Attache

I think people are very interested in a variety of travel power pool customizations as a way of thematically flavoring their heroes and villains. Ice slide just got a little more attention in this thread because some people considered its intimate connection to Iceman debatable. The focus was on that claim – I don’t think we should take from it that an Ice Slide is the Numero Uno travel customization request. However, redname thread polling players specifically about this subject might just help us identify what is most desired. /toggleoff_Subtle Hint

The ideas are out there (Magic Carpets, Broomsticks, Floating Chunks of Earth, Ice Slides, Metal Disks, Sci-Fi Platforms, Burrowing, Swinging, etc.) and most come from other media and are public domain in spite of the other game doing them too. I have actually been working on a more comprehensive pitch for travel power customization but for the short version, I would just beg the devs that we make this true power customization and not just to a series of Walk-style one-offs that gray you out while in use. Travel powers certainly can make you feel more super but being completely vulnerable while using them really has the opposite effect. We need to be able to protect ourselves and attack.

My pitch for ice slide specifically would be to make it less like Iceman’s static and boring pose and more like Frozone’s dynamic skating maneuver with the arms pumping and the hands tossing ice slightly ahead on the topography to form the skating surface. I’d make it an alternate of Super Speed and have it more or less conform to the limitations of that power – as cool as it would be to build ice ramps to the ceiling of the sky, it would also mean that the omni-directional aspect of the power would have the devs wanting to limit it in some other way and that way would likely be speed. Ice slide should be fast!

Lastly, I’d like to say that if a variety of animated costume piece jetpacks for the new backpack slot aren’t available in the game soon after the release of i21, I will hold my breath until I turn blue. This is probably the last arena where I really get frustrated with development, triply so whenever I see a redname paraphrasing the “give players what they want” dictum from years back. Players have wanted these as costume pieces since beta. They’ve been requested thousands of times. It is long overdue.

I honestly can't even make a straight answer to the question because the examples provided have next to no relation to the genre, even if one is a pretty nifty cosplay of a signature superhero. The genre we're discussing famously has all manner of impracticalities in costume design for both men and women. If I were a person inhabiting that world, I don't suppose I'd be all that fazed by a half-naked lady swooping in to save my bacon with her awesome psychic powers. While I might be inclined to admire the view or wonder how she keeps her skin so satiny smooth and blemish-free while fighting bad guys in her underoos, I would also be part of a world where that sort of thing is not uncommon. I'd probably just be happy I was saved.

I guess a more pertinent set of questions to what I was railing against would be 'Which woman is more capable? Which woman is more intelligent? Which woman has more personal integrity? My answer would be: I can't tell from mere pictures. It's definitely off-topic for the thread but on target with my personal beef.

Hey, I appreciate shapeliness top and bottom so if you're trying to either/or me, my response is to put those hands together. Maybe a little extra on the back porch would balance things out for the people for whom proportion is important.

Having just evoked Rob Leifeld a page or so back myself, I'm not quite understanding your using him here. Anything that he ever did in comics is bad and must not be repeated? I'm truly not getting what you mean to say.

I can assure you that Rob Leifeld was not the first to draw disproportionate anatomy and he didn't invent big boobs in comics. While I personally did not really like his art at the time, his stylized approach was really just part of a trend of the 1990's - he was just arguably one of the more ridiculous offenders and has become the quintessential boogeyman. I'm not really up on comics enough these days to comment on what his lasting impact might have been but it does seem to me like the stylized approach to characters remains firmly represented in the industry.

My take - and I don't think that you and I are going to see eye to eye - is that a game about superheroes just might attract a few fans of the main media in which superheroes appear and those fans will have certain expectations. Idealized bodies have been a staple of the genre. I'd never suggest that the game shouldn't allow for normal proportions or that we should never get an overweight body type because they have representation too but, yeah, at least some of the signature heroes should be hotness and if they wear a costume that would just be completely ridiculous in the real world I would feel that is pretty par for the course with the source material.

Short of the shawl - which I do think is an interesting and unique visual flair - I do agree that the costume isn't very striking or iconic. Where we may separate in our opinion is that I think it could get a re-design that shows the same amount of skin, actually manages to look good, and, dare I say, classy.

