Darkbridger

Since we having Rikti invasions this weekend, I figure a Rikti-fied Matinée is in order. We'll start with a Lady Grey TF and IF there is enough interest afterward, we'll start a ship raid... a double header of sorts, if you will. The usual 1pm eastern start time and 12:45 gathering time in RWZ are in effect for the TF. If a raid starts, there will probably be a 10-15min break after the TF before it begins. You are encouraged to sign up for either or both of these things when signing up, but I can't guarantee any sort of start time for a raid.

LADY GREY

1. Darkbridger - Cold Reduction (L45 Ice/EM Blaster)
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ALT


SHIP RAID

1. Darkbridger - Megabyte Man (L50 Bots/FF MM)
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ALT

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Just announcing your intentions over global channels CAN build a team. Try it.

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Well, unless your intentions lead to a visit from the FBI... then, not so much.

How to invite the FBI to your house

Happy Birthday!

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I think instead of posting all my "I might make it, depends on the weather" responses, I'll stick to only posting a reply when I don't have anything scheduled. If something gets rained out, I can always just show up and see if there are spots left (or enough reserves for a second team).

But since I'm already posting... we have weather-dependent plans for this Saturday. Last I checked, the forecast was (finally) for decent weather.

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Nothing wrong with signing up as an ALT as doing so gives me a list of names to contact to fill spots before doing a general fill broadcast.

Going to stick with the hero side again this week. We'll run Sister Psyche (L20-25) at the normal 1pm eastern time with gathering in IP at 12:45. For anyone new, feel free to join the Justice Sat Mat global chat channel.

1. Darkbridger - Pugilistic Priest (L23 Will/SS Tanker)
2. Nytetroid - TechnoHuntsman (L23 TA/Archery Defender)
3. SuperGoober - StuporGoober (L22 Concussion/Fainting Scrapper)
4. Radmind - something totally rad!
5. Katfood - I'm Legal! (L21 Alcohol/Party Blaster)
6. Allyriah - Mystical Twilight (L20 Warshade)
7. Thornster - Fidgit (L21 Kin/Energy Defender)
8. MikeHoncho - Mike Honcho (L50 Kat/Reg Scrapper)
9. CinderSpawn - Phantom Force (L50 Ill/Rad Controller)

ALT
DesiNova

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And also this...

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PvP = serious business


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... even if in jest, is partly why I've never got into PvP in any game. I've never been much of a competitive gamer I guess. Too much time spent playing D&D probably.

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He didn't anger people by PvPing; he angered people by griefing in PvP zones (TP Droning, etc). He engaged in various "no in-game reward" behaviors that didn't violate offical rules.


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Oh, I completely understand that. I also fully understand your problems with his research. I found the article midly intriguing because of it. I was kind of surprised that he was surprised, as it were. :P I've seen PvP in many, many games, including in games where it was, technically, not allowed. Reactions have pretty much always been the same to what people label as "griefing". The fact that someone now has to write papers on it makes me wonder where they were when games like Islands of Kesmai, Kingdom of Drakkar, the original Neverwinter Nights and what was it called... RuneQuest or Rune-something... were around. PvP isn't new, nor is griefing... heck, I remember people that griefed in "cowboys and indians" as a kid... you remember him... the one that refused to die when he got shot... yeah, that guy.

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whats funny is after reading this article yesterday i strole into RV and find a bunch of villians (bout 8-10) eaming to try and fight AV's. Im the only heroe in zone. So i decided to just have alittle bit of fun and -poke- them so to speak, knowing that a team of 9-10 vils is gonna own me.

And i think it was you Ba who got mad at me for doing this to them even though it's in a pvp zone. lol And even though i was nice enough to help them by capturing a pillbox so they could capture it back to summon statesman.

Bunch of lulz last night.

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So they beat the AVs? I ran a Matinée last year that visited AV for the purposes of villain AV killing. After the PVP changes were made, I heard the AVs got much tougher and haven't scheduled a followup event for hero AV killing. We got "poked" during that event too, and all the heroes quickly squashed the villain, but I don't think anyone got upset over it. I think 1 or 2 of the PvPers ended up helping us out back then too.

And also this...

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PvP = serious business


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... even if in jest, is partly why I've never got into PvP in any game. I've never been much of a competitive gamer I guess. Too much time spent playing D&D probably.

Disclaimer: I'm not a PvPer... I still found this article intriguing.

Twixt

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I think the devs made a big mistake with the AV buff (troller nerf) in i5. In essence when they bumped up the AVs resists to debuffs it essentially made the end game bosses a matter of doing as much damage to them while killing their regen rate, and surviving whatever custom attack they have or ambushes etc.

