Ars Valde

Fair enough, the 200% Crit was more of a flavor thing, I'm happy with them simply getting a 1.2 Scalar Mod, Out of Hide Crits recharging Placate sounds good, but if thats the case, increase their base Crit rate to 15% and do away with the teaming buff. The teaming buff might put them far over the top otherwise.

Personally, AS should have its Interrupt time decreased, or no interruption at all. Or it should have a bonus to it that risking using it during battle is worthwhile (Like a -Res component)

Keyes is not a hard trial. Lets see you solo the groups of Warworks and IDF that are chilling around there and then tell me your regen is on par with Willpower or Shields or (Soon to be) EA.

The same way Claws attacks and SS attacks alternate hands, it appears Street Justice has alternate animations that will fire off.

For the new Endgame content, with iTrials and things like the Apex and Tinmage TF, even the ITF and LGTF/STF, Regen is definitely a gutter dweller. Dies quick and can never manage to stay on its feet long enough to matter. Layered Defenses are more and more the optimal way to build.

A) Flashing vs Lotus: I know, I was just doing the math for myself and for others. However on faster moving teams it'll be easier to Fire Lotus rather than waiting for everything to get into range of Flashing.

This might just be a difference of playstyle, but for any of my Scrappers cones never cut it, the same would apply to Stalkers, for me. Perhaps the Swords sets could stay with their minimal AoE and keep the fact that they can provide 30% mitigation easily with Parry/DA.

B) I'm glad we agree about the specialist deal Zem, I'm not posting just for you, but for anyone else who might think Stalkers are particularly 'good' at being Single target destroyers when they do fail in that role compared to others is all

C) Really? When fighting Marauder we're constantly moving. When Fighting Anti-Matter it's the same deal. The *only* instance on iTrials where a Stalker can really sit in one spot and lay out it's damage is on a BAF trial, and I doubt they'll let many instances of that crop up from here on out. They want to make everything more dynamic.

For basic AVs it's a ton easier to leverage that, but I don't see teams really taking the time to make sure theyre in range of their friendly stalker so he can deal more damage. Same for Phalanx Fighting for a Shielder and whatnot.

D) I know and absolutely agree. However the sets that have hide put into them (EA, Dark) usually lose mitigation (Like unsuppressed defense) on top of the fact that hide is generally a useless power once a fight starts. You can either hit and wait for hide to come back, or generally try to scrap it out and not play like a Stalker at all, losing any advantage hide has given a Stalker to start, and losing further because a Stalker has already given up mitigation in his secondary to get hide. The mitigation lost might be minor, but as is during prolonged fights Hide is generally a useless power.

Other mitigation sets start you off with mitigation, Stalkers are forced into a power that really should be inherent.

Because a Stalker is simply a Specialist that isn't special. When a Blaster, a Scrapper, A Brute, a Dom, or a Controller can do what a Stalker does (albeit in some different ways) AND do other things well, I have to wonder how special our specialist is.

Scrappers deal more damage than a Stalker does in AoE, and in a single target capacity (at least until a Stalker can get 5+ teammates within its Critical boost. However the range on that is pathetically small at 30ft and I've hardly ever seen teams crunching together like that in general play.)


I don't want the sets to give up their powers either. In a perfect world Stalkers would be able to leverage offensive secondaries like Fiery Aura and Shields just as well as Scrappers and Brutes, and their AoE attacks wouldn't have had to disappear for them to be the specialists they are.

But that unfortunately isn't going to happen. The way stalkers operate restrict them from using these offense boosting sets. A little nudge in their general damage potential doesn't seem like a bad trade for that fact.

Also the Stalker primaries that can AoE are fantastic! Those sets are great, and while I would like every set to be able to do as well in AoE as they originally were, I'm not clamoring for DM to get a free AoE or for AoEs to get buffed on Stalkers. I just wish the capacity would present itself.



Blasters may not have been the best comparison. But the idea does apply to Brutes and Scrappers easily. They each have access to more AoEs in their Primaries AND Secondaries. They are also more survivable.

Depends on your teammates. Leagues dont apply for the bonus, specifically people on your team. I think it lends itself more to testing in general how much damage a Stalker could deal to a hard single target over time vs what others could. I wish we could get results form Stalkers in the Pylon thread over in the Scrapper forums like we have for every other AT that can handle soloing AVs/GMs.

