Folonius

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If you don't want to PvP, then don't. But the OPs solution fixes many of the current problems, will keep a heavy portion of people who already PvP, and will attract others who are curious about PvP, the zones, and RP. So regardless if they are going to PvP in the zones or PvE or whatever, there will actually be more people in the zones.

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And it will drive people who are disgusted with PvP in general away from the game. If people aren't PvPing in PvP zones, it's not because they don't see enough of it out on the streets. PvP in PvE zones will accomplish absolutely nothing other than irritating the hardcore non-PvPers.

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What are you talking about? Read the post and then start critizing. Nowhere in the OP's post does he mention PvP in a PvE zone.

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Taking all powers and making them available to all players would make the game nearly impossible to be balanced. As stated to do this you'd need to totally rewrite a fundamental part of the game and it's not going to happen. He addressed it, but completely misses the point that it's never, ever, ever going to happen so all of the suggestions made are a moot point because they're hooked together onto this one feature being the solution to the problem.

I'm all for creative feedback to the devs, however it's not creative when it's unrealistic.

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I missed where the OP supported this. If he did, I would have disagreed with it. I skimmed through it again, and still don't see it.

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This mental segregation is foolish.

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No, it's not. And I'd thank you not to so offhandedly dismiss my opinion with insults. It's not foolish. In fact, it's one of the major philosophies in this game when it comes to PvP. PvEers who don't like PvP at all should not ever even have to see it. They should be able to go about their business and not have to confront more than the most basic indications that it even exists in this game.

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Unfortunately, it's exactly these type of people that are a large part of the problem.

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And? If someone doesn't want to PvP, that's their choice. Get over it. Let them do what they want and you do what you want. I have no interest in PvP. I don't need incentives dangled in front of me, it won't make any difference. I don't need it waved in front of my face, that will only annoy me. And I -DEFINITELY- don't need the hostility in /broadcast that is almost always present where PvP is present.

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If you don't want to PvP, then don't. But the OPs solution fixes many of the current problems, will keep a heavy portion of people who already PvP, and will attract others who are curious about PvP, the zones, and RP. So regardless if they are going to PvP in the zones or PvE or whatever, there will actually be more people in the zones.

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The blaster can hit at range while staying in the air but the scrapper can't get into the air to fight back. Thus is ceases to be PvP and becomes a turkey shoot for the blaster with the scrapper being nothing more than a victim


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This is where the flagging can come into effect. The scrapper would be able to flag between a PvE and a PvP build in HB's example. Where he states

HB:
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Flagging
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the system would be explained and an option given to create a PVP power-build. Accepting this option, a respec would begin to create a separately standing power build. Powers could be repicked/slotted and copies of all currently owned enhancements would be available to be emplaced.
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Thus the solution to PvP is to totally remove archetypes and give every player access to powers which let players create characters with no severe weaknesses.


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I think what you mean is to take all the powers and put them into one pool? But no, that won't happen because it's a dumb idea. It removes everything that Co* stands for. It removes all RP value, and it's very very exploitable.

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I read most of the OP. I agree that PvP does have a steep learning curve and etc but he seems to lean increasing PvE in pvp zones and throwing PvP a few bones. In my opinion, there should be little, if any, pve in PvP zones. A hapless PvEr wanders into WB to get a nuke and gets killed by a stalker/blaster. The PvEr now is hostile toward PvP and won't give it a chance.

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His post addresses this issue

Edit:
It's right here:

HB:
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However, the value in the development goes up if switching between the build-types is tied directly to the player's PVP flag.
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Consider if one first had to speak to the zone mission-contact and click "switch to PVP mode" in the menu; only then having the 30 second timer begin. This would have an immediate salutary effect on zone behavior since players can choose not to become a target and if someone wants to play with them they will have to entice them. Potential new players also have freedom to explore the zone, ask questions, and make observations without constantly looking over their shoulder or falling prey to outclassing bullies seeking easy "rep" points.
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It goes on to explain more, but i'm not going to quote the whole thing

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My concern is the sheer amount of work it would take to implement those ideas. As HB says, it's a gamble that might not pay off. I know I speak for a lot of people when I say we don't want the broken-at-concept PvP detracting from our PvE experience, or keeping content from being added to the game.


