EvilRyu

One thing I will regret about this change is this. I will never get to see an all storm team in its full glory do some end game content against avs in the STF or ITF. I would love to see vids of this before the nerf hits.

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yay first one....

Now...whats the purpose of a "Super" Leader?
does it give anything special or allow something to be done that others cant?

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In the current system, no one can demote someone who is at their same level, and there is no self demotion.

Adding in a "sole" Superleader to the SG system allows for leadership disputes to be solved within the SG themselves, as there is now a level that can demote the current "leader" level. If the Superleader no longer wants to be Superleader, they just need to promote someone else to Superleader, and they will demote themselves in the process.

[/ QUOTE ]I dont know but to me the most logical thing would have just been to add self demotion, and promotion of offline members. That would have solved this problem as well as a few others. You guys really need to work on that.

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I'm sorry when you said sets became unplayable (something like that) I assumed you meant the sets as a whole... and since when was andrenalin boost, and enforce morale recharge increasing only powers? And did you like not read the dispari response where she/he said pretty much the same thing? Or is it that you are much better than claiming than you are proving?

[/ QUOTE ]Thats like saying speed boost and am are only recharge boosting powers, they arent but the recharge benefit is huge on some of those powers. Just not on enforce morale.

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Does alot of ally powers include SB and...... ummm.... ahhhhh.... ummm..... geez...... accelerate metabolism?

[/ QUOTE ] adrenaline boost, and enforce moral.
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Ummmm like.... cold domination and errrrrrrr.... ahhhhh.... ummmmmm....... geez.... aahhhhhh..... trick arrow? What debuffing sets rely on -recharge besides ice blast, melee, and armor? I feel that saying cold domination isn't completely true..... not that you care one damned bit....


[/ QUOTE ] lingering radition, shiver, snow storm. You need to quit acting like 1 or 2 powers are effected, its more than just that many.
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YEAH ITS NOT LIKE the 5th column, arachnoids, Arachnos (soldiers, widows, fortunatas, Tarantulas, the robots), banished parthenon, Cabal, Carnival of shadows, Circle of thorns, Coralax, Council, Crey, Devoured Earth, Freakshow, Knives of artemis, longbow, The lost, Malta, Outcasts, Paragon Police Department, Paragon protectors, Psychic Clockwork, Rikti, Soldiers of Ruluruu, Tsoo, Vahzilok, Vanguard, Winter hord, and Wyvern ALL UTILIZE -RECHARGES IN THEIR POWERS!

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah but you dont get your recharge slowed that much if at all. Of those you name I can only see the paragon police having some significant -recharge. Getting your recharge slowed is never to the point where you are just waiting excessively to attack. I have never noticed -recharge effecting any of my pets period.

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The nerf/buff ratio varies on who you're talking to, and what toons that person has, obviously. But to call this change a flat-out buff or flat-out debuff is flat-out wrong.


[/ QUOTE ] You might as well just say its a nerf, I cant think of one positive benefit on this change. Yes I have tested these changes with ninjas, animate stone and jack frost. Looking at what we lost is just huge. No pets can gain any recharge. Thats all the troller pets, dom pets, patron pets, GD, LS, VS, mastermind pets. This makes alot of ally powers not as useful and pretty much worthless for solo play. Add on top of the fact that now many debuffing sets and attacks wont be helping with survival because they cant slow enemy critters attack rates down. And what did we gain? Practically nothing, so what if our pets recharge cant be slowed, but honestly how often does that even happen enough to matter? Almost never. There are some folks who claim the bruiser pet is that much better, I would love to dispute that claim but I dont have thugs mastermind high enough to test for it, but I do know for the pets I tested they are the same on test as they are on live.

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Hopefully before it reaches that point, the devs will separate out the critter versions of Fire Imps and Jack Frost and make them debuffable.

[/ QUOTE ] This I doubt, because if they wont allow exemptions for the range only pets or pets with one attack, I dont think they are going to make a second set of pet powers just for this. Too much work for them. It is good that you bring up this point because I will ensure that no missions I create will have pets if I can help it because it wont be fair to the players.

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The reason they didn't make an exception for pets with one attack was not that it was too much work (making them affected actually required *more* work), it was because they didn't *want* them to not be affected.

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Exactly, the story now is that it was never intended for you to be able to buff a fire imp with AM, nor was it ever intended for you to buff stoney with speedboost.

