it is a different case for it. -
Quote:Oh i will agree about the Court of Law (Assuming you are referring to the Garriott court case here...), where they did try to at least mislead people about how stuff worked over in S. Korea and resignations.Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
The biggest complaint, and a valid one, is there is no way to substantiate that it is an actual asking price from NCSoft.
That NCSoft has a history of deceit is well established, and in an open court of law. I would suspect that is a contributing factor in their alleged decisions to pull out of Western markets if that is indeed the case. Again this is mostly rumor but it has more substantial sources than what has been bandied about around here.
However, the same stuff happens with US companies as well...(thinking about Apple/ebook price fixing, as well as the recent Apple/Samsung court case debacle)
Oh, and Apple playing smarty pants with Samsung in the UK and getting smacked by the UK judges. -
Quote:So in your case, you were not even trying to save the game, but just trying to buy a development studio and a crap load of private information?Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
I estimated at the time the IP was earning at minimum a rate of 5 mill a year. No less than 10 mil and no more than 15. My original estimate seems to have been pretty close as I found out later. Now, with the loss of Paragon Studios, its senior staff, and player accounts (among other things)... The IP is now probably worth at most 500k. NCSoft doesn't even own the engine. That still belongs to Cryptic Studios. We weren't after the IP. We were after the studio and player accounts. Those were the real assets.
((Which for the EU players, you would have had to ask each and every single account holder if it is OK to share with others...)) -
Quote:But considering that the information came via someone who has managed to somehow confuse things up quite easily... i would still be inclined to take it with a pinch of salt.Originally Posted by Terwyn
That could be very well because the source was one of the investors themselves, who preferred to remain anonymous.
I can think of 2 that she has has said in the past on those forums that she has refused to corroborate on, or avoided to explain to a satisfactory degree:
1) The game was making $800,000 profit per month.
2) Apparently, she was told that the forums were going to be closed down on 1st September. She even said that it was in the initial announcement.
I had a problem with both of them, because with all of the evidence that we as *players* could easily view, they were contradicted.
So no offence, but I am going to take that $80million prediction with a pinch of salt.
Oh, and number 2 she apparently found out via email sent to her by a developer (which was deleted soon after reading), and she cannot remember who it was, nor the exact contents of it.
Number 1 was, I believe, worked out by her husband... but once again, NCsoft figures dispute that, and as those figures have been used by members of this board to support/argue against NCSoft/Paragon Studios for several years, I find it unlikely that we were reading them wrong. -
Quote:Tar, feathers, duct tape and a lamp post?Originally Posted by Fire Man
We need to do something for your birthday, 'Net.
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Quote:Expecting 6million outright would have been impressive. The Original Guild Wars took a few years to hit 5million sales.Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
(Though, on the other side of the coin, GW2's financial woes started long before the "Boycot NCSoft" movement did, or even before the announcement about CoH's closing was made. It was underselling right out of the gate - they expected 6 million sales, they got 2 million. That's a expectation-to-reality failure on the same scale as the notorious E.T. game for the Atari 2600)
Then again, I never heard the prediction of 6million sales... but I did hear something about 4million sales...
*shrugs* To be fair, I think that this is a problem with the whole range of industries, especially where you are starting to hit saturation points for their own market.
A more interesting metric would be "how many people from Guild Wars 1 joined their account up to Guild Wars 2?". That would give you an idea at least of the number of people who have migrated (or just bought) both games.
*shrugs* -
Quote:Indeed, and it looks like the #SaveCOH group will do everything in their power to make sure that this happens.Originally Posted by JKedan
There's a difference between 'I won't play it, but you have fun' and 'I will do everything I can to make sure your fun dies like mine did'.
So, whilst NCsoft might have the mission statement of making people happy, it looks like the #SaveCOH group have the mission statement of "Making peoples lives as unhappy as possible".
And screw it if you are an innocent bystander, you are collateral damage and deserve it for consorting with the enemy.
#SaveCOHKillsCommunities -
Quote:Ahh, then you showed your naivity. The City of Hero GM's are NCsoft employees. They always have been as well.Originally Posted by AvelWorldCreator
Actually the support ticket was just an information gathering step. I seriously did not expect to use it to actually start negotiations.
Those tickets fire off an email to a company employee. Doing so with the expectation that it would go to a Paragon Studio employee and one that had connections to several internal departments (which customer support normally needs to operate effectively) was the intent. Especially if that employee was looking for any chance, no matter how remote, to save his/her job. When that employee can't even direct you to a web portal, identify a department, or give a name, that's pretty strange. Even a "Call the corporate office" would have been a reasonable reply. It's one way to bypass the company operator.
