Blue_Mourning
-
Posts
362 -
Joined
-
Quote:Was this on a blaster before the defiance change? If so, it's no longer valid. Also, I've run against several gunslinger lieutenants in the past 3 days and have had no problem with any of them on my blasters, because *most* blasters have offensive mezzes of the single target variety, especially after level 41. If you don't as a fire/fire blaster, you should be ablet o have enough damage to put him down before he does significant amounts of damage.Originally Posted by Futurias
Yes, there were specific 'hero' level missions that I could not win without going and getting a breakfree. I remember flace-planting about four times against a down-graded Malta gunslinger boss. The map had just place him in just the right position that there was no range and he and his support proceeded to gank me after he froze me.
And those sort of missions aren't that rare in the high levels where you run into a 'downgraded' boss that nearly perma-holds you.
Most of what I just said is true of defenders too. Most sets have offensive tools to deal with mezzers, both int he primary and secondary. I seriously question your ability if you have trouble against a single downgraded mezzer, even on a fire/fire blaster with no offensive mitigation other than kicking ***. -
Quote:I can't speak for PB's that well, but you started out talking about Heroic missions you couldn't beat without a tray of breakfrees. Has this changed?Originally Posted by Futurias
So I'm not supposed to use my largest melee AOE attack because I have to hover-kite everything?
The developers were well and truly inconsistent with Peacebringers. They gave them a lot of great melee powers, decent shields and almost usable mezz protection in human form.
IMO, all 'human-form' kheldians need to play perfectly fine is a +2 mag protection to holds and stuns in a couple of their toggles.
On a normal team with one or two controllers, they would be at that functional level for 'melee centric' characters of about at least 4 mag. But would not be able to grab the aggro of two bosses that mezz well.
They actually be very 'scrapper-ish' which if you look at most of the powers (attacks and such) actually looks right.
Their ranged damage is still very, very sub-par compared to anyone that does range (even defenders). -
So just for fun I wanted to run a scrapper test without any (or at least without much) defense. So I ran my Spines/Dark scrapper against freaks in an attempt to see how much a purely resist build would do without mez protection; and malta present a nice case where my mez protection toggle not being on won't strip me from needed resistance against an enemy type (malta don't have psi damage). It also allows me to run with end drain protection, which is nice against sappers. Once more, my spines dark IS IO'd out, but not nearly as much as my SR scrapper.
Every other group I died. Every other freaking group. And I was a spines scrapper, something with a decent amount of offensive mitigation. The difference is that every attack I have on my blaster either does KB, or holds. The ones that don't are utility. My scrapper could open from range, but the better idea was try and get them in melee range with OG running so I could offensively mez them. It didn't work for long. I got completely wrecked on a build where the most defense I have in any area is 15%. For the record, the most defense my blaster has is 5%, she relies completely on offensive mitigation and resistance to S/L/NRG. This one got completely wrecked without mez protection and that isn't something I've seen on any of my other characters.
So in this case, yeah, mez protection on a resistance based scrapper is an I-win button because without it, you can't win. And I don't have problems with malta on any of my characters, regardless of AT.
Maybe this just proves that I suck. But I don't think so. -
Quote:I just read here that you were responding to me. My tests aren't great, but I'm at least playing and paying attention. I don't feel that any AT should expect to play at any other difficulty than +2 x1 (or even x2). Anymore than that is gravy and SHOULD be difficult. Hell, we couldn't even get a greater difficulty than that until 1 month ago, and now everyone thinks everyone should be able to solo on that. Seriously?Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
I haven't gotten around to running the scrapper portion of my tests. Mostly because the question is so damn complex I am still working through the blaster portion. Then I have to do the defender and the controller, I probably wont bother with villains in depth, though I may run a few through the wall to get measurements for a baseline.
The big problem with this thread is that it started with a really really bad question. Mezz protection for all ? in terms of the game its almost completely meaningless. Dominators have mez protection /traps anything have mez protection. If you take Leaping power pool you get mez protection. This makes everyone who shouts out and says "NO NO NO Its an I win button" Look a bit like an idiot. It makes everyone who that its vital and game breaking not to have it look stupid as well.
