Felonious81

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I don't think asking a question is nerf herding. Putz is putting a lot of work into determining the top priorities for PvPers, and I'd guess she's just looking for people's thoughts on the subject. Obviously people don't agree on it - which is probably why she asked.

People need to stop this knee-jerk crap, state their opinion, and chill out.

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If that was the case, where are all the threads on 30% unresisted blaster dmg, unresisted defender debuffs, slow suppression, Brute Fury, villain epic pools made by Miss Putz- Countess of PVP, Lady of Wishlisting posts, Eater of the Triple Thunderthigh chocolate birthday cake, ruler of VR nation, and founder of the tinfoil hat brigade!

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When the OP said theirs 450 accounts in the ladder alone, I retorted with taking her own sg roster and basically slashing the number of accounts in half of how many people actually play.

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OMG Fel you're right that totally was the best retort ever! Like when you said

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look at how many multiple accounts from your own roster Putz. Nuff said. Quick look says their is at least 13 people with double, Helly has 3, Ajax who knows how many hes got in there.

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I was totally blown away! Damn, like if only I could've mentioned that when posting the numbers:

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There are over 450 unique accounts involved in either or both of the SG and VG ladders on test. Some of those are people with two or three accounts, but it's not 50 people.

Similarly, 220ish people are signed up for the Test PvP League. A good percentage of them aren't on ladder teams. It effects those players as well.


Not saying these aren't tiny numbers still (they are), but there are way more than 50 people involved in test PvP these days.

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Oh, hmm, it looks like I did. When did they change the definition of retort to "repeating what was already said"?

I was going to leave it be, but really, you shouldn't brag about "figuring out" something that was openly stated with the numbers.




As is there's a decent majority of posters in the thread who support some sort of change to cage. The cage note on the wish list is probably going to be changed to something along the lines of "Many people feel that permacaging should be looked at. Discussion is availble [link to this thread]." It's currently looking highly unlikely that this will make the top ten, though.

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LOL the unstable OP has gone all emo over one of my posts, so far she goes on to quote different sections of my commentary. What lead to this Putz? Im going to try and psycho analyze what lead to your swift fall to what some call my level.

Did someone smear your name on your Birthday cake who wasn't you? Was your cake Buttercream instead of your favorite triple thunderthigh chocolate? Maybe it has nothing to do with that and me referring to you as the OP and not Miss Putz- Countess of all that is PvP, Queen of the Ladder and the poster of all that should be nerfed or what you like to say "wishlisted" . Sry I don't feed into fugly chicks ego building, go to Ed for that plz .

Now back to some points of interest-

1. you made it sound like theirs 450 people with a few who have two-three accounts, (LOL, I chuckled when you came up with that number, you spent the time to count like a good dog, awwwwwww <3 ). I looked 5 seconds at your groups roster and came close to halving it with all the dual/triple accounts VR had.

2. If their was 450 people in your ladder (LOLZ), not everyone of them is affected by cage in one bit. 75% of them will never be caged close enough to be considered perma and a good number of them will never play a sonic. Thats how I estimated 50 at most are affected from high-end pvp groups. From the numbers you gave below their are less than 50 people in this thread.

3. You or anyone here haven't given a reason why the Dev's should spend attention on a potential problem which only affects a small percentage of high end test server pvpers. A majority of the player base would rather their time be spent elsewhere. In addition to the fact that no one has taken into account how this could affect caging in live pvp.

4. Why dont you and the ladder just ban or limit caging, like you have done so with so many other things. Maybe its cause you don't have enough votes to get it done within your already small community. So your resort to making wishlists and stomping your large nerfherding feet and hope the Devs bail you out.

Good attempt at trying to dismiss my retort. You get A for effort but C plus for execution.

I think they speak for themselves quite well and are very good sonics. I'd like to see these these perma caging sonics, who are spot on with keeping everyone buffed up, and contribute in debuffing and spiking the target. In matches with them didn't see them able to perma cage,buff, and debuff/attack, having played a sonic its a fine balance between the three tasks. Fact is my arguments are the most logical here and its clearing up the stupidity from the very first post and on.

