Evil_Legacy

Yes true but what does the company get out of it if they cant sell the game? That is just giving away a product for free when as it stand right now, they can shutdown a game and collect a tax return, they can save it to sell at a later date (although may not be wise to do), or maybe they just want to keep it for nostalgia purposes.

Yes players put a lot of time and effort into making COX their home and stuff but people tend to realize the company also put alot of time, money, effort into the game either and as players are not easily ready to give it up, why should they be forced to either sell or give it away for free all that hard work?

But they stayed? For years for some of them. If they complained and still continue to give money what was the incentives for them (NCSoft) to even take it serious?
Why no boycotts? Why no smear campaigns like now? Why no swearing off NCSoft games forever like now? Why no dogging NCSoft on ever media out there like now? Why no "Organized" effort and calling "celebrities" and media and requesting interviews with NCSoft until now? Why wasnt worth a serious effort until now?

Assuming that the "effort" is having as much of an effect as it is having now, why not put that "effort" to work the first two times? Why only when COX is on the chopping block?

Ok all of a sudden you know everything about me. Ok that is your opinion but I can clearly say that you are wrong because I know myself and I know what I know. Not sure where you get off all of a sudden telling me what I know and dont know, when you are not even me, and you dont even know me. You view it as you think that I dont have any knowledge on that subject but you cannot say in a definitive manner that you know. Do I go around telling you what you know and dont know? No I would appreciate if you dont do it to me like you been knowing me your entire life. You dont know me like that, ok?



OK. So again.

What is in it for the company to keep a game running, even if it's hurting their profits, or want to use the resources elsewhere or want to cut back?

From what I get this law would only benefit the consumer which would make the monthly subscription basically mean life time access to the game even if it's hurts the company that made the game in the first place. So why would companies want to make games under those conditions?

What is quite a while? For some, 8 years is more than quite a while for other it is not, given it is said that the overall life span of most MMOs, hundreds that are out there lifecycle is a mere 2-4 years. If Everquest was to shutdown tomorrow would it justify the shutdown of this game for you?


But a few points about everquest; It reached 225,000 players not long after opening, and reached about 425,000 by 2003, which then is said to peaked more than 3000 players per server with nearly 400 servers, which equates to a little more than 1 million players, which COX barely broke 15% at peak. That's a lot of money. Now neither game have anywhere near that population. Yet, COX is heading to the pasture and Everquest seems to be able to live on, even with a part two at the same time. Why did NCSOft decide that COX wasnt worth keeping anymore but Sony keeps Everquest? Who knows. Maybe Sony can afford that risk more than NCSoft. Why have some housing projects in Chicago and Atlanta been razed to the ground, actual homes of people, while in other cities, homes that are older, and in even worse condition gets to stay? Why do some people collect every penny while other throw pennies away? Why didnt this game have Everquest's population size? Who knows and the way the population is said to be currently at Everquest, it may not be around much longer either but they have a sequel to go over to and here there dont seem to be one.

Maybe it's that SOny isnt planning on any realignment or maybe their realignment is different process than NCSOft. Or maybe Sony is so big that if Everquest is losing money they dont notice. Or maybe that havea different threshold/tolerance/stockholders/view/CEO than Sony just as people have different ways of looking at things.

That question of why Everquest gets to live and COX must die is the million dollar question.

Yea shouldnt just avoid countries with Aparteid (the shutdown) but whats going on here is not that aparteid is a problem but the real question is why wasnt it an issue when it was happening to other games in other parts(other ncsoft games that have been shutdown) of ther country(NCSoft) but is a big problem when it happens in this part of the country(COX)?

Why wasnt the issue addressed then? Or why no speak out against it then like now? Why was apathy appropriate then but not now?

This what makes it seem lees so than people caring about NCSoft done and more so it's only a problem because how dare them shutdown the game they are currently playing.

If aparteid was THAT much of a big deal and so wrong then it should have been addressed a long time ago instead of not giving a crap as long and treated as if it was the proper thing to do but when it happens here it's the most villainous thing that could ever happen to a person.

but a computer isnt a ton of money. Relatively small amount especuially compared to the amount of money it takes to buy a house.


makes sense.

How many years were you, or most people for that matter, were actually expecting to have the ability to stay?

You think that CO will end up being stand alone? It seems to be already set up for it with the solo centric gameplay and content, more so than COX. Not to mentioned it was once developed with game console in mind. I wonder if that is what they are planning on doing after CO shutters the doors?

But with that question there is interesting. You think companies at least should give a warnign if things are nothing going well as they like before announcing closure that way players can guage whether their "hard work" (always thought a point of a game was for fun not work) and love can be measured and they know whether or not it's enough or not and a chance to at least try to fix it. With this much zeal over the closing think there would be this much zeal into either spending more, or getting more to join if a warning was given?