"never intended", "oversight" these are becoming swear words in my house lol.

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I don't see how what you're saying is even relevant to what you're quoting.

We're talking about the devs' willingness to make an exception for certain powers, not what the changes were.

Ryu implies that they won't allow for an exception for pets with one attack (such as Lightning Storm) because it would be too much work, but the reason they don't want to make an exception for it is actually that they *want* it to be affected (and they actually had to do some work to make it affected in the first place).

Thus the fact that they are not making an exception for powers like Lightning Storm is not any reason to believe that they won't make a second set of pet powers "because it's too much work".

[/ QUOTE ]I think people are not understanding me. If say they made an exemption for say fire imps this would be different, we all know fire imps do not have this so called AI problem the other pets have. They could do it but its too much work. If its too much work for just one pet or a handfull of pets just think of how much work its going to be to change all the npcs with pet powers to now use this newer version of said pet. THats what I mean too much work. Its got nothing to do with whether they wanted a certain pet effected by recharge or not.

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This I doubt, because if they wont allow exemptions for the range only pets or pets with one attack, I dont think they are going to make a second set of pet powers just for this. Too much work for them.

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Not exemptions for the PLAYERS, exemptions for the CRITTERS. There are plenty of critter pets that will not be effected. The only ones that will be effected are those that the players have, and if the devs want critters to be uneffected by this, then all they really need to do is duplicate the few pets that are shared.

[/ QUOTE ]Like I said before, they wont do this,way too much work. Its more than a simple copy paste rename you know.

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Hopefully before it reaches that point, the devs will separate out the critter versions of Fire Imps and Jack Frost and make them debuffable.

[/ QUOTE ] This I doubt, because if they wont allow exemptions for the range only pets or pets with one attack, I dont think they are going to make a second set of pet powers just for this. Too much work for them. It is good that you bring up this point because I will ensure that no missions I create will have pets if I can help it because it wont be fair to the players.

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In any case, I think a very good case could be made for either reducing the endurance cost or adding mobility. But I'm not sure that the current tone of the discussion is likely to render the devs particularly receptive to making those types of changes.

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I agree that discussion of revisions to powers is unlikely to happen at this point. But on the extremely unlikely chance they are, I just wanted to chime and say that i would be 100% behind a reduction to LS's endurance cost.

However, I feel very strongly that making LS mobile is NOT the solution. Although I appreciate LS's damage potential, I more often rely on LS as a positioning tool to keep mobs trapped in a corner, to prevent them from coming through a doorway, or to keep them away from me or a teammate with its knockback. If LS became mobile the advantages of using LS for positioning are lost as one could not rely on LS to obey a "stay" command. I put that lightning storm there for a reason, I don't want it running all over the map.

Furthermore, Storm already has enough chaos inducing powers. I do not want another mobile knockbacker to make teams appreciate storm even more. I already have that in tornado.

[/ QUOTE ]Just make it only follow you when you move away a certain distance but dont have it chasing mobs like the way the vet pets used to.

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Yeah, but then some brown noser will just come in and say: Well what he meant was our powers not pets powers blah blah blah.

Its all sooooo stinky.

[/ QUOTE ]QFT, this happens way too much.

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And then there are the d00m criers who would go d00m at the drop of the hat..... and then there are the people who are completely and utterly incapable of realizing that there is another opinion besides their own and that it maybe with just a teensie weensie tiny bit of probabilty may be just as valid as their own opinion. Also I feel that it is pretty common that when people have no further logic behind their rational and are incapable of kindly and rationally arguing their point they will more often than not reduce to stereotyping and labeling the opposing group as something negative in hopes that their point will somehow become more valid.

Now I'm not gonna point fingers or say any names but if you look where I look you see what I see. Incidentally if you quote who I quote.... you will prob know what I'm talking about.

You think the changes suck; we get it. You think that the change destroys pets 4evah. I don't (with the exception of VS and GD.... which always needed a bit of help). I'm uncertain of how the changes in the long run will effect controllers and elec toons... but I feel safe in saying that if this change makes your MM's gimp and mediocre.... your probably doing it completely wrong. I think that */devices will be pretty much the same as it was before..... needing a few buffs here and there.