Let's go back to my logic, why should the Devs spend their time on a potential problem which affects at most 50 high end TEST server pvpers. I see about 15 people in this thread who want cage changed, a good number who say leave it as is, not a clear majority either way. When the OP said theirs 450 accounts in the ladder alone, I retorted with taking her own sg roster and basically slashing the number of accounts in half of how many people actually play. I then dwindled that number down further by in essence saying if your not a perma cage target or the cager, it is not affecting you or your "fun" . Your basically left with the sonics who play on SG teams and whiney blasters who cant get past a 15 second cage.

I then provided a course of action which is not foreign to the people in the ladder. Banning or limiting the number of cagers as they did to troller cage when it was 30 seconds, vengeance use, having to wait two weeks before playing in your SG's matches and so on. NO ONE has come back with a valid reason- why they would be against doing this or why the Dev's should spend time on an issue which affects so few-when the majority of the player base would rather see their time spent else were.

I don't have to realize anything about what's the percentage of PVE sonics take cage, thats your point. A point I would like to see some hard numbers, a point you can't be a good dog and fetch those numbers and you know so. So you make assumptions about how many people do so.

Time to throw in the towel for you, cause quite frankly your grasping at straws. Every response to my so called "stupidity" actually validates my points more and more.
So........cry..........moar.............plz!

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Sure if I wanted to I could just follow him and keep him out of the match as long as possible, except my contribution to my team would be minimal and probably not worth having me on.

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A good Sonic can keep a target perma-caged (or nearly perma) and contribute debuffs and damage.

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Here's a gameplay negative impact- I'll use a quick example. Ex- A sonic is trying to get a nuke in WB, hes attacked by em/invun brute, he's not interested in dying and losing his codes, so he cages the brute, now instead of being able to ward off brute with cages when he attacks, suppression kicks in and hes dead after an ET and TF. Theirs a negative impact you just reduced the surviviability of these powersets. Thats just one of the many examples, which can come up on live pvp. Would it affect me personally, no cause lol at zones but it would affect more people than the 10-15 whiners in this thread.

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First, the cage duration on the first cage is more than long enough to effect an escape. If you needed to chain cage your opponent you've already done something significantly wrong or you're being attacked by more than one player. Second, your attempt to trivialize the issue with wording like "10-15 whiners in this thread" greatly lowers the value of any legitimate argument you might make. How many people who aren't arena PvP'ers even take the cages? Most PvE'ers think view them somewhere between useless and situational.

If you want to raise issues then do so without attempting to insult people, if you want to insult people and waste time (which is what it looks like to me) then go [censored] yourself.

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I guess Im a pretty piss poor sonic then, You could prob say the same for guys like Omega and Ajax since in my previous IPVP league matches against their teams, it didnt seem like anyone was perma caged the entire match on my team, I dunno maybe they were'nt trying too.

Also were are your numbers of how many people who don't pvp take cage? I'd like to see some hard data, go work hard at that, then come back to me with some facts like a good dog.

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I still havent seen the following question answered. Why should people who use the power on live for whatever reason have to worry about cage changes/suppression when theirs at tops 3-4 groups who pvp on test who are so called "abusing it". Why have the Devs spend time to change a power to compensate for the playstyle of a group of under 50 players?

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You're starting to sound like the PvEers who say "Why should the Devs spend any time on PvP when only 1-2% of the populations even participates in it".

Let's just scrap the whole damn thing and go back to farming Dreck and running Shard TFs since nobody really PvPs anyway, right?

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Its the truth though Goldie, what was the last real addition to pvp, lol the Cage map. So now you want Dev attention for a power which affects a miniscule part of pvpers, when pvpers are already a small percentage of paying customers. Its not like we are talking about arena map selection which is nothing but a positive additon, your talking about altering a power which would affect the survivability of a larger number of pvpers. The "bug" portion of it has already been fixed, be thankful for that. The Dev's trying to add cage suppression or diminishing returns probably would set Issue 12 back 2 months.