For my tests what I have are 4 maps 2 with mezzing enemies 2 with non mezzing enemies and I have been running two different types of blaster My arch/ment which has a high recharge build, and stepping up the difficulty settings by steps of 2 in the number of opponents faced and and 1 on the plus level. I have also been looking for possible ouroboro arcs to see if I can establish baselines at levels lower than 50. If it sounds like much effort it is. The problem is if you don't do it and you dont have any numbers just what your impression is, its not much to talk about.
The only things I can say so far about mez in the game is its handled very inconsistently that there are circumstances where its a no win situation that for me was very unpleasant to deal with and there are circumstances where you can deal with it tactically. Also if you have a high defense build you can pretty much ignore the bulk of Mez that comes your way because it just doesn't connect.
In any case its very dependent on the numbers and type of enemy you are facing. It would be nice if you could say solo and lowest level is what things should be balanced around but that just ignores the realities. It ignores the fact that people play in teams and some team mates are better than expected and others are worse than expected. It ignores the fact people view not being able to up the difficulty to similar extents on different characters as a flaw
So far the only thing I am certain of is that the people taking dogmatic positions on either side are just not thinking things through.
Those settings are not more XP mode, and I don't know if you believe that those settings should be available to most people, but I strongly disagree with you. I have trouble on my kat/dark on anything more than +2 x4, and maybe that's because I suck at playing kat/dark, and maybe that's because I enjoy fighting carnies and Rikti. But I'd also like to point out that my fire/kin, Earth/Storm, Ill/Storm, and every single one of my tanks can fight on bigger maps than any of my scrappers can and frequently do. Two of those AT's are without mez protection.
So there BL - my description of what I expect people to mean by solo is +2 x1 (or 2). What's yours? -
Quote:So far Rularru are the easiest villains I've found which was...surprising, considering my experience running the TF's were so much worse than what I'm currently fighting. But then again, it's probable that Rularru are only bad in huge groups, where you end up taking the full alpha every time because they're so freaking accurate.Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
1) no deaths and I don't recall being mezzed but could for sure that I wasn't
2) mainly recharge so rain is up asap, but has some ranged defence
Tactics are simple, target an Lt near the center of the group. aim+BU+Rain kills the minions, then single target to whittle down the Lts.
But heroic and +2 with no bosses I am having no trouble without mez protection on any AT. It generally takes me between 5 and 10 minutes with my troller and scrapper doing it in the least time, and my blaster and defender taking the most time for opposite reasons. My blaster had to retreat more than once, but that was for damage taken reasons and not mez reasons, and my defender because she had to be more careful the other AT's while soloing, but that's not surprising.
Actually while I do agree the scrappers with mez protection scale better with the higher difficulty settings, I don't think every AT as a whole should be capable of the different options. I certainly don't bring my scrapper when a hard TF is wanted, or a particularly hard AV.
Scrappers have to be great at something and if it means they can solo better than any other AT that's all well and good. But it isn't just because of mez protection that they're able to. And it isn't becuase of the lack that blasters can't. I'd also like to reiterate that many scrappers CAN'T scale well to big spawn sizes. -
Quote:Actually, in my tests where I'm running with a scrapper and blaster, both without mez protection on high mez groups my blaster spends a lot less time mezzed than my scrapper. Further more, solo, I've found that few spawns have more than 1 mezzer with a garrunteed stun. Even Malta really weren't that bad, because there were tools the blaster had that the scrapper did not to ensure that problem mobs could be taken care of rather fast. Scrappers simply don't. Adding mez protection on top of that is not only not necessary, but also not helpful to ask for. At this point in the balance game there's not much that needs to be changed drastically, and maybe that might change with some of the difficult content in Going Rogue, but right now the game simply isn't hard enough to warrant such a huge change in the way the AT system works.Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
Actually what futurias presents is relatively accurate. I was a little surprised to find that it was so but I actually took the trouble to check with a high level freak map, the one from Unai and one of the RWZ missions. You can have spawns where there are just too many mezzers to deal with they can and do occur often enough that breakfrees are not a viable option. Whats more it dealing with them is not an issue of skill its purely a matter of do you have the insps. I personally feel this game has enough zero skill elements in it already.
