Captain Fabulous

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The vast majority will choose the first mission, where you were fighting large quantities of weaker foes.

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I can make up statistics or sweeping generalizations too. That doesn't make them truth.

I don't share your opinion on this, and neither do most of the people I play with. Doing what you describe would bore me and many of them, because there's no challenge in it.

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Have you actually tried it? If not, then your opinion is based solely upon supposition. You'd be surprised how quickly a large mob of -3s can beat down most toons.

Now granted, my sample size is quite small, perhaps about 10 people (none of which were friends of mine or even people I'd previously met), but every single one of them admitted the larger-mob mission was more fun to them.

You and your friends might disagree (and again, I don't think you can really have a valid opinion until you've actually tried it) but then again, you and all your friends aren't a good sample size either

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Not true. Challenge can come in numbers, which I have said many times over the years is the first and foremost way the devs could turn this game around.

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The devs have addressed this in the past, when talking about the GDN in I5. People suggested increasing the number of foes instead of nerfing defenses. The response was that the game doesn't handle it well. Imagine an 8-person team where there were 10 foes per player per spawn. The problem isn't the servers but the game engine, and interactions of that with people's client computers. As mentioned, some people can't play with masterminds due to the lag it causes them.

Sure, maybe they could spend time working on the core graphics engine, or the core game event loop which we see slow down at events like Hamidon raids. The question is one of cost/benefit. Is that really going to bring back enough people to bother with the time and effort? It seems to me we might already have the answer to that.

Beyond that, there are balance problems with large numbers of minor foes. AoE powers (and thus AoE powersets) gain a trenendous economy in such situations. Single-target attacks suffer from overkill, making them involve much wasted endurance, while AoEs can apply that overkill to their AoE limit in foes, making them vastly more efficient in both endurance and time. This would almost certainly spill over into other mechanics, such as the current drop rate mechanics of Inventions, which are at least partly on a per-mob basis. People would be farming these "en masse" missions within minutes of their arrival. All things are possible with time and money, but that example alone tells me there would need to be other under-the-hood changes to allow a slider setting like this.

Personally, I can tell you I wouldn't find enjoyable a setting that surrounded me with gimpy foes. As true to classic comic imagery as that is, I don't do that now. I play on the settings that give me fewer, higher-level foes, because I enjoy the harder one-on-one fighting, even consistently from minion to minion, more than I do mowing faster through large numbers of foes. My opinion on this in no way invalidates yours, but I present it to show that your ideas of what would make the game better aren't universal. Could your ideas be a good game? Of course, and maybe better than CoH ... assuming a fresh start with those goals in mind. My perspective is rooted in the history of what this game is now and how it got here, mixed with some of the realities the devs have explained to us about limitations and their own time constraints.

Don't take my perspective, which I consider to be something of a realist's viewpoint, to mean I am a dev fanboy. I'm not. I don't hate the devs, and I don't think they ruined the game. But there are past decisions and new ones with I9 that I despise and don't feel are justified. I think some powersets are still unnecessarily weak. I do think this game can be better than it is. I just don't happen to think that mass solo combat is required for it to be better. I don't think a repeal of the GDN or even ED, which I disliked intensely, are called for.

Nor do I think that making Hamidon able to blast through "Untouchable" status is a sign of a coming nerfpocalypse. Time will tell.

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All good points. But like any global change everything would need to be adjusted to get the balance just right, including handling AOE damage and drop rates.

And my suggestion doesn't in any way mean disposing of the difficulty slider. There is no reason there can't be more settings that will customize the game to everyone's liking. If you prefer less, but harder foes, there could be a difficulty setting that gives just bosses, as an example.

Will a change like this necessarily bring back those that left and/or new players? Personally I think it would, but that's just my opinion. Unfortunately we'll never know cause I doubt it'll ever see the light of day.

I guess one way to test for this would be Celestial's idea of adding another difficulty level that spawns larger quantities at lower levels (making up for the xp differential in say, a larger mission bonus), and gauge playerbase response. But again, I just don't see it ever happening.

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Now let's say for [censored] and giggles we take all the common baddies in the game and reduce their health, damage, and XP by 80%. And then we increase the spawn sizes by a factor 5. So now, instead of facing spawns of 3-5, you're facing 15-25. Holy Full House Batman! Now you actually have something *worthy* to fight.

The tank/brute/scrapper plows thru them like a bulldozer, foes flying everywhere, constantly surrounding you, trying to overpower you, but they are but flies and you rip thru them like a hot knife thru butter. You're taking some damage here and there, but nothing you can't handle, and you're definitely working up a sweat cause you're just cycling thru powers non-stop. Mmmm quite satisfying.

The defender is momentarily daunted, but with their array of buffs and debuffs they too find it highly satisfying watching 2 dozen baddies bounce up and down on a tar patch, or flee from a chilling freezing rain, all the while being picked off one by one. Yes indeed, so very satisfying.

And can you just IMAGINE the sheer joy a team of 8 would be like this??? I get goose-pimply just thinking about it.

NOW you feel like a super hero.

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I would truely love to have that at times as well. And I think the devs would like to have something like but, but I beleive that design considerations prevent it. A lo of players on the CoV side of the house take a bit hit in framerate if too many MMs are on the team. You hope for the bestest systems to run your game, but you have to design for more modest systems. I think that the 3 minions = 1 Heroes is partially in reponse to that design contraint.

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I think this could be achieved by simply adding another "difficulty setting" where enemy number would be three times more than normal but conning green minions and blue lieutenants. Some of my characters would really enjoy such a setting.

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That sounds like a fun idea

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It's funny you mention this, cause here's a little test I give to people who doubt my above suggestion.

Put together a team of 4 people, making sure at least 1 of them is 4 levels below you. Have that person get a scanner mish and put the difficulty up one notch to increase spawn size. Now everyone enter the mission, but stay at the door and do not fight. All except you, that is. Now go thru the mission and defeat everything that moves.

After you've done this, leave the team and get your own solo scanner mish and set the difficulty to whatever you like. Now go do it, defeating anything that moves.

When you've finished that, stop and take a moment to reflect, and ask yourself, which mission was more FUN?

The vast majority will choose the first mission, where you were fighting large quantities of weaker foes.

The sad part, unfortunately, which is invariably tied to my point, is that the "fun" mission will net you about 1/5th the XP as the "not really fun, just moderately entertaining" mission.

So why is it that to really have fun playing this game I need a posse of 3 other people fighting foes that are 3-4 levels below me for 1/5th the XP I'd normally get??

If that's not broken, god help us...

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It makes plenty of sense to me.

Hami is a self-engineered, mutating macroorganism.

