COV4LIFE

Originally Posted by McBoo

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by "design our own costume". Are you suggesting that the player base be allowed to submit their own custom made patterns and/or costume pieces?


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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven

Point by point:

• I can see that I guess. However, keep in mind the number of players who don't like Stone Armor and playing Kheldians for EXACTLY that reason. It is a valid criticism nonetheless. Also, it wouldn't make a lick of sense to transform into a character wearing ripped jeans unless the original costume has jeans too. So... in effect, you are also dictating that, or forcing a character to be more illogical than necessary.
• Well... You didn't, but when you were describing the hair, I had a clear picture of Goku. It had nothing to do with your use of "super."
• Yes, Doc Manhattan was an energy being, I suppose. But if I wanted to describe his physical appearance to someone who knew nothing about him, I wouldn't even think to call him a "muscular Spectrum of energy." That makes no sense. Likewise, using that to describe your idea doesn't actually translate into anything but a question mark.
• Thanks for the definition. It was precisely because I KNEW the definition that I was confused. I think I am capable of using Wikipedia. Are you saying that the character would look like a muscular rainbow? I hope not... and that doesn't make a heckuva lotta sense either.
• That would be one power that "forces" a certain reasoning. Most other powers do not tell your character what it is thinking and/or feeling.

Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven

• Don't tell me what I am wearing
• Don't turn me into a Dragon Ball character
• How can energy be "muscular"?
• What is a "spectrum of energy"?

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison

You need to consider how this powerset will work when played solo.

Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn

It is because it goes against one of their fundamental design decisions that there are a few things that make a character what they are, including Origin and Powersets. There is also the fact that some sets bloom later than others, so it could be used as a form of exploit, leveling up, say, a /Regen Scrapper, then later switching to a /Shield scrapper. Or an Ice/ Tanker going to level 32, then switching to Stone for Granite Armor. There are a number of problems with it, added to the fact that the Devs have, on multiple occasions, said that they weren't even thinking of doing it.

Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn

Sounds like you're asking for a powerset respec, which the Devs have said flat out isn't going to happen.

Originally Posted by Night_Hornet

Although the animations could be cool, these seem essentially to be travel powers that don't require you to travel, it which case there are already a multitude of ways to do this already and as said above, travel is easy anyway.

Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper

No, I'm not, really. I'm simply thinking about the actual categorization of the term "martial arts", rather than your limited view of Chinese wushu and anime. I am fully aware of the Asian styles, and I acknowledge that the Martial Arts set in the game has much more of an Asian flair to it, because when the average person hears "martial arts", they don't think large-scale infantry movements. I'm talking about martial arts as a whole. You're talking about a limited personal experience.


You do realize that Bak Mei is an entirely fictional character, right? Bak Mei is one of the "Five Elders", and the Five Elders are exactly as real as the Vermilion Bird, the Azure Dragon, the White Tiger, and the Black Tortoise.

Originally Posted by Steampunkette

But there is no melee debuff archetype for your powerset to go to.

The most perfect possible application of a "Kung Fu" powerset would basically -be- the Martial Arts powerset, but with an incredible library of different animations for all the powers and a single "Stance" power with multiple animations that the player could cycle back to.

However you would lose -years- of potential new powersets as the Animators painstakingly recreated hundreds of different fighting styles and took 7 powers out of each one (not including Build Up or Taunt) to which they applied to current damage/accuracy/disorient/knockback/debuffs in the powers they already have.

So, sadly, I'm gonna have to request that the devs Not follow through on this suggestion. It's too much effort for far too little net gain.

-Rachel-

Originally Posted by Steampunkette

All of what Forbin just put in.

Add to that: The Devs went for a "Generic" punching and kicking set. Why? So that multiple concepts work for it. IF they used a distinct and real-world martial art for the powerset then they'd have to make individual power sets based on each style in order to appease everyone. And the only people they'd wind up appeasing are those who prefer Chinese/Japanese inspired martial arts. You still have Capoeira, Krav Maga, Beni Hasan, Greco roman wrestling (actually -any- grappling is impossible in this engine...), Sambo, and Military Martial arts.

Instead they went for generic martial arts like you might see in a Batman comic before the most recent explosion of kung fu movies, notably Wire-fighting. Though I'll admit the Eagle's Claw is incredibly "Wire Fighty" you might see a Crane Kick (as in the game) or Axe kick fired off by a mixed martial arts user. Especially when combined with the "Haymaker" and "Gut Punch" animation replacements.

-Rachel-

Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper

First and foremost: That black Veranda is hard to read.

