Beat_Knuckle

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The issue here is that stalkers are killing other players, but not being defeated themselves.

The only way for this to be possible if the game is actually balanced correctly is if by some miraculous event every single good pvper ended up playing a stalker and all the bad pvpers ended up playing the other AT's.

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I think your logic is very sound until you get to this part.

First of all, a K/D ratio out of context has little meaning. If we say my stalker has a 5:1 ratio and your blaster has a 2:1 ratio, the initial impression is that I have the better AT. But what if it takes me an hour to get those 5 kills and your blaster gets 5 kills every 15 minutes? While my stalker has the better K/D ratio, your blaster has the better efficiency. This is one of several balancing factors that must be considered before implementing a change like this. I can only assume Castle and the other devs went by more than just a simple kill count or ratio (I hope so anyway).

Also, stalker dominance in BB or SC is not necessarily an indication the AT isn’t balanced. They certainly might be overpowering, but this may be something inherent to their respective design that can’t be compensated for until later in the game, as Castle alluded to, when the other ATs gain some abilities that help them effectively deal with stalkers. Right out of the box, a stalker’s AS is just as effective at level 10 as it is at level 40. Most other ATs don’t have that powerful an attack so early.

Frankly, if the K/D ratio is so disproportionate it isn’t funny, I don’t really know how this minor adjustment (so minor it doesn’t warrant the label “nerf”) is going to do anything to correct the “problem” (if there really is one). I fully expect there’s something bigger coming our way up around the bend.

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Why should stalkers be any different from anyone else? You show me a scrapper that can jump into the middle of a smart team and take them all out single handedly.

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Because they ARE different.

Fact is, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a stalker jump into the middle of a smart –OR- dumb team and “take them all out single-handedly.” But I don't spend a whole bunch of time in PvP either.

Still, if stalkers could do that, why would they even need placate?

When did you ever see a stalker single-handedly take out a "smart" team (or a dumb team for that matter)? And what does that have to do with the placate power?

Pure randomness.

1. Snake River Conspiracy - Breed
2. Barkmarket - Falling
3. The Damning Well – Awakening (Underworld Soundtrack)
4. Finger Eleven - Quicksand
5. Electrostatic – Eliminate Me
6. Pitchshifter - Misdirection
7. Hooverphonic – Renaissance Affair
8. Vast - Temptation
9. Jimmie’s Chicken Shack - High
10. Finch – What it is to Burn

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But this starting weakness has especially hit the solo and small team player. So our solution: decrease the Kheldian hit points to the normal level of a Blaster, decrease the group damage & resistance bonus BUT remove their inherent damage resistance de-buff. And we'd also give a slight psi resistance when a Controller is in a group.

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Er...what? If people want to solo and play on small teams, why don't they just play a standard AT?

This is like saying a Ferrari doesn't do off-road very well, so we're putting off-road tires on it.

Damn! I just got my costume back from the cleaners too. Grrrr....

Sounds good overall. As a few people have pointed out, battle duration is something that requires attention, but you seem to have some idea about resolving that, so I’m anxious to see how it turns out.

I wanted to make a comment about this point you made:

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1. Tankers will get a "provoke" like AOE effect on their melee attacks. The more a Tanker lands his blows, the more and more mobs he'll attract. The bonus here is that it's not exactly like Provoke (it's not ranged) - but it makes a lot of sense. Some huge monstrosity is bashing the heads of a villain group - they're going to get more and more concerned about taking him/her out....

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Since I started playing this game, one thing has always puzzled me about the aggro system (or, more accurately the AI) is that it doesn’t seem to respond properly to the heroes.

When I look at the X-Men, I can see the individual ATs present in the game. Cyclops is the blaster, Storm is the Controller, Colossus is the tanker and so on. A compelling argument can be made that Wolverine is really a tanker, but in the context of CoH, he’s got to be a scrapper (regen?).

After hearing so many stories about how scrappers can tank, I began comparing Wolverine to scrappers in CoH and that led to some questions about aggro, fear and being the “boss killer.”

It seemed to me, that scrappers drawing aggro was inconsistent with what I had read in my X-Men comics for years. Wolverine was flat out frightening to anyone except a) villains that had never seen him before or b) arch-villains that were powerful enough to face him.

Think about it, as a Magneto minion, who would you rather face, Colossus or Wolverine? Colossus might throw you through a wall or bust a few bones, but Wolverine will disembowel you. Injury or death? Bad guys ran from or avoided Wolverine and that behavior is fairly consistent throughout the X-Men series. You’ll find some exceptions, but the rule is plainly clear if you review the series.

So here’s the question: What if scrapper attacks instilled fear into mobs instead of drawing aggro?

I’m NOT suggesting that mobs run away from scrappers, just that they not try to melee them unless that’s the only thing they do (like a Freak Smasher). Once the scrapper engages a mob, the mob stands and fights. All others try to move away and fire with their ranged weapons. If the scrapper leaves, they follow but from a distance. When the scrapper stops, they attempt to encircle from their maximum range.

The range would of course make it difficult to hold any aggro for blasters. As soon as they approach, the mobs turn to fight them as though the scrapper isn’t even there.

Scrappers can still be the boss killers because higher cons and AVs won’t be affected.

No one gets nerfed. In fact, you could give scrappers greater damage capability to compensate for the lost DPS traveling from one mob to another. There would be no reason to change invulnerability or regen, so the defenses are still there.

Tankers become second to none at managing large groups, which is all most of us want anyway. Not to be confused with herding, which I hate, but being able to keep the mobs focused on us.

With what was said here about drawing more aggro with more hits, made this idea seem all the more feasible and fair for everyone.

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I guess I'm confused. Will SS tankers be using Handclap (revised to be superior to Provoke) while other tanker secondaries will just have Provoke inserted to replace taunt? Will SS tankers get the super-handclap-provoke and also get Provoke replacing Taunt?

Making the single-best tanker CC be a SS only power would appear destined to leave the other secondaries saying "well, we get provoke, but I wish we had Aggroclap"

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Whoa, hold on there a sec. Lets not confuse equality with fairness. My SS tanker is in no way equal to a fire tank in terms of offense, but I don’t feel fairness means giving me the same offensive capabilities.

I believe every primary and secondary needs something to make it appealing. With the lack of any significant damage capability, I see no reason why SS can’t be THE definitive aggro management secondary.

It’s not like we’re going to do any power leveling with Handclap as a taunt.