Barata

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It's not free, but it is efficient.

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Yes, it is. I found that out very early on. I'm dying to get a purple proc into my damage aura and see how well that works, with their higher chance to hit and the greater damage.

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The other big benefit is that they are basically "free damage" you can do all your attacks that you would use if you didn't have an aura at the same time as the aura.

For soloing Tanks this is incredibly good. By the time my Ice/Mace Tank could take out a Leut the minions were dead or almost dead just from Aura + AoEs.

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It's definitely not "free" damage. The endurance costs for those damage auras are pretty high. When you're running toggles and using your regular attacks, you'll suck wind much much faster if you're running a damage aura, especially pre-Stamina.

For my tank, I spent many many times barely even attacking and would let mud pots just do the work. I'd herd up a large group of enemies to make it less time-consuming as it wasn't much more effort to take out three or four spawns than it would be to take out one. Attacking with my regular attacks though, I'd have to stop shortly and let my endurance creep back up again, letting the aura do the work in the meantime.

I'm excited about this. It adds a very deep layer of flavor to the game. It lets the player experience redemption or the fall to villainy. I'd love to try a mastermind out on the heroside content, and I'd love to run a blaster through some of the villainside material. Being able to do this, and running through stories where I can gradually change their alignment, sounds VERY fun and interesting. I'm psyched.

If we're talking about truly new players (people who haven't played the game before), I think it would be an injustice to them to get powerleveled. Someone who has played before knows the ins and outs of the game. They've seen a good portion of the content, they know what the mobs are like, what the archetypes are like, how the different archetypes mesh together, how the villain groups progress in difficulty, and how the overall game is from beginning to end. They can make the informed decision to powerlevel.

A new player doesn't know this though. They don't know how the powers progress, how the archetypes complement each other. And especially, they don't know what type of content the game has. They haven't experienced the stories and the arcs. They haven't tried the various task forces. They don't see how a character progresses from a lowly level 1 hero who is basically just little more than a regular person with a special ability to someone who is a powerhouse. They simply don't have enough knowledge to be able to make a decision that powerleveling is good or bad for them.

Because of this, I think it's bad for the truly new player to be powerleveled. I think it's bad for two reasons.

1) Regardless of what we think of content and abilities at the various levels, especially the low ones, it's wrong for any player to determine for someone else that they should be skipping certain levels or content. These people came to this game for a reason, and they should be able to experience the game. Powerleveling someone strips them of that. They cannot be experiencing the content and the mechanics of the game if they're in a single mission the entire time getting fast levels. While we may think we're doing them a favor getting them to 20 or 30 or higher, we're not. We're just preventing them from experiencing something they most likely want to experience. They're new and see the game with fresh new eyes, and should be allowed to see it. It'd be like having a friend over to watch a movie he's never seen before, then fast-forwarding to the finale and telling him "you're not missing much".

2) The new players need to get some gameplay experience under their belt so that they can handle having the many new powers they'll be getting. The need to work with each power for a bit, see what it can do, what its drawbacks are. Having so much tossed at you so quickly can be frustrating. Yes, they can just ask questions, but there's going to be a lot of frustration as they wonder why everything is so complicated. It's hardly an environment where they'll want to stay very long. If after just a couple days, they're at the end of the game and are struggling with how to slot, how to fight certain enemies, how to work with your teammates, and just how to do all the things that we learned over months, they're not going to be having a very enjoyable experience and won't have much of a reason to stay or do it again.

As a seasoned player, I'd love to be able to fast-forward some of my creations a bit. But when I think back to when I first started playing, there was a lot of joy in discovering the game. Powerleveling a brand new player simply denies them that.

Mary Lou sees that there's a new variety of Banished Pantheon terrorizing Paragon City. The Banished Pants.

I was on last night for a little bit (Freedom), and I did notice that AE chatter seemed to be very light. I went to Atlas Park and pay my SG rent and saw that all of the AE team seekers were gravitating there. The place was packed. There was a lot of variety in what people where looking for. There were farm requests, arc requests, requests for any kind of mission, teams looking for all kinds of members. AE was hopping. For kicks, I followed some new characters around in the sewers for a bit healing them, rezzing them, and debuffing enemies. I then got an invite for a farming team and gave it a run, having fun until the team broke up.