He was attacked by raiders led by perma-phase shifted targetters for a while, and he's been dealing with illusionary armies for a couple years now.

It makes perfect sense to me that he has now mutated himself to be able to hit things that are phased out of normal space and to be able to destroy illusions.

The new raid is easier to organize, easier to complete, and impossible to 'fail' (in the sense that it previously could be failed). I don't see what people are complaining about regarding the raid, and I really don't see Phase Shift as useless.

I don't see it as so useful that I would take the Concealment pool just to get it. However, if I was already taking Stealth and Invis (or Grant Invis) I would strongly consider working it in. I know from experience on my Warshade that it can be very useful in a variety of situations.

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Well that's the first thing we've agreed upon this entire thread

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How could this game be better?

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I said it a few pages back, here and here

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i'll take a page from the same people trying to dismiss people like you and I:

You're wasting your time trying to point out what you percieve as flaws in the game. Some people are just so enamored with what the devs do everything they do is gold and they can never do wrong. They think anyone with a complaint is just a whiner who should get over it or just cancel their account.

See what I did there? I can be dismissive too.

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I have found that when people refuse to debate the merits of the argument at hand and stoop to personal or character attacks, it basically means you've hit the nail on the head and they have nothing that can rebuke your discussion.

So don't see it as being nasty or dismissive, just see it as a childish way of acknowledging they just lost the debate.

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How could this game be better?

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I said it a few pages back, here and here

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I don't have a problem with Hami being more powerful than players. I have a problem with minions, LTs and bosses being more powerful than most players, with similar powers that are many times stronger than ours, with absolutely none of the limitations or restrictions that we players have. It's hard to feel super when the baddies are always more powerful than you are, can do things you can't do, can use your own powers better than you can, and can consistently smack you around with abilities you can't mitigate.

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The big problem w/ computer games in general, IHMO, is the limited ability of game AIs. To be a challenge to a human players foes need to be more power then the players. Or they need to cheat in some way.

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What minions do you have a problem with? Seriously- I know very few Lt's that give me a problem, and a few bosses, but nothing I can't out and out beat in the end. I know the standard it 3 white minions to one hero but really- I can take about 3 red minions at one time (dependant on type) a few red LT's and probably one for one on a red/purple boss. This game has a great "Super feel" to it- yeah, I know we used to be alot ALOT more powerful, and I am lucky I never had a character high enough to get hit hard by ED- but now jeepers running on Unyeilding (solo) with my blaster and there is nothin' she hasn't been able to beat.

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Yes, but how much time do you spend between spawns licking your wounds (unless of course you took aid self)? You might be able to kill them quickly, but at the same time they're gonna take a nice chunk outta you that you have no way of mitigating other than inspirations or time.

And what about a defender, who does only 75% of the damage you do? I have an empathy/sonic defender that even with 3 SO slotted attacks has trouble killing +1 mobs in a timely fashion. Seriously, it can take upwards of 8-10 attacks to kill a +1 LT. Buffs and debuffs can help, but you certainly don't feel heroic, you feel like you're struggling laboriously to slave thru it.

With all the recharge time nerfs it makes it difficult for most defenders and some trollers to solo, as their really good powers can't be used for every mob. It's a whole lotta frustration for very little XP.

And let's not forget the villain side. Stalkers have a hard time soloing as they don't have a lot of HPs and don't do a lot of damage other than the assassin's strike. A lot of dominators have trouble soloing too, especially at lower levels. MMs are kinda in the middle -- they do ok as long as the baddies aren't too high or plentiful.

And like I said, getting thru it is only half the battle. If it's so hard and slow it feels like work, then it's hardly worth it.

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Honestly, I don't spend that much time licking my wounds- I don't have a problem taking some damage, I don't know how a defender is gonna do against what I go against because I don't know how a defender plays (yet).

What powers have had their recharge time nerfed? Are you talking about "perma-hasten"? Never had so I never needed it so I don't miss it.

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I meant powers like the empathy auras, freezing rain, phantom army, etc., powers that pre-ED you could perma (some with hasten, some without) that you can't any longer.

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And as for Stalkers? Sorry, my lvl 37 has absolutely NO problem what so ever burning through missions- with or with out needing AS up at every mob.

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Well my lvl 16 gets his [censored] kicked all the time, so I can only guess they get better with time and lots and lots of slots.

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Sorry this game is so tough for you, and so unliked- why do you play if it bothers you so much?

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The game isn't tough for me, but many times it's not fun either. And I continue to play it because despite it's failings it still manages to remain moderately entertaining to some degree, at least enough for me to keep playing and paying. And again, it's not like there's another, better, super hero MMO I could be playing.

But I'm also haunted by what once was, and the frustrations of knowing how good this game COULD be, but never WILL be.

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Willy is entitled to his opinion as are you.

My friends and I will continue locking down spawns up to about +4, and happily wasting them before the hold wears off.

Anyone who wants to get as far as Phase Shift will make great use of it, anyone who didn't want Stealth or Invis in the first place won't worry about it.

I think you guys are missing the point of these powers. Yes, AoE holds can be thought of as an Oh [censored] power. But they're one of the best Oh [censored] powers in the whole game. It's not like controllers are having trouble controlling when their aoe hold is down. Not any that I play with anyway.

The attitude that a power is useless if it isn't available every spawn or two, or doesnt last a minute, or ever has accuracy problems is really shortsighted, imo, and strikes me as foolish in the extreme.

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No my friend, I think it's you who is missing the point.

I have 3 trollers. One is grav/rad, one is fire/kin, and one is illusion/kin. And I have a good friend with an ice/empathy.

Setting aside 2 power slots for travel means I have to give up 3 powers in my primary and/or secondary to accommodate the fitness pool. Knowing that most of the powers in all these sets are good and useful, which powers do I give up? Dimension shift and group invis come to mind. I'm also not a big fan of repel or choking cloud. Ok, that's 2. What other kinetics power am I supposed to give up? Siphon power? Siphon Speed? Speed Boost? All of them are much more valuable to my team than my "at best 30 second every 2 minute" hold. What other rad power do I skip? The debuffs? Accelerated metabolism? Ok, maybe you could skip the rez -- but it would be an even steven as far as I'm concerned. But fallout with the rez is a really nice combo, especially if it's your tank or scrapper that falls. Reduces downtown to zero, which is invaluable.

Now on the fire troller there are a lot of skippable powers IMO. Smoke ain't worth it, and neither is bonfire. But with flashfire and fire cages being 10x better than cinders ever could, why bother with it? So with all the extra slots I took assault and tactics. Not only does it benefit me, it also helps the whole team, including the pets, 100% of the time. 3 slotting tactics for tohit is good enough for you to get by with only 1 accy in most powers (2 for flashfire and fire cages), so the extra slots are free, so to speak.

