Bloodwynd

Wow...you certainly do gain by continuing to pay there. You also get exclusive access to a VIP only server so you don't have to deal with us little people. You get exlusive access to the forums so you don't have to talk to the little people. And you stay in good graces with all the paying costumers that have not a clue how this is going to work at the end of the day.

And for the new low cost of nothing...I get almost all that and no bill and I still can level up 1-50, play my MM and my controller, get 7 slots per server and call it a day. Wow, I am telling you, that 15 bucks you are shelling out is really worth it at the end of the day.

No. I see it perfectly from your point of view. When LOTRO went free to play I had some of the very same thoughts. However, my history at CoH was mired by dev lack of anything. Posi was always telling us to learn to play and Castle was constantly nerfing the game for PvP. I left with a bitter taste in my mouth. But, that being said, this was the first MMO picked up and even today it holds a special place in the cockles of my heart. I am very content playing the content that I purchased with GR and not paying a dime to NCSoft. This game to me is a memory but one that I want to keep handy cause I miss my toons. One of which was a MM but I have a 42 month vet so I will get to play with him as well.


You would be correct. I am content with paying nothing. I don't care about the incarnate system. My toons were fine before I left and they are still good. I bought GR for the content which some of which will be missed as I won't be able to explore it. Oh well. I can still run 1-50 with no problems. I did it for years before GR came out. The updated graphics are still going to be limited by the game itself. Yea I took my toon to Praetoria and saw all the nice reflective surfaces and what not and even maxed out...the game looks good..not great but good. Directx 11 would improve things so much more.

This game will serve as a nice distraction for a rainy day. I don't plan on playing it everyday but its there for me. Just like all the other games I play. It will fit my mood. I don't agree with the dev's model and that's my opinion.

And based on what I have seen with the incarnates and the 50 +1...yea I am a bit curious. But not curious enough to drop the cash. As far as the moonbase...that was talked about and never ever ever developed because the devs couldn't pull it off.

Pure logic. The problem is that you all refuse to see things from the outside in and are only looking at things from the inside out. Part of the reason to go to a F2P system was to generate a new source of revenue...correct?

My assumption would be yes.

Now, assuming that yes is the correct choice, current subscribers, although still very important aren't going to drive this game forward. Based on the lack of development, I think it is clear that the current subscription model isn't generating enough to be nearly as viable as NCSoft would like. So attempt the F2P.

Now, based on how the game is, they can't separate different editions. Therefore there is no distinction between CoH/CoV/GR in terms of purchase power. So there is no added stream of revenue coming in from New Free Players other than the hope that they sub based on all the free content. Now the problem with the free content is that based on newer games, the engine is dated and the missions are repetitive.

Now the premium player has played before and has some history with the game. But for reasons unknown the allowed the subscription to lapse. They played for 24 months and loved MMs and Controllers....they can't play them because they are locked until at least 36 months of vet time. Alright - no big deal they can always purchase them right. Maybe, so they keep playing and see that there has been some cool stuff added to the game. The biggest new feature is locked however so the Premium player says...nah I can live without Incarnates. The game still looks old and the Devs are as obstinate as ever. But the new MMO is right around the corner, why spend 15 bucks a month on something old when the only I can go buy a new game?

At the end of the day and at the end of the thread, only time will truly tell what will happen. I for one will likely allow my account to lapse and I will simply play Premium account and roll a MM just for fun since I have 40 something months of vet before I lapsed years ago. But, once I get to that point, I have enough in the game to play that I can roll a new toon and go 1 -50 with little to no care in the world and it doesn't cost me a dime. Explain to me why I would want to resub??

Whew...5 pages later. I just don't know that by giving away the majority of the game for free if there is enough there with the dated engine, the repetitiveness of the missions and the lack of substantial end game content if there is enough there to get people to subscribe for long periods of time. Haven spoken to some that let their accounts lapse, they are not happy with the locking of ATs so that is already a -1 for a resub.

That is my problem. Both the controller and mastermind should be attached to their respective box releases. Now for a FREE NEW player, sure, the controller can be locked but purchasable. But for the Premium players who already did make some investment into the game at one point or another, then those should be ready to use based on that initial investment.

Actually, as I recall, the MM set was a built in AT to the CoV expansion that was heavily marketed as a new kind of class never before seen in an MMO. Therefore that would imply to me that the MM was indeed part of the CoV boxed set.

You are right I did. Sure I can play for free. No arguments and most everything is free. But that is not going to bring new people in and create new revenue. Therefore the mistake has been made by the limitations of what they are doing.

I really have to disagree. The whole point of this system is to attempt to bring people back and new people in. The Devs are largely providing the entire game for free with the exclusion of this or that.

But if you do that, you are not going to get anyone to resub because what is the point? I can play the game largely for free without have to deal with the problem of coming up with 15 bucks a month.

