Cuppa_LLX

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I may have asked this before.. but should the heroic setting = "You can't die not even if you want to!" or maybe... "You can go afk with mobs beating on you and still come back and win." Or something along the lines of ... "Auto victory, no matter how you play, the game will cheat enough to make sure you win."

Really is the fact that you can fail on a heroic mission that bad?

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When some who has ben in the CoH Beta, the CoV Beta and been a loyal costomer for 2 years is balnced tothe point THEY can die on heroic. yes i think thats imbalanced. Cause that mena the gues with less experiewnce wont even makr it out of OUTBREAK.

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So, if we are to have the possibility of a defeat each mission and a handful at invincible, why don't they just reward us with automatic debt each time we complete a mision? It would be simpler and STATESMAN WOULD GET HIS "VISION" of a GREAT GAME DESIGN!?!
I am sorry, but there is no balance in Statesman's balanced vision. I mission that will cause a single death for a scrapper or a tank results in nearly constant death for a controller or a defender! And don't give me the same crap that they are suppose to team up... no hero should have to team up for EVERY DARN MISSION! Plus, because of the number of poeple that left to play villains ( not to mention those that left because of VERY POOR PLANNING on COH), there are very few people online when I play in the mornings.
At heroic level, every toon should be am to complete their own missions by themselves- assuming there is no AV or multiple bombs to defuse (that you are NEVER WARNED ABOUT WHEN YOU TAKE THE MISSION!) and it SHOULD NOT PUT YOU FURTHER INTO DEBT THAN WHEN YOU STARTED!

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I don't know what characters YOU'RE playing (I have played multiples of every AT in the game, including Khelds and all villain ATs, up to at least level 14 (Being a severe altoholic) and I have YET to play a character that can't solo missions at the lowest setting (including the Mind controller) and they can ALL (with patience) Solo the highest setting with, at most, a 50/50 chance of dying against particularly mean bosses.

Maybe the PCs and missions aren't your problem?

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Soloability gets a lot harder as you go up in levels.

Also, I'm going to assume you skip the Hollows...a mind controller soloing Frostfire?

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Most of my heroes were already well beyond the Hollows levels when the hollows was introduced, but I did go back and do some Hollows with some new characters at that time...and did I say anything, anywhere about soloing ELITE bosses or AVs? Read a bit more carefully next time...I said against particularly tough BOSSES....Bosses and ELITE Bosses are totally different. Yes, every AT except maybe tankers/brutes needs a team go to up against Elite Bosses. So?

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and yet thats not what he was talkig nabout if statesman is banacing toward one death per heroic then their cant be ballance.

in issue 5 and early since before i change my playstyle AGAIN and respected my character AGAIN my lvl 39-41 ma/sr could barly solo heroic missions..

im im soloing invincible Rikti at 42

my lvl /4/ defender yesterday was soloing and duoing on Rugged...Yes Rugged, the 3rd diffuculty with a lvl 4 kin/elect who has unsloted Transfusion/Siphon power, Charged Bolts and the aoe...And i was teamed wit ha TA/Archer who i ment in outbreak

but if statsman gets his way well all be dieing on heroic...

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I highly disagree. A defeat ratio is in fact a good idea. It would allow you to get an idea based on some variables to determine how hard your game is to the average user. Getting that statistic would be hard, mind you, but yeah.

There's a difference between a statistic, and how you choose to achieve that statistic. Just because they determine that the average user will die once a heroic mission (which, honestly, I've never heard a dev say), doesn't mean that they can't come up with imaginative level design that the average user will possibly die once too.

There are other ways you can come about to figure out how hard your levels are, of course, but I don't see why coming up with a number on how often the average user will die, would be so bad.

My statistic when soloing? I die once per elite boss. Then I buy a crapton of inspirations and show that elite boss whose... boss

Math != Creativity. You can use one to get the other, or not, they are unrelated.

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The problem, from my perspective, isn't the stat gathering. It's saying that you should die once per heroic mission. By that count and your own admission, you would need an Elite Boss in every heroic mission.