This really isn't directed at the quoted poster as YMMV is acknowledged but I guess what bugs me the most about these kinds of discussions is the relative (and sometimes willful) ignorance of who we are as a species. I'm not trying to be dismissive when I say that City of Heroes didn't invent boobies or skimpy costumes of cheesecake superheroines. It isn't Modern Media or a product of a sex-obsessed culture - I guarantee you about five seconds after the first caveman invented art, he was trying to draw a set of no-no's doing the nasty. This wasn't invented by Corporate America and forced down our throats (there's an image), it is part of our collective consciousness. Everybody shakes their head at all the naughtiness, declares things are going to hell in a hand basket, and then enjoys whatever their personal peccadillo is in the privacy of their own home. It's been with us since the beginning of time, folks. The shame and disdain and moral superiority we feel about sex and our bodies, that's what has been invented for us.

As it relates to CoX, complaining about T & A in a game that emulates superheroic comic fiction strikes me as not too far off complaining that Baskin-Robbins sells ice cream. This isn't some hallmark of our declining society for all you Werthams out there. This is what comics have been from the very beginning. If you really find it untenable, why not check out some of the Lego games instead? You'll love them - everyone is flat-chested.

Sure, under all that snark and your personal sensibilities there is a pretty valid point about the re-design disregarding the the size and proportion of the first model. My opinion? I think that the sizes and scales of Swan and Sister Psyche (and a few others) are a little small and scrawny given the some of the other NPCs and the geometry you encounter in the game so I'd be fine with them getting a scale makeover. In Sister Psyche's particular case, I could see such a makeover making her a little more curvy so her model would match better with her image in art, marketing, and other media. I'm not suggesting that they turn her into Morganna the Kissing Bandit - only that a little more is not inconsistent to the way she has been portrayed out-of-game.

That said, I can see how some people might not dig the change. I just don't see it as being the mark of anything in particular, aside from being an upgrade of a substandard model.

I think David kind of muddied the waters himself by commenting on an unsolicited design that someone else decided to share - KnightErrant may have just wanted to play too. Don't get me wrong - I like this about Noble Savage. The tangents and speculation and heavy interaction are all things I love about his threads. It just bugs me a little to see someone's efforts bashed with such an air of self-righteousness indignation.

It isn't that odd to see things pretty freely disassembled by some of the Cartel crowd but I really don't mind saying that I don't particularly care if someone lives on this forum or not, rude is rude. There was some effort put into posting that picture and I don't enjoy the disconnect between reading post after post of finger-wagging about the 'proper' role and portrayals of the female gender in a friggin' game while even the simplest rules of common courtesy are freely ignored.

That and I just really like a nice rack.

I'm not saying that I like this re-design but there is really seems to be a pathological disdain among some of you for anything bigger than a sensible B-cup. I haven't read enough of your posts to say this applies to you specifically but there really appears to be a strongly held opinion (among some) that a bigger bustline instantly means the woman is somehow less capable. I find that about as distasteful as any other sterotype.

Also, that player posted their redesign in good faith. I understand it isn't your cup of tea and it's really up to you how you want to interact with people but maybe something a little more constructive than "GIANT JUGS! Woo hoo! Strippers! Poles!" might be warranted? Your response is as big a cliche as the outfit - which really is only trying to emulate Swan as she currently exists in game.

I actually had wanted to post to this thread for a couple days. I tend to work on my posts “offline” and then slip them in quickly and quietly from work and sometimes there is a huge, huge lapse between the time I wrote the post and actually post it. I had to chuckle that both Arctic Princess and me evoked Liefeld dismissively back-to-back, then I go on to suggest something that she strongly associates with Rob and his ilk.

Needless to say, I respectfully disagree but recognize it is all a matter of opinion. Mine would go like this: However you want to characterize it – physical idealization or base objectification – it predates Liefeld’s birth by decades upon decades and seems to be pretty equal opportunity here in the 21st century. Certainly the physiques on the male characters are no more realistic and no less alluring (if that is your thing) than the female characters and I actually see it as far more liberated than the Silver Age where particular specialized attention was paid to just what the ladies could and could not show. Goose and gander, you know.

I don’t want to see every female in comics or this game to appear as an alluring sexpot but if some are, it feels pretty true to the escapism that these activities should be. It speaks to the genre and since Sister Psyche has been characterized as a little bit luscious in previous media, I’m in favor of that lusciousness being allowed to continue. And while this is undeniably an escapist activity that counts a diverse number of people with different sensibilities and values as members of the same community, shouldn’t that also be the case with the NPCs of the game world? Some folks are reticent about their bodies and some aren’t – having every mind you encounter be an open book for all of your prolonged life could very well affect your viewpoints on modesty. It might even make your breasts bigger. You know, because of science.