Hide is. Hide is about hitting and waiting the allotted time to get back into hide and crit again. Placate helps with this, maybe Hide needs more tricks to it. Like scoring a Non-Hide crit puts you in Hide so you can Crit back to back. Another unique trick that would improve damage and not take away from a Stalkers flavor.

Then why do any ATs have AoE at all? Why should Scrappers have AoE when Blasters and Tanks can do it?

The point isnt that everyone else can take out whats around you, and Stalkers should be forced to only fight bosses, it's that Stalkers are pidgeon holed into fighting bosses while everyone else can be more flexible.

Ice is a Single Target oriented blast set, but it still gets a cone for some AoE damage to help out. So does Sonic Blast. I don't believe Stalkers should have Lightning Rod class AoEs in each set so they dominate the entire playing field, I think theyre single target burst specialists and thats fine.

I just want a Stalker to be able to switch roles and help deal AoE damage when a team is light on that. Given the chance to take a Stalker on an AoE light TF, or a Blaster, at least I know that any Blaster can help a little on the AoE side.

Stalkers should be as flexible as every other AT, and should dominate the Melee field for Single target damage. They currently do neither. And further, with the Incarnate Trials focusing on dealing damage to hard targets that burst is absolutely useless on, they fall behind in the DPS department again because their abilities are tied into hit and run when those are a 'Beat on a sack of HP' fights.

I just want my Stalker to be as helpful as everyone else when I play them, while maintaining their unique roles. I love the idea of an Assassins Class, I've always loved Rogues. Let's give them a little love, yanno?

With Scrapper Numbers:

Lotus: 85 base, 170 Enhanced

Flashing:62 Base, 124 Enhanced

Alright. I was hyperbolistic. I apologize, I should be more accurate in what I say. I tend to over exaggerate and thats not my goal.

However, you're assuming in favor of Flashing Steel for making it seem better. Lets see we get average targets and average damage for each power.

3 Dam/2 Acc/1 Rech:

Flashing Deals 124 Damage every 4.21 seconds

Lotus deals 170 every 9.83

Average targets: Flashing caps at 5, deals its damage to 2.5 targets every 4.21 seconds:

124 x 2.5/4.21 = 73.634 average AoE DPS

170 x 5/9.83 = 86.469

So on Average, Lotus drops will outdamage Flashing Steel.

What about Maxed?

Flashing Steel, max targets of 5 = 147.26 average AoE DPS
Lotus, max targets of 10 = 172.93

So at what point does Lotus Drops lose to Flashing Steel?

Flashing Steel, 3 targets = 88.36
Lotus, 3 targets = 58.88

Flashing also wins at 4 targets, and 5 targets, if you can get 5 people in your 7 foot range consistently enough to spam it.

Lotus outpaces Flashing on large teams (Where Stalkers need help the most) and when it can leverage its larger AoE cap. Now for iTrials, and for teaming in general, Lotus drops would be better.

It'd be less efficient for Stalkers who solo to have Lotus, for damage and for endurance, but for teaming situations (In which stalkers need the most help) Lotus drops is more Damage/Endurance/Recharge efficient.


For those reasons I'd rather replace Flashing with Lotus, and add AoEs in general to Stalkers.

AT Base Max
Stalker 1204.8 1606.4
Scrapper 1338.6 2409.5


My scrapper who is IOd to the teeth and has every accolade available along with True Grit barely has 2100HP, so that is not an easy number to reach without an extreme focus on it.

However Stalkers and Scrappers have a 500 point difference almost in their caps too, my scrapper has an additional 750hp from base, and Stalkers would cap from there easily.

As for DPS wise, currently just looking at the modifiers and whatnot, Stalkers at base capability are just ahead of Tanks when it comes to damage, and are behind Scrappers and Brutes.

At max they can outshine Brutes I but not Scrappers until you get into big groups of Melee feeding their teaming Crit %


Which is another thing that needs to be adjusted, the Stalker crit bonus from teaming needs a wider radius, maybe more on par with leadership. That alone could bring their DPS up quite a bit, I know 5 teammates make a Stalkers damage equal to a Scrapper, and 8 would allow them to exceed a scrapper.

I'll be over here in the realm of reasonable people. Good luck gutting me with your butter knife.

Because you know, Flashing steel with 130 degree arc and 5 target cap is the same as Lotus Drops with a 10 target Cap and almost double the damage.

I'm not saying EM does decent AoE, I said any AoE, I'm not making double Standards, I'm asking for AoE to help the Stalker in its role as a damage dealer in an AoE centric game.