So the point you're missing is that although the holds might indeed be useful when they're up, there usually are a lot better power choices you can take that are either toggles and are on 100% of the time, or are buffs/debuffs that will ultimately have a greater positive impact on the team compared to that short duration, long recharge hold.

And seriously, why would you prefer to take a power that "isn't available every spawn or two, doesn't last a minute, and has accuracy problems" when you can take another power that does damage, helps the team do more damage, has a short recharge time, lasts a minute or longer, and has no accuracy problem? It's such a no-brainer for me, I simply cannot understand why you both don't see it.

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Now let's say for [censored] and giggles we take all the common baddies in the game and reduce their health, damage, and XP by 80%. And then we increase the spawn sizes by a factor 5. So now, instead of facing spawns of 3-5, you're facing 15-25. Holy Full House Batman! Now you actually have something *worthy* to fight.

The tank/brute/scrapper plows thru them like a bulldozer, foes flying everywhere, constantly surrounding you, trying to overpower you, but they are but flies and you rip thru them like a hot knife thru butter. You're taking some damage here and there, but nothing you can't handle, and you're definitely working up a sweat cause you're just cycling thru powers non-stop. Mmmm quite satisfying.

The defender is momentarily daunted, but with their array of buffs and debuffs they too find it highly satisfying watching 2 dozen baddies bounce up and down on a tar patch, or flee from a chilling freezing rain, all the while being picked off one by one. Yes indeed, so very satisfying.

And can you just IMAGINE the sheer joy a team of 8 would be like this??? I get goose-pimply just thinking about it.

NOW you feel like a super hero.

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I would truely love to have that at times as well. And I think the devs would like to have something like but, but I beleive that design considerations prevent it. A lo of players on the CoV side of the house take a bit hit in framerate if too many MMs are on the team. You hope for the bestest systems to run your game, but you have to design for more modest systems. I think that the 3 minions = 1 Heroes is partially in reponse to that design contraint.

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But still, it's been 3 years since launch. You can't tell me that in all this time they can't find some way to upgrade their servers. I mean, look at what was top of the line 3 years ago compared to now, it's like comparing a honda civic to a jaguar.

And if that's what it's gonna take to make this game great, I say drop whatever the hell you're doing AND GET IT DONE!! Cause all the new content/powersets/inventions/end game in the world don't mean squat if the game isn't outrageously fun and addictive to play. And right now, it just ain't.

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well willy, I repeat: I think you slotted your hold wrong.

2 acc, 3 hold, 1 recharge

add hasten

that hold is up every 2 minutes, lasts nearly 30 seconds, and will hit most things that don't have Defense powers. Eat a yellow first if you're really concerned. Therefore I call BS on your hyperbole. Furthermore, the controllers I play with use theirs almost every time it's up. Considering the abundance of /Kin and /Rad controllers, many of them have it available considerably more than every 2 minutes.

as for PS: the cost of the prereq powers is irrelevant in a discussion of how well the power itself works.

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Sorry man, totally disagree. So now I'm supposed to take a power that does no damage, drop 5 slots in it and take another power, drop 3 slots in it, so I can get a 30 second (against even minions) no damage hold every 2 minutes. And have a tray full of yellows to boot.

Maybe it depends upon what kind of troller you are. Some sets are just better built than others. But personally, I just wouldn't take it unless I had absolutely nothing better to take. And even then I would just drop 1 or 2 acc in it and use it as an oh crap power. If you're a fire troller, you'd just much better use outta flashfire and hotfeet. Ice trollers live and die by their ice slick, and if you like to solo, the sleep works nicely. Gravity trollers are trickier, but with judicious use of wormhole and your aoe immobilize you can pretty much lock things down for much longer than you ever could with the hold. Illusion is the troller [censored] child, and the only set I can see trying to invest in the aoe hold simply as an additional means of establishing containment. But otherwise, why? You have pets up the ying yang, let em do their thing. And mind trollers, well, don't have a lot of experience there, but I'm thinking you get a lot more usage outta a nicely slotted telekinesis than you would on your aoe hold. And like ice, if you're into soloing, the aoe sleep works nicely too, and doesn't require a lot of slots to be effective.

But again, just my opinion. If you like the aoe hold, then take it.

And how can you say that prerequisites have no bearing on the usefulness of a power? That's crap, and you know it. Now if you have tons of unused power slots and throwing away 2 of them is of no consequence to you (or if there was no limitation on the number of powers we could take), then yeah, the point would be moot.

But the reality is that most builds are too damned tight to give up 2 powers simply for the sake of getting a 30 second intangibility power with limited usefulness. I mean, it's bad enough we do it for stamina, but you can't compare the usefulness of the two. If the prerequites themselves had some kind of legitimate value, then I could almost acknowledge it being worth it. But they don't. There is nothing worse than taking a power that 90% of the time you've got it on it's suppressed in one way or another. What's the frakkin point?

But... my illusion troller does have superior invisibility. It has its limited uses (mostly while traveling), doesn't require any slotting, and has no prerequisites. I deemed it worthy. But would I waste a power slot on stealth or invis other so I could get invisibility? Oh hell no. The usefulness isn't worth whatever power I'd have to give up.

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Hmmm... 6 slots... well, since the AOE hold has a .8 accuracy it needs at least 3 accuracy SOs if you actually intend to hit anything.

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theres your problem.

2/2/2

I use this on +3 guys, hit about 95% of the time, lock them down for about 17 seconds, recharge, a little over 3 mins.

Solo, the power sits useless in my tray, I have an AoE sleep that I use for that, but in teams, I use it very frequently.

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Sorry dude, there is no way you're hitting +3s 95% of the time with only 2 SO accuracies in your AOE hold. At best you'd hit around 75% of them. Math doesn't lie.

So, instead of catching 16 for 16 seconds every 4 minutes (for +3s) or 8 seconds every 2 minutes your slotting catches 12 for 13 seconds every 2.5 minutes.

Even if you were getting 17 seconds every 3 minutes, does that still seem worth 5 slots to you? Sure doesn't to me. Whole lotta slots for a whole lotta nothing.

But to each their own, I guess. If you like it and find it useful, more power to ya.

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I don't have a problem with Hami being more powerful than players. I have a problem with minions, LTs and bosses being more powerful than most players, with similar powers that are many times stronger than ours, with absolutely none of the limitations or restrictions that we players have. It's hard to feel super when the baddies are always more powerful than you are, can do things you can't do, can use your own powers better than you can, and can consistently smack you around with abilities you can't mitigate.