Second
That is a position you are introducing without giving reasoning why it should be so. I would suggest thinking through the other possibilities and why they might be relevant.
Third
Hmmm we are talking about the same Positron ? The one that only has COT as a serious mez threat and most of their mez is knockback which you can have protection from ?
Finally
If you are going to make a vague statement based on the fact that I haven't completely agreed with or taken the position you felt is correct there is little I can say in reply. What I can say is that while my position on this is still forming, I am experimenting with maps and various ATs to see what the actual situation, it has not prevented me from recognizing people that were arguing exceptionally poorly.
If you find yourself agreeing with people only because they are agreeing with you despite the fact they are using nonsense arguments you might want to double check your position. -
I just ran the Rularru test on my ill/storm. I changed trollers because my earth/Storm was on a TF that I wanted to finish, so I switched trollers. This troller is far more IO'd, but doesn't have as many hard mezzes. This time he got the free 8 soldiers map, same one as my SR scrapper. He was never in any danger, finished a lot faster, and had to use Hibernate twice for end reasons instead of health reasons.
This test isn't helping anyone's case any. If anything, it says squishies finish just as fast as scrappers in slightly more danger. In the case of controllers, they finish faster, in less danger. If you give squishies mez protection to let them solo in as much safety as a scrapper (and mag 3 or 4 is all you need to solo), then what exactly does the scrapper have against the AT's that team better than they do? -
Quote:If I were fighting a spawn of 1 mezzer, and 2 minions, on a psi/psi blaster, I would open with Aim+Buildup Will Domination on the mezzer, followed with TK blast, those (on a defender, I believe it's the same on a blaster) register their damage one after the other in this fashion and will domination's sleep still takes effect. That should either kill the lieutanant, or take him down enough so that if he mezzes you he's out of hte fight with the sleep, you can then take down the 2 minions with the first two attakcs until the mez is done, at which point, you can mop up the floor witht he rest. Both are better openers solo than Psi nado and Psi Scream.Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
Ok in his case, which is a case I know well because its my first, my namesake, and one that I leveled up well before everything got much easier, his choices for high damage alpha are psy scream and psy tornado and they just don't cut it even with aim and build up. The only technique i have found that is close to effective with dangerous spawns while soloing is pulling off individuals and defeating the spawn in detail.
Edit: He could use psychic shockwave and tornado but that would be very silly. -
Quote:Bad decisions like opening with a comparatively low damage immoblize on a mezzer instead of an APP hold, or a high damage alpha followed up by the second heaviest hitter which you should be able to queue and get off before the mezzer lands the first mez.Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
What bad decisions would that be ? I ask because I prefer to know just what I am replying to before I do so. Its so much nicer to have specific points to respond to rather than trying to hit vague clouds of allegations with pillows of generalities.
When you do the Rularu please post your death rate, also please post your time. What you consider fine may not be what other people consider fine.
I don't really know why you would do it any other way. -
Quote:Well, my first 2 are done.Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
What bad decisions would that be ? I ask because I prefer to know just what I am replying to before I do so. Its so much nicer to have specific points to respond to rather than trying to hit vague clouds of allegations with pillows of generalities.
When you do the Rularu please post your death rate, also please post your time. What you consider fine may not be what other people consider fine.
SR scrapper - Fully IO'd, soft capped, 4+ end/sec, 17 or so HP/sec, no deaths, came close eight or nine times, especially against overloards. I didn't time it precisely. But I had to free 8, and I did it in about 10 minutes.
My energy/electric got a kill all on a much smaller map, and despite them being hold resistant did about the same, coming close to death but never actually dying, despite the kill all and the smaller map, I did it in about 5 minutes while occasionally sending tells to a friend.
Edit: Just for the record, my SR scrapper is fully IO'd, and my Blaster is frankenslotted and in some powers just has SO's, so her lesser performance is pretty much to be expected. Like I said, this is a bad test, with my scrapper coming out looking better than she should look and my squishies coming out looking worse than they could look if they were fully IO'd out.