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Post Deleted by Moderator_08

[/ QUOTE ]Or you can just believe this was all a nemesis plot to sterilize kinetics and radiation so it can be ported to masterminds next issue without them having to change much. I got to thinking about the sets we do have with recharge. The only that has it for masterminds and its pain domination. The amount of it is very minor at best. You have to stack it like 5 times to get the full benefit of it and its still less than speed boost and AM. So why even include recharge in that clear mind power when no sane person is going to try to stack that 5 times on each teammate on a full team. If this change goes thru for pets and they buff the enforce morale's recharge benefit, its a safe bet that masterminds will be getting kinetics and/or rad very soon.

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Yeah, but then some brown noser will just come in and say: Well what he meant was our powers not pets powers blah blah blah.

Its all sooooo stinky.

[/ QUOTE ]QFT, this happens way too much.

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And then there are the d00m criers who would go d00m at the drop of the hat..... and then there are the people who are completely and utterly incapable of realizing that there is another opinion besides their own and that it maybe with just a teensie weensie tiny bit of probabilty may be just as valid as their own opinion. Also I feel that it is pretty common that when people have no further logic behind their rational and are incapable of kindly and rationally arguing their point they will more often than not reduce to stereotyping and labeling the opposing group as something negative in hopes that their point will somehow become more valid.

Now I'm not gonna point fingers or say any names but if you look where I look you see what I see. Incidentally if you quote who I quote.... you will prob know what I'm talking about.

You think the changes suck; we get it. You think that the change destroys pets 4evah. I don't (with the exception of VS and GD.... which always needed a bit of help). I'm uncertain of how the changes in the long run will effect controllers and elec toons... but I feel safe in saying that if this change makes your MM's gimp and mediocre.... your probably doing it completely wrong. I think that */devices will be pretty much the same as it was before..... needing a few buffs here and there.

[/ QUOTE ]But then we have people who think the devs can do no wrong ever, despite the mountain of evidence on how this negatively effects so many powersets with and without pets. No where am I saying they killed pets forever. They just made alot of powersets lack luster and dont realize the balance implifications its going to have later on if its not rolled back. All its going to do is create more work for themselves later on when players gravitate towards other sets not effected by the change. Its either going to mean more work to buff stuff later on or more work to nerf the sets the players moved to because the other sets arent as viable as before.

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Yeah, but then some brown noser will just come in and say: Well what he meant was our powers not pets powers blah blah blah.

Its all sooooo stinky.

[/ QUOTE ]QFT, this happens way too much.

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Post Deleted by Moderator_08

[/ QUOTE ]Dude thats just nasty, I keep thinking of that scene from American Wedding where the guy picked up and ate that turd off the ground and had to pretend it was brownie.

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do what you gotta do, though I think it's a bit dramatic to delete characters over this.

THOUGH! I still wish that AoE Hold from Spec Ops would recharge faster.

[/ QUOTE ] Gotta make space for newer, more useful alts. Usually the only ones that get deleted are under level 20 unless its something I know will never get buff again. In those cases I delete higher levels.

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What gets me is that evidently most of the people who are really upset by this change have figured out a way to play that most players never even think of or can't afford and also allegedly are so smart in how they play that their pets rarely get slowed due to them having parsed every possible battle configuration. No doubt they feel that the game is being hopelessly dumbed down for the great unwashed masses and I can see their point. Then again they are so smart that they will undoubtedly figure out fun new ways to exploit bugs that the clueless Devs don't even realize exist so I don't know what they are worried about.

In any case they do not represent the vast majority of players but are rather a small and very vocal minority that nevertheless probably have the power to make the Devs pull their hair out in frustration with their apparent expectations of perfection or near perfection from a video game.

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What gets me is that evidently most of the people in disagreement with people upset about the change seem to think said people have been sat around laughing at the devs "exploiting" the game.

This change affects none of my characters, I am not a "pet" player and even my storm corr only uses Thunderstorm as a keep away KB power. However I find the proposed changes insulting, they nerf a great many players but not only that it gives a significant buff to pet using NPCs as -recharge powers are quite prevailent playerside, everything ice, freezing rain, web grenade, lingering rad even psi attacks. Thats not even the worst of it, what really pissed me off was Castle holding up really quite poor powers (in all but the very most extreme and unlikely of situations) of VS and Gun Drone as "needing" to have this change applied to them.

Others have mentioned this may now make the devs look at improving the powers as will have a significant variable removed from its performance but we have had NO suggestion from any devs that this will occur, given their hugely lacklustre response to clearly underperforming powers I dont see a player benefit change coming any time soon. War Mace sucked donkey ding dongs for a VERY long time before it was brought up to par.