I do know that kicking Shivan *** should not only be the purview of the intellectual, homely, or sensibly proportioned. Galaxy City is going to need all the help it can get.

I dig Swan's shawl as well - it is another one of those singular icon items that I like to see on the signature characters. She definitely needs a hi-rez makeover and the costume under the shaw could use a little attention due to the translucency of white on the 'with skin' options but I'm not in favor of a radical re-design that includes actual wings.

I think it well pre-dates your involvement with the game on any level but I think the view of travel powers as standard “MMO mounts” was short-sighted from the design phase. As you well know, ‘travel powers’ are potent in comics. Heck, speedsters are all about their travel powers as the very source of what makes them super. I think some of the adjustments to travel powers coming Soon™ with i21 are starting to address the issue and I’m thankful for that. I still think it can go further.

I’m definitely not trying to knock the rocketboard and I’ll likely make the purchase – depending of course on the point cost – but there are considerations above and beyond wanting to use something like this in combat. For example, I’m not too keen on getting sniped while all my toggles are off in some of the higher level zones. Thankfully, travel in CoX isn’t as hazardous as some MMOs but it could still kind of be an annoyance on rare occasions.

As you are the guy responsible for making things look cool, I love your involvement in these “All Things Art” threads because I firmly believe if we nudge your imagination towards conceptualizing something you’ve read about on here, the chances of it happening increase dramatically. Still, there is a lot of overlap with these discussions that could really use the input of the devs who work on the powers and the animations. Do they check these threads out much? There is a ton of great back and forth here that I think they could have some fun with as well.

I snipped this part because I think it was relevant to what I’m trying to say. If I recall correctly, when the original developers of this game were in the pre-design phase, they just wanted to make a MMO and turned to the superhero genre as an unexplored part of the MMO marketplace at the time. The game is a MMO that happens to be a superhero game – they didn’t really have a burning desire to make a superhero game that happened to be a MMO. If they had approached it from the latter perspective, some of the MMO staples (buffs, healerz) and thematically goofy buffing powers (thermal radiation, cold domination) may have been re-imagined and travel powers probably would have been broader in scope and a lot more interesting. I think things are changing and they are starting to jibe a little better with the genre as the game gets older and it is a good thing that the main competitors haven’t really mounted strong entries into this niche market. Even after seven years, CoX still has time to look at the inspiration and do these things right.

My design preferences tend to run along classic “Silver Age” style – I like sleek spandex, clean, simple lines and iconic looks. I absolutely loathed the Liefeld-ization of character design in the 90’s and while I think that CoX does have some signature characters with great classic looks, there is still the specter of mega-armored-cyborg-pyloned boobs-enormous gun jackassery that hangs over the industry. Admittedly, I suppose it is no less valid than my preferences but I’m just offering this for perspective on my choices.

I don’t think he’s terribly original looking but I’ve always liked the look of Statesman. He falls easily into that classic semi-patriotic Silver Age aesthetic and I think his faceplate is unique and iconic. All the signature characters (both blue and redside) need some hi-rez ultra-mode makeover love and a few could use some redesigning but I still think Statesman is solid.

A lot of my other favorites have been well-covered already: Ghost Widow, Mirror Spirit, Nightstar, and Scirocco have fantastic looks. I also like Desdamona’s simplicity but I think she actually comes off better in conceptual art and animation renders than the character does in-game.

I know you were kind of looking for just what we like here in the poll but I do have to agree with a few of the other folks about Sister Psyche. She just looks bland. What is curious about that is the fact that she translates so wonderfully in the artwork. I don’t think she needs a major redesign or anything but her character model should be updated to include a unique face, a signature hairstyle closer to what we’ve seen in the comic and the banner art, her top should be given a texture so it looks like clothing, and her shape needs to be given a little more of the va-va-voom she has in the artwork. In the game, she looks like an underfed teenager, not a shapely and psionically powerful woman.

As another aside, I’m not a huge fan of complete custom outfits for the signature heroes. When I look at Mother Mayhem, Nightstar, Captain Mako, etc. I just see a bunch of parts I don’t get to play with and I get a little annoyed. I think it’s cool for the signature heroes to maybe have their own costume patterns and/or maybe a few small unique pieces but in order to look like they inhabit the same game world, they should have to (mostly) adhere to the same rules. Players do amazing, amazing things using the tools we are given – development is surely capable of doing the same thing.

