Blue_Centurion
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Yes, this. The old Hero system stuff was wonderful, and you could see the beautifulness in it. I could create anything in it. That kind of flexibility is a dream, but I think it's a dream that will be coming to our computers, or gaming consoles, or whatever we have in a few years.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
But its not going to be what most people consider to be a freeform powers system. Most people think about something like a fully fleshed out HERO system for computer MMOs. -
Brutal Arcanaville, but thanks for the honesty. I'll focus on trying to "reskin" existing stuff and alternate animations. If I could get Energy Blast images laid over Water Blast I'd be in hog heaven. Which, just grossed me out.
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Quote:Do a quick google search of abs. Basically the more developed they are the more there is a chance for non symmetry. Bodybuilders have long figured out that one side is stronger than the other, one bicep will fall behind, etc. With he stomach it can get even more strange, since you are probably not consciously activating each muscle band across the stomach. Therefore your stomach muscles will just end up developing a little different from side to side. Most people do not notice this for two reasons 1) THey have not hyperdeveloped their stomach muscles. 2) Even if they have hyperdeveloped their stomach muscles the suckers are buried under enough masking fat so they look symmetrical.Originally Posted by Surging_Starfall
Mine seem symmetrical.
I thought it was usually more symmetrical than not. And the only usual unsymmetrical part was the size comparison of each side. I was wrong? -
Quote:Yeah Arcanaville, something was missing there. That made an artistic statement that really affected me. I really did not like it. I even looked at some of the original art, and I think the lighting was changed (brightened) which really changed things in the final piece. (focus, flow, and illuminating nothingness.) Personally I am still stuck in mostly life like or horror based on life artworks. The work was also (although fantastical) still in that world. The lack of anything took it into a surrealistic place. I am still wondering whether the artist went there deliberately or if it was requested by whoever commissioned the work. It was, er, a bold move. Not necessarily good, but bold.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You should consider the possibility that when you stare at a crotch for weeks, the issue may not be with the crotch.
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Thanks Samuel Tow. That is good information, and a lot to think on. Doesn't veer me off my quest, but certainly makes me better informed as I try to get there. (and no, my quest is not to get all this implemented anytime soon, I'm trying to get a coherent proposal ready for suggestion land, in the hopes something might come of it in a year or two.)
Crap, I just realized if I want to put together a good proposal I am going to need to spend a few weeks in Excel and Mids. Anybody got a Mids export of Arcanatime activations (current) end costs, and damage for Blasters lying around? -
Quote:That's actually normal. Since people are not robots they are not perfectly symmetrical from side to side.Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Seriously, someone please explain why Marauder's abs are misaligned.
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At least I don't have to stare at someone's missing junk for weeks trying to figure out why an artist would do that.
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Quote:Okay, I either thought about this for way too long or way too little, but here goes: Do it anyways.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
And if you take Martial Arts, you get an Illegal Exception. Basically, the reason we're restricted to human legs is because every animation available to a player has to work with every character model, and it has to make sense. As per BABs from a long time ago, the game has no means of barring costume pieces based on the powerset you pick, or else he'd have removed the hook left hand with Katana.
Why? Because if you have a "washing machine lower body" (using that for ease of visualization) and you take martial arts, no leg swings out. you twist a little and the opponent reacts as if kicked, right? Great, now you have a hover robot lower body with a force field attack. Use non moving arm pods (just mechanical doo dads, anything really, I think the daleks have a plunger and an egg beater, anything works in there) and now it is complete. you martial arts punch someone. Nope! your force field waps them upside the head. You kick someone, nope, your forcefield pops them one. I can even explain the weird twitching as your body moves left or right for the punch and kicks (as your torso goes thru the martial arts moves) as you hover field absorbing the kinetic impact of the body it strikes. Okay, ya, I overthought that. -
Gratz Nalrok.