This is just a change for changes sake and hurts the weakest of sets once again, fire/kins suffered the least from the controller epic blast nerfs and also from fire imps being nerfed (as imps really counted for very little of fire/kin damage) but a earth/FF troller and fire/energy dom really felt those changes as a kick in the jibblies. A fire/kin doesnt waste their time SBing a imp as its not efficient, a earth/kin does however, no one is claming they are OP and need a nerf are they? (and rockys AI problems has NOTHING to do +recharge being dialed into it, my earth/TA can testify to that)

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[/ QUOTE ]Castle was ok with me on all the previous changes but this change is where I had to disagree with him 100%. To me it wasnt worth making some of the buff sets partially useless, it wasnt worth making some of the debuff sets partially useless. The changes so far only really worked on 1 pet if at all. I dont have any way to test a bruiser but I tested ninjas, poo-man and jack. Still the same behavior as issue 13. Overall I think this change did more to harm are faith in the devs than it actually hurt the pets. We can no longer hold them to their word when they promise stuff on changes. It also makes you question whether they even play their own game because of the 3 pets specifically targeted didnt need any nerf to begin with. I could see if the nerf came with some form of compensation. Like fixing the bug allowed them to buff the sets later or do something else positive with the power but that simply isnt the case. What made this so hard for me is now I will have a really hard time deciding what sets to play because of how this change effects so many different powersets. So many toons that I play will either be deleted or retired until something changes. I would say about almost 1/4 of my alts.

I did some more testing. Animate stone is the same on test as he is on live. No change in game play. Basically throws one rock charges into melee and proceeds to hand out some whoop [censored]. Voltac Sentinal on the other hand is just utterly worthless as an attack. Basically the only reason I can see getting that power now is with doms just so you have an extra spot to slot the resistance pet proc for the recharge intensive pets.

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how are Ice Tankers nerfed? The only power I can think of that would be effected is Ice Patch..... do the aura powers count as pets?

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Its not the pet - its the slows. One side effect of this change is to make all player summoned pets (and by default any NPC summoned pets that are the same as the player pets) immune to recharge slows - this means that any set the relies on recharge slows for mitigation (ice armor, ice control, ice blast) is now going to be at a serious disadvantage in certain PvE material (mostly the MA I think, as folks seem to LOVE putting masterminds NPC's in MA missions) and in PvP against pet summoning PC's.

I actually think this is the biggest danger in this fix and the one that is going to come back and bite the dev's hard as its not obvious HOW much this will hurt those sets and there is probably no good way to get the data until we go live.

[/ QUOTE ]That lets me know the devs really didnt weigh the options good enough. Is making -recharge worthless on a bunch of existing content and a huge amount of forthcoming content really worth this fix? I seriously doubt that they are going to make npc pets immune to this fix as it is just double work for them. I just wonder how many ice toons or toons with -recharge in general is this change overall going to effect.

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Would you describe the other conditions and results in your test? For example:

Does their behavior on Test match their behavior on Live servers? If not, how is it different?


[/ QUOTE ] Behavior is the same. They still spam darts like on live.
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Which upgrades had you applied to the pets?


[/ QUOTE ] Both upgrades were applied. This toon was a lvl 50 mastermind.
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What enemies were you fighting?


[/ QUOTE ] I was doing a few MA missions with someone else's custom critters.
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What powers (if any) were you using, such as Tar Patch, immobilizes, holds, knockback powers...?


[/ QUOTE ] None from me directly but the oni did a few holds, believe me I tested this well and I know the pet AI very well for ninjas. I have several ninja masterminds. Basically I set them to aggressive stance and just ran into melee, or I did attack my target with the aggressive stance. Only when the ninjas were near the enemies (melee range) did the jounin actually whip out their swords and use them. Even then it still took a minute for both of them to actually do it. It was always one that would stand back and spam darts. If I had no genin in melee then the 2nd jounin would actually draw his sword.

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Were the pets or enemies on any unusual or uneven terrain?

[/ QUOTE ] No, just regular lab map missions, no stairs or inclines.
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Is there else that you think might be influencing the pets' behavior?