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The big problem w/ computer games in general, IHMO, is the limited ability of game AIs. To be a challenge to a human players foes need to be more power then the players. Or they need to cheat in some way.

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What minions do you have a problem with? Seriously- I know very few Lt's that give me a problem, and a few bosses, but nothing I can't out and out beat in the end. I know the standard it 3 white minions to one hero but really- I can take about 3 red minions at one time (dependant on type) a few red LT's and probably one for one on a red/purple boss. This game has a great "Super feel" to it- yeah, I know we used to be alot ALOT more powerful, and I am lucky I never had a character high enough to get hit hard by ED- but now jeepers running on Unyeilding (solo) with my blaster and there is nothin' she hasn't been able to beat.

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Yes, but how much time do you spend between spawns licking your wounds (unless of course you took aid self)? You might be able to kill them quickly, but at the same time they're gonna take a nice chunk outta you that you have no way of mitigating other than inspirations or time.

And what about a defender, who does only 75% of the damage you do? I have an empathy/sonic defender that even with 3 SO slotted attacks has trouble killing +1 mobs in a timely fashion. Seriously, it can take upwards of 8-10 attacks to kill a +1 LT. Buffs and debuffs can help, but you certainly don't feel heroic, you feel like you're struggling laboriously to slave thru it.

With all the recharge time nerfs it makes it difficult for most defenders and some trollers to solo, as their really good powers can't be used for every mob. It's a whole lotta frustration for very little XP.

And let's not forget the villain side. Stalkers have a hard time soloing as they don't have a lot of HPs and don't do a lot of damage other than the assassin's strike. A lot of dominators have trouble soloing too, especially at lower levels. MMs are kinda in the middle -- they do ok as long as the baddies aren't too high or plentiful.

And like I said, getting thru it is only half the battle. If it's so hard and slow it feels like work, then it's hardly worth it.

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I don't have a problem with Hami being more powerful than players. I have a problem with minions, LTs and bosses being more powerful than most players, with similar powers that are many times stronger than ours, with absolutely none of the limitations or restrictions that we players have. It's hard to feel super when the baddies are always more powerful than you are, can do things you can't do, can use your own powers better than you can, and can consistently smack you around with abilities you can't mitigate.

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The big problem w/ computer games in general, IHMO, is the limited ability of game AIs. To be a challenge to a human players foes need to be more power then the players. Or they need to cheat in some way.

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Not true. Challenge can come in numbers, which I have said many times over the years is the first and foremost way the devs could turn this game around.

Right now, a solo toon gets on average 3-5 foes per spawn depending upon difficulty. And for some ATs like brutes, tanks and scrappers, they can easily plow thru them with little to no effort or downtime. But man, does that get boring really quickly.

On the flip side, weaker characters like defenders usually can make it thru, but the pace is slow and laborious and requires significant downtime to recover health and/or end. Again, this gets boring very quickly, and is just not fun.

In both cases you never get to feel really "super" cause you're either under-challenged or over-challenged.

Now let's say for [censored] and giggles we take all the common baddies in the game and reduce their health, damage, and XP by 80%. And then we increase the spawn sizes by a factor 5. So now, instead of facing spawns of 3-5, you're facing 15-25. Holy Full House Batman! Now you actually have something *worthy* to fight.

The tank/brute/scrapper plows thru them like a bulldozer, foes flying everywhere, constantly surrounding you, trying to overpower you, but they are but flies and you rip thru them like a hot knife thru butter. You're taking some damage here and there, but nothing you can't handle, and you're definitely working up a sweat cause you're just cycling thru powers non-stop. Mmmm quite satisfying.

The defender is momentarily daunted, but with their array of buffs and debuffs they too find it highly satisfying watching 2 dozen baddies bounce up and down on a tar patch, or flee from a chilling freezing rain, all the while being picked off one by one. Yes indeed, so very satisfying.

And can you just IMAGINE the sheer joy a team of 8 would be like this??? I get goose-pimply just thinking about it.

NOW you feel like a super hero.

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Willy...it sounds to me like you didn't slot your aoe hold well at all, not to mention that it can hit up to 16, not 10. You think it's utterly useless? I know a lot of controllers who think otherwise.

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Hmmm... 6 slots... well, since the AOE hold has a .8 accuracy it needs at least 3 accuracy SOs if you actually intend to hit anything. That leaves 3 more slots. Now if I slot them with holds I can hold +2 minions for roughly 20 seconds (about 15 for +2 LTs), do no damage, and not be able to use the power again for 4 minutes. Higher level foes will be held for shorter periods of time, lower level slightly longer.

Now if I go for recharges instead of holds, I get about half the mez time (10 seconds for +2 minions, 7.5 for +2 LTs), but get the use the power about every 2 minutes.

I'm sorry, but either way doesn't really seem worth 5 slots that can be better used elsewhere, either for damage, recharge, or end redux. 10 seconds every 2 minutes or 20 seconds every 4 minutes? Dude, that's just lame.

And for the record, I play with a lot of trollers and I rarely ever see one use their AOE hold other than in "oh crap" situations, and I know a whole lot of trollers who skip it altogether and take something else more useful.

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Phase Shift powers are useless? My warshade certainly doesnt agree, and since when he uses his he hardly ever uses it for more than 10 seconds, the duration of the Power Pool version should be just fine for accomplishing the exact same goals.

I swear, this thread is filled with people whining because they don't know how to use their own powers effectively.

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Ahhh, but your warshade doesn't need to take 2 other pool powers to get his PS, and yes, that makes a huge difference. So yeah, if people could pick up PS to use as an "oh crap" power, or a "let me get from point A to B unscathed" power, then yeah, it might be worth taking now and again. But to have to give up 2 other powers just to get PS? That's just about as dumb as wasting 5 slots to get a 10 second hold every 2 minutes.

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Once upon a time this game was an all consuming great thing (much like WoW). Now its just a passable distraction, a mild entertainment. No wonder it never realized its commercial marketing potential when the dev mindset is always to destroy the fun as opposed to enhancing it.

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I'm sure WoW is a great game, but I can't imagine that mechanics don't regular get changed there. I doubt it's a perfect utopia. Show me a perfect MMO with 100% player satisfaction, and I'll show you a bridge I have for sale in Brooklyn I know plenty of people who left CoH for WoW, and I know others who left WoW for CoH. To each his own, but don't compare apples to pomegranates.

As for the fun, it's relative. I'm still having fun with the game, because I chose to work past the changes, instead of jumping ship at the first cry of doom.