Because AE is in a lot of the zones, it's worthwhile to check out zones that you normally wouldn't try. AP seems to be hopping if you want to run AE missions. Also, don't forget to join global channels for task forces and such, as there was quite a few of those forming.

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Everytime I've tried using the MA, I've found myself in farm missions.

Even when I go for missions that advertise a goal, and I zone in and there is a goal (click X # of Ys) - its still just arranged as one massive farm with the Ys out of the way so you can just get them once you get bored.

PUGs I join that claim to be trying to avoid farms end up the same way - we zone in and once again, its a farm.


So...

Any tips for what to look for in the selection screens to find actual arcs? I'd like to be able to run things that aren't just Dev choices - those may be great, but I'd also like to have a hand in finding the next up and coming great picks - which means I need to know how to delve into the unknown masses, and yet still come up with gems, or at least missions with actual stories.

For those of you who have figured out how to find actual stories in between the farms and farms disguised as stories, any tips?

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1) Avoid anything with "farm" in the title or description. Choosing an arc called "Behemoth Farm" has a better chance of being a farm than than something without "farm" in the name.
2) Just read the descriptions. Most of the story-based arcs have rather detailed descriptions. If it looks like someone took care in writing the description, they most likely took care in writing the missions too. It may not be a good mission, and it may still be a farm, but the chances are much better it'll be a story-based mission.
3) Look for multi-mission stories. Farms don't have any need to be more than one mission. Complete the mission, then just run it again. There's no need to do a whole arc, so most farms aren't.

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the game is a farm. nuff said. every mish could be looked at as farming, you enter kill baddies, get glowies, do whatever other objectives and do another one that is very close to the last mish. so for all farmer griefers remember one thing, the only difference is that farmers like to rince,wash and repeat and non-farmers complain about it.

bottom line is everyone farms in one way or another, if you admit to it thats a different story. if you can honestly tell me you never went to the sewers when you started out for faster levels then you can talk, everyone does sewers when you start a new toon. sewers=low level farming.

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This is a case of bending a definition so that it can suit a desired purpose. You want to legitimize farming, so you bend the definition of it so that it applies to everyone, and then say "See! We're all farmers!"

On my stone tank, when I would run low on endurance, I'd just stop attacking and let mud pots do the rest. I'd gradually get back endurance, and the mobs would still be dropping. Of course it's slower that way, but you kind of get used to that with a stone tank.

Like I said earlier, I really like the idea. It doesn't do away with the need for endurance management, but removes the crippling effect of running out.

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Well, it's not that the problem isn't insurmountable, it's that to execute it properly would require major overhauling of the endurance system, and that type of work may not be acceptable to the devs.

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I'd be curious to see what you thought of my suggestion for an endurance-system overhaul a few posts back. On its face, it doesn't seem like what I'm proposing would be a huge project, but Standard Code Rant, etc.

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It's interesting and has quite a bit of appeal to it. I don't think I heard that suggestion before, and I do like it. Not being intimately familiar with the code in the game engine, it does seem like it'd be easier to implement than overhauling every power. It makes running out of endurance not crippling, but still something very undesirable, maintaining a good portion of the value of endurance buffs.

The only thing I can think of that would be a major consideration is the effect it would have on quickly the servers can process attacks. When it comes to implementing something, it's more than just how much time is needed to code it. I can't remember what mechanic they were talking about recently, but one of the devs said that while they liked the idea of a implementing a suggested change in a certain way, the calculations done by the server for every attack would increase. It's things like that that sometimes prevent certain changes from going in. As an example, there's a run speed cap. The cap is very close to the limit that the servers can process the character's movement. So while increasing the run speed cap is VERY simple, the servers wouldn't be able to process and supply information fast enough to the client, making rubberbanding prevalent.

The change you recommended has a lot of merit. I'd be interested in hearing what the devs thought about that, and if it would be feasible to code and execute.

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End isn't that big a deal if a) you slot some end red in your attack chain and toggles, and b) you don't try to play like you're already level 22.

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That's exactly the point.

You're just reinforcing the argument that the system is flawed as it currently exists. At level 1 the game ought to play like 22. The game doesn't even start to become fun until after 22. Downtime is bad. Downtime is boring. Forcing downtime on the players is not good design.


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That's really just an opinion. All games I've played have had some sort of downtime. All of them. Every. Single. One. By your definition, all of those games had bad design.

