Death_Mage

Ok, so if for issues 13-17, if they were dedicated to adding Villain content, which heroes got the occasional use of and benefit from, here the contacts treat them as bloodthirsty murders, criminals, etc., and only on issue 16 do you get missions actually geared for heroes, you'd be just fine with that Xyzyx?

Yup. Chaos theory coding.

They designed, coded, implemented... and then ignored a game that they claim doesn't even really exist.

The patches and expansions have been for City of Heroes since I7. CoV just got caught up in 'em by circumstance.

There's a bit of a difference there though. Ex Libris is at least somewhat active in the PvP forums. Even that topic was started by Ex Libris.

When was the last time you saw a red name comment, at all, on the issues CoV players have about feeling neglected? Heck, where's our forum from it? The City of Villains forum disappeared, it got rolled into "general discussions", under the category "for fun". We don't even have a real place TO voice our concerns.

We can worry about making the case presentable to the devs after the devs show us that they care, even the slightest. Right now, we don't have their attention at all, they refuse to acknowladge that there even IS a problem.

Preach on, brutha!

Text does not translate emotion. All questions and answers are flat. Keep that in mind.

And don't ask stupid questions.

And yes, there ARE stupid questions.

You asked why a villain would care. We answered you.

If you don't want questions answered, don't ask them.

Yes, that includes rhetorical questions.

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What makes you think that, as a villain, my own safety is somehow not my concern? I see the ambassador of a faction that's actively trying to kill me, and your response is "you're a villain, what do you care?"

Simply put, ambassador is now on my hit list. I shouldn't be doing jobs for him, I should be taking him out.

Depending on the villain, anyway. To some, the bombs are just an annoyance, if that. Then again, so is the entire Rikti "threat"....

Yea, there's a lot of ways they could have worked Ambassador Kuhr'Rekt's presence into the story for I10. He could have been there as cover, could have been there to pass info on, could have been turned off for the duration, etc. etc... But the point is, they didn't bother to do anything with him. He's still sitting there in Grandville sticking out like a sore thumb and passing out missions to villains who come asking while his kind and bombing the city.

I wouldn't mind getting a chance to run around the shard with my villain (who can also fly). If it is anything like the missions we have for it, even without fly I have no problem hitting the geysers. Hey, I made it to 50, Grandville and all, without a travel power. Bad terrain doesn't bother me that much. I think a lot of players take the awesomeness of the travel powers for granted, and are too used to having them. I come from games where you don't have them, so....

My problem isn't with the RWZ itself, it's just that it didn't seem very well thought out. Like I've said before, there's already something just right for a "bigger threat" co-op, and that's Hamidon. As for the Rikti, villains have a contact where we're working with the waring faction. Story wise, their big invasion doesn't make sense for CoV. It doesn't make sense for CoV characters to be limited to working against their own allies. RWZ would have been a lot better if the zone hadn't been geared for Heroes. Have different text for Villains. Have some other contacts scattered about that let us work against Vanguard and with the Rikti, or just in our own interests. Have some hero specific contacts as well. (Alternate ways in for either side would help too... but that's just cosmetic. I mean, sabotaging a Vanguard plan than hopping home through their own portal... ballsy, but not very practical.)

On the surface, I have no real problems with the flashbacks. I think the TFs were poorly thought out though. Even forgiving the "series of endless AV/Hero fights", we have a story where WE put Recluse in power.. yet we're still supposed to bow down to him? Give me a break. I also think the challenges, while an interesting idea... are under utilized. All they do is give badges. They don't give any benefit other than that (unless I'm mistaken). Now, if turning the challenges on gave an increase in the rewards, say higher inf/exp (well, inf, since you're usually exempted down and thus can't gain exp anyway), more chance for drops, etc... But then they'd turn even more into farming missions... but really, aren't they anyway? There's no point to doing them after you've done the arc other than getting the rewards again...

And it's not even like the challenges are that hard. Villains have some "mission arcs" that are a single mission. Half an hour? No problem, I can be done in <10 minutes! And it's an easy mission too, so no need for my temp powers, my inspirations, etc.

I11, badge [censored] and farming. That's pretty much what the current implementation of it turned out to be. *sigh*.

Yes, communication good. Tired bad.

I must apologize for some of my comments to you, Munki. There really was no excuse for them.

Ok, let's try this again, while less tired, and after having been humbled on one key complaint that turned out to be false (Heroes and Villains apparently have the same amount of Trial Pool drop options (although I've still never seen villains run Hamidon on my server... very frustrating that)).