Again, both, no deaths. -
Quote:Actually, I found the situation Futurias presented to be indicative only of someone who made bad decisions while playing a blaster. Hell, soon I'm going to do Rularru without mez protection, because so far I've had no problem with 3 minion or 1 lieutenant 1 minion spaws at +2.Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
Very hard for anyone to perform their role under status effect
The situation Futurias portrays of playing a blaster is closer to the reality of playing a blaster than the one you present. Before you go and tell me I don't know how to play a blaster It might be an idea for you to ask around. As to running into bad luck and dieing its not the dieing its unpleasant way you die from mezzes -
Quote:Why wouldn't you alpha the mezzer with as much as you can manage and then even if he did mez you, use flares+fireblast+RoF to deal with everyone else. Fully slotted, those three attacks should kill minions before they kill you....Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA
so you are allowed to put words in other peoples mouths but not us..I see.
as far as the blaster, my fire fire come up on a chief mentalist and 2 minions. I put ring of fire on chief. he laughs at pitiful damage and mezzes me. i have 2 light weight attacks while the other 2 render me down to mulch. wow. How does ring of fire prevent him from mezzing again? -
Quote:Well said, and I get the feeling that a lot of people would get on board with that suggestion rather than just static mez protection available to all. It would make mezzes less black and white, while still retaining the difficulties squishies, and sometimes, very rarely, scrappers, deal with when mezzed ( I just came off a Moonfire where somehow I got mezzed a lot, and I'm not sure why...I think it had somehting to do with getting slowed and having clikc mez protection).Originally Posted by Sarrate
This is one of those issues I wish would be discussed without going to pointless extremes.
Soloing +0, x0, no bosses is pretty easy, even without mez protection. The spawns are small, almost all enemies can be dealt with in a single mez, mobs have terrible tohit chances and low damage. Is it possible for something to go wrong and die? Absolutely, but it should not be happening with any degree of regularity. Heck, depending on character / level / enemy group being fought, sometimes I've gotten mezzed and not even bothered with a breakfree.
On the other hand, if you turn up the difficulty (larger spawns, bosses) the possibility of things going wrong greatly increases, disproportionately compared to melee characters. Also, even if each spawn only has one 'dedicated mezzer,' there is a high possibility there will be multiple mobs that can mez. For example, any Freakshow with a hammer arm can apply a stun. For lower levels, there are always the Tsoo Ink Men.
[edit: Squishies would also be more susceptible to problems caused by not seeing a mob, ambushes, etc. Whenever an encounter starts off without the player shooting first, they're going to be at a bigger disadvantage.]
Some squishies handle mezzes / harder content better than others. My Dark/Rad/Dark Defender, for example, can deal with quite a bit. She can handle large groups of mobs quite easily due to a plethora of aoe control, and permanently lock down bosses between OG and Cosmic Burst.. If she gets mezzed, mobs will still be debuffed (FS, Fluffy), crowd controlled (lingering Oppressive Gloom, Pet Gaze, Cosmic Burst), and healed (Fluffy). On the opposite side of the spectrum, my Dark/Rad/Soul Corruptor is far more brittle. She can crush large groups of mobs (TT to lock mobs into the debuff fields then chip them to death), but if she gets mezzed, all her mitigation shuts down. I understand that herding mobs is above and beyond what is 'normal,' but it's frustrating that her specialty is so easily shut down.
I will say that sometimes in groups lack of status protection can be more frustrating. As the teamsize climbs, more mezzers spawn. This makes it easier for one to catch you sideways. (Thankfully, you'll have support from you team so you probably won't die, but you time spent incapacitated can increase. The LGTF is a good example of this.)
Do I think that squishies should simply be given status protection? No, I don't think that would be the right solution - but I do wish there was a bit more leniency. Here is a rough example of what I mean. Give every character a passive that ticks every T seconds. It has a X% chance to give a MAG Y status protection for Z seconds. Just off the cuff numbers: every 5 seconds has a 50% chance for MAG 5 status protection for 1 second. The idea behind it is that even restrained heros fight back against their restraints - allowing them to briefly act. It might be firing off a strategic control, eating an inspiration, using a heal, landing the killing blow, etc. The main purpose is to prevent perma lockdown, while still leaving them as a potent threat to be dealt with instead of trivializing them.
