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Well it's not like anybody we send to jail ever stays in jail for long. Gotta love how casually Scott says he'll break people out when they get arrested.
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2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2
2 + 2 = 3 for extremely small values of 2 -
Attention, duelists! Seven? I see 31 pages. You must have more posts-per-page than I do.
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Attention, duelists! I'm not convinced you have a morality system YOU recognize. Really, Golden Girl, where you getting this? Because you're sure not aligned with any ethical system I recognize from the various Ethics classes I've taken over the years.
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Attention, duelists! This thread has become overrun by winky faces! Golden Girl's unmitigated use of them has caused the to spread to others, filling every post. This cannot be allowed to continue, or soon they will overrun the forums. Please, spay and neuter your emoticons!
So the more I read this, the more I see that the person doing the most harm to the Resistance's argument is Golden Girl herself. I mean, I used to be all "well, both sides have valid points" but Golden Girl's incessant "You're a fascist, in America!" is making me be all "See? This is why we can't have nice things. This is why we can't allow people to just go around speaking against the government. Not because it's harmful to the government, but because it actively makes people stupider. Vote NO on Freedom To Say Stupid Things! Talking is not a RIGHT, it's a Privilege!"
Riddle me this: Is there any evidence, other than 'things Resistance members have said,' to suggest that anyone who was taken down by the PPD didn't totally have it coming?
...Why do people insist I believe the Resistance when they say that the Loyalists are lying, but people instantly dismiss the idea that the Resistance could be lying, too? -
Quote:aaaahahahahaha, just stopped by to check if this thread was locked yet, good wording, Ben!
EDIT: the posts I've enjoyed the most so far though, are that of Cpt. Geist. XD
Attention, Duelists! The Captain is here to entertain and keep some levity in a conversation that is, in essence, Steampunkette getting worked up over Golden Girl saying "Evil is what I say it is, in America!"
So yeah, as to the whole "Rebel or die" thing. It comes down to this:
As long as the Crusader's actions are against the state and those who actively, willingly serve the state, their actions are justified. Gassing the PPD? Alright. Feeding cops to ghouls? Sure. Deactivating the seer program? Right on! Going undercover to help Powers division, then throwing Ricochet under a bus so you can seal the deaths of four Top Dogs? Well, she knew what she was getting into when she took the job, even if she DOES totally flip out on you when you do it. (Nova Crusader, Betray at the end, Imperial City power as a spy. It was hilarious. And yes, Scott's okay with it)
But then they start doing things like bombing hospitals and unleashing clockworky doom on civilians? And I'm not talking just "government supporters" here. I'm talking six year old Cindy Lou who's getting her tonsils out. Exploded. Without ever knowing why. And she never did get that "all the ice cream you can eat."
Once they start directly attacking civilians, then it becomes a problem. I'm not even talking things like collateral damage, like the Enriche bottling plant's explosion causing people to get sick. I am talking about how you go out of your way to ensure that there are NO important targets in Nova Praetoria when the Clockwork go haywire so you specifically CAN hurt as many civilians as possible before law enforcement can get the situation under control.
Back to the Mafia example, what the Crusaders are doing here is not saying to Joe the Baker "Stop paying the Mafia's protection money or I'll kill you" so much as it's coming into the Bakery in the middle of the day with an AK-47, shooting Joe and all his customers, and screaming "HEY, GIOVANNI!* WEREN'T YOU SUPPOSED TO BE PROTECTING THIS?"
And Calvin Scott's okay with this.
My feeling: Your right to fight for your freedom ends when it takes away from people other than the oppressors more freedoms than you're claiming you've lost.
...You know, if "freedom" to these people means blowing up hospitals, maybe denying them these freedoms is a good thing.
*This is no way meant to imply that all people named Giovanni are evil. It is only meant to imply that the closest thing I've had to actual mafia dealings have all involved Team Rocket. -
Attention, duelists! You keep using that winking face. I'm not sure it means what you think it means.
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Attention duelists! Golden Girl totally just said that hurting people to make them do what you want is always wrong!
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That was me. I mentioned Fallout. Because Fallout is awesome. And I totally think that Praetorian Earth is mostly like Fallout.
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You actually do encounter "successful" super soldiers later in the game. I believe it's in Neutropolis' Crusader arcs. You meet enemies that went through the Super Soldier program and came out, well, super.
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Yeah, Golden Girl, showing some skin.
See, this is why we put up with her antics. -
I'd like to request some art for a variety of characters, but I know people are busy and 'free' is asking something for nothing. The problem here is that I don't actually have money. What I do have, however, is a fair pile of Inf.
Thus, my comment here is: I have a number of characters I would like to request commissions of. I would be willing to pay for commissions in Inf.