[/ QUOTE ] I can tell you right now what the problem is, there is a line of code in the AI that says that if too many things are near the target the AI tells it to stand back and spam range attacks. This is the same AI the regular critter use too. Basically if they got rid of that they would always melee. Alternatively they can just get rid of that worthless dart to begin with and we wouldnt even have this problem.

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...you must use some pretty stupid ninjas, because mine behave just fine.

Or maybe you're so dead-set against this change (like any change to the game...) that you're going to say that it fails no matter what.


[/ QUOTE ] Also, and to you Tricia, WHAT REASON DO I HAVE TO LIE ABOUT THE RESULTS? That helps no one at all. I will be honest I am against the changes but I wouldnt lie about the results, I could have just as easily not tested or posted anything if I really wanted sabotage this. And no my ninjas arent stupid. I have played ninjas probably more than most people so I know how they work, what makes them tick, what their quirks are and how to get around and deal with the AI issues. In the test I didnt use my binds and macros at first just to see if they can be played just normally without all that extra stuff. It flatout doesnt work, you need binds/macors or they will spam darts majority of the time.

I just tested these awful changes using the ninjas. It doesnt help them at all. They still get stuck in the loop and spam darts. The only way they dont is if I use the goto aggressive command or teleport foe or if the critter closes to melee. Otherwise they just spam darts.

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Why all the hub bub about this? Doesn't the lack of pet recharge buffing pretty much even out considering they can no longer be slowed? Given that and the fact that at least thugs have better AI now this is clearly a buff and not a nerf at all.

[/ QUOTE ]What about the psuedo pets like Lightning storm, Voltiac Sentinal ?

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It would make so much more sense if we simply were allowed to slot any power with any kind of enhancement.

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No, it actually wouldn't. Some powers would see no benefit from certain enhancements even if you could slot it. What do you imagine an end mod enhancements would do to improve Gun Drone? Oh wait...nothing!

Now I have jumped on the devs myself when they have done things that I don't agree with. Repeatedly.

I am honestly having trouble though, with the 'huge number' of people who suddenly find that -recharge was the only thing making their pets worth a damn.

If pets NEED that type of boost to be effective, then there is something wrong with the pet...period. If Gun Drone is 'useless' without a -recharge to its attack and LS is laughable without a -recharge to its attack and VS is also similarly useless, then these things need a buff. Especially since that -recharge buff was a side effect of something introduced to the game that wasn't initially meant to happen.

When someone comes and posts about how they are shelving all their storm toons because suddenly, they are broken and worthless, its silly.

[/ QUOTE ]I dont think thats the case. People have always known these powers suck, its just that with IOs it made them suck alot less, enough to the point where they could be added to a build. I still think in the case of the 3 powers hardest hit by this change, the datamining info on this is just wrong. I cant see the harm in the sneaking of the recharge on those powers. Yeah I know they are balanced around SOs but at the sametime by having players use this work around that saves the devs some actual coding time to actually rebalance the power. We all know those 3 powers wont be getting a buff anytime soon, probably never. I know for me that pretty much means I wont be playing any toons that have those 3 powers till this gets addressed in a proper way instead of this half [censored] fix.

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they can't leave things as they are.

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Hmm, can't they? I think that's really a matter of opinion.

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Yeah, but it's their opinion, so unfortunately it carries more weight than the rest of us. They are also getting paid for it and encouraging sales of it, which despite all the threats to quit over this, seems to make them lean towards continuing to fix issues they see as a problem.

Note that the devs HAVE NOT left this problem alone, they have been constantly breaking the RIP sets trying to get them to work around this known bug. They can't just "leave it as it is", they will continue to try to come up with a solution until they either do finally find one (which they seem to be saying they have) or they drop RIP sets from the game entirely.

Which do you prefer?

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Dropping RIP sets of course... One can work around not having them with other slotting options. I can't work around not being able to take advantage of some of my better secondary powers on those pets.

In this particular case, IOs have taken precedence over at least two power-sets (rad and kin, any others?) that's just not acceptable considering they're supposed to be optional content.

--
Mu

[/ QUOTE ]empathy and pain domination have recharge as well.

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Well if they had just came out and say hey guys these powers are bugged but underperforming. We will buff them at a later time. Sure people would be mad but thats a hell of alot easier to deal with than what we are getting now. I am fairly confident that once this goes live those sets wont see a real buff for many years to come. We all know how long it takes for changes around here. Look at defiance, look at war mace, look at ice melee, look at invulnerability, look at the patron powers.