Let me say I'm not the best squishy player out there. I'm very conservative with inspirations, thinking "I think I can handle this," which often gets me into trouble where if I ate insps off the bat I would have been much better off. I also acknowledge some players could do things on squishies I might not be able to. This is just my perspective on the matter. I speak for no one but myself.
Still, entire teams without any kind of protection from mez (whether it be high defense or flat out mez protection) is fairly rare. -
Quote:Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA
According to penny, mez protection IS an i win button. She said so. If is not worth all that much, what is the problem of having a watered down version available? If it is that valuable, what exactly did the scrapper give up to get it? High damage? he has that. My spines scrapper has just as much ability to affect a mezzer from range as my fire blaster. Impale is an immobilize also. Not to mention slows.
Your scrapper, spines or not, does not have just as much ability to affect a mob from range. Say you went into your APP's and picked up 2 more at range powers, that's still fewer ranged attacks than a blaster, or defender, or even a controller has. Beyond that, *most* blasters and defenders have access to stronger mezzes from range than scrappers do, even spines scrappers.
Also, "It's not worth all that much, so why not give it to me" is a bad reason to ask for something. What you should be arguing is that you're completely and utterly gimped without it, and even in high mezzing groups, it's my experience that that is simply *not* the case. -
Quote:So should I feel that it should be just as easy for a team of 8 scrappers to finish a MoSTF as it is for a team of 8 controllers, or 8 defenders? Should I feel that AV's should die just as fast with a team of 8 blastersOriginally Posted by hedgehog_NA
I cant but read this as "I have an I win button and dont want anyone else to even in the smallest fashion"
as it would on a team of 8 tankers? Seriously. It's an MMO. There's going to be some combinations better at somethings. Get used to it. Mez protection isn't an I win button. It doesn't automatically mean scrappers can solo x8 missions. All it means is that they don't have much to worry about solo, but in my experience, there isn't much anyone has to worry about solo. So what if a scrapper does it faster? Why does that matter? If you're a defender you bring more to a team. Does that mean a scrapper need to be team oriented too?
Holy crap! A solo oriented AT solos better than team oriented AT's! Whatever shall I do?
Mez protection isn't an I win button and no, I'm not sharing. -
Quote:Also, I've got the distinct feeling that once people *could* gain access to higher difficulties they felt that the devs felt everyone should be able to beat them, and clearly that's not the case.Originally Posted by PennyPA
I can't but read this as only "I want an I win button".
Of course the game has some challenge at the higher levels. That is by it's design, otherwise, we would be fighting Hellions all the way to 50. This is the "risk" for our "reward".
I have yet to hear anyone say "wow, I just can't defeat those minions." I will grant that an AV/EB or even a boss could be a pain to some ATs/powersets and need some help either from a temp like a Shivan or get a team together.
Yes, you will miss every so often and get in over your head and have a faceplant. The posters I have read in this thread all know that. Players have played every AT and powerset combo and know you will faceplant. But in the end, you will win the vast majority of times over the mobs in this game no matter what you play.
It's not that hard of a game. That "curbstomping" isn't that common if a player uses the tools that are available and takes a moment to plan. Only time I see it is when a player takes on way more they can handle (say using +4/+8 settings). If it is, I am suprised it hasn't been discovered by now. -
Quote:What I find really funny is that the only AVs I've solo'd, I've solo'd on my MM by mistake. With SO's. Without inspirations. It was Citadel. Then I took out Countess Crey. Then I took out Ghost Widow. Through all those fights I was stunned. Yes I was an MM, but still....scrappers aren't the only one whocan do these feats, and several classes could do them more easily.Originally Posted by LostHalo
It's already been pretty blatant that the loudest supporters have no inkling of how the game actually plays out beyond "Scrappers can solo AVs? They must be more powerful than everybody!" without considering "750 million influence and 2,800 posts dedicated to calculating optimal DPS chains and the development of 'Arcanatime'."
But it's easier to yell and scream in absolutes and ignore the other factors.
You know what, on second thought, I welcome IOs granting mez protection. On a Taunt set's 5th bonus. +0.5 magnitude for a possible total of +1.0 on every character without a natural source. And make it a PvP set.