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Quote:Yes, you are right Ad Astra, the animation times do balance the sets. I also am really bad at the Arcanatime stuff. Sort of embarrassing, since I know if I dig into it I can figure it out, especially since Arcanaville has done all the work (a lot) and makes no secret about how she came to her conclusions.Originally Posted by Ad Astra
But animation times do play a part in balancing the sets, at least to some extent.
I am really, really dumb about calculating such things as DPA & DPS & Arcanatime - but those are factors in balancing the sets and are built into such things as animations and recharge times. In theory, your method of picking and choosing animations could result in picking the quicker times and therefore cycling through powers (attacks in this case for a Blaster) faster.
The devs did try allowing free-form choices, way back in the early, early days of the game. And it was a nightmare to balance. Your desire to be able to choose animations and "categories" of attacks (# of ST, Snipe, # of AoEs, etc.) doesn't address this balance issue. I know you state that your choices would be based on esthetics (preferring the look of one animation over another), but not everyone's would be chosen for the same factor.
What I am suggesting is there must be a framework that the Devs work in when writing up a set from scratch. If I wanted I could spend the afternoon going through MiDs and researching every number, but it would do nothing to help the core of the argument I am making (nor would it detract, it would just add statistical data).
Basically each T1 blast is going to fall into a range of time, damage, an effective DPS average, etc. Same with every power really. Each Ball is going to be similar, not to far off the chart, where you use a different Blaster Primary and are like, "ZOMG WXY Blasters get a Ball attack that is sooooo much more powerful than NHY Blasters.!" Nope, they re all about the same. Fire Blasters secondary effect is more damage, so that of course tilts their stuff by that amount. But Basically a T! blast is a t1 blast, and I bet a few peeps (like Arcanaville) could recognize one by it's DPS signature long before you actually show them anything else about it, (that is just a guess.) But what I am trying to state is each attack in the Blasters sets has a signature to it, the T1 blasts, T2 Blasts, T3 Blasts, Cones, Balls, are all self similar. The flow up from tier 1 to Tier 9 powers do wander a bit more, but I bet that could be standardized.
My method would be to take 5 or so of the most bland primaries, and figure a method that lets people pick powers and still end up with 90% or better match on each of those. Then just let people pick animations, damage type, and secondary effects. By definition the sets created will all be balanced, they were created using the exact same generic power data used in every balanced set there is. You do not let people pick 3 ball attacks, or 3 cones, or any craziness. no picking 3 tier 3 blasts. It is really similar to what I posted upthread, just fleshed out a little more. -
The only fun story I have (I had social commitments almost all weekend) was the renewed realization how much I love the channel-mates I have found. Cause by about the third hour of Pick Up Groups I was about ready to hurl my monitor out the door.
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My 2 bits on KB, and I have 50'd multiple Energy Blast blasters. (I love the animations, can't stay with it...sigh) It is REALLY hard to work with. Compare it to a Radiation Blast/Mental Manipulation Blaster. You can sit and pound the biggest mobs in the game, (pick ITF Swarms, fun example) with Electron Haze, Neutron Bomb, Psychic Scream. The enemies you are agroing are being melted as you agro them. Try that same trick with an Energy Blast/Mental Manipulation Blaster. Don't get me started on hoverblasting and using walls to control KB either. I have my hoverblaster badge, and it doesn't solve all problems. You can talk to me about walls when you give me or a teammate the power to create a force wall anywhere we want to control the terrain. Until then, it is not consistently usable option.The reason I answer this question in such detail is it goes to the heart of why I want customization. Being able to pick what type of Ball attack you want (PB or Targeted, Energy Damage/Lethal/Negative/Fire, etc.) and if you want any secondary effects (-res, -def, KB, more damage, or ...) and then what animation you want for it (Please give me Energy Blast's, cause raising that energy ball for Radiation over the head is just not what I see my character's doing...) does not seem either to be game unbalancing or impossible. Blaster's get a Ball attack. They have a lot of variable, but they are all pretty much the same. Can I get one I like, with animations I like? Is that really that hard. Some folks seem to think "It is this way because it is perfectly balanced, play it that way or be quiet." I do not see perfect balance. I bet you a quarter someone could do a mathematical analysis of Blaster sets and determine they are not balanced. I bet you another quarter someone could do a different mathematical analysis and prove they are. You see, we have entered the world of statistics once we start down that road. I take the much simpler approach. I look at Blaster sets. I see almost every set gets a Ball attack. Each Ball attack is different, they differ by PB or Targeted, damage type, and secondary effects. Oh, and animations, core of the game there. Let the player's define their characters. I promise it will be a good marketing decision.