The thing is that games need to have the "bad" things that you can overcome. For instance, if you died and were able to just click a button and have full health with no penalties, there'd be no feeling of challenge. It'd be like if you had a god mode and couldn't be hurt. Dying is bad, but lack of dying would be boring and not challenging.

Downtime for endurance recovery is not a good thing, but having it gives you something to aspire to through slotting and choosing powers and endurance-saving strategies. Because of this, I don't believe the game should play the same at level 1 as it does at level 22. What would the point of progressing be? I want my character to feel stronger as he gets higher, not just have a few more power choices.

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Let me ask you... do you truly, honestly not feel any more powerful at 50 than you did at 32? At 22?

Is there seriously so little to look forward to, at level 1 no less, that you have to cripple the player just so he can heave a sigh of relief at 25?


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I do feel stronger as the game progresses. I don't just have more attacks, I can attack longer without getting tired, I move faster, my powers recharge faster. That's part of the joy of MMORPGs that I like.

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If you admit that it's bad, why not fix it?

The thing about the downtime in later levels is that it is much more malleable to the player's choice. Does he wish to mow through a mission nonstop (and if he's a Brute or a Dom, he'd better, because the game mechanics themselves demand it)? He can. The downtime comes either from making bad decisions, or because the player wishes to take a break. This is the key disparity between the level brackets. At level 1, or 10, the player has to take downtime not because he wishes to, but because the game mechanics give him no choice.

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If the end redux were actually effective it might be a different story, but until you reach SOs, you might as well not even bother with enhancements; the difference they make is negligible.

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I agree with this. TO endurance reductions are just about worthless. DOs are somewhat effective. SOs are when you can really make a difference. Though I think using IOs from sets is the best way to do it.

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Eliminating TOs and DOs entirely and starting with SOs at level 1, as has been proposed by others, would go a long way towards fixing the problem, but it's still not sufficient because there simply aren't enough slots available to a pre-22 character to make a significant difference. Something like a universal reduction in end costs to every power in the game, or something easier, like a universal boost inherent regen and recovery, is needed in addition to that.

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The thing is that endurance reduction is so tightly woven into the mechanics of the game, universal changes would be excessively disruptive as everything would have to be adjusted across all of the various levels the player could be. Hearing the devs talk in the past about endurance management, I've gotten the impression that they really wish they did it differently, but accept the fact that it's such a rewrite of the game mechanics, it's best to just live with it and address it in specific areas.

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I agree with everything else you've said here, although I don't think the problem is as insurmountable as you seem to.

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Well, it's not that the problem isn't insurmountable, it's that to execute it properly would require major overhauling of the endurance system, and that type of work may not be acceptable to the devs. Over time, I've learned that it's not just a queston of whether something can be done, it's a question of if it's worth the dev's time to do it, and you can convince them of that.

I don't think the early game is as crippling as you imply it is. I think there's room for improvement, but (with the exception of a couple archetypes/powersets) not as bad as some people say. Listening to them, they want the equivalent of six-slotted Stamina as an inherent from the start because otherwise "it's just not fun". I don't want it quite the way it is, but I do want my character to feel like a slightly-better-than-normal person at first, and then gradually build up to a superhero powerhouse.

I say get rid of the timer on Rest, letting us use it whenever we want. The fact it takes seemingly forever to activate is punishment enough. I also think we should get some kind of endurance discount at level one, it should stay unchanged until around level 14, then dissipate by the time you hit 24. I don't like doing that because I don't like the idea of having a buff that disappears, meaning you get weaker over time, but some sets do have some problems until they get Stamina and access to SOs or SO-level IOs.

I've played a couple of the DC arcs and very much enjoyed them. My favorite to date is The Butterfly Effect and its sequel. It was well-written, interesting, had totally appropriate villains, was just the correct length and difficulty, and was executed incredibly well. I've played it a couple times, I enjoyed it so much.

I've played several arcs that I thought were quite nice, and rated them from three to five stars, depending upon how good they were.

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End isn't that big a deal if a) you slot some end red in your attack chain and toggles, and b) you don't try to play like you're already level 22.

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That's exactly the point.

You're just reinforcing the argument that the system is flawed as it currently exists. At level 1 the game ought to play like 22. The game doesn't even start to become fun until after 22. Downtime is bad. Downtime is boring. Forcing downtime on the players is not good design.


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That's really just an opinion. All games I've played have had some sort of downtime. All of them. Every. Single. One. By your definition, all of those games had bad design.