Slow, confuse, fear, -end, and -acc debuffs really don't help much against AVs, which takes away the variety that you used to be able to bring to defeating end game NPCs.

So now it's all custom coding to poke holes in the standard TF/AV template in order for underperforming sets to feel useful.

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Hmmm, as a programmer, I certainly hope "custom code" isn't required to deviate from a standard AV template. That's a very hindered design if that's the case. Being able to make AVs with specific weaknesses (don't we see this in comics ALL the time) would seem to be a requirement. That doesn't mean making them so weak that an encounter becomes non-challenging though. Given that team makeup can vary so much, building weaknesses into an AV/encounter can be problematic anyhow. If you have multiple players with a key attack, the encounter may indeed become too easy. But at the same time, you don't want it to be too hard for any teams lacking the power. At least, that seems to be the design goals of Paragon at this point. Many games have encounters that aren't winnable (or become exceedingly hard) except with key elements... but that sort of thing doesn't seem to go over well here.

I imagine MMO content must be a PITA to design for, particularly when the underlying game itself changes so frequently and, in some cases, radically. The more content you amass, the more you need to tweak for any givien game update. It's a pretty vicious development cycle really. I've seen the end-game content in a few other MMOs, and they all follow similar design patterns. To me, there isn't a lot of innovating going on in that area in any game. I like the more casual feel of CoH, and the game has a strong enough base, that I think the developers should feel able to stretch the boundaries of this type of content a bit. As MissI said, the goal should be fun, and pounding on a pile-o-health is only fun for so long or so many repetitions. Though I expect, if the developers did try a few radical departures in encounter design and didn't pull it off (good luck defining "failure" in that case), the fallout would be worse than the "been there done that" feedback they get for being consistent, if somewhat boring.

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I am really fed up with Task Forces that require us to beat up the same person multiple times or for a ridiculously long period of time before we win. That's just plain lazy "I'm out of ideas.... let's keep beating up this one guy over and over"
development. Beating up on nearly impossible to kill guy isn't "epic." It's tedious. Adding ambushes doesn't change the fact that we're still beating up one guy over and over again. I think our Dev team is far too talented to continually be hauling out this type of final encounter.

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Sadly, there isn't a lot of variety available here. Sure, there are probably many creative ways to do the same thing, but most significant challenges in the game are going to be geared for teams of 4 or more. And all of them, inevitably, will boil down to beating something up. A vast majority of our "powers" fall into 2 categories, dealing damage or protecting from it. That kind of limits what you can do with any given encounter. I would like to see more creativity in the final confrontation, but I'm not sure how likely it is that we'll see it.

Here's a few quick, off-the-hip ideas of my own:

A massive robot or similar construction that you have to beat the layers off of to get to the chewy opponent inside. It's still really just a big bag of health, but at least it can be presented in better parts without a full heal occuring. And hey, everyone likes beating up giant robots.

An opponent/group hidden away in a base with several layers of defenses that you have to overcome. Lots of potential to use the roles of the various ATs here, and in some cases, even powersets. Unfortunately, with things like Team Teleport, there are lots of loopholes to be aware of as well. Requires multiple paths to completion since team makeup can vary so much, which increases the creation time and complexity by more than a minor amount. Pretty much like the giant robot, except it doesn't move and it's the entire zone.

An opponent/group that copies himself and spreads those copies out on a map, with only 1 being the real one. Determining the real one (which is random each time) requires brainwork, not power mashing. Or you can just beat all of them I guess, which is where the flaw comes in, particularly if beating the copies can earn you more "stuff". This type of thing would become routine pretty quick though, since even when random, there would be limited configurations.

An opponent/group who stages a running fight with the team over the entire duration of the TF/SF, where his powers and/or allies change randomly each time, and each time it is a different AT that can end the fight quickly (varying weaknesses).

An opponent/group that can only be defeated by creative use of terrain as a weapon.

An opponent/group that isn't defeated, but instead avoided in the process of reaching a goal, such as a rescue. This could involve stealth, control tactics, as well as "tanking" as a distraction.

An opponent/group that attacks a fixed position that the team must defend using their own powers as well as defenses at the fixed position.

An encounter that begins with each team member separated in a different portion of the map and fighting to regroup and/or escape. Again, teleport powers make this a non-starter unless disabled.

Since this is a holiday weekend, I'm going to run something with a lower number of people required and save the new TF/SF for another time. We'll run the Synapse TF (L15-20) at the usual 1pm eastern start time with 12:45 gathering in Skyway. I've also conned a friend into joining us... he's new to the Matinée and new to TFs I believe, so be gentle.