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Nobody wants to see Heroes get shafted. But a 60/40 balance, or a 75/25 balance, still gives heroes plenty new to do and helps fill the obvious, glaring gaps in CoV.

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I've seen you bring up this point before(and I think I agreed with it too initially, I don't now that I've thought about it). Please explain to me how in the world giving about 1/3 of the game's population more content than the other 2/3? How would that make financial success? It seems to me that splitting the content 50/50(even if you don't like the content or how some of the missions are worded, it counts as content), like the have been doing recently, is the best course of action. Now if they do almost half and half then add a feature or two for villains each issue(Epic ATs, a new TF here or there, etc) that would be good for them as well.

But to even suggest that villains get 3 times the new content heroes do is absurd. Please explain to me how that could possibly be a good idea for NC Soft.

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Simple: More reason to play. Right now, there is half of the game that is being neglected. Even the supposed 50/50 splits really aren't when they are focused entirely on one side with the other side simply given access. Adding new content to CoV, especially now that everyone has access to it, makes CoV more attractive, and gives more reason to actually PLAY it. Plus, it makes those of us who DO favor that side a bit LESS likely to just say "[censored] it" and leave becuase of being neglected.

Villains need more content. Nobody can look at the two games and say otherwise. We have serious gaps in our TFs, we have no trials, we have *ONE* zone path, no options. We are locked into *ONE* story. Heroes have choices. Simply put: More attention NEEDS to be paid to City of Villains to bring it up to speed.

This does not mean making an issue totally dedicated to Villains. heroes should get something every time too. Ideally, EVERY SINGLE ISSUE should be dropping new contacts, new mission arcs etc., even into pre-existing zones. Even if that's not the focus of the issue, it helps everyone to add new content here and there.

But, up to this point, they haven't done that. The devs have a myopic focus every issue, they implement the new tricks and NOTHING ELSE. Hell, it's only been recently that we've been seeing even some new costume options since, HOW long? We could earn them via longevity in I8, we could build pieces in I9, and buy them in I10, but nothing for newly created characters.

These things, these small bits of "fluff" are what makes the games interesting. If I13 turned out to be a 3:1 ratio in the favor of villains, and added some basic fixes, or a new gameplay mechanic, or just simple additions (new missions, new costume pieces, new powersets, or new contacts) to Heroes, you're still getting plenty new to do, and Villains will finally be getting what they NEED.

But, for the last time, the insane notion that CoH needs to be *THE* focus becuase it has the most people only spells the death of CoV, and hurts CoX as a whole for it. Attention is needed most where the content is lacking, NOT where content is already abundant.

Think Field of Dreams. If you build it, they will come.

I stand corrected.

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i9 was inventions, both sides have access to that and the same chance of any recipe dropping.

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Villains have almost no access to Pool D (Trial) drops. We have *ONE* trial, and it is almost never run.

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Hero-side, Eden Trial and Abandoned Sewers Trial give out Task Force pool drops instead of Trial pool drops. Cavern of Transcendence's drops are buggy, so that leaves us with the respec trial and Hamidon for Pool D recipes. And that's exactly the same as what villains have.

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Then I guess the people I know who run the Eden Trial for the Trial pool drops are liars? You're the first person I've seen say that it gives TF drops.

*sigh* That's the thing. You AREN'T making good points. You've demonstrated that you quite frankly don't know what you're talking about. Even if you have the evidence clearly pointed out to you about some major disparity in the game, you IGNORED IT.

So, we ignore you.

Ok, you have now entered levels of willful ignorance that makes you no longer worth talking to. Baibai.

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i9 was inventions, both sides have access to that and the same chance of any recipe dropping.

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Villains have almost no access to Pool D (Trial) drops. We have *ONE* trial, and it is almost never run.

If, by your reasoning, giving CoV extra content is "giving a minority of the game's players an overwhelming majority of new content", then the inverse must be true.

Fixing the overwhelming gap of content CoH has over CoV does not mean abandoning CoH, as you seem to think it does.

Quite simply, Munki, your question is absurd, therefore, unworthy of a real answer.

Might as well be asking why the devs are so intent on angering the harp seal population.

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I just dont think giving Red side more is feasible at this point. I like the villain AT's more (though I am a self professed unabashed Kheld lover) but I do know the game came out a year and a half after CoH did. That means CoH had total attention for at least a year more. You cant make that gap up.

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Yes, you can, easily. they've had 2 years to sprinkle more CoV content in to catch that side up. They could have DONE it by now.