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I understand where you're coming from. But keep in mind that it's not like anyone is going to the Devs and saying "Change cage plz". It's just one item on really long list of things to look at. If they decide it's not worth the time or effort, so be it.

Personally, I think the whole concept of caging is a piss poor game mechanic. I can't think of another game that allows you to essentially tell another person, "You don't get to play", at an auto-aimed push of a button. I think it's cheesy as all hell and doesn't belong in a competitive game. But that's just my opinion.

When the community policed itself and multiple cage teams were frowned upon, it wasn't that big a deal. But when you start bringing in 2-4 sonics and multiple gravs, where does it end? In a post-veng stacking world, Sonics bring enough to the table to warrant their place in the lineup even without the ability to perma-cage...so I think the "diminishing returns" thing is a little played out. Their buffs and debuffs are very nice to have around.

If the community or the devs decide that they like things the way they are, that's fine. I've said my piece and will keep on playing. No harm, no foul for asking for what you want.

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Riight, no one is going to the Devs but yet I only see a specific wishlist aimed at Caging in this forums. Where is all the wishlists for all the stuff which actually needs to be addressed, their clumped into one big thread. Like I said previously in a post- You all have had no problem banning powersets, pool powers, and enforcing some ridiculous rules in your ladder. Why change your MO now and just ban caging or limit it to one cager per a match. It can't be cause Im the one suggesting this course of action or is it.

@Panny Nanny - Leader
@Mykonos - Leader
@Ed-Wreck - Leader
@Ed-Wrecked - Leader
@W-D
@WD2
@ir0x0r
@r0x
@Not Putzing - Leader
@Still Not Putzing - Leader
@Goldie1
@Goldie2
@Veronica Venom
@Mickey Slo2
@Cuch
@MF Fire Wire
@Staticus
@Payne Bringer
@Inspector 6
@Inspector 7
@Craggs
@Wastelands
@NRGFX
@Cyco Aura
@helly
@-helly
@helly-
@-Ajax
@El Ajax
@mac daddy b
@mac b
@macnificent b
@Frost
@Labrynth
@Elite
@FooManChu
@hans
@-hans
@Hi-Fi

look at how many multiple accounts from your own roster Putz. Nuff said. Quick look says their is at least 13 people with double, Helly has 3, Ajax who knows how many hes got in there.

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There are over 450 unique accounts involved in either or both of the SG and VG ladders on test. Some of those are people with two or three accounts, but it's not 50 people.

Similarly, 220ish people are signed up for the Test PvP League. A good percentage of them aren't on ladder teams. It effects those players as well.


Not saying these aren't tiny numbers still (they are), but there are way more than 50 people involved in test PvP these days.

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Really! How many of these are running 4 cager teams and perma caging people. Where are these 450 unique accounts and their voices and sry I dont count Not Putzing and Still Not Putzing as two seperate accounts. A large portion of test pvpers have 2 or alot more than two. So take that 450 and Id cut it in half, then you can cut it down some more by taking those who play sonics and those who are the targets of cage most of the time. I'd say you get 50 people who are actually affected, and I doubt theirs been 30 people in this thread. Out of those 30, a large portion are saying number 5 please. Go back to the drawing board and try again please.

Take my solution to the problem, get the INH togethor and vote to ban sonics or limit them. Then cry about something else. We need more wingsets!

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I still havent seen the following question answered. Why should people who use the power on live for whatever reason have to worry about cage changes/suppression when theirs at tops 3-4 groups who pvp on test who are so called "abusing it". Why have the Devs spend time to change a power to compensate for the playstyle of a group of under 50 players?

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You're starting to sound like the PvEers who say "Why should the Devs spend any time on PvP when only 1-2% of the populations even participates in it".

Let's just scrap the whole damn thing and go back to farming Dreck and running Shard TFs since nobody really PvPs anyway, right?