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These are the people running this show. So unless you can give up and be beaten and just accept the constant hot irons that will inevitably get shoved into your nether regions you should close your account. I came back for personal reasons of my own and because I am one of those people who gave up and accepted that they will never let our fun exceed a certain level.

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Wow... just wow (and not the game, except maybe for you ). Mild exaggerations about pubic mutilation aside, IMHO, changes always happen in MMOs. Wait, let me say that again:

Changes always happen in MMOs.

Anyone who expects content to never change from launch is living in a fantasy. Changes happen because players find ways to interact with the environment tha were never intended. Players find exploits in maps, find ways to abuse systems, find ways to grief fellow players, etc., etc. All the "best" aspects of anonymitous "jerk hacking".

Devs are people, without the gift of divination; they don't see everything that can and will happen when they create games and systems. The one thing about MMOs is that change is constant. Things get fixed, to the satisfaction or dismay of players (depending on who's doing what); get used to change.

I5 was in 2005, almost 18 months ago. It's more than so last year. If you're still bent about I5, get over it. Unlearn what you learned, and stop lamenting a lost Carthage. Re-learn2play.

Here's the real question: who's actually tried the new encounter? Who's complaining just to pretend this is actually an issue?

Lately, I noticed a rash of people who return to the game (not all of them, mind you) who waste no time with non-constructive criticism. They complain about things that happened issues ago with little or no feedback on how to make it better.

Nothing against CuppaJo (we miss ya ), but to finalize, I'll quote one of the current community reps, Ex Libris:

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ya'll want to see some change around here well then you better be willing to put in some muscle not just noise.

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No more strawman arguments about I5 and ED, and using the word nerf 7 times in a post. Try the new Hami before you knock it. If you don't like it after you try it, then by all means, give some constructive criticism. Otherwise, read my sig, and move on.

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Again, you're missing the point, the bigger picture.

Of course all MMOs change and evolve. It's the nature of the beast. And of course not all changes are favorable to the players or are lauded.

And my comparison of CoX to WoW was solely on a level of anticipated gameplay based upon the particular genre of each. No more, no less. They are vastly different games that won't necessarily appeal to everyone.

Nonetheless, WoW captures the feel of its genre dead on. CoX does not. That's the simplest way to say it. And this isn't something that easily affected by patches, changes, power alterations, etc. It's a fundamental structure of the game that is not easily broken. In CoX's case it was, for all intents and purposes, broken from the beginning. Subsequent changes and patches that were supposed to address these problems only managed to make things worse. Which then required more changes. Which again made things worse.

And I'm sorry to disagree with you, but like any evolving entity, if you don't look to the mistakes of the past you're only bound to repeat them. And brother, there's been a whole lotta repeatin' going on.

And as for devs and their choices, let's revisit the current hostage/stealth issue. The problem: certain IO's that grant stealth can be slotted into auto powers, thereby granting the player perma-stealth. This makes soloing hostage missions impossible, as hostages can't see thru stealth, and you have no way of turning off this kind of auto stealth. The devs were then presented with the following player contributed ideas (in no particular order):

1.) Do not allow said IOs to be slotted into auto powers.

2.) Make no change to the system, but alert players of the issue and discourage them from soloing hostage missions.

3.) Temporarily remove said IOs from the game until a better solution is found.

4.) Create a temp power that suppresses an individual player's stealth, allowing the player to complete the hostage mission.

All of these solutions are, IMO, clean and elegant as they address the particular issue without any type of collateral damage. Unfortunately, the devs, in their oh-so-finite wisdom chose option:

5.) Create an AOE stealth debuff field triggered upon obtaining the hostage, that permanently suppresses all stealth and invisibility on the entire team for the duration of the mission, even after the hostage is delivered. This applies for both the non-interactive hostages that can't see thru stealth, as well as for the NPC hostages that aren't affected by stealth and will fight alongside you.

Of course it's quite easy to see why #5 is by far and away the best and most logical choice, and will surely attract Stalkers in droves to any and all hostage missions.

So yes, Ex Libris, we flexed our muscles, came up with 4 logical, clean, and effective solutions, all of which were summarily ignored (without any type of explanation) for a grossly counter-intuitive, overcomplicated, and highly destructive alternative.

So forgive me if I'm just a wee bit wary when I start to hear things like "Hami can now attack thru phase shift" and "Hami can now destroy pets that are supposed to be indestructible." Cause I just have no faith left. What little I once had was all used up by I5.

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Hamidon and the mitos do damage through Phase Shift to prevent Phantom Army and Phase Shift type powers becoming "required" for a raid.

Fictionally, Hamidon evolves. When he's continually defeated using a particular strategy or power he's naturally going to evolve a counter to it. This ability to attack phase-shifted targets is part of that evolution. Why not simply change the AI so it ignores Phantom Army? Because we don't want it to ignore Phantom Army. Using Phantom Army as a diversion is a perfectly sound tactic. We just didn't want PA to be any better than other pets/minions for that purpose.

We've gotten many PMs with similiar laments about defense, resistance, stealth, etc. All of which are reasonable complaints. However, it's simply not what this particular encounter is. As others have pointed out, in order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging.

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When the hell was phase "required" for a raid (aside from way way back and that was stopped in the same time period) this just seems mean and serves no purpose, kinda like stopping all those uber mega overpowered /dev blasters from teleporting their crazy overpowered autoturret about.......

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Yeah, I was trying to figure out the same thing. PS lasts for 30 seconds. You can't do a damned thing while it's on. What exactly are you supposed to accomplish/contribute to a hami raid during that 30 seconds that could potentially make or break it? Color me clueless.

Ditto for Phantom Army. They're only out for what, 90 seconds? They can't be perma'd. And they do virtually no damage as most of it heals back. Even if you had a dozen illusion trollers and a herd of PA you still wouldn't accomplish much other than possibly a minor distraction. And since reports state that Hami continues to attack everything even while taunted, I can't see how 1 PA or 50 PA will make any bit of difference.

Unless of course I'm missing something.

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in order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging

[/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't even say you are steping out of "normal" rules. To do so acknowledges a limitation that simply does not exist. This is a comic book game. Last I checked anything and everything was possible in the world of comics. Hell, Scarlet Witch created an alternate universe were everybody lived none the wiser....then she undid it all. The people that are getting all bent out of shape that Hami is hitting their precious PA, need to remember context under which this game takes place....limitless.

I emphatically salute the devs for remembering that. I think it is an excellent precedent on their part to make aspects of the game responsive to the players themselves. I think they need to take this a step farther. Make the AI's far more sensitive to what powers are being used against them. Allow them to see that they are constantly being held and let them start recruiting/training/spawning/hiring mob types which can protect them from holds. Hell, give mobs a way to adapt to stone tanks.

