Bya_Kou

Citizen
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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight View Post
    But the thing is, the powers in the game are balanced as a set first and foremost, individually is a much lower priority (and is generally only changed when there's issues with the set as a whole... Psychic Shockwave was severely overpowered, but was allowed to stay unchanged for so long due to the rest of /psi sucking, and the Dominator AT as a while being underperforming).

    This change would require a massive homogenization of the powers in the game, to fit with the artificial tier labeling we've given them. Not to mention, kinda screw over the weapon sets... you can't really mix them with anything without introducing redraw penalties!
    Yes, it would cause redraw, but new members wouldn't care. And even if they did, they could THEN create a non-redraw character (Or respec--there are some pretty radical possibilities, there). I know for a fact that I'd love a brute that switches between a battle axe a flamethrower! If only for the sheer fun of it.

    Psychic shockwave was purposely bugged, but it was just that--on purpose (and it's fixed now regardless). I agree that getting this off the ground would definitely be hard work if each power was scaled seperately, but there's always the option of having attack powers start at a 'base' value, and then having a possibility of being 'upgraded' in exchange for a higher endurance/recharge/etc cost. There'd be maximums, of course, but it could work alot like the 'secondary effect' in most attacks (fire attacks do bonus damage, katana lowers defense, etc). Also activation time could slightly influence this.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight View Post
    You mean, it's just a matter of nerfing it? Except, that'll cause lots of problem, for the same reason that Fire/Kins are so hard to balance... Fire Control isn't really overperforming... Kinetics isn't really overperforming... It's when you combine those two sets that things hit the fan... any easy nerf would have massive collateral damage. This change would basically be a min/max'ers dream, while making the gulf between the min/maxer and the casual gamer massive (something this game has done a great job of keeping rather small).
    Yeah, a couple buffs/debuffs are a bit over the top, hence the reason I said a few powers would not be in the Archeatype creator. It'd be simply trial and error to see which powers work, and which don't--the idea is, though, if they can get the system off the ground, they can easily add in powers at their own leisure (with very little effort, as it's just copy+pasting single powers at AT modifiers), until, eventually, we have a huge list of powers to choose from--it would be fantastic to be able to create just about any powerset you can imagine. And, with more powers and animations coming in from NPCs and stuff every update, we'd never EVER find ourselves asking for new powersets (the devs currently invest ALOT of time into powers, whereas this system allows us to pick the weapon, the animation, and the effect--we just use what's already there, likened to the mission architect. 8) )


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    Quote:
    First you make (bad) assumptions and declarations about ATs and powersets, now you do so about me. I sense a pattern.
    What? =P You obviously DID take it personally. It's not so much an assumption as it is an observation.

    Quote:
    Really? So pointing out how "wonderful" CO is, and how giving people *what they've asked for for years* is a "waste of time" wasn't a major part of your thread?

    *looks again*

    Yes, actually, it was, just before the poorly thought out idea.
    Haha... when did I ONCE mention CO? You act like speaking against CoV is blasphemy. Seriously, you need to take a breather--go outside a bit, that's what I do when people insult MY way of life.

    Quote:
    First, it's not making new archetypes - but now it is? And the devs "don't have to do any work?" Oh, that's right, they just have these magic wands they wave around before lunch! What, they don't? They'd actually have to go in, alter the UI (for starters,) set up the templates and try to balance *just the templates themselves,* then go through *each and every power* and probably water it down so it wouldn't end up with an overpowered mess...

    Your idea would be *horrendous* to even *try* to balance, and if you're complaining about "all these nerfs" (without bothering to acknowledge all the BUFFS we get) NOW, you'd REALLY be wailing if they got trashed enough to even try this.
    Ahh, but that's the simple part--they don't add POWERS, they add EFFECTS (aside from Build up and all the obvious ones like that). Attacks would be chosen by the user (animation, secondary effect, etc)--all the devs would have to do is create the foundation, and then new powersets would be as easy as moving a new 'effect' into the list. MAYBE with requirements, to stop overpowering.




    Quote:
    I got as far as the above paragraph when I said: WTF game have YOU been playing? Nothing beyond this holds merit if this is the bizzarre and stilted view you hold of CoH.

    Also, if you want CoH to play like a different game then, guess what? YOU should PLAY a different game. There are plenty here, myself included, who likes the game exactly as it is.
    *sigh* Some people act like I've insulted their very home.

    The game wouldn't change. The choice of characters you can make would.
  2. Haha, Memphis, you took that faaar too personally.

    You missed the entire point of the thread--CO has nothing to do with it, and niether does what people 'want' (Regardless of how long people have been asking for colours, they're still only interesting until you've grown accustomed to them).