1. Darkbridger - Pugilistic Priest (L23 SS/Will Tanker)
2. Nytetroid - Technohuntsman (L23 TA/Archery Defender)
3. Abraxxus - Ronin (L50 ?/? Scrapper)
4. SuperGoober - something! (L2 whatchamacallit/thingamabob Gadgeteer)
5. MikeHoncho - Mike Honcho (L50 Kat/Reg Scrapper)
6. MissInformed - Sarah Wynter (L50 Ice/Kin Controller)
7. Thornster - Fidgit (L15 Kin/Energy Defender)
8. SpyderNoir - Naphil (L50 PB)
9. Luciferion - Golden Mogwai (L37 Cold/Psi Defender)
10. Katfood - ?

ALT

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4a. The SF version he does have more interesting responses/powers, but in some ways it seems like a crutch to give underperforming ATs a buff specifically for this SF.

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Yeah, this is what I thought too when someone told me about the Stalker thing. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for the designer though. He can either attempt to make each AT feel useful, or genericize the entire encounter to the point where any team can do it. I don't mind seeing a few things out at this extreme, I just hope it doesn't end up the "norm" for the villain side. Other MMOs have had similar problems with trying to validate the usefulness of a class (AT) in end-game content. It often does feel forced, but there's not much you can do about that feeling if the class in question has a long established non-role (or questionable role).

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Theoretically it is possible to defeat the boss without zapping the spawns but the current MM temp power cannot unphase the boss, lengthening the time to beating him and therefore increasing the number of ambushes. Until the MM temp power is fixed, you should bring a stalker to zap the ambushes.

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Once this works, I suspect average times on the SF will go down. The spawns can get to an overwhelming point pretty quick, but a team with decent support and damage output can probably drop him before that point. If you have a Stalker, it'll be even easier.

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4b. The TF is much simpler at the end. The boss fights and as his health goes down 4 more AVs will 'wake up' and fight your team. The order in which they wake is random, and you must defeat all 4 AVs and the boss to finish the mission. The boss has no phase power like in the SF version and in one run we kept beating on him, spawning all 4 AVs and fighting them all at the same time. This was done without a tank, but with 4 defenders, a controller, a scrapper and 2 blasters, just to illustrate how much more simple the TF is than the SF.


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My intial TF run involved a couple Scrappers, but no tank. One scrapper kept the boss busy while the rest of us jumped from boss to AV. It really wasn't very tough, though I (the other scrapper) did get insta-pwned by the psi using AV, but that was my fault... I haven't played my Scrapper since day jobs came out, and I was woefully out of practice.

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I was on a team with Gad, Tal, Mari and others last night trying the red side SF. I must say it was the most frustrated I've ever been with the game. Our team was mowing stuff down left and right until we got to the last room. We wiped a few times with all the ambushes but that was OK. The worst part, of course, was Reichsman. We could get him about halfway down before he hit unbreakable. By the time it wore off he was almost back at full health. After what seemed like forever doing the lather, rinse, repeat thing we finally gave it up.

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And to follow ths up:

Cuda Force Five attempt #2 tried again tonight.

1 Broote, 1 Widow, 2 MMs, 2 Stalkers, 2 Corrupters

Took us.....2hrs, 40ish minutes but we beat it.

It went a lot more smoothely since I basically said "Ok we need to do this, avoid that, beat on this" for the last mission to try to reduce the death-rate. And fortunate was on my side that my Brute-tanking was not fail tonight.

We wiped... twice, I think, with the ambushes and then took on Reichsman, where after with much experimentation we found out that the MM debuff does -not- work in any way shape or form currently.

However, we were slowly whittling him down, until I said offhandily "ok if anyone has a Shivan please pull them out". Then out popped 4 shivans and he went down faster than Kerse at a pie-eating contest.


Soooo not really a fan of how that last mission was constructed and not a fan of how you have to go talk to Recluse after the SF mission concludesbefore you get your merits/badge. However, I think the story in the villain side is far superior to the hero side. Except for the Empowering Reichsman Clue, 1st sentence, 2nd paragraph which reads:
"The machine like it is very well defending."


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Were your Stalkers not able to use the consoles to stop the ambushes? I haven't seen this done, but apparently only Stalkers can do it.

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I was on a team with Gad, Tal, Mari and others last night trying the red side SF. I must say it was the most frustrated I've ever been with the game. Our team was mowing stuff down left and right until we got to the last room. We wiped a few times with all the ambushes but that was OK. The worst part, of course, was Reichsman. We
could get him about halfway down before he hit unbreakable. By the time it wore off he was almost back at full health. After what seemed like forever doing the lather, rinse, repeat thing we finally gave it up.

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*taunts with badge from the SF*

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And go away or he shall taunt you a second time.

Dr. Kahn is in Founders (on the side of the road near the train) and Barracuda is in Grandville (around the corner from the Fateweaver)

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last mish is an obvious farm with never-ending ambushes. reported for exploitive content.