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Lets face it, the PvP system is bad, and it needs a rehaul. The dev's are going to have to get down and dirty with it, and it's going to take time. Yeah adding anything is a gamble, but it can be added over time to see how the changes would take effect. As a PvPer, I don't see any issues with any of the suggestions HB made, and I don't think it would effect any of the people already heavy into PvP. I even hear people who already PvP alot complain about things that HB brought up.
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The other main issue I have with HB's solutions is that they are complicated not just from the developers' standpoint, but also from the players' standpoint. That's a lot of work to switch from a PvE build to a PvP build.
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I think the solution needs to be simpler, as simpler is always better. And that solution has been around for years: every player is the same.


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Yes this implementation would be time consuming for the developers to make, and yes it would require maybe a half hour of the players time to do a respec. If that half hour of time is the only thing that would be stopping a player from doing pvp, then this new system would work great. Simpler is most definetly not better. If every player were the same, there would be powers that give -acc -dmg or other special damage powers, but still do the same amount of damage. And if you take all those special powers away, and just do straight damage, well that would be boring, and I wouldn't PvP anymore. I would probably getted bored of the game, and go find another MMO that had a decent style PvP system with ease of soloing and doing missions like Co*. So in the case of PvP, simpler wouldn't help anything.

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I'll break it down for you pax ....

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That's funny., You accuse me of not reading a post ... and then, to defend that accusation, you fail to read a post. You know, the very FIRST sentence after the big, bold, yellow "standard response" title:

"There are many flavors of this sort of suggestion, and I'll try to answer each one in kind."

It's a pre-packaged "one size fits most" response, that covers all four of the most-popular varietyesof PvP-and-PvE-mixed suggestions. Part (3) is the one that (obviously) addresses the bit I was responding to, because that part of hte OPs idea directly suggests a way to opt out of PvP despite being in a PvP zone.

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/facepalm

just.go.read.the.post.please.

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I take heart in the fact that everyone is not in agreement with pax.

I'll break it down for you pax ....

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#1: a seperate PvP/PvE server
The primary reason not to do this is, quite simply: it's just a STUPID idea. (Get used to that, it's a common thread throughout this post.)

The reason that takes a bit longer to explain is: maintaining seperate servers like this, for a game that was not designed from day zero to have different server types? Means that you've essentially split the game into two (or more) versions of itself. Now, there's twice the opportunity for bugs, twice the work needed to develop new content, twice the testing needed for that new content ...

... and overall, the pace of new issues slows to a comparative crawl. NO, THANK YOU.


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This is irrelevant to the OP's post. Nowhere in his post did he mention this.

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#2: World PvP (typically with "flags") on all servers
Once again, the biggest reason to say no: it's a cosmically STUPID idea.

The longer reason: this game started out as purely PvE. Thus, a large segment of the playerbase is exclusively, even rabidly, PvE. They do not want PvP activities occurring within their sight - wether they are involved or not.

And really, even those of us who do occasionally PvP, do not want to face repeated smack-talk from the less mature among the PvPers, in a misguided attempt to get us to turn our PvP flag on. Having a "/duel" command spammed at us every few seconds would not only be be not fun ... it would in fact be supremely irritating.

The third drawback here, is that the already-minority PvP population would be spread out very VERY thin. Right now, for any given server, they are all in one of five places: Bloody Bay, Sirens' Call, Warburg, Recluse's Victory, or the Arena. If they could get PvP anywhere ...? Including those same already-PvP locations, there are roughly FOURTY FIVE zones in all of COH and COV. You would spread the SAME small population out over NINE TIMES as much area; frequency of PvP would inevitably decrease, not increase, as a result.

Taken together, these mean that you would increase the irritation of non-PvPers, while simultaneously decreasing the enjoyment of pro-PvPers. That, sir or madame, is a lose-lose proposition, no matter how you look at it!