We don't and probably will never agree on this issue. I firmly believe that CoX has made a large mistake based on a severely limited hybrid F2P model that they chose to use.

Alienated by no forum posting access and limited access to already purchased ATs. That is how you alienate a former player.

If you also look at the paragraph prior to the one that you quoted me from, you will also see that I am also taking my experience from a hybrid free to play system as well. So by assuming that I am simply trying to compare Cox with Farmville is wildly ludicrous as I never made the claim.

I am simply comparing the plan of a success hybrid F2P model that allows for people to come and buy content that they want without having to move up to the VIP level and has proven to make money in that capacity. CoX model has severe limitations as to "dangling that carrot" and creating the new subcriber. But if you assume that the 125K subscribers is the prime focus for this game, well then the F2P model that they are going to use isn't going to raise the number of subscribers or ultimately increase the revenue stream to the game as there is no incentive if every bit of the game is largely open and free. So holding costume packs or even the incarnate system hostage to VIP only is really no good reason for the game if there are already a large number of options available to you.

Ok to address your view that I am using two different viewpoints here let me try and explain a little bit first.

Freedom is taking a lot from other companies in regards to its free to play model. It is borrowing even up to the point of terminology. However, what they don't appear to borrow is the difference in each tier that is created. Every company has to brandish their own system. I can't deny that simply because each company is different and provides different product. Do I agree with the system that CoX is looking to use? No. I think it provides too many limitations to the premium level which is a key target area to try and get people to renew. Free players are going to be a tough sell regardless because this is becoming a dated game with limited development. Sure this game has plenty to offer, but how many times can you do the same mission before it gets relatively repetitive? There is little connection to a large overlying storyline other than hints through newer TFs. The rest of the content is a hodgepodge of stuff to do with no real clear sense of direction. One could even argue that the 1st ward being even more lvl 20-30 stuff is amazing crazy simply because the lack of stuff to do 40+ outweighs players need for more middle content. So the trick the NCSoft has now is to attract the subscriptions. F2P is an excellent way to do it. No argument. LOTRO for example tripled their subscribers by going to a F2P system and money has been used for very nice development. I know comparing two very disimilar games is like comparing apples to oranges. The difference here is that a F2P model that allows for the trial areas for free but still allowing the level up process to cap coupled with the ability to purchase individual questing zones has made the difference. They didn't change access to their VIPs (which is what they are called as well). They get their montly months too and were rewarded for continued time as well. Premium players were limited to what was already purchased with the option of buying more content as it comes out. They are limited in base functionality in game but allowed to access most of the content through micro purchases opening up areas. Quest chains are locked unless the area is purchased. They also locked 2 classes that were introduced in the first paid expansion until that expansion area was purchased. Everything and I mean everything has a price in that game. But if you bought something prior to going premium (which is oddly enough what they call it there too), you keep it for the most part.


Now as for calling people naive. Well when I am being told that the system that CoX is being implemented is not a F2P system but a Freedom system that allows users the gift of coming back. Well then yea...someone is being naive. Or when I am told the main focus is on the subscribers. Well no, it really isn't. The whole point of a F2P system is to try and attract new subscribers by showing the the game in such a way that they are willing to buy small items initially with the hopes that they by the CoV expansion or GR expansion. But to assume that this is all done for the greater good of the subscriber. Well no not really. They are important yes, but the current subscribers are not enough to keep things status quo any longer. New blood has to be introduced. This is very much a F2P system with a model I don't fully agree with as I see it punishing people who walked away for whatever reason by locking portions of the game that were bought in a boxed set or expansion such as CoV was.

Hmmm...I did take their model and tweek it. So yea I did make a suggestion on how to implement a far better model.

So even though a premium player like bought at least the initial box set...they are no longer entitled to those ATs because screw them they quit??? How encouraging is that to potential premium players reading this very forum right now?? We want you to come back and pay us your subscription that for whatever reason you stopped paying and to top it off, the toons that you created before you left will be locked until such time as you give in to our demands and pay us.

Whereas I am saying...Welcome back, if you bought a box set or a couple of boxed sets, you get back what you bought with some small restrictions. We encourage you to pay a subscription as it will give you access to certain raids and task forces as well as full access to the incarnate system. We invite you to see all the good we have done since you left. Welcome back!

Now, I am only speaking for the premium players. I could care less about the New players. The current model seeks to alienate former and returning players and gives no incentive for resubscribing at all.

No argument there. But I think that by creating a VIP only server, you really take the community away from the game to a degree. Either that or the Devs are creating a new server that won't fully be utilized just creating more financial stress.

Finally you are seeing my point. I have few issues outside of this that really tweaks me about Freedom. I could care less about the new Free players but a bigger bone must be thrown to the Premium players if they are going to be won back.

