FelicityBane

[ QUOTE ]
Sure there are others out there besides badgers but they dont really both more pvpers as much as badgers.

For example I kill a badger I get an ear full about how they're only there for badges and blah blah so I keep killing them then get petitioned.

Where when I kill a PvEr, a majority of them just click respawn and are on their way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had a few of these instances. Once or twice if I'm heading into a PVP zone for badges I'll declare it so in broadcast, saying something along the lines of "don't mind me -- just here for the badges." Sometimes spoilsports will still come after me for the easy reputation points, but for the most part it works.

I do have to ask, and please don't take it like I'm flaming you, but if someone says they're just there for badges.. why can't you leave them alone? It's a courtesy thing, and I understand resenting someone who goes about it rudely, but I can't imagine they all do.

[ QUOTE ]
Rumour has it that there is! Published by THQ, developed by Vigil Games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet! Thanks. Given the nature of the tabletop version I'm sure it will be heavily PVP, but I'm kinda hoping for some individual story content too. May be a crazy wish, but that's how D&D got started...

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah WAR looks damn good also!

For the first time in years I feel like getting into two games from the ground up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Psh. Why? It's such a WoW ripoff.

Kidding!

I'm not so hot on fantasy.. so does anyone know if there's any Warhammer 40k games in the works?

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, they will. It's about controlling the conversation. If the conversation becomes an argument about Jack defending his own conduct, then no one is talking about the problem that most people can easily acknowledge exists.

It's this tactic.

And it's a great way to win an argument without ever addressing the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, okay. Well, if they'd all just wear buttons that say "I debate like a NeoCon," I would know to avoid them in the future.

(Commence flaming in 5.. 4... 3...)

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, this is what I don't understand. Why do we have to see the cultivation of one side as a slap in the face of the other? Why are we phrasing these questions in an adversarial way at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Those who say I hate pvp, it sucks are just as blind to me as those who say, PVP is always better than pve. Neither statement holds a grain of truth in my eyes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's what I'm talking about. Sweeping statements of personal-preference-as-objective-fact are silly and stupid, no matter who's saying them. They're also needlessly adversarial. Why is anyone even talking in that way?

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not disputing that PvP is popular. Some people like it, and that's great. I'd also dare say that some like PvE as well. I'm not suggesting that a game shouldn't feature PvP. I'm protesting the OPs opinion that PvP shouldn't be optional if a game wants to be successful. I disagree strongly with the notion that PvE players are somehow more fickle than PvP players. Why is it so wrong to have both? Why alienate half the potential playerbase?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is what I don't understand. Why do we have to see the cultivation of one side as a slap in the face of the other? Why are we phrasing these questions in an adversarial way at all?

[ QUOTE ]
Define "anguish."

Under your definition, attorney's, bill collectors, police officers and my ex-boyfriend all fit that description.

It's subjective. Which is why it's not a sound argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm having a really, really hard time believing nobody knows what Jack's talking about. It's true that it's hard to define what level of [blank]holery is unacceptable without descending into suffocating legalese, and I agree that Jack has used some (shall we say) sweeping generalizations in his rhetoric, but is everyone really going to act like they don't know what kind of conduct he's talking about?

Really?

[ QUOTE ]
You could have that same sort of backdrop in PvE too...

Take the Skulls and the Hellions for example... If people over a given time frame take out more Skulls than Hellions via street sweeps, missions, etc then the Hellions would start taking over the town until they were forced back down. Heck, it might even be set such that it would cause zone events to happen (arson, fire bombing, etc).

Just saying, you can have dynamic PvE if you are willing to massage the system a little.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm all for content like this, though I'm hesitant to make any calls on how easy it would be. The simple truth is that no one -- repeat, no one -- who is not personally involved with the coding of this game can say how easy to accomplish something is or isn't. Educated guesses are possible, but the emphasis there is on the "guesses" part.