Obviously the bad guys should have a limit as to how much they can adapt and they shouldn't be able to cover all their holes at the same time, but it think this is one very immersive way to improve the AI.

Bravo. Compared to other games, I've consistently been impressed with the overall quality of decisions that Cryptic has made. I will gladly invest in any new games you guys come out with.

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Ok, the day that my controller can break all the rules and use his AOE hold to mez an entire map for 30 minutes is the day I will agree with this nonsense. Cause right now the "rules" limit him to 10 foes for 10 seconds every 6 minutes. How quaint. Utterly useless. But quaint nonetheless.

The simple point is that if foes can break the rules, then we should be able to break the rules too. But we can't even come close. Wanna make the foes smarter. I'm all for it. You want them to call in backup depending upon what they're fighting. Sounds like a great idea.

You want to start having them firing off untyped damage attacks that ignore all defense and resistances, have unbreakable mez protection, impenetrable shields they can attack thru, unlimited endurance, 100% debuff resistance in addition to attacks that drain endurance, stop health and end recovery, debuff healing, prevent powers from recharging, and be able to destroy that which is clearly labeled as "indestructible", then my friend, we have a SERIOUS problem. This would be a game that, IMO, virtually no one but you would want to play.

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So...I questioned your statement that a power is useless because a) ONE monster in the ENTIRE GAME can shoot through it and b) it has a 30 second timer, and you responded with that much bile? Wow.

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Because now that Hami has "adapted" this ability, the door is wide open for other foes to magically "adapt" this ability. What's to stop the devs from giving giant monsters, Lusca, the Ghost of Scrapyard, any/all of the signature heroes and villains, or any number of zone monsters and AVs the ability to ignore phase shift? In a single word: nothing. And the rationale? "Well, they adapted like all living organisms do."

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Yeah, they could do that.

They can do anything they damn well want, ultimately.

I don't see them doing that for non-endgame content, because I think it would be stupid.

You may thing Hamidon's design is stupid. I don't, for reasons stated. If things that poke through phase shift and hibernate start showing up in door missions then I'll be on the bandwagon with you.

Simply because they did it in this particular case doesn't mean they're dense enough to do it everywhere.

Personally, I think claims that the new Hamidon is harder are a crock. The new Hamidon reqiuires greater coordination and active participation. If you were there to put powers on auto, then yeah, the new raid is harder for you. I always participated and paid attention at raids, meaning I was one of the people enabling all the akf-ers to get their HO. Nothing much changes for me in the new raid, except perhaps that I will die more often.

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Ok, but com'n Uber, how many times have we seen this happen before? They start by one little change in only one place. "Well, it's the big bad of the end-game, so yeah, he should break all the rules". Then, when a new zone or TF is created with a new AV who just happens to have the ability to attack thru PS and destroy "indestructible" pets, we get "well, this is just one sole AV who's unique". And then of course it's not long before it trickles down to EBs and bosses across every major mob type.

And maybe now it's just phase shift and phantom army. Well then what's next? With the arrival of IOs and the particular problem with hostage missions, what did the devs decide to do? Did they just fix the particular problem in one of a number of suggested ways? Noooooo, they crafted a game-wide stealth debuff system that completely nerfs an entire AT and an entire class of already-nerfed and questionably useful powers.

I'm sorry if I don't share your faith, but after 3 years I've seen the devs make far too many bad choices and not nearly enough good ones.

And people are commenting that I'm referring solely to Hami in particular, but I'm not. I'm talking about the game in it's entirety. I'm talking about the devs taking ill-conceived shortcuts in their attempts to create "challenge" throughout the entire game. First we had travel suppression. Then mez suppression. Then stealth and phase shift suppression. Now steath and phase shift negation, and indestructible pets that suddenly aren't.

Funny how despite all the talk about "giving back" and "new directions" it seems like we're still heading down the same old path -- give the players a little something that's ultimately not going to be useful to most, and while no one is looking fire up the nerf machine and let 'er rip, hoping no one will notice.

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The problem is: the game has relied upon this kind of "cheating" since day 1, and IMO is one of the main reasons why it's not a more popular and fun game to play than it is.

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Is this the first and only video game you've ever played?

I mean, that's the only possible reason I can think of for this endless outrage you have at the notion that the final boss of CoX is more powerful than the players.

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I don't have a problem with Hami being more powerful than players. I have a problem with minions, LTs and bosses being more powerful than most players, with similar powers that are many times stronger than ours, with absolutely none of the limitations or restrictions that we players have. It's hard to feel super when the baddies are always more powerful than you are, can do things you can't do, can use your own powers better than you can, and can consistently smack you around with abilities you can't mitigate.

It's all about perception.

Now take a game like WoW. Set in a fantasy D&D style world, there are pre-conceived perceptions of how the various classes function. No one expects a mage or priest to single-handedly wipe out a room full of foes. Most would expect a warrior to have trouble accomplishing a similar feat. These are established limitations based upon the genre. And WoW does a really good job at adhering to them as most player types perform pretty much exactly as expected. And, surprisingly, Blizzard has never had to resort to the kind of trickery or funny business Cryptic has in designing the game's foes. Most foes perform quite similarly to players in style, frequency, and damage of attacks. There are many types of mez-style effects that players can be hit with, but they are vastly infrequent compared to CoX, and they can all be readily countered in one way or another, whether it be thru an enchanted item, protective spell (available to nearly ALL spellcasters, not just one or two particular subtypes), or learned ability. In essence, you pretty much always feel like you're playing on a level field. This is not to say things are always easy, and as such many find it necessary to have at least one teammate to accomplish many quests. But you never feel grossly outclassed.

Now let's look at CoX. CoX is based in the world of comic book super heroes; super heroes who do not follow the same pre-conceived class structures as in fantasy games. Super heroes are, and have always been, badasses, plain and simple. There are no wussie super heroes; they are, by their nature, always better than the non-powered minions they fight, usually by a large margin. As you climb the foe ranks and start dealing with powered foes, things get a bit dicier, but again, that's the expectation as presented in nearly 70 years of comic book lore.

But CoX wasn't designed around this pre-established genre. It apparently was designed more in line with fantasy-based games. And therein lies the perception issue, and IMO the #1 problem that will plague this game for the rest of its existence and keep it from being anything more than moderately entertaining for short periods of time.

As a super hero, I expect to be able to fight throngs of minions before I even start to break a sweat. After all, that's the way it's done in the comics every day. Does Spider-Man get beaten down by two common warehouse workers and a foreman? Does any super hero, even a SIDEKICK, get beaten down like that? Where is the excitement in that? There is none, both in the game and in the comics.