The thing is that games need to have the "bad" things that you can overcome. For instance, if you died and were able to just click a button and have full health with no penalties, there'd be no feeling of challenge. It'd be like if you had a god mode and couldn't be hurt. Dying is bad, but lack of dying would be boring and not challenging.

Downtime for endurance recovery is not a good thing, but having it gives you something to aspire to through slotting and choosing powers and endurance-saving strategies. Because of this, I don't believe the game should play the same at level 1 as it does at level 22. What would the point of progressing be? I want my character to feel stronger as he gets higher, not just have a few more power choices.

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If the end redux were actually effective it might be a different story, but until you reach SOs, you might as well not even bother with enhancements; the difference they make is negligible.

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I agree with this. TO endurance reductions are just about worthless. DOs are somewhat effective. SOs are when you can really make a difference. Though I think using IOs from sets is the best way to do it.

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Eliminating TOs and DOs entirely and starting with SOs at level 1, as has been proposed by others, would go a long way towards fixing the problem, but it's still not sufficient because there simply aren't enough slots available to a pre-22 character to make a significant difference. Something like a universal reduction in end costs to every power in the game, or something easier, like a universal boost inherent regen and recovery, is needed in addition to that.

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The thing is that endurance reduction is so tightly woven into the mechanics of the game, universal changes would be excessively disruptive as everything would have to be adjusted across all of the various levels the player could be. Hearing the devs talk in the past about endurance management, I've gotten the impression that they really wish they did it differently, but accept the fact that it's such a rewrite of the game mechanics, it's best to just live with it and address it in specific areas.

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Correct. No vote counts as no vote and doesn't impact ratings. You have to click 1 star twice to vote zero and torpedo someone's arc (deservedly or not).

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So as long as I don't click on any of the stars AT ALL, I'm not unintentionally 0-starring?


If I've clicked on a rating, then decide I don't want to give any rating at all, is there a way at that point to do that?

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Nope, if you click on a rating and then decide you don't want to give any rating at all and so you remove that star, you will be giving it zero stars.

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What if you just close the window without clicking the big button?

I have a problem with things like earth blast or water blast because they just don't feel like "blast" kinds of sets. I can see, comic-book-wise, generating fire or cold, but not earth or water. It seems like the earth and water should be coming from somewhere.

Poison Gas Trap would be like a dream! That would be way too awesome for a blaster secondary. Since we're throwing stuff out there, how about something like an oil grenade? Toss it and breaks open to make a small, ice-patch-sized oil slick that mobs slip and fall down on, like Ice Patch? For flavor, it can be made ignitable, like a mini version of the defender one. That could be fun.

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Are you getting tired of the game nerfs? If so, plaese speak your mind here.

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What nerfs? For quite a while now, nerfs have been very minor or rare, and have been outnumbered by buffs. If you're referring to MA, it doesn't even count. They made those changes just weeks after it was released. It's very common for a totally new game mechanic to go through changes like that early on. It isn't part of the game long enough to be considered as standard.

And in the meantime, we've had tons of buffs. Exp was buffed, debt was decreased, leveling speed is faster than ever, more rewards have been added to the game, powers have been buffed...

Seriously, cries of "NERF!" are totally unwarranted and is why you don't see them much over the last couple years.

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I think it's good for new players to experience an organic growth in power from the low levels to the mid levels to the high levels, and experience 'landmarks' in their own time. Getting stamina is one of those landmarks.
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This is exactly why I play MMORPGs, and why I have no problems with starting out relatively weak. I like watching my character grow. I feel it's very organic like NG just said, and hitting the landmarks lets you appreciate the characters and the work you put towards them.

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However, there's the fact that at lower levels, you're NOT supposed to be able to attack like a madman, and a continuous pace, throughout a mission. It's good training for end management that should serve you well later in in the game when your enhancements allow for a bit more leeway.

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How is having endurance management suck early in the game good training for anything in the late game, where endurance management is dramatically easier because you have so many more options, all of which are more effective?

Endurance management in the lowbie game isn't good for anything except making me not want to play my lowbie alts.

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It's not that endurance is supposed to be really bad in the early levels, just that when you create a character, you should start out relatively normal. That's one of the defining traits of MMORPGs, that you start out more or less as a normal person, but gradually gain experience and abilities and become stronger and stronger. The devs have implied a couple times over the years that they wish they had handled endurance differently, but it was too finely ingrained into the game mechanics to just do away with it. They've done a lot to address many of the issues, but those early levels are still left.