So I say, a second time: NO, THANK YOU.


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Again, Irrelevant to the OP's post as he did not mention World PvP. Only the ability to flag between a PvP build and a PvE build. While in PvE it allows the player to learn a little about PvP without being ganked. There are several options here, one being a toggle, another being a fixed time limit until he is attackable to allow a learning curve (maybe a week)

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#3: PvP-OFF flags for PvP zones
Once again: this is an unbelievably STUPID idea.

But once again, to rebutt at greater length: while I have spent most of this post trying to keep PvP out of my PvE ... I must, in all fairness, point out that the PvPers should not have their little corners of our world watered down in any way. There is absolutely nothing in any PvP zone that you MUST have (inane villain Accolade requirements included, much to my own dismay).

When you enter a PvP zone, you consent to be attacked by other players. The big sign out front, the obnoxiously-loud klaxon sound, the big-red-number countdown ... if these don't manage to clue you in, then to be perfectly honest, and perhaps rudely blunt: IMO you're too stupid to breathe ... so please, stop.

Leave the PvP out of our PvE, indeed - but don't try and take the PvP away from the PvPers, either; fair's fair, after all.

Thus, a third time: NO, THANK YOU.


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This will be needed, as stated above, if the developers want pvp to increase. Whether it's a fixed limit, or a toggle, that's not up to me. The dev's can figure that one out.

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#4: /DUEL-ing in the streets
Adhering to the pattern of prior points: this is a stupendously STUPID idea.

And per usual, to expand upon that objection, I will ask you to hearken back to days of yore ... all the way back to, um, eleven paragraphs above here, in Point #2, where I said that many PvE players - the oldest, most loyal, longest-term, and possibly most populaous faction of the Co* Playerbase - would absolutely despise even witnessing a PvP encounter?

Furthermore, you just know that some yutzes will make it their mission in life to sit at the Train, SG portal, Market, or at any other high-traffic "choke point" spamming /DUEL commands at everyone in sight. I've seen this happen in other games - chiefly WoW - and not only does it lead to increased lag on everyone walking by, the crowd itself is very inconvenient, when trying to get through and past them to X or Y NPC.

Thus, a fourth and final time: NO, THANK YOU.


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Again, what are you talking about? This has nothing to do with the OP's post.

If you are going to critize the OP's idea, give him the decency and at least read it. Don't give a cookie cutter response that makes absolutly no sense. The only things remotly coming close to being on target for a rebuttal is #3, and that, for what the OP is suggesting, Isn't a good reason to not have flagging.

And besides,

Ex Libris:
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You bring up some great points in this post, I for one am a huge supporter of the cross over builds!

Ex


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He liked that idea ...... If you actually read it, flagging = crossover builds.

I don't see how your rebuttal has anything to do with how the OP described Flagging.

I hope the dev's use the majority of your suggestions. I particulary liked the bank mission idea in sirens.

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I have the money. Wow, i figured people would be more accepting of someone offering free money. But hey if you guys are just gonna question it i'll ask for a mod to delete the thread now.

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I like the idea in theory, but I do have a few thoughts.

First off, Posi mentions the original concern of the high cost 'gating' poorer users out of the process. Then at the end mentions how he thinks they might go for more than the Very Rare enhancements they're about to add even though they'll be not quite as rare as 'Very Rare'. Considering some people seem willing to pay 75 million for a 7.5% global recharge recipe this concerns me not just a little.


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last I checked, 7.5 LOTG was selling for 40mil. I just recently bought 2. And influence isn't that hard to come by. Make a toon that can solo a map, like a fire/kin troller, spawn a map from a 6 man team, and run it solo. I get about 30mil a run in drops.

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I'm very happy about this change, but there's one thing that bugs me.

We can't store recipes in the Vault. If I get a freespec recipe and want to save it for a rainy day, I've got to lose a spot in my already limited recipe inventory.

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Just park it in a Wentworth's slot. Yes, it still takes a slot but it allows you carry one more recipe.


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Pretty sure you can stack recipes to, so you could save up to 10 respec recipes in one slot