If I invested as much into my Ill/storm as I have into my DB/SR/Body scrapper, then I would have been able to solo GM's, something my SR scrapper can only dream of doing no matter how much I invest in her. -
Quote:The scrappers who can do that are IO'd to the gills too. I know none of my scrappers could solo ITF. And that might be a player skill problem as well, but still.Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA
Are those IO'd to the gill squishies? probably. Part of the problem here is when someone says" a blaster solo'd the itf.a scrapper soloed a GM or whatever" Is it the class that is over powered or the IO"s? Double perma domination. things like this throw all sorts of complications into game balance. I doubt they will nerf IO's the way they would have to to bring this in line. Should they balance the game around billion inf blaster/scrappers? I hope not.
-
Quote:If it's just an "occasional annoyance" why ask for mag 2 mez protection in the first place? If it's unneeded that much, why change anything? The devs certainly don't spend billable hours making changes that are *not* needed.Originally Posted by Jabbrwock
So you're saying that if squishies got a little mez protection, they'd still be. . . squishy? That an extra mag or 2 of mez protection wouldn't turn them into unstoppable gods of death automatically able to solo AV's in +4/8 missions and suck all the challenge out of the game? That all it would do would be to block the occasional annoyance of having a minion get a lucky shot and stun you out of your toggle debuffs, which turn off completely instead of suppressing like armor toggles do, and often have inconvenient recharges if you have to wait on them in the middle of a fight?
Just checking. -
So I decided to try and duplicate my test against malta. The only major difference is that I was testing on the first door mission in the Future Threat Arc, which meant I was fighting a similar spread of enemies over similar maps, so this is a slightly better test than yesterday's was.
DB/SR/Body Scrapper: Wow, that was easy. I would like people to remember, however, that she regenerates about 19 HP/sec, has a recovery rate of 4. something or other, and has 46% defense to all positions. I think that if this proves anything that defense scrappers need less mez resistance than resist sets. But that's neither here nor there. There was no trouble - I did notice, however, that I was dodging a LOT of attacks that would do mez, and if I had been on a dark scrapper without mez protection, I would have died several times over because I would have been perma stunned. A major reason I had less trouble than yesterday was also that malta have nothing that cuts through my defense, meaning no unpositioned attacks like carnies have.
Energy/Electric/electric Blaster: That was...easy. I came closer to death a couple of times, but didn't actually spend that much time mezzed. Mostly because I was knocking everyone on their butts the entire mission and they couldn't get to me. Lieutenant Gunslingers are a joke, and I treated them as such, Sappers weren't actually that much of a problem, and I nuked the final spawn while I had Surge of Power up which was overkill, but fun.
Earth/Storm/Earth Controller: That was the easiest out of all of them. I don't think I spent a moment mezzed. anyway, I got this far, then realized I was missing 2xp and then said, $%*@ this $#@$, I'm going to go level my scrapper. Seriously, this was easy. Really really easy. I don't think I spent a moment mezzed. -
Quote:Scrappers don't have "tonnes" more HP than blasters. Tanks do. But tanks are designed to handle incoming damage from teams, AV's and GM's. I'm already hearing that all a tank has to do on a team is take the alpha. If you make it even easier for squishes, on conversely harder for Tanks and melee AT's to do that, then what, precisely is the team role of a tank?Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
Well for one take damage. They have tonnes more hitpoints than squishies.
Now that we are past the throwaway item we can look at giving the ATS something like defiance instead of the absolute protection they now enjoy. After all if it is fun and challenging for squishies to deal with mezzes shouldn't it be the same for melee toons ? -
Quote:Uhmm....How is this a valid argument? If I don't have mez protection, no one will?Originally Posted by MrQuizzles
They can use breakfrees. Breakfrees are not exclusive to squishy ATs.
-
Quote:Do you have any idea how much mez comes at a tanker (a good tanker) in the alpha on a 6 - 8 man team? That's just the alpha. The tank or scrap should survive the alpha on anything below a 4 man team, but on anything above if their protection drops they die. I know, it's happened.Originally Posted by B_L_Angel
I think you are really missing where I am coming from here.