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Its the truth though Goldie, what was the last real addition to pvp, lol the Cage map. So now you want Dev attention for a power which affects a miniscule part of pvpers, when pvpers are already a small percentage of paying customers. Its not like we are talking about arena map selection which is nothing but a positive additon, your talking about altering a power which would affect the survivability of a larger number of pvpers. The "bug" portion of it has already been fixed, be thankful for that. The Dev's trying to add cage suppression or diminishing returns probably would set Issue 12 back 2 months.

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Ive seen multiple sonics in matches when cage was 30 seconds long, so don't see your point there. Like I said earlier why should a power be changed when it is only being complained about by a small group of high end arena test SGs? It's not abused in zones, its not abused in small team arena pvp because there are counters namely (slows and to hit debuffs), I haven't seen it abused in 8 vs 8 arena pvp matches on live either.

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To be blunt you're not in the right matches if you haven't seen it on live. One reason why the balance team should _always_ pay attention to high end PvP'ers is that they are the most likely to discover problems that can (and often have) drift down into the rest of the game. Another, and this one really bugs me about your post, is that even if we assume your description accurately represented how caging works in 99% of PvP then I'd still want this looked at because most of the suggestions would have zero negative impact. If your PvP experience doesn't include chain caging then almost none of these changes would impact you in the slightest.

One thing that really bothers me is when people, who claim not to be affected by a problem, bring up the waste of time argument when the solutions wouldn't negatively impact them. Are my problems not worth a developer's attention?

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Just put on your tinfoil hats, gather around the campfire and ban it from your ladder. Let the Devs worry about adding more wing sets in the game and not nerfing a power to fit the needs of a few whiney pvp SGs.

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Its late so let me be blunt, go [censored] yourself.

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Their most be a ton of 8 vs 8 Leagues besides the Infinity one going on then on live Im just not apart off. Ive played on my sonic in all the league matches Ive been apart of. Not once did anyone come close to being perma caged on my team or the oppositions, and the last match I was in, my main cage target still was tied for lead with four kills I believe for his team, the reason being for one Im just as busy debuffing and buffing my teammates, two my sonics isnt IOed for recharge and I try to wait for aim to come back up. Sure if I wanted to I could just follow him and keep him out of the match as long as possible, except my contribution to my team would be minimal and probably not worth having me on.

Here's a gameplay negative impact- I'll use a quick example. Ex- A sonic is trying to get a nuke in WB, hes attacked by em/invun brute, he's not interested in dying and losing his codes, so he cages the brute, now instead of being able to ward off brute with cages when he attacks, suppression kicks in and hes dead after an ET and TF. Theirs a negative impact you just reduced the surviviability of these powersets. Thats just one of the many examples, which can come up on live pvp. Would it affect me personally, no cause lol at zones but it would affect more people than the 10-15 whiners in this thread.

Outside the game impact- The problem maybe affects a group of 50 high end pvpers, out of those 50 I'd say half say leave the power as is from Ajax to W-D to Omega. So you all can't even come to majority decision amongst yourselves. Basically a problem affecting such few shouldn't even be looked at by the Devs, its the reason why costume pieces/power customization/ and crappy sets like Dual Blades come out------------ cause the majority of the paying customers want those above mentioned things. Your in the same group as the Eskimos or Native Americans, you don't hear any presidential hopeful promising anything for either do you. Its the way the world works, deal with it.

Finally, your attempt at being blunt lacks the desired punch I look for, try harder next time, give you A for effort but C minus for execution.

I still havent seen the following question answered. Why should people who use the power on live for whatever reason have to worry about cage changes/suppression when theirs at tops 3-4 groups who pvp on test who are so called "abusing it". Why have the Devs spend time to change a power to compensate for the playstyle of a group of under 50 players?

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I don't think there are even 7 sonics on Guardian. In 10 months, I've never teamed with one.

There is nothing wrong with sonic cage. Is it fun to be repeatedly ASd by waves of Stalkers? I like being able to cage a vill when I need to. It doesn't last as long as it takes to die, hosp, heal, and rejoin the battle.

There are always going to be situations in PvP that are not as fun as we would like. When it stops being fun, go to another zone or server. Thats why we have choices.