So instead of ramping up the volume of foes to a "super hero" level, the devs, in an attempt to add "challenge" to the game, cut all player damage and protections by as much as 75% while increasing the HP and damage of foes by as much as 50%, all the while keeping the same 3:1 Statesman-mandated ratio. Woweee, how friggin super do I feel now, that even 3 of the lowliest foes is a "challenge"? Ummm, so not very.

And when this proved to be an ineffective method of getting people to prefer teaming to soloing (which, btw, is another strike against the super hero genre, as most heroes prefer to go solo except in extreme cases), they added and/or increased the frequency and magnitude of all sorts of annoying status effects to virtually all mob types. And though it did encourage teaming, it wasn't out of desire, but desperation, which resulted in general frustration and aggravation and ultimately led to the vast playerbase exodus that occurred between issues 4 thru 6.

And I haven't even touched upon the array of suppressions and nerfs made along the way as frustrated players developed new techniques in desperate attempts to somehow make up for what was taken from them. Well boo-ya, say goodbye to all the really cool and useful powers that were left.

And lo and behold, here we are today, a super hero RPG where players are constantly out damaged, out defensed, and out classed by nearly everything they fight. Moderately entertaining at best (mostly due to it being the only game in town), downright aggravating, frustrating and heretical at its worst, but nonetheless playable for a reasonable amount of time and a reasonable amount of enjoyment.

'Nuff said.

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Our characters are living organisms. How come we can't "adapt" and do similar things as hami?

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Respecs + New Slotting.

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You're enjoying this, aren't you Castle?

I would like to add that our character did just adapt, its called inventions.

Brutes adapted in I7 with Electric melee and electric Armor

Defenders and controllers adapted earlier with Trick Arrow and Sonic Resonance.

Where would the fun in this game be if it wasn't a challenge?

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That's just it, it's NOT a challenge. A challenge implies strategy; assessing your foe's strength and weaknesses, forming a team with precisely the right combination of powers needed for the task at hand, and a reasonable ability or plan to deal with whatever the foes are going to throw at you.

But this is virtually impossible within the structure of CoX. You can't reliably find players with just the right combinations of powers -- hell, you don't even have a way of knowing what sets a player has before they're on your team unless they're within 100 yards of you. And what are you supposed to do between missions? Kick the "unneeded" players and look for more appropriate ones based upon what you're going to fight next?

As I've stated previously, how exactly do you counter foe abilities for which there is no reliable countenance? This isn't a challenge, it's frustration and futility.

And honestly, most pick up groups aren't interested in spending time analyzing mission structure, summing up their foes, crafting detailed fight plans... they just want to run in and kill things, heal up, then run into the next room and kill things. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The excitement of playing this game is the frenzy you experience with that type of gameplay. Strategy, by and large, is slow and boring. Running in and decimating everything in sight like a well-oiled killing machine is fun and exciting.

And seriously, even if you are really into strategy and planning, with so many foe effects that side-step the rules, are blatantly over-powered, and/or have virtually no way of mitigating, strategy inevitably comes down to stocking up on massive quantities of inspirations as your only realistic means of getting the job done. But for me, even though I am glad to have completed the task at hand, I find such encounters to be largely unfulfilling; having no choice other than to "cheat" my way thru to success.

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I hate when standard mobs "cheat" the rules with player powers, but I'm perfectly fine with a raid mob like Hamidon doing it. I really don't see your point, other than you seem to be taking advantage of your account reactivation to drop in and be negative wherever you can.

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My point was that Hamidon side-steps (ie. "cheats") on a great many "rules" of the game in order to present a challenge. Rather than debuffing resistances, Hamidon does untyped and/or toxic damage. Hamidon "ignores" defenses. Hamidon can smack you around through Phase Shift ... and so on. Rather than using the existing mechanics which everyone else is beholden to, Hamidon is "allowed" to simply bypass them.

If a player were able to do the same thing, we'd call that "cheating" ... plain and simple.

Reminds me of a situation in Civilization 2, where rather than making the AI controlled players "pay for" World Wonders (in an honest fashion) by investing resources to build them, the AI just randomly "awarded" the Wonders at zero cost to one of the AI players every-so-often if they weren't already built. Basically ... the game "cheated" ... rather than playing by the same rules that you have to.

Hamidon does much the same thing in order to provide a challenge. He doesn't play by the same "rules" that the players do, or even any other AVs do. Loopholes and exceptions have had to be made for Hamidon, in such profusion, that Hamidon barely even plays by the same rules that anyone else does.

You say you're fine with that.
I'm wondering if it was possible to achieve the same results without needing to "cheat" the rules of the game the way Hamidon currently does ... and if so (granted not necessarily a possibility), why wasn't Hamidon implemented THAT way instead.

And for what it's worth ... I agree with the OP. Hamidon is yet another example of why the Concealment Pool just isn't what it used to be ...

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The problem is: the game has relied upon this kind of "cheating" since day 1, and IMO is one of the main reasons why it's not a more popular and fun game to play than it is.

Hamidon aside, there are many, many foes in the game that are still using either pre-release and/or un-nerfed versions of player powers. Foes have always been able to side-step the rules that players are forced to abide by.

When was the last time you saw a flying foe such as a freak or longbow get slowed to a crawl after attacking you? And when was the last time you were able to move at a greatly enhanced running speed while disoriented?

Why can foes instantly lock on to you and queue up multiple attacks before your alpha attack even finishes its animation/activation cycle?

Why can one foe smoke grenade completely floor the entire team's perception even after they attack, yet player versions lose what pathetically little effect they have as soon as an attack is launched?

Why do foes keep getting upgraded status-type effects that players, by and large, have no countenance for? Sorry _Castle_, but I can respec and reslot until doomsday and still never be able to hit a phase-shifted Carnie, gain a meaningful resistance to psionic attacks on my INV/SS tank, be able to run out of 10 applications of Artemis caltrops, be able to fully resist a Sapper's end drain attack, or protect myself from multiple Longbow -resistance sonic grenades that apparently are many times stronger than the un-enhanceable player versions.

Why can foes still attack even though they have no endurance, but I can't even fart when I've run dry?

Why does a simple no-name minion's cheap Wal-Mart sledgehammer do as much or more damage than my 3-SO slotted "high damage" attack?

The list is virtually endless. For a game that's supposed to be a Super Hero RPG, they sure go far outta their way to make us feel most decidedly un-super. And again, no amount of respeccing and reslotting is ever going to change that.

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So...I questioned your statement that a power is useless because a) ONE monster in the ENTIRE GAME can shoot through it and b) it has a 30 second timer, and you responded with that much bile? Wow.