Yes its very possible to build a squishy to deal with particular circumstances well. The famous/infamous Fire/Kin with smash lethal cap is a great example. On a council map as you describe the mezzes can't hit you. On a Rikti map that fire/kin doesnt do so well.
Now don't get me wrong I enjoy the challenge inherent in playing a squishy. I am in the camp that is for the Melees having less protection.
We can look at the big arguments on this and apply them equally well to the Melee toons. If they are teamed with squishies the melee should go in and draw the aggro and the squishies should need to debuff/buff what have you to make certain the melee doesn't get mezzed. This is teamwork. -
Okay, soI figured, screw it,I have plenty of scrappers, tankers, blasters, trollers, defenders and whatever else at high level, I"ll do a test, a scrapper with no mez protection, vs a squishy with access to all the tools. My rules were simple, I ran at +1, x0, no bosses. The test wasn't perfect. My only scrapper whose mez protection isn't baked in with resistance of some kind was a my softcapped IO'd to the gills SR scrapper and my squishies, except for my fire/kin aren't nearly as IO'd out. I was fighting against carnies, and that was good for the SR scrapper as well because she's DB, and Carnies are weak against lethal.
With all of these advantages, the SR scrapper died twice, because she was golden until an illusionist came in and then she had no way to deal with the incoming mezzes. She nearly died twice against a single illusionist, and died three times against a MI lieuteant (which wasn't a surprise, MI's cause troubles WITH mez protection, so meh).
The blaster I ran with was energy/elec/elec, which meant that there were a good deal of tools she had to deal with to neuter spawn sizes of this size. The blaster was not once in danger until the MI lieutenant which she killed after 1 try. Thank you blasting while mezzed. THe blaster did have the advantage of fighting in a cave, which meant there were fewer enemies to deal with and less lines of sight, but on the other hand, she dealt with twice as many Illusionists.
For my controller I used an Earth/Storm/stone because she's not as IO'd out as my Illusion/Storm or my fire/kin, but still has a lot of tools...This felt like the perfect mission, because while she had no defense against carnies, she destroyed them with a vareity of mezzes that were generally up close. I have stealth which meant I could get in close, mez the problem mob, let stoney deal with the others that weren't so hard. Even the MI lieutenant was laughably easy. It was also in a cave, so it was very easy to get the drop on enemies with stealth.
My defender was a rad/psi, which I thought would have some trouble because carnies have a lot of def to psi. It didn't. There were a couple of Oh *#$% moments, but that's par for the course on that build because it's a team oriented build. I died once, against, you guessed it, an MI.
Then I did my tank. Stone/Axe. I chose her for two reasons. I couldn't use my Fire/SS because her mez protection is baked into her resist powers, and because I figured with 40% defense to psi she should operate fairly well against carnies, my shield/fire tank has no baked in way to offensively deal with mezzers other than killing them and the stone axe at least has knockdowns and knock backs, and char. She got destroyed. THat might be because the final boss was an MI and got really lucky on the first hit, held me and then I got chain knocked down from all the phantasms. Part of this is my fault. That character does not have crystal armor, but I suspect that on say, Malta, this character would have less of an issue becuase of her ability to pre mez and the sheer amount of HP she has. I had no issues until the MI.
Let me reiterate, I don't think this was a good test. There wasn't enough data, they were all different maps with different enemy spreads. I think that if there had been more illuisionists on my tank, for instance, I would probably have had more trouble. But Squishies have a LOT more tools to deal with mez without mez protection is my expereince here. Even blasters. -
Quote:Antimatter's blue clocks suck for everyone in my experience.Originally Posted by Minotaur
The big difference between stone and ice is end use.
To get decent protection out of ice or non granite stone, you need to run a lot of toggles. Ice has the tools to enable you to do this, stone doesn't.
Sure you can get round this with IOs and physical perfection, but 26-44 you will suck compared to an ice tank for that reason alone.
Also, you are slower out of granite than in it as you need to run rooted out of granite, and don't need it most of the time when in it. Rooted has a bigger move penalty than granite does.
Unless you're building a tank for something specific like farming psi mobs, an ice tank outperforms a non granite stone in most normal circumstances. You just have to accept that there are a few missions where you will suck, Antimatter's blue clocks being a prime example.