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Quote:I do not think you are mad at me Aurora Girl. Trying to be jovial and still get you to see what I am saying. I do see what you are saying. Perhaps a better anology is "I bought this car. There were a hundred cars on the market, and three were near what I wanted, and yours was the closest. But, the cupholders are just not right. (True in my car, like 8 cupholders and only one is worth a darn!) And a list of other things I really want to be different. Also, I am trying not to just throw out "I Want" statements, but to use this thread as a "honing" of ideas.Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
Blue, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm unreasonably angry at you, because I'm not. I like to see new suggestions when they make sense. I just worry that your suggestion (and truthfully, whether it makes sense or not isn't up to me; I don't write the code) won't be taken seriously when you caveat it beforehand. All you have to do is say "You know what would be cool? Generic Powerset." and have the discussion in that thread. No need to defend or justify your position before you even make it.
Your point about not just switching animations is valid. Except... We can switch amimations, and therefore I know it can be done. Also, the game is already starting to evolve from a static power model. Look at Dual Pistols, Staff Combat and Bio Armor. One power is a "meta power" that changes how your other powers function. Yet does not break game balance. Different, but I think it is valid to bring up.
Lastly, look at the Blaster primaries. Compare Electrical Blast, Energy Blast, and Radiation Blast. Can you honeslty look at that and not consider that someone flipped a coin here or there to decide whether to put in a cone or a Targeted AoE or a PBAoE. It seems like they picked the way they did as if intentionally not duplicating what was done in another set as much as to maintain any sort of play balance. In the end most Blaster Primaries fall well into the model that I threw out. Yes, Ice Blast does not, it has always been the odd child out. To be honest I put my list together in 5 minutes. If I spent a day solo working on it I could present a well thought out plan with many contingencies that might be able to fairly describe most or all blast sets. But sometimes a pencil sketch works great. As long as you realize the scale at least or the the problem *may* have been, that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being *crushed* by a *dwarf*. Alright? That tended to understate the hugeness of the object. -
You guys have it all wrong, the Citadel TF was a test to see if in the future (er, now our past?) they could get everyone in the game to repeat 1 mission (say DFB for instance....) and therefore use up a lot less resources while still keeping everyone (moderately) happy. Now, the question is, did we pass the test or fail it?
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Quote:And that's why I very very rarely ignore anyone. This stuff can be priceless.Originally Posted by Elf_Sniper
I get amused by the strangest things.
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Quote:Well, we are discussing changes to a superhero roleplaying games "skins" graphics and effects. Secondly, I brought up specifically to discuss how I discuss how something could or should be changed.Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
What does art have anything to do with it? And who's to say Picasso's art was any good?
Art is ENTIRELY subjective. People who think nude 40-year-olds rolling around in grease paint is fantastic artistic expression. Others think it's a naked dude rolling around.
Who's to say Picasso's art was any good. Excellent question. Research and discuss next week with the class.
Art IS entirely subjective. Sometimes nude 40 year olds rolling around in grease is artistic expression, sometimes it is just a nude dude rolling around. Do you know what would make it art? There is the question. -
hmm, wanting to move the thread back to changes on sets, but it is rounding the corner to devolved. thanks again for all the posts though.