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Nobody wants to see Heroes get shafted. But a 60/40 balance, or a 75/25 balance, still gives heroes plenty new to do and helps fill the obvious, glaring gaps in CoV.

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I've seen you bring up this point before(and I think I agreed with it too initially, I don't now that I've thought about it). Please explain to me how in the world giving about 1/3 of the game's population more content than the other 2/3? How would that make financial success? It seems to me that splitting the content 50/50(even if you don't like the content or how some of the missions are worded, it counts as content), like the have been doing recently, is the best course of action. Now if they do almost half and half then add a feature or two for villains each issue(Epic ATs, a new TF here or there, etc) that would be good for them as well.

But to even suggest that villains get 3 times the new content heroes do is absurd. Please explain to me how that could possibly be a good idea for NC Soft.

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Explain to me how alienating, in your estimation, 1/3 of the game's population is a good idea.

And here we go with the same old tired [censored] yet again. Sky repeats the failed circular logic. Mirai denounces a point that hasn't been made.

Nobody wants to see Heroes get shafted. But a 60/40 balance, or a 75/25 balance, still gives heroes plenty new to do and helps fill the obvious, glaring gaps in CoV.

But, the devs haven't even tried. And pardon me if I'm going to believe what I see from the devs over some Joe Random on the forums. Their intentions are obvious by their updates.

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City of Heroes CAME first. That's largely why it's got so much content ahead of CoV. And I already talked about why CoV hasn't gotten specific content added in the past year.

There are honest and fair-minded reasons why CoV hasn't received a whole lot of specific attention in the past year - but sadly, all you can see - all you WANT to see - is "CoV didn't get stuff I wanted, therefore, DEVS HATE VILLAINS!"

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There's been more than 2 years to balance it out. They haven't even TRIED. They've made zero effort. That *IS* a clear-cut bias.

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It wouldn't work here, true, but imagine this game if we could make our own decisions about whether our Super (or Meta, or just Human) was good, evil, or amoral. A balance nightmare to be sure, but intriguing.

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That's where a pen and paper RPG would have been extremely useful... but alas... Eden Studios failed to deliver. However, that's a topic for another thread.

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Mutants and Masterminds.
HERO.

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Another thing I'm getting tired of repeating myself on - it's not malice, stupidity, or ignorance that has caused CoV to be neglected, content-wise, for so long. It's been a simple lack of time, effort, and resources to devote to giving all aspects of the game the same amount of attention, so they instead concentrated their efforts on stuff that would provide the largest benefit to the playerbase in general. Villain side didn't get specific improvements, and neither did PVP, base raids, or older hero side content like the Abandoned Sewers Trial.

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Sorry, that's still ignorance.

"Heroes have more players so they need more content then Heroes will get more players so that they'll need more content.." This inane circular logic only guarantees the doom of CoV. It is only stupidity that would rely on it.

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The basic premise of co-op play I don't think was terribly a bad idea, since classic comics have had moments where good guys and bad guys have called a temporary truce to unite against a greater threat. The implementation was a bit clumsy in that everyone, hero or villain, was given the same set of contacts and missions that had a strong hero-ish flavor, but the basic idea wasn't a bad one, IMO.

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Rikti aren't a greater threat.

No matter how they tried to play it up in the story, the Rikti are JUST Rikti. It's ONLY an alien invading force. Bend on destroying the world, or all humanity on it, is irrelevant. As I've said before, I have chars who have the same background. WHY would they EVER side with the humans AGAINST a force that's doing the exact same thing they want to see happen? If the devs actually were thinking about the Villain side of the thing instead of their myopic focus on City of Heroes, they would have given each side some different contacts in RWZ that allows them to choose a side. Sure, have the co-op Vanguard if you truly believe it's necessary, but have a true hero faction and some villain factions. Some Villains would work WITH the Rikti.. after all, we already DO that in Grandville.

Hamidon was co-op worthy, but they didn't do it with Hamidon. They half-[censored] it.

So no, that excuse doesn't fly, at all. Devs dropped the ball, yet again.

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What basic features are villains lacking that heroes have?

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So you admit your own ignorance. That explains a lot.

Let's see here, how about some basics like hazard zones, epic ATs, Trials, at LEAST one TF for every range, at LEAST two zones for every range, contacts that are origin dependent, hell, they even have the little info booths everywhere. The list goes on and on.

The devs have not even ATTEMPTED to make up the difference in the past two years. Everything added to the game since I8 has been dual sided. IE, City of HEROES comes first. Villains aren't thought about except to give them access to what you're adding. Nothing's been added FOR them.