My only point was that I really doubt that that's the stat the dev's are shooting for. If it is, it really will kill the game for most of us.

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If I died once in every mission set on heroic I would have left 2 yrs ago. Someone is saying that is what the Devs are striving for? That's ludicrous. If I'm doing heroic missions and I die once a LEVEL, I'm doing something wrong.

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Except Statsman said jsut that

"one defeat at least at heroic, a hand ful on invincible"

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Just because Statesman said it doesn't make it any less stupid. (not trying to argue with you Neko........)

If heroic is the easiest level, why would they expect everyone to fail at least once a mission? I would not expect to die every mission even when I am set on rugged or unyielding.

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YOU said you would quit if we got there

all i was saying was "but that IS what they want to push us to"

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I highly disagree. A defeat ratio is in fact a good idea. It would allow you to get an idea based on some variables to determine how hard your game is to the average user. Getting that statistic would be hard, mind you, but yeah.

There's a difference between a statistic, and how you choose to achieve that statistic. Just because they determine that the average user will die once a heroic mission (which, honestly, I've never heard a dev say), doesn't mean that they can't come up with imaginative level design that the average user will possibly die once too.

There are other ways you can come about to figure out how hard your levels are, of course, but I don't see why coming up with a number on how often the average user will die, would be so bad.

My statistic when soloing? I die once per elite boss. Then I buy a crapton of inspirations and show that elite boss whose... boss

Math != Creativity. You can use one to get the other, or not, they are unrelated.

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The problem, from my perspective, isn't the stat gathering. It's saying that you should die once per heroic mission. By that count and your own admission, you would need an Elite Boss in every heroic mission.

My only point was that I really doubt that that's the stat the dev's are shooting for. If it is, it really will kill the game for most of us.

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If I died once in every mission set on heroic I would have left 2 yrs ago. Someone is saying that is what the Devs are striving for? That's ludicrous. If I'm doing heroic missions and I die once a LEVEL, I'm doing something wrong.

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Except Statsman said jsut that

"one defeat at least at heroic, a hand ful on invincible"

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I also had a friend who plays a Brute try to solo Snaptooth only to conclude that doing so was impossible;

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I play a ss/inv brute and I have soloed that mission everytime the dj gave it to me and completed the arc and got the badge. Its not that he is impossible. you just need better tactics.

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i fought him with a lvl 50 ff/rad, 41 ma/sr, 32 warshade, 32 invuln/ss tank 14 fire/em tank, 26 dark/dark scrapper and 11 FotM Kat/Regen (yes the uber)

the only way iwas able to beat him was if the team had a lot of aoes, once you defest his LT version and he becomes a bodd mobs of caps start to swarm, we face a good 25 mobs buy the time he was a EB. AOE is the key to sucesss

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Look at Statemans post and see if you can find any lies in them, i have seen lots. But that is what i was trained to do.


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I keep a large database of Statesman's posts. Never once have I found anything I can class as a lie. Never once has anyone been able to provide proof of a lie.

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"Enervating field has not been changed"
"we changed EF atthe begining of Issue 5"

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Castle challanged Chuck Norris to a duel - He WON!

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I met Chuck Norris once.

Once.

(Thanks, folks!)

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I am finally over my beef about the Em Nerf becase Castle actualy Apologized! (that ANd he responded toa pm where i was overing programing advice and he didn't just blow off my thoughts outright...though i stick think they has to be a way to prevent the death cast bug, just wish i knew more about how the system records Death. If i knew a bit more about how it registers pc and NPCV death im sure i coudl figure out how to kil the Death Cast Bug)

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actually its no longer auto hit...

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It's not auto-hit in Player-versus-Player, true, but you still can't slot Accuracy Enhancement anyways.

PvE it's auto-hit.

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then its buggy i am lucky to get 3, let alne 5, since issue 5 went live

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I was surprised that you only had 1 slot in Taunt. I usually run 4 slots (Acc, 2 x Taunt Duration, 1 x Rech).