    This is an idea pitch for an entirely new set of archeatypes, without forcing the devs into actually doing any work! It would bring in players--new and old--and even give existing players hundreds, THOUSANDS of new character combinations. It's not a complaint - it's a way for an outdated game to completely thrash the competition.
  3. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight View Post
    *cough*pre-beta*cough*

    The original design of CoH didn't include ATs at all... and had a system a bit more like your suggestion (they found it was impossible to balance).

    But that's the beauty of templates--the devs already made the archeatypes - We'd just be modifying them.

    With power damage based on what attacks you've already taken (you'd need to know a few of the 'weaker' attacks to learn the more powerful ones), and a limit on what kind of powers your archeatype can take (Brutes wouldn't be given insanely tough AoE debuffs/buffs like freezing rain, heat loss, fulcrum shift, etc), the game mods could keep tabs on players who try to break the system.

    And even if someone DOES manage to find an insanely exploitable combination, it's just a matter of replacing it with a weaker version, or moving it to another archeatype.




    What new nerfs? -I- have no idea what I'm talking about? :P I never said anything about new nerfs... 'cept the neutering of AE (its boss farms).


    EDIT:

    The ORIGINAL powersets would still be there, as well (for wierd buffing sets like kinetics and forcefield). The customised powers would just be updated 'fairly' regularly with ALREADY EXISTING powers and animations, and it could pass off as new. It'd keep players entertained for days, months, YEARS. And the best part is - every single new NPC adds the possibility for MORE to be added into the Archeatype Editor with only minimal dev effort (would take a lot to get the original system off the ground, though).

    Character creation would be taken to a whole new level, almost effortlessly, with every miniscule update.
  4. (Note: It turns out that people are VERRRY touchy. I mean, it's uncanny! I didn't know people could be this sensative!

    The first part of this post it a lead in, not an insult. I have a heavily IOed MM, and I know how good they are--PLEASE read my suggestion without fanatical bias - if it were eventually implemented, CoV's customisation potential would reach entirely new limits! 8))


    Powersets!

    Don't you hate em? I know I do--There's always these few select powers that just seem to make the entire set look useless. Either that, or the Archeatypes themselves just don't seem worth playing. Most people chalk it up to personal preference. Me? I call it shoddy work. MMs were revolutionary--there's VERY little like them. If they had been built in a way that allowed them to feel like the army they were supposed to be, everyone would want to play em. But, instead, they were made weak, lacking, and completely and utterly reliant on patron powers to stand on par with the other villain archeatypes.

    I've played this game on and off for a couple years. Through it all, I've noticed one little fact... just one nagging desire at the back of my brain...

    These recent updates have been TERRIBLE!

    Instead of getting content, powers, or just really cool toys, we've gotten small 'perks'. Costume pieces, power colours, power animations, very close-ended mission editers... and, in the end, what's come of it? HUNDREDS of hours of Dev work converted into maybe a day of mild interest from players (Not including AE, which half the player base is now reliant on. But it's being nerfed, so the players who only play the game because of that will all leave--so we don't have to worry about them anymore. *rolls eyes*).

    The problem with this game is, while OTHER superhero brands pop up with exciting new features, graphics, abilities and outright potential, this trashy, old, outdated game stays the same: same code, same powers, same costumes, same graphics, same zones, same PLAYSTYLE. The only major differences appear to be how much worse powers seem to get every month, due to nerfs. All this does is make people who might've once wanted to use those powers... ignore them. From there, they can either create a new character using a powerset they still like, play an old character, or... quit.

    ...and that's where my idea comes in.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Archeatype Editing --AE for maximum confusion 8)--
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    Wouldn't it be great if you could tweak your powerset to do what you wanted? Wouldn't it be awesome to choose the types of resistances you had? Or how many buffs/debuffs you had? Or even the style of pets you had? Wouldn't it be AMAZING if you could create your own Archeatype spinoff with it's own unique powers, level it to 50, then make a NEW one?!

    The devs don't understand the sheer scope of their I16 update for power colours and animations. Maybe they're not so great now (2 minute toys that'll get boring on any character once they hit lvl 10. :P), but with access to coding that allows players to alter the style and colour of their powers? It wouldn't take much more to turn it into a tried and true Archeatype Editor!

    Picture it: Players would choose a template from the existing Archeatypes (non EAT, coz they're special. :P), setting a fairly basic build procedure, with a few requirements and limits. After choosing a template, the player is given 8 empty power slots to fill in. And then... the fun part begins!