David, just for clarification: Are you asking about true travel power customization as it relates to fly? Or more one-off powers like the rocketboard? Or both? I ask because while a power that grays out all others powers might be a nice novelty, I think a large portion of the players want alternate travel powers that they can still use while fighting and that means being able to do the attack animations. As someone pointed out, Martial Arts would be pretty interesting on a broomstick.

I'd absolutely love it but would we be in a situation where the developers would feel like it isn't worth the time it would take to animate?

If it happens in this game, my guess is that it will happen as alternate versions of existing travel powers and I'm cool with that. Still, I kind of see what they were going for in the other game and while I don't think CoX needs five different "fly" power pools, I wouldn't mind if using one of the alternate animations gave an existing power a distinctly different flavor apart from the visual.

For example, if this game did do an ice slide power as an alternate super speed and maybe played around with the physics and inertia effects that sliding on a path of ice would likely entail, it could be kind of cool even if it made handling moderately more difficult than classic SS. I could get into it but I also think that the more customizations like this make the powers behave differently, the more you are talking about different versions of "power X" and then you're right back to doing what the other game does.

I don't think it's necessary but I do understand why they approached it like that.

Fundamentally, I don't disagree with the rest of your suggestions. However, I'd really, really, really hate to see CoX shy away from the "jump on substance X" to fly because that is a staple of the superhero genre that this game should be seeking to emulate at every turn and in every way. The only thing that the other game can claim as intellectual property with regard to their travel powers is those specific visuals done with those specific animations. Otherwise there is nothing in that game that hasn't been portrayed in comic books and CoX should be perfectly free to mine the same creative ore.

Still, it really is a shame that the other game did it first because it may cause some hesitancy to develop similar customizations for the players of this game for fear of looking like they don't have original ideas. Certainly there is a portion of the player base that makes that claim almost any time something similar to a feature offered in 'Game X' pops up here. My news flash to anyone who feels that way is that these aren't original ideas to begin with and they really haven't been for about 40-50 years. CoX just needs to do them in their own way. I hope that they do it soon.

I'm a HUGE supporter of comprehensive travel power customization that will give us choices that will put Cryptic's choices to shame, including some kind of ice-themed travel power(s). That said, what CO has cannot be considered an "ice slide." It's horrible to behold. . . and I actually like their travel power choice selections.

With ice slide being utilized by Iceman at Marvel and Frozone in The Incredibles, I'd guess that if you can find any other characters at DC or some of the independants that have utilized the power, it should be safe enough to do something similar with a CoX spin.

I do find the notion of straying away from the ice slide based on it being too closely identified with a single character kind of amusing considering the claws that CoH launched with in 2004. Oh, how times have changed.

As an aside, a "natural" claws option should be totally doable now. Just have a choice of "natural claws" cue a set of alternate open-handed swiping animations, pick your monsterous glove option of choice, and then go to town.

In all fairness, I did it first.

From the bottom of my MMO dollar I thank you and look forward to the progress on these issues. Considering that I’m working on a suggestion proposing a number of alternate effects and/or animations for a few powers (primarily the travel powers), it occurs to me that some of what I’d like to suggest could be enhanced by adding a “travel power only” classification to the trail auras once we reach a point that we can (a) turn off the obscuring effects of some travel powers and (b) have more than one aura at a time. As an example, I love lightning path for one of my characters but I really only want it when he’s super speeding – right now the effect is mostly obscured by the super speed glow. If I had the option of turning that glow off, I’d still have the issue of getting the lightning path with any and all movement and the only workaround would be devoting a costume slot for super speed only. I seldom do specialized multi-costumes anyway (I think superheroes should generally have their one iconic look) so I’m actually one of the people that could do this rather painlessly. Other people who may love multiple costumes AND want the paths with their travel powers only are not as lucky.

The upcoming fire trail looks great and it will look awesome with super speed provided the glow from SS can be turned off. That said, I think this “blazing trail” could seem a little odd when one is just calmly walking from point A to point B. A “travel power” only option that cued the aura to work only when a tier 3 travel power was toggled on would be awesome. I love to think how the seismic path aura would work with super jump with every landing resulting in cracks and fissures in the pavement. Is there anything much cooler than that?

It was the end of a long dry spell, believe me.