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Taunt is auto-hit, it doesn't need Accuracy. It accepted the Enhancement? If so, I think that's a bug.

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actually its no longer auto hit...

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Normally I hate the Ice and Stone SFX. Why make a nice costume and end up looking like a Devouring Earth or an Ice Cube? Ick

[/ QUOTE ]Preach it!!

<.<
>.>

ahem... sorry about that, just had to agree. I have a Stone Tank, and wish there was a way I could personalize that to just look like the original stone armor you get (concept toon of an ex-outcast brick turned into a werewolf-thing and became a hero)

Please return to your regularly scheduled thread, thank you.

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You think Stone is bad NOW? At least you're no longer a walking poo.

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Walking Poo qas integral to one of my concepts...specifly traped and encased in magma and earth....

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There was no 'might be' about it.

Sure there was but it happened and that's all that matters.

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All playtests, QA checks, difficulty adjustments and balances have been done with Enhancement Diversification in mind since March 2005.

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It was planned and implemented (ED) and led to a huge explosion here on the boards

The boards just want to explode. It is their purpose. It is so on any internet gaming forum.

My how history gets a bit twisted with the passage of time.

Statesman himself said that ED wasn't a done deal at the time of I5. Your quote doesn't actually disprove this fact. It does prove that they've had the system in place for quite some time and could have possibly pushed it out much earlier if they saw it as needed immediately.

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Here's the issue.

All developer playtests, QA checks, difficulty adjustments and balances have been done with Enhancement Diversification in mind since 2005.

But all player testing, player feedback, player comments prior to the announcement of ED was done without Enhancement Diversification. There had been NOTHING to suggest that it was going to be changed. And many of the complaints for players (particularly in terms of recharge times) were answered by rednames pointing out the effect of the change with permahasten and six slotting.

ED may not have been a "done deal" but if we are to trust the first statement it was pretty clearly something they were considering. They knew we were evaluating I4 and I5 without ED in mind.

Had it been presented as something to consider during testing, as something they are testing internally and may happen, at the very least the feedback would have been different.

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AND all the DEVs Issue 5 builds to show you were stil workable (liek oh statsman stating a FF defender get 55% buffs running 6 sloted) PURPOSLY ignored ED as a factor

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Sorry, but you're just being obstinate here. ED is incorporated into the design of CoV, meaning that to roll back ED all of CoV would have to be redone.

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BUZZ Wrong, see i was in CoV Beta...ED was added in th e weak before it went live...it was /never/ intergrated with it

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Yes, the devs thought of ED on that day, coded it all up and put it in the game. The point he was making is that the CoV ATs were designed with the knowledge that ED was going to happen.

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and by that logic "issue 5" was thoug of with ED in mind...EXCEPT

the devs said outright that if you 6 sloted defensive powers your be fine....

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Sorry, but you're just being obstinate here. ED is incorporated into the design of CoV, meaning that to roll back ED all of CoV would have to be redone.

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BUZZ Wrong, see i was in CoV Beta...ED was added in th e weak before it went live...it was /never/ intergrated with it

Please tell me since WHEN did a single 8 man spawn - half th map? :P

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give it ups Satan its clear to EVERYONE that your just a poor clone of me...that why things you say or i Say are interchamble to the other.

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Shhh...if Marvel hears you, they'll sue for "clone wars" infringement...even though they try to pretend they never did that sad excuse for a storyline...

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Actuall they retconed thet retcon of the clone wars.

spidy: Oh No. I am NOT joining the Champions.
Cap america: It means, my friend, that i have the athority to assemble any TEAM i see fit to go on any MISSION i see fit.
spidy: Yeah? I have clones.

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Remberfolks

SiconOfSatan Lord of the Flame Wars
Neko_Lurker Lord of the Typos

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LOL!! I'm gonna put that in my signature! The typo in my name is a beautiful touch, by the way.