    Let's say I decide my template will be a Brute. I click the Archeatype Editor button, and am given a list of 8 Empty powerslots. Next to these powers, however, is a guideline for my brute's power picks. This guideline would list what types of powers my brute can take, what types of powers he MUST take, and how many of each type of power he CAN take.

    As a brute, he'd have to have some form of melee damage, so he would be required to take a minimum of 3 melee attacks, but would not be allowed to exceed 6 melee attacks. Now, people wouldn't feel like they're creating something very 'new' if they were limited to a very specific build, would they? Of course not! But that's a worry put to bed as they pick their 3rd melee attack, because, then... a couple new options open up...

    ______________________________________________

    Buffs/debuffs-------(brute may take a maximum of 2) This would include build ups, melee debuffs, Soul drains, Endurance modifiers, heals and so on.

    Ranged attacks-------(brute may take a maximum of 2) Boulder throws? Gun shots? Lazer beams? Poison darts? This is your array of ranged attacks.

    Conical AoE attacks-------(brute may take a maximum of 1) Though rare in brutes right now, archeatype editors would open up possibilities to give powersets all kinds of cool tricks and gadgets! Maybe your brute has a couple grenades, maybe he can throw his sword forward, damaging any enemies who are unlucky enough to be in its way... this is your slightly weaker AoE alternative to close-range assaults on enemies you simply can't handle.

    PBAoE attacks-------(brute may take a maximum of 2) Do you extend your arms and spin around in a circle? Maybe you excrete acid onto nearby enemies--or, perhaps, you grab an oponent and Swing them in an arc to fend off his allies. Whatever your tactics, these powers'll let you deal intense AoE damage at a close range.

    Mez/status-affecting abilities-------(brute may take a maximum of 2) Stuns? Holds? Confuses? Taunts? These are your brute's backbone abilities. Can you ruthlessly beat on an opponent's legs to the point where they can't walk for a period of time? Have you found that holding an enemy upside down for a couple of seconds makes the blood rush to their head, and disorients them? Or maybe you're a dirty fighter, and you go for the eyes so that your opponent can't differentiate between friend and foe. These are your tricks and traps, your tactics and cheapshots. These are the abilities that can turn a fight around, fast.
    ______________________________________________

    Naturally, some buffs wouldn't be available on brutes, and others would have 'consequences' (such as not allowing you to take certain other ones), but with the ability to PICK those cool little perky powers that you wish were in your set, people would line up to create their characters, and actually be EXCITED to level them up to 50!

    There'd be specific templates for offensive and defensive use for each archeatype. Best of all, there would be NO LIMIT to the style of powers you can use. Want a fire/ice/pistol/javelin corruptor? No problem! Want a Mastermind who can drop stationary recharge-oriented turrets instead of normal pets, and who focuses on personal attacks and armour? You can do it! Need a dominator that can stack 2 or 3 single target holds, then run into melee range and 'behead' his target with a battle axe? Go for it!

    The possibilities are limitless, and the best part is--EVERY NPC animation/power/costume (for MM pets) could, potentially, be implemented into the system - you would have, literally, HUNDREDS of different powers and animations to choose from!

    Yes, this could possibly be exploitable by min/maxing players, but if the devs put requirements on taking 'stronger' attacks/powers (such as taking 1 moderate and high damage melee attack before being able to learn an 'extreme' damage attack), it would be VERY difficult to exploit, and only a couple AoE debuffs would be victimised.

    If this feature were put in the game, it would be a FIRST--new players would roll in from all over to test it out. And, if it is done well, they would stay for a LONG, long time (because of the sheer scope of characters they can now make).

    And, the best part is, instead of having to create entire new powersets from scratch, the devs could just create new enemies (MM pets), new enemy attacks (powers) and new enemy animations (diversity), then just copy+paste em INTO the Archeatype Editor. Every TINY update they did to the game would give us 10-20 new powers!!!

    This would be an insane addition to the CoH/V genre, and would put other Superhero platforms to shame! I would love to see this implemented into the game, and soon.


    EDIT: Powers would not be scaled one by one and shoved into a sort of 'megalist'. Instead, the idea is that the attack would start at a base value, but allow activation scaling (for slight damage buffs) and secondary effects (such as added DoT, slows, def debuffs, etc) at the cost of endurance or recharge penalties to that particular power.

    What devs would, in fact, be adding to the 'megalist' would be power animations and secondary effects (some archeatypes would not have access to some types of attacks/effects/animations if they were easily exploitable). In this sense, the devs WOULD have some difficulty in originally creating the system, but could then liesurely add in effects or even 'special' powers to the megalist, without having to devote insanely large amounts of time to each set like they do now (as most powers would be a simple copy+paste animation, and an attack of our choosing =D)