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The discussion is centering more around arena 8v8s than zone pvp. I don't think anyone really cares about sonics in zones, although I do know of one evil [censored] on Victory who will perma cage you until you give up and leave the zone. You know who you are *cough*W-Des*cough* .

When it was a single cager with a 30 sec cage taking one guy out of a match, yeah, it sucked, but it wasn't that big a deal. But now that we're seeing 2-4 sonics + grav cages on a single team, is nobody else seeing that it might start getting out of hand in the near future?

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Ive seen multiple sonics in matches when cage was 30 seconds long, so don't see your point there. Like I said earlier why should a power be changed when it is only being complained about by a small group of high end arena test SGs? It's not abused in zones, its not abused in small team arena pvp because there are counters namely (slows and to hit debuffs), I haven't seen it abused in 8 vs 8 arena pvp matches on live either.

Just put on your tinfoil hats, gather around the campfire and ban it from your ladder. Let the Devs worry about adding more wing sets in the game and not nerfing a power to fit the needs of a few whiney pvp SGs.

For all those who support cage, as leave as is, come by this thread and post for some good fun . Fugly chicks, washed up WoW players, and whiney blasters need not apply but can come by for cake. Suggestion against bad Suggestions

It figures, I take a little break away from the boards & game to play some COD 4 and come back to this joke of a thread. How come I never see a wish list about Blaster 30% unresisted damage or defender unresisted debuffs- maybe because all your groups rely on them, or how about any Rad/Slow wish lists? Never see any slow suppression suggestions or call for rad nerfing, hmmm take a look at what has entered Terp's tournament so far, wonder whats entered?

Next question, what percentage of overall pvp occurs on test between two sg groups? Doubt its fairly high, yet changes should be made to a power for problem which primarily applies to just test pvp. Sorry I dont hear too many cries of people being perma caged in zones or in arena matches on live, I dont know too many sonic players who IO out their sonics with LOTG and whatever else they can get their hands on, in order to keep someone perma caged, (Maybe Ajax and Omega might, but if they dont, I can't think of others who would bother, if they did they are the extreme not the norm).

Next, caging has already been nerfed, you can call it a bug being fixed. I would be hesistant to buy that reasoning, When triple containment was taken away from trollers, the Dev
s said they never intended for trollers to have it. Yet thats BS as triple containment was given when the multiple pet nerf occured. So its been reduced, either by bug or nerf, if anything should be addressed is, why don't they take intangiblity enhancements? Why didn't mesmerize take recharge enhancements, their was no reason for it not too and now mesmerize finally does, so why isn't an intangible power able to be slotted up .

If a 15 second cage takes you out of the game as a blaster, I got some bad news for you, your just not that good. If you watched organized pvp for some time going over a year from now. You probably witnessed players like Sing, Blazing Blue, Aura, and others lead their team in kills and to Victory while being perma caged by a 30 second cage. Players like those would still find a way to dominate. Don't believe me, ask some of the others who witnessed it like Craggs,Myk, Ajax, Hoj, Inc- a.k.a Krusty the Clown.


Im a problem solver though. So heres the solution the Intergalactic nerd herd has shown it has no problems banning powersets. So get a few of the INH leaders, I recommend Alarys, maybe dust Psypunk off the shelf for this, and Putz you can all collaborate on a post banning caging in the Ladder. You can call on the rest of the Intergalactic virgins to a summit *tinfoil hats must be worn in show of solidarity* to officially ban sonics. This would be great for several reasons. One it would allow you all to start whining and complaining about something else. Two it would save me the time of posting on this drivel of a topic.

Finally the Devs wouldn't have to waste time & money from my monthly subscription fee trying to nerf a power through cage suppression or diminishing returns- which impacts the very few. They can use that time trying to come out with powersets which dont suck in pvp like Dual Blades or the joke which Will power looks like its becoming.

Everyone goes home happy.

Happy Thanksgiving to all from Felonious the Problem Solver.