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Nothing else would be tolerated by the citizen of Typo-pia

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they rollback the ED patch, they would have to code the enhancement display stuff back in.



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Leave it out. I'd rather have things be guesswork, but not nerfed, than nerfed, and obviously so.


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its still guess work sicon, oh sur e its stright forward on dammage but thing lie kdefense are still guess work

that 57.7% on those defenses are real 57.7% of the base among (30% for say TI so your looking at +57.7% of 30%) whihc actually HURTS new players who see their dmg is doing 50% more and their defense is 50% beter so they expect to take 50% less damamge not roughy 15% less

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Granted. I just liked the pithiness of my response, since brevity is, I've been told, the soul of wit. Given the average length of my posts, not to mention the complaints about the sheer number of them in a row, I thought I might be wise to use a little more brevity. If that's not a paradox.


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but im not limited, how many replies do i have here...12 in a row i think

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they rollback the ED patch, they would have to code the enhancement display stuff back in.



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Leave it out. I'd rather have things be guesswork, but not nerfed, than nerfed, and obviously so.


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Just saying there was something added with ED. You were the one saying ED added nothing.

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Actually, no, that wasn't me. That was a different poster. I was responding to your response.

But let me say it now...ED added NOTHING. The "indicator" numbers are completely separate code implemented in TANDEM with the implementation of ED, as well as in tandem with everything ELSE that was implemented in I6 with the release of CoV.

So, no, ED doesn't have anything to do with that. But my point is, even if it WAS an "if this - then that" gain/loss, I'd be fine with it. As would, I think, everyone else who hates ED.

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give it ups Satan its clear to EVERYONE that your just a poor clone of me...that why things you say or i Say are interchamble to the other.

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P.S. I was just re-reading this after posting it, and I noticed something: You must suck at this game. That's the only way you could die enough to stay in a level long enough to get enough drops to have enough money to do what you said you did.

Yup, it all makes sense now. You suck. Heh. Sorry it took me so long to realize it. Guess you're not a liar after all.


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Umm ... so deaths mean someone sucks? Death *IS* suppose to be a learning tool. Anyway, I die ... and frankly i've gotten the first death badge -- and cause I *suck* cause i push a character to the breaking point. I find every weakness and strength.

Hell, i've fought and just about died an somehow got some good hits and survived. Then, again, i forgot i'm suppose to suck cause i die.

come on. find something else to be lame about.

You probably got PL'd or something, dropped on your head, and skipped the deaths. Who knows. but there is nothing wrong with dieing. so give out over it.

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The post to Xeroshadow is in the context of a long-standing feud between the two of us on these boards. Specifically, it refers to his claims to not need the influence/infamy gained in defeating foes/missions in order to fully and effectively enhance one's character. And the "you suck" comment is in DIRECT response to him saying something similar to me.

I can understand you feeling defensive about it, but honestly, it's not a general condemnation of dying in-game. In fact, one of my ongoing themes in this thread is that, even BEFORE the I5/I6 nerfs, death was not avoidable even for the so-called "uber" class and powerset, the inv/ tank.

So calm down, Beavis.

Finally, before you start throwing around accusations about me being PL'ed, you might want to check my post history, specifically in the consolidated PL thread. I am, or was, one of the most vociferous (and some would say venomous) opponents of PL'ing, even to the point of calling it a way of "cheating", and suggesting that broadcasting for PL's should be a bannable offense.

I'm gonna let you off with a warning on this one. But for future reference, you take potshots at me at your own risk. I have little to do at work overnight, and researching your post history would, I'm sure, give me plenty of ammo with which to fling insults back at you, baseless or not. I don't LIKE flame wars, but I don't pretend to be above them.

Alrighty then, have a good day, and drive safely, sir. These roads can be treacherous.

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Remberfolks

SiconOfSatan Lord of the Flame Wars
Neko_Lurker Lord of the Typos

Phew...ok i think i found all the points i want to reply too....