I just really feel that by excluding the premium players from the ability of writing to the forums is a bad idea. How can you tell them that you should come back when you are giving them not much more than a free trial of the game itself? You alienate those that simply want to hear a reason to come back by not allowing them the one part of all this that is the bigger selling point which is the community.

I know nothing has been said about PvP or the Arena but I would have if I were a Dev added that to the list.

No I arguing that by limiting ATs is bad because they are taking away pieces of the game that were already purchased in a box set. I think this ultimately will alienate former returning players and I think this just simply looks bad to try and get more money from something that was already bought at one time or another. The other problem I have with this is that Positron states that this is going to cause server issues. If I am trying to sell the world that has never played this MMO before, the last thing I want to let out is that due to server load issues, we have to limit certain ATs to premium or free members because we can't pull it off with this equipment. It doesn't add to the confidence that people want to play this game.

Now, I did suggest a model that I know will not be adopted because I think it is a better fit for this game overall for their respective model. But that is simply my opinion. Will the devs listen? Positron has never been known for listening to the community. For the most part, not ONE SINGLE dev has ever been known to listen to the community. There has been a long standing fact that starting with Statesman...we never knew how to play the game the way it was meant to be and we shouldn't be questioning things. T

LOTRO has tripled its subscribers since going to a F2P model. Sure you get some bad apples but the VIPs are just as juvenile at times. Go look at almost any GLFF channel. The difference here is that the GMs are much swifter and more aggressive. LOTRO's model is probably more friendly than CoH and it allows for more Freedom than CoH's will but that is due to more frequent and higher quality updates being put out to the playerbase.

People need to be patient and willing to help and if they don't the community is going to do more damage to this game than will the new players looking for a bone.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying because people should not be punished because they went inactive and have to purchase already purchased content again. Double dipping...double jeopardy whatever...they are asking some to pay for already paid for content to unlock an AT with a microtransaction.

Ok first and foremost this is not a gift to anyone. To think otherwise is silly because this is a direct method to raise revenue. Nothing more. NCSoft either gets your money through a subscription or they get it through a microtransaction. Either way you are going to pay if you want something. There is no gift in that. Now as far as my thought process being ludicrous, well not really. It would not nearly destroy the game. You see, as a premium player who bought lets say through CoV boxed. They get all the perks to that level. Nothing more. Therefore the incentive is for them to then buy locked content so they can explore further in the game. Thus money is being made and everyone is happy. But CoH has had a rather interesting model for all of its years where they always did strive to give out free content updates. I applaude them for doing that but on the other side of the coin, they shot themselves in the foot and now because of a lack of paid expansions do not have a lot of paid content that they can entice new players to buy. They have costume packs which are probably not nearly as profitable as NCSoft would like.

Ultimately my idea will never fly for a couple of reasons.

1. The devs have proved over years that they won't listen and they are going to do it their way right, wrong, or indiffernt.

2. There simply isn't enough paid content in the game for this to work. I am not saying the devs are lazy but they have not had a stellar track record of putting out large and solid free updates. Most are just nice to look at on the outside with little substance inside. Couple that with 2 paid expansions over the last 7 years and you have a game where the free updates are too numerous and paid expansions to few so you are going to end up with a very problematic F2P model.

Vet rewards are meh for the most part by themselves. Free Respecs? Free Costume Changes? Nonplayable pets and a few new powers? Nothing that previous subscribers are going to gush over if they have 24 months on ingame time and cannot play a former main Controller without dishing out cash. They will not re-subscribe nor will they probably play very long. There is nothing that enticing about a vet reward to make it the end all be all of veteran players to resubscribe. The system that returning players would want to see is the incarnate system and how it can make your toon better so trialing that on a limited means would go further at trying to get returning players interested versus locking them out.

As for giving the bulk of the game for FREE. Like I said above, that is probably the mistake of the last 7 years for this game to put out so much free content and hardly any paid content. Other games are doing a paid every year which opens up new areas and many more missions / quests. If you buy that paid expansion, you get access to all of its features as a premium player. If you bought all the paid content, you get access to all of its boxed features with minimal exceptions such as PvP. Then when free content packs come out, some features such as special TFs or instances are deemed purchasable to Premium and Free but given to VIP as a perk. CoH is doing that in the next update which I think is cool. But still goes back to the point that if the players can't open up certain classes, then they might shy away if they were a previous main and don't have the altitis that everyone else might have.

Most of the eltist and loyalist members of this forum community are as obtuse and closeminded as the devs are. They are usually unwilling to think outside their little boxes and attempt to see things from a different point of view. You are no different as you think I am trying to get the entire game for free which is far from what I am saying. I am no problems with limitations to my account, but if I paid for content, then that content should not be double charged as a premium player to unlock. The freedom about Freedom is paying for what you want. I am simply trying to point out that locking away content that was already bought is a mistake and a poorly executed process.