I really hope the devs DO hurry and pump out Street Justice and Titan Weapons so that sets that lack AoE are a minority instead of a majority, but regardless you've just ignored all the other issues that a stalker has as well with team contribution.

But hey, lets flip out and tell people with legitimate points to shut up because you know everything.

Thats good, as long as we speed Placates animation and effect up. Let them abuse their crits but dont damage their DPS for them to fire placate. Placate should be a .75 sec animation quick deal to cut right back into fighting. Also make it pulse the effect so its not bugged anymore, with mobs continuing to attack you through it because you have debuff secondary effects.

With a Half recharge, placating every 15 seconds for a powerful Crit instead of waiting once every 30 for an AS is much more useful.

Also here though youre assuming capping capabilities. The cap DOES make a difference, but even on my Brute or Shields Scrapper unless Im farming, I'm hardly ever near the cap.

So instead it looks more like...

Brutes: .75 * 2 (Fury at 50% for solo play, not terribly farfetched and Base enhancements, yea? if I'm doing the math right?) = 1.5

Scrappers: 1.25 x 1.1 = 1.375

Tankers: .8 * 1.2 = .96

Stalkers: 1.00 x 1.1 (Could give them more with Placate granting on demand Crits) = 1.1

I mean, obviously at extreme ends Tanks suffer from the lower damage cap, especially teaming, for the more extreme differences, but they can also make that up with access to some ridiculous control and AoE to help contribute more to team efforts.

I dont want to undersell stalkers, and some of the newer sets theyve been giving to the AT definitely help to bring them into a better spot when it comes to teaming, regardless of what people think.

But at the same time, the margin of difference in capability for this AT compared to how the others operate doesnt isnt enough.

Given the choice between a WP/SS Tank or a KM/Nin Stalker, I'm going to take the tank because even if they dont bring as much damage (marginally different) Bruising isnt just 20% For the tank, its 20% for the TEAM on a single target, boosting every AT around it, as well as solid AoE damage.

Why are we taking damage out of the equation?

Stalkers do two things, their role is two things:

They have a Melee Damage set, and a Secondary Mitigation set.

So either they need to tank using their secondary (Tanker side) or survive long enough to deal damage (Scrapper side)

Their primary is for damaging, and theyre supposed to be the kings of removing hard targets.

Either they need more damage, or they need to allow their team to deal more damage.

I think adding a Hefty (Like 30%) -Res buff to Assassins strike to simulate hitting someones Vitals (Maybe even increase the -ToHit thats entirely unresistable) to make constantly applying Assassins Strikes, even Mid battle when it slows your DPS to do otherwise, a really viable and HELPFUL thing.

And adding in more AoEs.

You cant give them more control, you cant give them more mitigation because they start to step on Brute and Tanker toes, and you can give them more Debuff/Control but in the end it'll again step on Tanker toes and not help them in the end game.

More damage, or making them more useful for team play. Preferrably both.

I said burst AoE is king, I didnt say all sets had burst AoE. The best operating stalker set? It has burst AoE in spades with Lightning Rod, Thunder Strike and Jacobs Ladder, along with Chain Induction for extra hits.

I don't have double standards, and I wasnt asking for EM to have burst AoE, I was asking for ANY AoE to help on teams when not everyone does have burst.

We dont always team with Blasters, or Shield Scrappers, or Double stacking Rage SS brutes, so for the instances where we are just doing general play itd be nice for Stalkers to have just one AoE, that can actually be a bit bursty with their BU and their Crit chance, to help speed things along. I dont expect them to shred through minions, but they should at least be able to help more than single target spamming to kill minions one at a time.

And if you dont think Spin is 'Bursty' go look at the low level farming thread in the Brute Forums I know Spin is different on Scrappers/Stalkers/Widows vs Brutes, but it is an extremely powerful PBAoE attack regardless.

Stalkers are Burst ST and thats about it, the more successful stalker sets combine Burst ST with medium AoE (or an Extreme AoE focus with Elec Melee, adding in some Single Target Burst to a set that could use it only made it better)

Whoops. I thought they had the same Mods. Must be old confused memories.

I was mostly referring to how tanks easily out-AoE any stalker build, and Bruising for a Single Target does put them almost on the same playing field.

And that's for an AT with a whole ton more Mitigation.

Also I was only referring to HP Caps, not HP bases, with Caps that are the same as the ATs not intended to have any direct Mitigation, that feels kind of weak. But again, I didnt necessarily feel that it needed to be changed either