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I'm not sure if the "starting out relatively normal" is appropriate to the genre. I didn't spend all that time flailing around in the vat of toxic waste to wait 20 levels before I could use my new superpowers without sucking wind, thank you very much.


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It's standard for all of the MMORPG genres. You start out at level 1 and grow stronger as you progress. And my early suggestion for an early endurance discount addresses that issue of "sucking wind". I generally don't like the concept of early buffs that disappear, meaning you get weaker as you progress, but the fact is that the game was designed with endurance usage interwoven into its mechanics. It's incredibly unlikely it will go away, unless the devs totally rewrite the mechanics and redesign all of the powers, so we have to work with not only what's possible, but what's feasible and can be executed with a reasonable amount of work and time.

As for reducing the recharge of rest that you mention..... I find no problem with that suggestion. If that would help people, then I'd happily go along with it. Personally, I don't think Rest should even have a recharge at all. I think the long delay for it to kick in is "punishment" enough for using it.

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I'd probably have a flat out 35% endurance discount at level 1, leave it untouched until 15, and then gradually disappear over the next 10 levels

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I still hold to my original position. 35% endurance discount is almost exactly the same as 50% more endurance recovery. As, for instance, you get from Stamina.

So my level 10, with one toggle and gaps in his attack chain, is going to handle endurance MORE efficiently than my level 28, who also has to run three toggles and a 100% full attack chain, and took three powers for the privilege.

Yeah, that's a great idea. Really makes people want to get to the "good levels".

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Like getting to the "good levels" is anything but inevitable?

Then knock it back down to 25% or so. Whatever. I just thought it would ease some of the problems certain archetypes have with endurance at the early levels. They do it now with accuracy, so I can't see where there's no precedence to do it for endurance. Many people support slotting for endurance reduction. You hear it all of the time when someone posts that they have endurance problems. Get stamina and slot for endurance reduction. You can't get stamina until level 20, and slotting for endurance reduction with TOs has almost no noticeable benefit since the enhanced value is too small. With damage, you're directly adding on damage in a proportion equal to the enhancement value. Accuracy directly adds to your to-hit chance. With endurance reduction though, the discount is less, requiring 100% of enhancements to bring down endurance usage by 50%. TOs just don't cut it, but that's all you have access to until level 12. That's why I prefer that the endurance discount not start to dissipate until you're high enough to start using DOs.

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I still say Beginner's Luck for Endurance. Give it a cute name, like Wippersnapper, or Too Many Energy Drinks Last Night. One through twenty, you get this bonus, and it diminishes slightly every level. Or maybe every five levels...

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That's what I was thinking. Some kind of endurance discount that gradually decreases. I'd do it differently than the Beginner's Luck though. I'd probably have a flat out 35% endurance discount at level 1, leave it untouched until 15, and then gradually disappear over the next 10 levels.

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However, there's the fact that at lower levels, you're NOT supposed to be able to attack like a madman, and a continuous pace, throughout a mission. It's good training for end management that should serve you well later in in the game when your enhancements allow for a bit more leeway.

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How is having endurance management suck early in the game good training for anything in the late game, where endurance management is dramatically easier because you have so many more options, all of which are more effective?

Endurance management in the lowbie game isn't good for anything except making me not want to play my lowbie alts.

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It's not that endurance is supposed to be really bad in the early levels, just that when you create a character, you should start out relatively normal. That's one of the defining traits of MMORPGs, that you start out more or less as a normal person, but gradually gain experience and abilities and become stronger and stronger. The devs have implied a couple times over the years that they wish they had handled endurance differently, but it was too finely ingrained into the game mechanics to just do away with it. They've done a lot to address many of the issues, but those early levels are still left.

If you just use a boss, but set him as a standard difficulty, won't he exemp down for the people on heroic and become a lieutenant?

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Are you absolutely, absolutely sure you could do this before? I have a pretty clear memory of setting up a boss encounter with Crey and that only the boss characters from Crey were listed. That would've been last weekend, prior to the patch.

When you're setting up boss encounters with custom groups, you should have all characters listed, AV down to minion - but I thought that was still working as of yesterday.

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If that's the case, then would adding the non-custom characters to the custom group allow you to create a boss encounter using lieutenants and minions?