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@Panny Nanny - Leader
@Mykonos - Leader
@Ed-Wreck - Leader
@Ed-Wrecked - Leader
@W-D
@WD2
@ir0x0r
@r0x
@Not Putzing - Leader
@Still Not Putzing - Leader
@Goldie1
@Goldie2
@Veronica Venom
@Mickey Slo2
@Cuch
@MF Fire Wire
@Staticus
@Payne Bringer
@Inspector 6
@Inspector 7
@Craggs
@Wastelands
@NRGFX
@Cyco Aura
@helly
@-helly
@helly-
@-Ajax
@El Ajax
@mac daddy b
@mac b
@macnificent b
@Frost
@Labrynth (Eligible 11/4)

Removed h0j's accounts, but with lot of <3 and gl/hf-ness and no hard feelings.

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Awww, how come I didn't get removed with a lot of blah blah and blah blah. /e wrists

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video games are serious bizness son!

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cya later tool

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Imitation is the highest form of flattery, so do trow more insults-just try to be more entertaining about it.

by the way my global was @Felonious2, plz correct it, before the PVPEC tribal council makes you forfeit matches I was in.

video games are serious bizness son!

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so....you guys make a PvP sg and you all turn into complete [censored]? I'm glad I changed servers

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My mere prescence turns people into complete [censored], you should know this. Don't fret though, we sent a "We're sorry VR took a Dump in your cereal card" to your new server, complete with a fuzzy wuzzy Iroxxor plushie with tissues in your hand.

2 Questions about the system? One I know you stated a person can put more than one toon into the ladder system, so does that mean each toon put in will have its own ranking (Ex My mind.sonic could be number 5 while my gimped kat/sr would be slotted at 675) or will the ranking be player based (My mind/rad,mind/sonic,kat/sr are kept under one ranking and when Im challenged I play what I choose, while when I challenge someone I say what Im bringing and they pick what they will play from their toons.

I think I saw on the website ties dont affect the rankings, but in the recent duels their have been a number of 0-0 ties after ten minutes. Is their a rule like you holding in your tourney that if theirs a tie (maybe if its just a 0-0 tie) then the next match become last man standing to decide a winner.

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Comment on the thread in general:
Watch the language and the personal attack folks.

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I wonder who thats aimed at . *cough* Punk *cough*

I am right about so many things, now is that all you have Psy? Cause your forum foo is weak.

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Vengeance stacking breaks the game. It sends numbers through the roof. It causes the balance of the game to go completely out of whack. Stacking Vengeance is HORRIBLE for organized PvP as it creates matches that are neither fun to watch or participate in.

One team spends months and months practicing, only to see themselves get beat 80-9 by a team equally talented, just they happened to stack 4 Vengeances. Quite honestly, this is the worst exploit in the game right now and I pray the developers get on this right away.

Right now, wins in the Arena = who got stacked Vengeance off...has very little to do with actually what the Arena was designed to measure.

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Really how come NDX, can come from behind to roll another team after they use stacked Vengeance on them at the beginning. How come Ive seen I believe Freaks vs HVND third match gather for a vengance, HVND get off a nuke and turn the tide in their favor taking match three. Ive seen matches where both teams play the Vengance game and one team still wins big, just cause JAL cant overcome it, dont put other groups on their level. Ive also seen aim plus cage hit through multiple Vengeances, Ive seen people get spiked hard with multiple Vengeance going. Also 4 stacked Vengeance off isnt the easiest thing to do when in the high-end pvp game, most people are in different directions, so your going overboard there two maybe three tops and that might only hit one or two people. JAL was losing big before Vengeance and they will probably be losing big after it gets changed, sry to be brutally honest sometimes you need to crack a few eggs to make an omelette though and saying Vengeance is the root of all PvP woes is just funny.

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Hey dick head,

We beat Lion's Den before this Vengeance stacking was known about. So, go stick it. Number two, your logic is utterly flawed, keep working on that high school diploma or G.E.D. because you're not very intelligent.