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Using your logic applied to what I just wrote either art is a kid scribbling on a paper and then giving it a little throw up to boot or one of Pablo Picasso's works. No middle ground. Pregnant with meaning or void. I utterly reject your argument.
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Quote:Very very well written post. Over my head. I would have my editor tear into it (free when you are married to one) but there is really no point. Because the heart of the flaw in NoMind's argument is right here. NoMind seems to have missed where I said "Can you do it better."Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
Entitlement (as I'm using the term) is when a request is formed as a demand (that is, addressed and declarative: "You should," "You must," "You need to," etc) instead of as a query ("Could you," "Would it be possible to," etc) but the consequence of the demand is ridiculous -- and therefore usually unstated. (And of course, the demand is not being made ironically.)
NoMind has taken issue with my "entitlement." Fair game, and in some ways absolutely correct. What NoMind missed is that this entire thread has been complimentary. Let me explain.
I have taken part in art reviews. When art is something you do not "get" or it is just really really bad there is not much that can be said in the critique. (For whatever reason, lack of effort, artist struggling with the medium, lack of focus, missed opportunities.) The critique becomes a sort of diagnosis of how to create art and get past a stumbling point, or devolves into well meaning tripe. When art is good it can be challenge to review. Many times the work you are reviewing inspires you, lifts you up. The challenge is to find the things in it that the artist can do better. What part of the work did they start to go somewhere, and was not going there intentional, and did it add to the work. Basically, can your perspective help the artist, or help the group you are with understand something about the piece.
So, my title "Thanks for all the stuff, can you do it better?" is a compliment. I like what I see here. I was clear about that. Can you do it better? Not "DO IT BETTER!" Not that it matters, but I spend quite a bit each month on the game. Cause I like it. I am voting with my dollars every month. I am patronizing CoH with cash, and I recommend you do too. There are things I want to be improved, and I look forward to whatever changes the Devs bring to the game. Hopefully they will work on issues dear to me, but it seems in the last couple years the old axiom "a rising tide lifts all boats" is the way in the cities. Really excellent work and loving the direction.
Do I have issues with some of the things that are being done, and how they are implemented? Yes. Do I come to the forums to see if others feel the way I do? Yes. Do I present ideas in the forum (mostly raw, it's how I roll!) YES!
I love the discussion. Thank you for all responses. -
The play balance is already handled. Do not reinvent the wheel here. We are talking "skins" for existing powers.
For Hover legs. Put what is basically a futuristic washing machine where the legs are with vents that shoot air graphics and light. "But it Flies! How do you balance that?" Nope, it walks. And if you buy hover it hovers. And if you buy fly it flies.
"But it has a gun! How do you balance that?" It has a gun if you are an AR Blaster. It has a sword if you are a Broadsword or Titan Weapon character.
"But it has Armor! How do you balance that?" It has armor if you are a Invulnerability Tank. It has a lot of hope and skill if you are a Blaster. Well, if you don't have skill stock up on the hope. And wakies.
I at least am just talking about reskinning things that are already in game. And as much as I can I am trying to think of ways so the Devs can do it with the least amount of effort on their part possible. Cause I really really want to see some of this stuff. That's why I keep going back to hover legs. You stick some version of the Mecha backpack (or something similar) in the leg portion of the character creator, and you are freaking done. -
I have always wondered why we cannot create lower bodies with 4 6 or 8 legs. There are plenty of NPC examples already with them. Even easier: Tank Treads. Take a look at old Armored Core stuff, from like 10 years ago. THey just plopped the entire upper body onto a tank or hovertank lower body. Seriously, hovertank lower body? Nothing easier for the Devs to write. The Guns, again armored core. Either have them be like the original clunky AR rifle, spitting out tons of shells....or Weapon Arms. (or shoulder mounts!) Again, same armored core graphics for examples. They stole it from someone else, this type of imagery is as universal as guys in tights. Just ask FASA. No copywrite problems.