So, if anybody wants to PM me with pricing estimates for Inf-paid-based drawings and a link to where I could see their artwork, that would be great. -
Quote:I like the idea, but I'm worried that the functional NPCs (trainers, ect) wouldn't work due to the fact that bases count as mission maps. There are certan things you can't do in missions, such as call contacts. This might be a problem.
Not sure about calls, but Praetorias features definitely suggest that we can talk to contact-like people while inside missions. -
I, too, love the vampire generators.
Worst mission ever is totally the one you need for the Plague Carrier badge, with the glowies in the massive outdoor map. Really, anything that involves outdoor glowies. Oranbega I can handle, but when they could be anywhere on one of the huge outdoor maps? Ugh. -
Quote:Attention duelists! If anybody actually believes Golden Girl's 'arguments' (In America!), then nothing you can say or do will repair their brain damage without at least 8 years of medical schooling.Actually I'm trying to make sure people who walk into the thread don't mistake silence for assent to her stupidity. And rather than actually arguing against her (impossible, since she won't actually -say- anything most of the time) I'm arguing against her position for everyone else who wanders in the thread to see.
-Rachel-
Really, it's pretty obvious that she's either mentally ill or actively trolling. Her method of response isn't just stupidity, she's actively ignoring it whenever good questions are directly pointed at her. If she were just an idiot, that'd be one thing, but she's either got serious mental issues or she's a mean, spiteful person who's actively trying to annoy you (and, from the looks of it, is succeeding, in America!)
I propose that you cease trying to "argue" with her, and instead respond to every post she says by flipping it around, calling her a Terrorist, and informing her that she is inciting your Brooklyn Rage. -
Quote:I haven't found their arguments to really suggest they'll throw their freedom away for table scraps. What I find their arguments to suggest is that they'll sacrifice some of their freedom from protection from giant monsters and fanatical terrorists. And this is the basis of government in general: you agree that certain things you are not free to do, and the government agrees to keep you from getting killed as best it can. We DO see, throughout the Responsibility AND Power arc, that most of what the Loyalists do involves protecting people from the Resistance, the Destroyers, and the Syndicate, and it's just a small subset of Loyalists that are actively working to keep the Destroyers effective.What gets me about these threads is that a lot of people seem to be ready to throw their freedom away for a Twinkie. If the pro-fascist attitudes evinced by people like Eiko-Chan, Steampunkette and BenRGamer are at all prevalent among young people today we're in deep trouble.
On top of that, most of Steampunkette's arguments at this point don't seem indicative of Steampunkette's beliefs so much as they show that she doesn't realize that Golden Girl isn't actually trying to debate (In America!) and that she's trying to make Golden Girl understand that while fascism is bad, it's not the worst thing that could ever happen to humanity (which would be total extinction).
And as an aside, an important note about the Ghouls.
The original Ghouls were VOLUNTEERS for a Super Soldier program that went wrong. This isn't an instance of the government kidnapping people, this isn't even an instance of the government lying to people. This is the government trying to improve its soldiers and those soldiers going crazy, breaking free, and killing people. While the government hasn't admitted to its part in this, it is trying to clean up the mess and find out what went wrong, and the Ghoul program doesn't seem to be intentional misuse of people, as far as I can tell. Contrast with the Destroyers which the government doesn't really want stopped and is using for their own benefit.
As to the question of what it's like outside the war walls? I'm thinking Fallout 3, but with more Devouring Earth and less Nuka-Cola. I wouldn't be surprised if there were whole colonies of raiders and slavers, and towns built in old ships. Also, the Antagonizer and the Mechanist aren't seen as crazy, they're seen as the last remnants of a golden age of heroes. -
Desperately shrieking the praise of a dead nation doesn't make the existence of Praetoria any less real, no matter how much the terrorists might wish it was never built.
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Quote:The Wardens are Americans too - they have no reason to leave America - they'll stay and fight the fascists until they get their liberty back.
Cole's an American! Stop telling Cole to get out of America! AMERICA! You don't have the right to tell Cole to go away! This is his home! -
**Ahem**
RESISTANCE IS EVIL! COLE IS GOOD! ;-)
Resistance is evil because bombing hospitals and eating babies is evil, and Cole is good cause he saved the world, and if you don't agree, it means you're a terrorist! -
Quote:We've also noticed that there's something very wrong with you, dear, but if Rachel tells me that you're a puppy-kicking arsonist who spends her afternoons cutting limbs off squirrels I'm still going to need some proof before believing that it's true.Even the most crushingly dumb loyalist stromtrooper will realize after 10 seconds of talking to Mother Mayhem that there's something very, very wrong with her
Also, you never answered my questions.
-Is it evil to inhibit my freedom to hit someone in the face with a shovel?
-What ethical system allows the nuking of Nova Praetoria to count as a non-evil act?
-Assuming the Resistance's plans all work, what can the Resistance do to make life better than Praetoria and not get everyone eaten by Hamidon?