Yeah the government actually does that house thing from time to time, but not exactly as described though. Sometimes it's to build something else or build a park or as in at least one town in the states, I think Virginia, the area is unstable.
*Using the analogy provided* But I dont think COX and the files will exist for much time after Nov. 30th. and wont exist, like being bulldozed. Aug 31st was like getting the letter in the mail thing saying they are taking the house, the refunds is liek the money the gov. gives you to move, and Nov. 30th is the deadline when they are coming in to claim it.

1, you have no idea what I have knowledge in or dont have knowledge in. Do you even know me? I dont recall ever meeting you. Sure, it's profitable now but does that mean it will be that way forever? Maybe maybe not, but given that the profits are not at the level it was when it started off, and front the graphs provided here in this forum, it seemed to have been slipping aka bring in less profits.

2, I used that analogy because I've seen people compare this death of a game being compared to someone killing a family member, or death, and or death of a family pet. And yea my point in pointing it out, was that it was not that serious. As you have seem to confirm but didnt call it stupid when others used that anology for the closing up. So it seems it wasnt the content of that statement that made it stupid but more so of who was saying it.

3, Then explain Rangle's point then? I seemed to have missed it. And pelase hold the insults this time if you can.

Take note, did I call your view stupid? Did I call you stupid? But you already start with the personal attacks and so have Feycat.


I think I mentioned that many people will resort to personal attacks just for expressing a view and if for some reason there was no evidence prior, there sure is now.

You can get your point across just fine without resorting to personal attacks you know.

Ok that is how Minecraft is set up, not NCSoft. And that is their choice, keywords there, choices not forced by law. COX do not seem to be set up for that type of play. And do not seem that NCSoft is interested in setting up COX for that. Their choice. I never said it cant be done. Where did I say it cant be done? I just said that it's not a good idea to make it a forceful law. If companies choose to do it, that is fine. If not then that should be fine too.

If those games are doing it the way it "should be done" then why have you bothered giving a company that is "doing it wrong" any money or time at all when you had the choice to go to a company that was doing it what you considered "should be forced by law" way of doing it?

Also Mincraft is a totally different kind of game than WoW. It's more similar to Warcraft 3 or Warcraft 2 if anything. WoW is considered to be Blizzrd's first true MMORPG just like COX is considered a MMORPG. If WoW servers were to go down, can you play it as a single player?

Go to it!

True.

Just as easily you can pick up another game and play it.

Or maybe it's best only to stick to console games where the person is actually buying the game and even if it goes under, they still have the game?

Or only buy stuff to own from places that never ever killed a product in their entire history? If you can find one.

Never buy stuff that require updates to operate, see the console game?

Many choices out there but just about everyone here made a choice to put money into something that could end at anytime. Some of us knowingly, and seemingly some of us that didnt know. Was the process lack a bit on an indelicate touch? Probably, but so do some cases of death, since some like to compare to this end of game as their life ending too, I'll bite. Some people get ran over while others die peacefully in their sleep. Some peopel die before they are 18 while others die when they are 90. Some people never get to see the outside of the womb. Some people are brutally hacked to bits and placed in a shallow grave, while others get a million dollar funeral from loves ones.

Or maybe we are being the indelicate ones for wanting them to wait until they start losing money to shutdown, especially odd given how many people are upset at losing a few bucks on points.

just had a vision of that scene in the first final destination film where the girl gets smashed by the bus out of the blue.

That is how quick life can end. In any moment.

Then sounds like you people and the people that got "ripped off", have a very solid case and should go ahead and sue them and the case should be a slam dunk for ya'll and be over quickly. Why isnt that in the works? What is stopping ya? With evidence that solid, you shouldnt even need a lawyer to prove that fraud. Its been what about two months now nearly since the refund announcement and no one started a case? Is it hesitation because the case is not as solid as they try to put on like the was hording points for months instead of actually spending them knowing an online game can end at any moment? Or is it they are just heated right now but knwo in their hearts that it is not fraud?

Yes, like GM discontinuing Pontiac, you have the game disks dont you? You own that.

The rest was just rental. Just because you rent a car doesnt mean you own it regardless of how many miles you put on it or had it. And if the rental company just so happen decide that they can no longer or want that particular car in their fleet but some was still rented out, like when Pontiac was discontinued, they can (have) taken the car back when the term was up, or refunded the people the money and or put them in another car. That is their legal obligation but ultimately, the subscription fee is not ownership. And the company should not be forced to keep the car in fleet if they want to choose not to.

With magazines, can pay subscription and they send you magazine that you own, but if the magazine ends production, a magazine maker should not be forced to continue publication because a few want to continue reading each issue forever.

Players knew or should have knew that the subscription was not the purchase of actual property but merely rent to access data to play a game and nothing more. Not an investment where the player is suppose to expect returns or gains on what they put in for the rest of their lives. I think the only case here maybe is that NCSOft and other game creators do not make that part clear.