[ QUOTE ]
2. Any designer that uses an auction house as representative example of pvp has some serious misunderstandings of the pvp experience and its appeal to players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you just didn't grasp what he was saying, and have ignored subsequent explanations and examples by Castle and players. Whichever, though.

[ QUOTE ]
3. pvp play is inarguably more engaging, visceral, and immediate than pve play -- which doesn't mean pve isnt fun. grinding through a "narrative" can be entertaining, but honestly id really rather just watch the movie.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, yeah, that's entirely subjective, so saying it's "inarguably" more engaging etc is a crock. Several people in the thread have already said that isn't the case, which disproves your statement (the "inarguably" part) right out of hand. But good try.

It's real simple. Lots of people like PVP exclusively. Lots of people like PVE exclusively. There's no good reason to completely exclude one to favor the other. COX survived for a year and a half with no PVP whatsoever and was so successful it could support, you know, the launch of an entirely new branch of gameplay that doubled the size of the game.

So please, please... stop trying to convince anyone that one side is "better" than the other. Different strokes for different folks.

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, many of us are still here.

Also, as the Writer of this said, those of a mindset tend to congegrate with those of like mind... the people I play closest with, obviously, are of like mind... not fond of or of the opinion that we would rather log off and go scrub the kitchen floor on our hands and knees with Pine Sol and a scrub brush than PvP. We're also not that thrilled with the idea of I9 (save for the QOL stuff like new emotes and with hope a base kick fix) and the Statesman TF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hear hear.

I tried several other MMOs (Dating back to Meridian 59, up through WoW) after they were released, and never lasted more than a few weeks in each -- they all seemed to personify the absolute worst in the online experience without any of the high points that the best video games can bring. I stuck with CoX because it seemed to be the first (and apparently the last) MMO that did not require mild-grade Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder to enjoy. I could log in, play a lot, and get full enjoyment by catching up only a little. CoX provides the rare experience where you get more enjoyment the more you put into it, but you are by no means REQUIRED to approach gameplay with a PhD Thesis-like obsession to get even the slimmest measure of "fun" out of it.

I was really, really glad CoH didn't have PVP or auction houses or "loot" when I first joined -- keeping those MMO features out limited content in some ways, but also quite frankly kept out a lot of the worst kinds of behaviors I tend to associate with MMOs. I was wary when I heard the PVP was coming, and relieved to see that they left PVP to particular zones with their own storylines and rules for operation. This felt like a particularly clever way to add in PVP content without dramatically impacting the style of play set in the previous 18 months of release.

But no. I don't want the game to skew PVP. I don't want the "option" of villains going into Paragon or vice versa. (In fact, I'd like more non-combatant crossover zones... Striga seems to make sense, being lawless and all. Wouldn't that be fun? Joint TFs in Striga?) I hate the use of the term "slippery slope," but that is exactly what that would be. Give an inch, a year later you have to give a mile. And suddenly the game doesn't resemble itself anymore, the game I somehow saw fit to give money to every month for THREE YEARS in its current incarnation.

But then I don't really care about competing, or about having the best build, or having .5% more damage dealt each attack than the other guy. I don't care about getting the best deal on loot. I don't care about scoring PVP or PVE kills with the least amount of effort and risk.

I care about stuff like good and interesting storylines. I care about new emotes and costume pieces. I care about new zones with thematic temporary powers and distinct "feels" that make me want to visit them even when I'm way past the point of scoring xp there. I like grouping with my friends and having the occasional side of RP. I like content. There are approximately seven zillion games I can go to if I want to gank other people all day. But I didn't go to those games. I came here. And I stayed.

And, at least according to my global list, there's a lot of other people like me...

[ QUOTE ]
Take care everyone, and happy trails!

Shane

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I almost never post, but this is worth it...

Shane, I've been a fan of your stuff since Deadlands. When I heard you were hired on to do story stuff for CoV I flipped -- and quietly thank the Cryptic gods every time I run across a particularly well-developed piece of backstory that I or friends comment on. You made your mark, and the whole CoX experience is worlds better for it.

And good luck to you.