:returns to writing novel:

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ME on the other hand ive always proposed tanks shoud not only be tough but hit hardbut have a horible, horible rechnage on every attack.

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I agree with this whole-heartedly. When they hit you, it should hurt worse than any other attacker (with the possible exception of blasters), but they should have a much slower attack rate, either because they are so big, so dense, so dumb, generally slow, or because they are very, very careful about WHO they are hitting, and how hard, so as to avoid killing an innocent bystander, a teammate, or even a villain (since tanks are heroes, after all).

And thanks for the backup, Neko.

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Us insane twinks have to stick together, me id give tankes back I5 s/l defense for everthing (self capable at 60-70% seems fair and leaves room for defenders)

up their dammage to KO blow-nuke level and rechanges likes those seen in controlers now.

their have a pain gun but liek a Real tank be slow to fire. And lie ka real tank id also give them a lower base accuracy.

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thats a falacy, yes their are other people on line but answer me this, in the real world when you are say commuting to work in your car you consider that a team activity when your the only one in the car?

No man is an island. Even if you are alone in your car there are other people on the road who could slow you down or in a worst case scenario an accident might occur which would cause a traffic slowdown for everyone. Like it or not your actions do not occur in a vaccuum.

i want you to provide in C++ the code scrip to account for gravity and groud collision. GO

I'll make you a deal. I'll try this if you can manage to make a typo free post?

Um actually since ED doesnt ADD anything it cant BREAK anything by remving it except leting folks 6 slot powers again.

Removing it breaks inter-AT balance between CoH and CoV. Removing it would also break defenders once more because players would be hitting their caps. Altering the caps in anyway would unbalance us versus the environment.

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Oh the precious Defenders will not be wanted again oh what will we do???? I was never not wanted i always got a team and 80% of my friends list were + level tankers. I love my defenders and ED cut my damage output in addition to changing the specialty of my builds. Besides only the best builds come close to self capping and as far as i can see not that many have that good of a build. You do see them but my exp has been most people are not Min Max experts.

I think ED had more to do with PVP, COV character inherent damage bonuses getting out of hand and clamping down on Protective powers, Hasten and Stamina than anything else.

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my FF defender mad a living being complety unable to solo, i had so many buff that i made teams into gods (their own words) at the EXPENSE of beable able to protect myself, my dmg output was so poor that out level missions vs -23 foes took a hour to complete!

Then along came I5 and ED and...my dmag output is stil lshit and my defenses are...he same as a balanced defender. but my dammage hasnt inproved any.

My take was in the exact same situation, when i respeced my tank for ED knwo what i found? she played EXACTLY liek my brute - fury.

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i want you to provide in C++ the code scrip to account for gravity and groud collision. GO

I'll make you a deal. I'll try this if you can manage to make a typo free post?

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This is a Typo Free Post. Oh BTW, I've coded BOTH in Dark Basic as well as bones animation and a basic random action AI.

And a 3d environment to run around in....

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I saw lvl 50's die all the time. You just have to push your limits. That's what makes the game "fun". And it was fully possible to do that pre-I5. To claim it wasn't is to be flatly dishonest.

I saw level 50 dies frequently. They are called blasters. Meanwhile I'd watch a tank herd upwards of 150 foes at +4 to his level and watch his health bar not move and scrappers do the same. A character shouldn't have to go to rediculous extremes to face a threateing situation in a video game based around combat.

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and yet said problem coudl be fixed by...
limited taunt (oh waith they did that)
limiting aoes (oh wiat they did that)
puting a agro cap im place (they did that)
inproving the AI (they claim their doing that)
or
nerfing defenses...

they did all 5 when any one would have gotten the desired result

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I was never not wanted i always got a team and 80% of my friends list were + level tankers.

I've always been wanted. Often it was nothing more than padding or bridging though.

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back in I4 my FF defender was BEGGED FOR, peiole with hit me up on global jsut to ask me to pring out my defender, i got tesll on my scrapper"hey can ya get pink we coudl really use her"