Dispari

Isn't it the same thing?

A) Players don't get invited to Apex/Tin because they chose not to or have not yet gotten the required incarnate object that allows them to reasonably engage the enemies therein.

B) Players don't get invited to (hypothetical future incarnate content) because they chose not to or have not yet gotten the required incarnate object that allows them to reasonably engage the enemies therein.

"I can't handle these +8s because I didn't get my alpha slot yet" is the same thing as "I can't handle these +8s because I didn't get any level shifts yet" isn't it?

Well, I do have 7 Notices I'm not doing anything with. But like you I'm hanging onto them.

Castle also said that players might not be the only ones level shifted, and Posi has been wrong before. The devs aren't perfect, and not everything is already planned out. I was still speaking hypothetically, only saying it's possible. Because such a scenario effectively already exists.

That's fine; the person I was responding to asked a hypothetical about how fast each person thinks the system should be for non-trial runners. My suggestion was 10:50. That's just the opinion of one non-dev though.

I was speaking hypothetically about a possible future scenario. I'm both aware that the new trials aren't to that point yet and there's no proof that we ever will get to that point (I even specifically said that in my post). If you think I'm panicking about something that may not even happen then you're sorely mistaken.

I used Apex/Tin as an example. Right now the new trials are +4 with reduction to a possible +1. Anyone from 50-53 can handle them. Apex/Tin however can scale up to +8. And most 50s can't handle that, and people don't usually get invited to them. If, and I say if as a purely hypothetical point, new trials ever get to that point, people who aren't level shifted probably wouldn't be welcome. If we got to the point where the enemies were 50+12 (or probably 54+8) then players would probably have at least +8 by then. So if you were still 8 level shifts behind, you probably aren't going.

My comment was purely in response to the idea that we could never reach a point where people aren't welcome on a trial team because they don't have enough incarnate stuff. And not some sense of doomsaying.

To me that says nothing of the advancement of actually getting the powers themselves and everything about the speed of iXP between "earning" it and "buying" it. I actually feel like either earning it is too slow, or buying it is too fast. Because I frequently already had a rare power before I even unlocked the slot. In fact I got tired of waiting on Lore because I was getting ~8% per BAF, so I just spent 22-23 threads on finishing it off.

I think that's a separate argument to how fast people should be able to get all the powers themselves.

I mentioned before that a shard:thread conversion ratio of 10:50 would allow:

1) About 1.67 months (50 days) for the unlocking and slotting of one slot, which is longer than Alpha took but still not in the "years" category.

2) Allow people who aren't doing the trials to fully unlock and fully complete the new slots in a bit under 7 months, which is a decent estimate for when the next stuff will be out for people to fiddle around with.

3) Be an actual effective 1:1 conversion ratio; 4 shards = 1 common but 20 threads = 1 common. 10 shards is 2.5 commons for Alpha, and 50 threads would be 2.5 commons for the other stuff. What increases the rate slightly is that you need more rares and stuff to actually finish.

4) Allow players to do whatever content they want, while still giving a speed and ease advantage to people doing it "the intended way."

It would still cost money but it'd be a step in the right direction.

Granted that's still true right now. But people tend to get turned away from an Apex if they don't have an alpha slot right? Not a whole lot of contribution a Stalker can give if all the enemies are +8 to them.

If future trials have 54+3 enemies, don't you think people will want to make sure the people on their team are at least 50+3?

One or two levels doesn't make a difference, but there's definitely going to be a cutoff period where you aren't going to be too keen on inviting someone to fight +12 enemies. Exactly when, if, and to what degree we hit that point is up in the air though. It's not out of the realm of possibility that future trials will effectively require level shifts, and that people who don't have them won't be very welcome.

That sounds great, except in one week you didn't even earn enough threads to unlock one single slot and slot a common in it (next week you can at least). Even then I feel like 10 shards for an ITF is a high expectation. My average for ITFs (and I do them fairly often) is 7. So I imagine it would take you 10 ITFs a week, rather than 7. Also Notices only average 5 shards, not 10.

In that same amount of time doing trials I have 3 VRs and 2 rares. And I made money rather than spent it.

Even assuming your numbers are right -- let's say you can earn 80 shards a week doing only 7 ITFs a week. It's always the WST and you get 80 shards each week. You will still have to run around 880 more ITFs to catch up to where I already was after the first week.

Resist resists resistance debuffs (say that three times fast). If he has 100% RES, no amount of -RES should be able to reduce it, unless it's unresitable -RES (I don't think players have any of that).

Then honestly your opinion on the subject is basically meaningless, as it directly contradicts the devs' intention with this system. If your argument is "I don't feel it takes too long because they shouldn't get it in the first place," that doesn't help the devs figure out how fast solo players should be getting it. And they do intend for solo players to get it, whether you like it or not.

The devs' intention is for solo players to be able to obtain the new incarnate stuff, but not as fast as people doing the "intended" method. If it's currently too fast, too slow, or too hard to get is the argument. "They shouldn't get it at all" does not help to answer that question and essentially has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

"You shouldn't even have a cup" isn't an answer to "is the cup half empty or half full?"

I already addressed this above. Even at a completely absurd 50 shards per day it would still take a year. Again, for something a trial player can get in a week. And I already addressed that if you start dropping your expectations and settle for uncommon/rare, that's just even that much faster that the trial player can get it. If you drop VRs and just get all rares, you can get that in a day or two. Which still takes over a year doing it with shards.

I would agree with you if incarnate made sense. The amount of effort required for incarnate varies between one week to 2.7 years, for the same rewards.

If incarnate stuff is a "better reward" than it shouldn't be attainable in a week. If it's not, then it shouldn't take years.