I can even explain why the things are not hovertanks, er tankmages. Play through one of the games on a light speedy mech. Yeah, it dont feel like a tank mage then. Of course, I tended to load down with as much armor and weapons as you could squueze on and then still see if my tortoise could win the race, but we all love different challenges. But the light designs were really just Blasters, hardly any armor, or even weapons. The Armoured Division equivalent of scouts. -
Quote:Well thought out response Forbin. However after putting me on his ignore list Goat still feels the need to post in my threads telling me and everyone interacting with me he has me on the ignore list, is not reading my post, and still thinks I am wrong.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No that isn't what he's saying at all. He's basing his opinion on your previous post history where you have repeatedly displayed entitlement issues and ridiculous arguments, and judging from the responses he can see from people agreeing and disagreeing with your current post that this is another example of why he put you on ignore in the first place.
After all one doesn't need to stand in the rain to know you'll get wet.
Personally while I think the tone of your post could have been worded better, I don't disagree with everything you've said you'd like.
Expletive Deleted of the day award to Nethergoat! -
Well, I said when I first saw Water Blast it was everything I am looking for. I bought it, I played it for a few hours... It is water. My wife is the water sign in the family. It did nothing for me. But, I do not want to appear to be...entitled.
So, I am leveling a new Water/Energy Blaster. HOH is the name. The story was the hard part (for me), cause... water blaster. Then I caught an idea floating by. He is a cyborg (not much organic material left after these few hundred years of 'upgrades' who has been a water engineer on a spaceship. (large spaceships need all kinds of dedicated scientists after all) Most of his work is done with computers and automated processes, but he had a few emergency devices built into his cybernetic systems for emergencies. Emergencies are very bad on a spaceship, so he has some good water control tech. Now how did he get to Paragon City? Black hole, of course. Ship came out of warp near a black hole and he was pulled right off as the ship entered real space. Do not ask me for the math on this. I'll give you a few philosophical statementss, thats it. I saw a Doctor's thesis on a light cloak once. 200 pages of calculus, then 2 written pages, followed by two hundred more pages of calculus. So, I figure a black hole pulling a cyborg off has to be at least 10-20 pages longer than that, and I get bored after about 5 pages of calculus. 1 page if it's multi-variable. Okay, bored may not be the right word.
Anyways, I am playing the new shiny Blaster, which has many 90-95% of the power choices I would pick for my ultimate Blaster. Still finicky, all the Blaster secondaries are made for blapping, and I already miss my pretty energy blasts, but I will go enjoy the new shiny for a month or two and get it all incarnated out and see what I think.
I'll probably revisit this idea later, I really would like a genera Blaster for reskinning. I think it has value as a possible selling point. Heck, charge 3 times what you do for a regular "bought set" after all, you can market it as the anything set, you only gotta buy once... -
Quote:Yeah, this is a one per character thing, but trust me, I have 2 or 3 and am trying to figure the best place for it. As Aurora Girl said, KB can be useful. As a regular Brute player, I can tell you it can also be infuriating.Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Isn't there an IO out there that converts KB into knock down? Sounds like the perfect remedy for all those Energy Blast attacks that constantly knock enemies away from the melee characters on your team.
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Quote:Heh. I love this one. To paraphrase. "I am completely ignorant on the subject, by choice. However, I am sure I am right." I just wonder how I made it on his ignore list. Hmmmm.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Here I must cop to not having read the OP.
I didn't read the OP because the poster has been on my ignore list so long I've forgotten why. Combining that fact with the title of the thread I reached a conclusion about the rough value of what I'd be likely to find if I pulled aside the curtain.
Having sorted through the respondents, I find that posters rallying in support mostly fall into a certain demographic, as do those in opposition. They break down in such a way that I'm reasonably comfortable sticking with my first impression, which is that were I to click that little "read post" link it would reveal a steaming, elephantine pile of entitlement so redolent of assumed privilege even a British peer would recoil in polite horror.
But I guess YMMV.
Now that is just funny.