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To be fair, the devs can't really tell if they're underpowered or not until they fix them. If some people are spamming massively recharge-boosted pseudopets while others are using no recharge boosts then the datamining will be all over the place... once the bug is fixed the devs can get a more accurate view of how well they perform when used as intended.

[/ QUOTE ]I disagree, all they have to do is log into their game and create a toon with said powerset and just play it in a mission. You dont need datamining to do that. Its call being in touch with the game. They seem to know how stuff is supposed to work but not how players actually use the powers themselves. Thats the problem. A little time loggin in with each powerset from time to time can at least make you more aware of whats wrong. I am not saying they got time to play every set but if they can read a thread on the forums thats says " Why is elec damage considered poor?" and one person in said thread says because VS sucks. Well a little light should go off and say hey maybe i need to test that and compare it to other sets to see if those complaints are legitimate.

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Again why does it even matter, its not like storm defenders are soloing the STF or something. I could see if that was the case but I seriously doubt a single storm defender is doing that right now. What so significant about these powers? Maybe I am just using them wrong or something I cant see how they can be leveraged to the point of soloing lvl 54 AVs. Just what exactly are the devs afraid that LS, VS, Gun Drone are going to do?

[/ QUOTE ]*blink*

So...if something can't solo the STF, it's perfectly fine and needs no adjustments? That's the only benchmark for power you think there should be?

*blinkblink*

...you've left me speechless.

[/ QUOTE ]Thats was just an extreme example and you know that. What I am trying to do is get an honest response from them. I want to know exactly what did they intend for those powers. What are those powers doing that so damaging to the game that they have to be gutted in this way.

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Yeah, You all discovered the nemesis plot. Seriously though I would sooner be able to accept what you just said for an answer before I will believe LS, VS and GD are overpowered pets.

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See, I don't think they said they were "overpowered" And I don't think they believe that. It's that they were operating erratically. And the way it was operating made it more powerful then it normally would be. In that sense it's "overpowered." Yes.

If they left them this way though, under the assumption that removing the bug would leave them underpowered. Wouldn't that be balancing them around a bug?

Wouldn't it be better to remove the bug and then balance proper later?

I believe that's the Dev's position.

[/ QUOTE ]Well if they had just came out and say hey guys these powers are bugged but underperforming. We will buff them at a later time. Sure people would be mad but thats a hell of alot easier to deal with than what we are getting now. I am fairly confident that once this goes live those sets wont see a real buff for many years to come. We all know how long it takes for changes around here. Look at defiance, look at war mace, look at ice melee, look at invulnerability, look at the patron powers.

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Actually in i7 pseudo-pets like LS were actually changed to inherent the casters' state. Now rech (ie hasten, speedboost) "may" not have been intended, but I find that very hard to believe that it wasn't known to be happening like claimed.

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Known? Yes. Statistically significant (as in, a noticeable blip in datamining), no. That came later.

[/ QUOTE ]What do you mean statistically significant? Its either you know its going to effect recharge or it isnt. You dont need datamining to know that. Just what exactly were you guys shooting for on this? Is it that you all didnt expect or want it be effected by IOs and +recharge powers but having it just effected by +recharge powers was ok? Are you saying the only way to fix it was to just to disallow all recharge instead of just saying it can just gain only the buffs on the caster? All the datamining did was just prove the powers were subpar and the main way people got past that was with all the extra slotting. To me it would make sense to fix the powers in addition to this fix to all pets you are doing. But I got the feeling the datamining is saying the power is overpowered.

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It means they knew that it was happening. But didn't know how much of an impact it would have on the game as a whole.

"Pets recharge is affected? Eh, it'll be fine"

*one datamine later*

"HOLY CRAP, look at these numbers!"

Though perhaps not QUITE like that. You get the idea

[/ QUOTE ]Again why does it even matter, its not like storm defenders are soloing the STF or something. I could see if that was the case but I seriously doubt a single storm defender is doing that right now. What so significant about these powers? Maybe I am just using them wrong or something I cant see how they can be leveraged to the point of soloing lvl 54 AVs. Just what exactly are the devs afraid that LS, VS, Gun Drone are going to do?

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Overthrow the game and name you as the leader?

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, You all discovered the nemesis plot. Seriously though I would sooner be able to accept what you just said for an answer before I will believe LS, VS and GD are overpowered pets.