What is the essence of martial arts? "Martial arts" is the art of warfare. No matter what you put into this game, if you call it 'martial arts', you will be wrong. Archery is martial arts. You can even call nuclear weapons a part of martial arts. And be right.

Oldest? Actually, the oldest record of codified hand-to-hand fighting techniques comes from Egypt. Murals in Beni Hasan, dated back to the 20th century BC (the Bronze Age).

Best? I think you may be a little biased there. And if you've been taught that what you're learning is 'the best', then your teacher is an idiot. There isn't really such thing as the best set of hand-to-hand techniques, merely what is advantageous to you at any given time. And if I had to chose the best style of hand-to-hand combat from all those available, I would probably look to the close quarters combat taught to modern police and soldiers -- fighting techniques which benefit from the failures and successes throughout history. (Also: fighting techniques which are most relevant in the modern era)

Kung fu is also rather ambiguous. It more generally refers to personal accomplishment than to martial arts. Wushu is a better term to use, but even that doesn't really clarify what combat style you're trying to talk about.

"Smashing" damage equates to blunt force trauma in the real world. Which is exactly what a traditional martial arts attack would inflict, assuming we're talking about a martial arts that doesn't incorporate weapons. Your fist will not slice someone open, freeze them to death, burn them alive, psychically assault them, poison them, summon otherworldly powers, or electrocute them. Your fist will inflict blunt force. Because it is a blunt object.

City of Heroes is first and foremost a game, not a kung fu simulator. The game design held characters proficient at debuffing enemies out of the fray (or at least removed the need for them to be there), while melee characters are built to survive and to do damage. That's the main reason martial arts is not a 'debuffing' set -- it's a game.

The secondary reason is because outside of a sparring match, in combat you want to defeat your opponent, not simply make him temporarily weaker. Debuffs don't do damage (or are not a significant source of damage). Again, this is because of the game's design. At the same time, a close combat attack is meant to deal damage, and therefore will not generally be a control or debuff. Again, game design.

Finally, Martial Arts already does have crippling effects: Thunder Kick, Cobra Strike, and Eagle's Claw can all make the target disoriented, Crane Kick can knock an opponent around, and Crippling Axe Kick prevents the targets from moving (a literal crippling effect).

Honestly, the devs' version of Martial Arts is more based in reality than yours, which appears to be based on anime and a thin grasp of what various martial disciplines are meant to be used for.

In comics, a character's power level (good or evil) is based entirely on what the writer wishes. In a game, a character's power level is based on the fact that all characters should be at least nominally balanced with one another. Remember: This. Is. A. Game.

Considering this is an American game based generally on American/Western comics, set in America (and off the coast of Florida), with some ties to Western mythology, and with servers located in America and Germany... and the only direct ties to Asia are the producer parent company (NCSoft is from South Korea, though I believe the game is technically published by NCSoft's Mountain View branch in California) and a largely unsuccessful attempt at a South Korean game launch...

Why the bloody hell do you THINK everything's from an American point of view?

And beyond that, anime is not what any sane person calling themselves a martial artist would look to for inspiration. PROTIP: Dragon Ball isn't real.

Why should a style of combat (martial arts) be an armor set (Brute/Stalker/Scrapper secondary)?

Earlier you denigrated the fighting style of Neo, and now you praise the martial arts in Matrix Online. Please understand why I'm laughing silently.

You do realize that actual practitioners of Zui Quan have to be completely sober to even attempt their techniques, right? You make a big deal about being a martial artist and wanting something more realistic, but it seems more like you've just watched a variety of anime. You wouldn't happen to be a student of the Musabetsu Kakuto Ryu school of martial arts, would you?

Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique? I thought we were staying away from western film?

So, not only is this an eclectic mix of powers with little holding it together... not only is this a debuff set trying to be a defense set when thematically it should be a melee set... not only does it apparently fail at all three of those goals... but you're only allowed to have one power active at a time?

Dude, that sort of thinking was thrown out the window some time around Issue 3, I believe.

Edit: Oh yeah, and you only listed 8 powers. A Primary/Secondary set needs 9.

Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake

check out the video from pax-east, there is a set coming with going rogue that may do some of what you want. its called kinetic melee and the animator mentioned that he used tai-chi chuan as a basis for some of its moves. beyond that, current martial arts also has alternate animations, the original animations are reminiscent of korean karate, roundhouse kicks, side kicks, a big flying back kick, the axe kick, but it also has alternate animations for a more brawlerish character. I have been suggesting now and then for them to add animations based on styles like capoeria, muai thai and "movie" kung-fu, but one should be reasonable about expectations. animations are time consuming and putting a ton of work into a single set is going to pay off in limited dividends, but we will see, check out the kinetic melee vid though, it may be what you need.