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lol We were all joking about that last night as well!

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Actually, didn't the ambushes stop once we wiped and came back? We killed a bunch getting back to that middle room, but I didn't see nearly as many the second time around on the AV.

Since this is a holiday weekend, I'm going to run something with a lower number of people required and save the new TF/SF for another time. We'll run the Synapse TF (L15-20) at the usual 1pm eastern start time with 12:45 gathering in Skyway. I've also conned a friend into joining us... he's new to the Matinée and new to TFs I believe, so be gentle.

1. Darkbridger - Pugilistic Priest (L23 SS/Will Tanker)
2. Nytetroid - Technohuntsman (L23 TA/Archery Defender)
3. Abraxxus - Ronin (L50 ?/? Scrapper)
4. SuperGoober - something! (L2 whatchamacallit/thingamabob Gadgeteer)
5. MikeHoncho - Mike Honcho (L50 Kat/Reg Scrapper)
6. MissInformed - Sarah Wynter (L50 Ice/Kin Controller)
7. Thornster - Fidgit (L15 Kin/Energy Defender)
8. SpyderNoir - ?
9. Luciferion - Golden Mogwai (L37 Cold/Psi Defender)

ALT

I was on an 8 person team last night that did ok. We wiped once, but that is probably mostly due to the fact that none of us had done it before. On return, we fought back through the ambushes, got Rman cornered and pounded him into paste. We had a fairly mixed group... 2 MMs, 3 Corrs, 1 Brute, 1 Dom... hmmm, don't remember our 8th... another Dom maybe... but we did not have a Stalker.

However, there still seems to be a bit of a disparity between the blue and red side here. The blue side TF was run in a similar fashion, with people who hadn't done it before, and we never had a problem. I also think the red side SF should be worth more than 20 Merits. I guess it's still true... the devs hate villains.

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And singularities that collapse upon themselves.

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The Star Trek MMO is thataway ------->

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I will never get, for example, why anyone would want a "shoulder kitten." Seriously.

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Fur lawls, of course!

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There's a bit of a difference in your case. You made use of a costume option that was already there. You weren't lobbying the art team to add shoulder kittens.

It's red side week, so I think we're due for some eyeball stabbing. The Sharks (Operative Renault) SF (L25-30) at the usual 1pm eastern time with 12:45 gathering time.

1. Darkbridger - Pain Threshold (L25 Elec/PD Corr)
2. Allyriah - Ampyriah (L25 Elec/Elec Brute)
3. MikeHoncho - Dolores Mulva (L50 Fort)
4. Luciferion - Luci Fearion (L26 Sonic/Rad Corr)
5. Katfood - LolKat (L25 Fire/Psi Dom)
6. Steeple - Operative Webster (L27 Crab)
7. SuperGoober - ?
8. BattleRoyale - Dark Passion Demise (L28 Widow)
9. Killerhurtz - Webmaster Azkikr (L29 Crab)
10. Radmind - Arbiter Se7en (L28 Crab)

ALT
MrsTopDoc
SynapseOverload
ManInBlack

Put me down as an ALT. I have a Mastermind that I can bring, but if it's a Master run I'll let those that need the badge get in first.

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If you want to try for a "Master" for Statesman I'm in, but short of getting you to PL my brute to the right level (which shouldn't take long, if you're interested), I'm afraid I won't be joining you.

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Ya gotta say this for Liv, he's ambitious! Going for the Master of [u]Statesman's[u] TF on his [u]brute[u]!?!

(Yeah, yeah, I know he probably meant Lord Recluse, but since I've poked fun at Tal(and others, but apparently mostly Tal) for her spelling goofs, I feel obligated to poke fun at Liv. Me being an equal-opportunity jerk-hole and all... )

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I think he meant he'd be up for an STF, but doesn't have a villain in range for LRSF yet.

Master run or no?

It's red side week, so I think we're due for some eyeball stabbing. The Sharks (Operative Renault) SF (L25-30) at the usual 1pm eastern time with 12:45 gathering time.

1. Darkbridger - Pain Threshold (L25 Elec/PD Corr)
2. Allyriah - Ampyriah (L25 Elec/Elec Brute)
3. MikeHoncho - Dolores Mulva (L50 Fort)
4. Luciferion - Luci Fearion (L26 Sonic/Rad Corr)
5. Katfood - LolKat (L25 Fire/Psi Dom)
6. Steeple - Operative Webster (L27 Crab)
7. SuperGoober - ?
8. BattleRoyale - Dark Passion Demise (L28 Widow)

ALT
MrsTopDoc
SynapseOverload
Radmind
ManInBlack