Stacking Vengeance is easy...if you don't think so, then you're not very good at PvP - which to be honest, you AREN'T very good at PvP, so that explains it. You want the exploit because that is how you are successful...now stop embarassing yourself because your posts are pretty pathetic and indicative of someone who is slow or has a learning disability.

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You havent answered any of my questions? All you have done is bring yourself down to schoolyard mentality and insult those with a learning disability everywhere by comparing them to me. You barely beat LD when they had scrappers and no kins, face it your no more than someone who holds Rift's coat tails over in WoW. Half your sg left before a big match and your PvP ladder was a complete failure. I come at you with facts you come at me with anger and bias. So Plz as Ed Wreck would say CRY.SOME.MORE! Oh and its Mr. Dick Head to you

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Vengeance stacking breaks the game. It sends numbers through the roof. It causes the balance of the game to go completely out of whack. Stacking Vengeance is HORRIBLE for organized PvP as it creates matches that are neither fun to watch or participate in.

One team spends months and months practicing, only to see themselves get beat 80-9 by a team equally talented, just they happened to stack 4 Vengeances. Quite honestly, this is the worst exploit in the game right now and I pray the developers get on this right away.

Right now, wins in the Arena = who got stacked Vengeance off...has very little to do with actually what the Arena was designed to measure.

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Really how come NDX, can come from behind to roll another team after they use stacked Vengeance on them at the beginning. How come Ive seen I believe Freaks vs HVND third match gather for a vengance, HVND get off a nuke and turn the tide in their favor taking match three. Ive seen matches where both teams play the Vengance game and one team still wins big, just cause JAL cant overcome it, dont put other groups on their level. Ive also seen aim plus cage hit through multiple Vengeances, Ive seen people get spiked hard with multiple Vengeance going. Also 4 stacked Vengeance off isnt the easiest thing to do when in the high-end pvp game, most people are in different directions, so your going overboard there two maybe three tops and that might only hit one or two people. JAL was losing big before Vengeance and they will probably be losing big after it gets changed, sry to be brutally honest sometimes you need to crack a few eggs to make an omelette though and saying Vengeance is the root of all PvP woes is just funny.

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As pretty much everyone knows, despite my best efforts to prevent this power from stacking from multiple users, it can still be stacked.

At some point in the future, I *will* get code support to eliminate the problem. In the meantime, if people are abusing this loophole (it's an exploit but not an "Exploit" -- GM's and petitions won't do anything about it at this time) I suggest that you blacklist their team and simply do not engage them in PvP.

For the PvE folks reading this, no, Vengeance is not meant to stack in PvE, either and the change, when it happens, will apply in those encounters as well.

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I realize its an "exploit" now but the fact that getting in stacked, particularly in large scale pvp matches, I don't think hurts the game. I remember when I first started joined LD you couldnt pay someone to stay dead, as they would always hit the respawn button forgetting to stay dead for me to get vengance off, being able to stay dead/gather/and time a buff to me takes practice/cooperation/ and maybe a bit of luck. Its on par with a good spike or a great rush and nuke of the opposing team. Thats my opinion anyways, not like the change will affect my 1 vs 1 action. Though the pre-vengance stacking before a match is quite wrong, even if you fix the stacking, one vengance pre-match is just as wrong.

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I think that's an excellent point; even without stacking, starting a match with even one vengeance without a teammate death is an unfair advantage.

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Thx, that excellent point resulted from being the first to post after Castle, They say being the first to post after a Dev cause your next 5 posts to be filled with wisdom. My first point -- was Vengance stacking wasnt so much the problem as getting it from the getgo while not registering a death on the score board. My second point was to direct CZ to play the lotto, he could become a rich man simply for it being his birthday and his post going in between two of mine, thats like hitting the cycle in baseball but actually cool, lol baseball.

The point of this post is to inform all those who read that staring direcly at a solar eclipse can cause permanent damage to the retina of the eye, so dont do it, k , 2 more posts of wisdom left to write .

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Positron approves this thread.

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Happy Birthday CZ, your post got sandwiched between two of mine, truly a lucky day for you, go play the lotto!