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Because now that Hami has "adapted" this ability, the door is wide open for other foes to magically "adapt" this ability. What's to stop the devs from giving giant monsters, Lusca, the Ghost of Scrapyard, any/all of the signature heroes and villains, or any number of zone monsters and AVs the ability to ignore phase shift? In a single word: nothing. And the rationale? "Well, they adapted like all living organisms do."

So forgive me if my bile and vitriol level is currently up to my eyeballs. And where oh where was this juicy little gem listed in the patch notes? Or was the intent to "accidently" leave it out ("the unpaid interns that arrive at our offices on the short bus every morning who are responsible for compiling the patch notes are only human, mistakes are bound to occur... and occur... and occur...") so those who use PS, thinking they're protected for at least 30 seconds, get a nice debt surprise (reminder, not all people who fight Hami are level 50, and being outside you get full debt when you die).

And I did ask you, as someone who admittedly has, uses, and enjoys PS, what exactly you find it useful for, and I got no answer. Cause honesly, all sarcasm and "<bzzzt>bitter, party of one<bzzzt>" aside, I am actually curious. Cause as far as I can tell it's pretty much been resigned to "oh crap" status, which made it perfect for Hami raids in the past. So removing that ability just turned the Phase Shift Utility Handbook from a small pamphlet into a single page tri-fold (and fully expect it to someday be no more than a post it note with the word "NONE" in large sans-serif type).

And as another aside, has anyone tested this with other PS-like powers, such as Quantum Flight?

And here's an interesting (tho completely rhetorical) question: if you activate Quantum Flight and PS at the same time, do you return to normal space or do you become tri-phasic? I'm guessing if you can actually do it that Hami damage would be tripled cause you'd take damage in all 3 planes of existence simultaneously. Not that it matters anyway, cause one hit is usually sufficient to kill most toons outright; 3 is just, well, overkill.

Wait... am I imagining things or did I just see someone with a large object labeled "Ye Ole Ban Stick" heading my way?

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Well I see the idea but I think it's just too' lazy of the Devs not explain why he can now hit you though PS.
I think a better fix would've been to just make him ignor anything that's PSed. PAs included. That would solve the tanking prob.

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He's a living organism; he adapted to his environment.

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Wow, so going by that argument my tank that's been around since I1 has been adapting to his environment by apparently de-volving over the last 3 years. He can't resist or do damage like he once could, can't attack as quickly as he once could, can't seem to get up to speed for a few seconds after attacking like he once could, is now susceptible to a variety of status effects that were of little consequence to him previously... the list goes on an on.

So, just for the record, player characters adapt by devolving over time, NPC foes adapt by evolving over time. Yup, great way to develop a game.

But as the OP said, I think stuff like this, combined with the "evolved" hostage stealth suppression, finally puts the final nail in the concealment pool's coffin.

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Getting old really sucks, don't it?

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It does indeed. But continued dev BS like this sucks worse.

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Well I see the idea but I think it's just too' lazy of the Devs not explain why he can now hit you though PS.
I think a better fix would've been to just make him ignor anything that's PSed. PAs included. That would solve the tanking prob.

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He's a living organism; he adapted to his environment.

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Wow, so going by that argument my tank that's been around since I1 has been adapting to his environment by apparently de-volving over the last 3 years. He can't resist or do damage like he once could, can't attack as quickly as he once could, can't seem to get up to speed for a few seconds after attacking like he once could, is now susceptible to a variety of status effects that were of little consequence to him previously... the list goes on an on.

So, just for the record, player characters adapt by devolving over time, NPC foes adapt by evolving over time. Yup, great way to develop a game.

But as the OP said, I think stuff like this, combined with the "evolved" hostage stealth suppression, finally puts the final nail in the concealment pool's coffin.

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(Blink)
So you only took phase shift to deal with Hamidon? If so, then yes, it makes phase shift useless to you because of one specific raid level monster.

I still get a great kick out of using it in the rest of the game, personally.

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Actually I've *never* had a toon with phase shift. I came close a very long time ago as I thought it might be fun to have, but after all the stealth powers were nerfed into uselessness I couldn't see having to take 2 useless powers to get it. Then of course PS itself was nerfed into virtual uselessness with the 30 second timer, so there was zero appeal to me after that.

So when do my characters get to "adapt" to be able to hit phase shifted foes like Carnie Illusionists (who, mind you, seem to have adapted long ago to be able to attack us while phased, something else we can't do)? Or adapt to hit Nemesis clones that are in PFF (cause we all know foes adapted long ago to be able to hit us thru our PFF).

Whole lotta foe adapting going on, very very little player adapting going on. Cause I'd give my right nut if my defenders could "adapt" and learn how to turn their hands around and use their teammate-only buffs on themselves. Seems simple enough, yet still manages to escape our grasps even after 4 years of training, leveling, evolving, and "adapting". But in the blink of an eye Hami learns how to fire multi-phasic attacks. Geez, he must really be one super smart glob of goo. Cause golly, my trollers still can't figure out how to protect themselves from being mezzed after years and years of doing it to other people. I guess we heroes (and villains) are just really really REALLY slow learners.

And there we are, back again, as to why this game, at best, will never be *great*, simply mediocre...

Anyone want to place bets on when the first round of IO nerfs will hit? I give it 2 weeks.

Oh, and just as an aside, what exactly do you accomplish with PS that you consider "a great kick"? With an obnoxiously long animation time, delayed activation time, and 30 second timer, it's barely useful as an "oh crap" power (by the time you realize you're in trouble you're often dead before you can get it up and running), and exactly how much fun can you have in 30 seconds?

Unless of course...

/em completely_unwarranted_and_highly_offensive_person al_attack on

...you're just one of those guys who frequently takes less than 30 seconds to get his rocks off?

/em completely_unwarranted_and_highly_offensive_person al_attack off

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Well I see the idea but I think it's just too' lazy of the Devs not explain why he can now hit you though PS.
I think a better fix would've been to just make him ignor anything that's PSed. PAs included. That would solve the tanking prob.

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He's a living organism; he adapted to his environment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, so going by that argument my tank that's been around since I1 has been adapting to his environment by apparently de-volving over the last 3 years. He can't resist or do damage like he once could, can't attack as quickly as he once could, can't seem to get up to speed for a few seconds after attacking like he once could, is now susceptible to a variety of status effects that were of little consequence to him previously... the list goes on an on.

So, just for the record, player characters adapt by devolving over time, NPC foes adapt by evolving over time. Yup, great way to develop a game.

But as the OP said, I think stuff like this, combined with the "evolved" hostage stealth suppression, finally puts the final nail in the concealment pool's coffin.