I'm back to work next week so it's also back to not being able to make very many of these contests but I had a great time with them while I could! First place in the themed contest on Tuesday, honorable mention on Thursday, and another win on Friday redside. It was a great!

I'm off work this week so I can actually make this CC but I was hoping for some clarification: When you guys say Cartoon, do you mean just an original character with a cartoon theme or should we be evoking a known property with a wink and a nudge?

Forgive me if the answer is obvious from previous contests but I can rarely take part in these and when I can, it's usually on a Thursday.

It's also be nifty if Hurl had a customization option of "random" where you might hurl a chunk of the street, a small car, motorcycle, the limp body of the enemy you are currently engaged with, etc. A little like Propel but with less of a mess.

Yes, I completely understand what they are doing but you and I have a different perspective in how it fits into the timeline of the game. Galaxy's Last Stand doesn't sound like it's meant to be an ongoing battle - it's a singular event. For you and me and everyone else's characters who are Level 2 or higher, it will be in the past. As in "What do you mean there's no Galaxy anymore? I knew I shouldn't have taken that Keyes in Praetoria!" For those characters, they missed it and didn't even get a shot at defending it.

For your Level 1 zoning for the first time, it's a current event and no matter what minor successes happen during Galaxy's Last Stand, the end result is still that you pick your side and leave the wasteland. After you leave, the area which will presumably still occupy the same space will be "too dangerous" to re-enter.

At least, I would have bet that I read that quote but I can't find it now. Between official announcements, interviews, wikis, dev posts, discussion, and debate, it's definitely entirely possible that I'm mis-remembering the whole deal. I'm just not interested enough to keep looking.

If you are looking at it as an ongoing battle, I think it's worth mentioning that it isn't the case with the Outbreak tutorial. By the end of Outbreak, the formula has been delivered and the nightmare is over. And even if you did it all alone at 3am in the morning within an empty zone, my character was there and so was everyone else's that went through the tutorial. It's meant to be a singular event.

In any case, I much would prefer that Galaxy exist as a smouldering ruin where even a team of Incarnates can expect to meet their demise in minutes rather than have it be cordoned and declared off-limits. "Look, I know that you are an Incarnate with the powers at the Well at your command but the PPD put up this sawhorse for a reason! Get back to the Rikti War Zone!"

I mean, we're going to need something to do when we're all Tier 4 Omegas, right?

This. I'm hoping the zone re-emerges because I think I recall it being referred to as "too dangerous" to re-enter in some of the i21 hoopla. The words "too dangerous" shouldn't be in a hero or villain's vocabulary.

Maybe it the end end game zone where Incarnates go to die?

I'd sign for this too. I've had a number of ghostly characters over the years that I much rather would have slapped an aura on than get stealth, only to have it detoggle every once in awhile to ruin the effect. This would be awesome.

I’m not so ungrateful as to call the trail auras a fail because I’m sure they work perfectly fine for a lot of people but it is a major limitation that they use up your aura spot. I look forward to us being able to sport dual auras and I hope that gets scheduled fast. Even so, another major weakness of the trails is that often times the effect is semi-obscured by the effects of other powers. My lightning trail on one character is fairly unnoticeable when super speed is toggled on and it honestly looks a little silly when the character is walking.

Personally, I’d like to see most of the trail auras (and a lot of new ones) enhanced and included in some comprehensive power pool customization. I know this is a frequent player request and I’m guessing that it is on the menu but if you guys start with anything, I think the travel power pools are the place to start. It’d be much cooler to add a lightning effect, fire trail, ice slide with appropriate sliding animation (you can approximate a “poor man’s” version now with power slide and the frost trail), etc. to your super speed that only operates when you have the power toggled on than leaving a trail of slush behind your character as they saunter across Pocket D.

I’m only speaking for myself when I say I’d spend my points to customize travel powers. It’d be nice if it was included in my VIP membership but if paying money gets it done and done fast, I’d be up for it.

Honestly, the effects for things like cold domination and thermal radiation aren’t only ugly, they are thematically silly. I realize that buffs are a staple of MMOs but since they aren’t really woven heavily into superhero genre, I’m of the opinion that they need to be subtle first and foremost. I want the boost as much as anyone but I don’t particularly want my character to be set on fire, encased in ice, or surrounded with little flaming rocks. They definitely need a redesign but I’d also vote for Null the Gull having his mighty winged powers extended to include nearly anything another player can do to alter your character’s visual representation on a whim.