And i never said you had to hurt someone physically. But what actual hurt is in a company closing down a game? If it hurts that much and the feeling of the communit ycant continue without that particular media then maybe the focus need to be more on the players. Why not continue the community since it's that tightly knit, on another game or media or forum? If a lose of a game hurts that much where it can be compared to physical thing like losing a pension through actual fraud, or being murdered, then maybe it's that person that may need to go talk to someone. It's just a game. What would the wrong doing in this closing be classified as? Fraud? I think the procedures and exactly what was getting into was clearly laid out not to mention that just about anything that is rented, subscribed to, and pay for access web sites must be fraud too. I think at worse, this closing might be bad customer service and that varies by view and from what I hear, bad customer service is not illegal and probably wont be illegal anytime soon. Destruction of a community? If it's a community in reality, then it should be able to persist even if this game and the game after and the game after is gone. What would it be labeled as?

"If you get into bed with a snake knowing that others have perished doing the same thing, then do not be surprised when it bites you regardless of how nice you was to it."



Or how about building a new game, which is said to be in the plan and implement that idea and make sure that even in the year 2165 that game should still be up and running even if there is only one player left. If it's a good idea, maybe that Plan Z will be the shining pillar of how a game should be ran and pull every single customer from corporate ran games as they flock to the ideal ran game that will never end. No law is needed to do that. This is a chance to give the people a choice to choose between the old way, which is described by some here as on par with murder, pollution and fraud, or the ideal way in the way that is proposed by those tht think that law would be a good idea. If it is as good of an idea as people claimed, then when Plan Z is finished, then just about every other game on the market should be on the brink of shutting down due to lack of players.

hmm yea WoW did come after COX. Go figure. I always thought the numbers was low because it had to compete with WoW but in reality WoW had to compete with COX and won.

I dont think it's a bad idea if the company choose ot give away the property but do think it's not good idea to force a company to give up the property by law. Why would I make a product that if for some reason it dont do well, I have to give it away for free and let go all rights to it? Sounds like a system that can be easily be abused by the player base. Dont buy a game and wait until it goes free because by law they have to let it go for free. I dont see how that is a good idea at all, besides asa benefit for the players. How would it in anyway benefit a buisness with that law?

Was refering to the game industry.

But even in that realm, closing a game is like a company choosing to discontinue a product.
Closing a game causes no harm to anyone so what is the logic for making a law forcing them to keep it running? That law above is like forcing GM to continue to make the Pontiac forever. I dont believe that the closing of this game caused actual injury or danger to anyone. It's a trivial matter that shouldnt even be worth the time of the law process especially when there are more important issues that should be addressed that effects actual health and lives.

Very possible, but remember that updates cost money and I think there probably wont be another set of devs like the one here. While silence and no updates constantly being churned out, doesnt automatically means failure, but it doesnt automatically means success either. Some companies will downsize to the last dev before closing down a game while other companies can and will close down a game at the first dip below expected profits.

Although I heard some features are new, small by comparison of what we are used to, butstill update, like the Alerts I heard is a recent add. Not to mention, it is said they have a smaller player number, less devs, and thus probably got less budget not to mention they are still tryign to work out the bugs and other stuff.

I personally think that game have a good number of zones as is. Although, I wouldnt mind a couple of more. But not too many more. I think it's waste of resource to have a bunch of underused maps that look like they took a lot of time and resources to make like many maps on COX side of the house.

The powersets are already numerous andi n game I heard talks about them working on a new powerset but it is strange that no mention on the forum. So what I heard may be a rumor or people dont talk as much about things on the forum there. Then again given that the devs there are a bit more mum than the ones here, it's no surprise there isnt much talk about changes.

The way Paragon Studios did buisness and how close the devs were to the communityis probably a rare occurance in games of this size. The downside, is it might have given off a false sense of security.

I dont think CO will last another 5-6 years, but then again when COX was CO age, many people didnt think it would last 8 years total. And even COX had a slight end of game scare prior but was quickly bought by NCSoft. Some say that under Jack, this game would of died long ago. Me personally, I didnt see much problem with Jack but he didnt seem as open as the devs that followed.

Unfortunately I think many players here got used to the relatively rare dev-player relationship and most other MMO devs will seem stand-offish even though they are within normal range of dev-player relationship in most games. Even in large games like WoW which dont seem to be going anywhere do not come out with updates as often as COX, some of WoW updates are whacky as hell, like the panda stuff, and the devs dont seem to talk much to the players like they do here. Some would describe it as a "take a number and wait in line" feel to it. Which make sense given their massive population, yet they are still around.

Maybe in the future the dev-player relationship and the passion the devs seem to openly display will become the norm instead of the COX exception.

I dont think it's criminal. And I hope it never come to law. I do not think any corporation should be forced to do anything they dont wish to do with something they actually own and or created. That is like saying that you must give up your property to someone else if you dont plan on using it or want to replace it. Like, "No, you cant trade in that car. That guy over there like seeing your car drive by his house and he wants to drive it and since you dont want it, you must give it to them."

All that monthly fee was rent, not an investment, not owning, anything besides the disks and the stuff maybe on that disk that came in the box and downloaded on the computer that you can keep.