No. I wasn't being lazy, stupid, or incompetent. I was taking advantage of my general knowledge of corporate operations.
But just wondering, did you actually try to go any further or did you actually stop at this stage?
Because looking at the information you have told us, you just gave up. -
Quote:Oh agreed, it was definitely most interesting, and it was also highly unlikely to work honestly.Originally Posted by CyberGlitch
Actually, I just checked and I'm 2nd degree connected to TJ Kim through one of my board members. Like I said, if you have even modest understanding of business networking, its not that hard to get someone's attention these days via "official" channels. I do find using the support ticket approach...er....interesting though.
My 1st port of call would have possibly been taken from this page.
It would have probably gone a few steps further than the support ticket. -
Quote:Trying just a basic search "Kingdom Come Games and linkedin" via google actually didn't throw anything up for me.Originally Posted by CyberGlitch
Well, it threw up the website for him, and the facebook page, but nothing at all to do with Linkedin.
So whilst that extra information is handy... thanks for letting his name out in the open. -
Quote:So where will you find the one true CoX community?Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
The Community dies if the Community wishes to die. If the Community wishes to endure, it will.
So for you, the community dies when the server shuts off. For others it will endure on the Titan Forums and with Plan Z.
On the Titan Network Forums? On a facebook page? On the Unleashed forums?
Can you save *all* the community? No, you cannot.
However, you can save a part of it.... but it will not be the same as the original though. -
Quote:Partially countered by This article. I have to admit, I believed what you have said, in that there was an earlier game that shared *exactly* the same name.Originally Posted by Quin
Blame this one for that.
Btw, there was also a Star Fox game released on the C64/Spectrum a few years later than the Atari version... I seem to remember that at least in the UK gaming reasons they were listing the C64/Spectrum version as the reason for the rename... -
Quote:You learn something new every day, and that then further explains why they chose to rename the series to Soul Caliber then....]Originally Posted by Quin
[Tangent]
The reason Soul Edge had to be renamed is thanks to our good friend (read: extremely dishonest crook) Tim Langdell, a notorious trademark troll who persued frivolous lawsuits against anyone who used a name with "Edge" in. Namco decided not to bother with him and just renamed Soul Edge to Soul Blade to avoid problems, and a court eventually ruled that they were totally different and nobody would confuse them anyway.
Mr. Langdell came unstuck thanks to a combined effort between EA (Over Mirror's Edge, iirc), and Future Publishing.
[/Tangent]
However, this confusion reminds me of the whole Star Fox getting renamed to Star Wing/Lylat Wars all those years ago.... -
Quote:If the game is rated based *purely* on the promotional artwork, then the ESRB rating is *not* doing its job.Originally Posted by Ogi
One thing to B&S's credit is the outfits are items but they don't affect stats so you can chose your look without having to run around in a micro-bikini just because it has better stats than your full plate armor suit.
That said, bypassing the ratings system is a pretty sleazy move.
Market it for what it is. Let it tank on its own merits.
It should be based on the content of the game.
If there are rules and regulations concerning what you can and cannot show for promotional artwork, then that is it. *shrugs*
To be honest, I would be more worried if they were shooting for the "T for Teen" rating and trying to do this by the method that you are suggesting. However, as far as I am aware, they are aiming for the "M for Mature" rating, and if that still has rules and regulations in terms of what you can and cannot show in promotional artwork, then so be it.
Complain to the ESRB board about that problem. NCsoft are just following the rules. -
Quote:Well if they are claiming rights over anything that uses the word "Soul" and is in an asian "martial arts world".... then Namco should go after NCsoft.Originally Posted by LadyGrimrose
Sorry to despoil the Soul Blade issues, but in fact the game is, in fact, a fighting game MMO set in a world very similar to Soul Calibur. There are a number of fighting game players in our group and all of them had the same reaction to the name after the initial "expert" had his say. What they got ticked off about is the gross similarities between the two concepts. So to say Brand Recognition isn't there, it is.
They haven't.
Infact, Soul Blade was used *purely* for the 1st game of the series, and even then only in the US/EU and Australia. Sure, that is a lot of potential players, but it looks like they decided on Soul Caliber as the actual franchise name (14 years and counting).
Although, if they *did* try to claim rights over this, then I would actually put them into the same category as Apple who have just managed to get a design patent for a visual display device in the rectangular form with curved corners. And that is as a company that should be shot.
Now, if Namco had decided to use the Soul Blade name for *all* of the EU/US/Australian releases, then I can understand it. However, 16 years has passed....