Xanthas

It's the Wookie "defense".
"Does my client look like a wookie? Does he look like a Wookie??"

"Look at the monkey! Dance monkey, dance!"

Ok so after a couple hundred responses asking for at least some reasoning behind this change.. still no response, even with I5 live for a week.

"dev response thread'???? There isn't a SINGLE dev response in this thread.

So, since there isn't a 'dev response', I guess we can treat this as a normal thread and post to the same thread w/o waiting for the fabled 'dev response'.

As such. I again ask WHY WAS THIS CHANGE MADE?
HOW was it game breaking or unbalancing to let stealthed characters get *1* free shot before being seen?
Keep in mind that once you made your shot, all the mobs you aggrod would STILL get their shot off on you, even if you moved out of range or out of sight. YOU STILL GOT RETALIATION!
So..*W*H*Y*??
Further, how does it make any sense that a sniper gets shot at for simply *RAISING* his weapon - long before actually *FIRING* the weapon? A sniper like that would not last long in the business...

So, tell me again the point of stealth now?

Xan

After lurking for a year just reading these boards, this topic finally drove me to registering and responding.

First and foremost, much as most of the other players, I *really* want to know *WHY* any changes are needed to stealth?

Now on to my thoughts on this. My main toon is a blaster (a devices blaster no less); so, much of my views will be blaster-centric (for better or worse, that's the case).
So, what's the point of taking a stealth power? STEALTH. As inane as that may seem, the changes that are coming seem to forget that simple fact. Why would I take a STEALTH power, if I can not be STEALTHY?

Defense: as was mentioned many, many times: what's the point of a defense buff on stealth powers, if it gets suppressed as soon as I need it? (PvE *or* PvP, it's really irrelevant which in this case). Also, 10 seconds?? Are you kidding? The 4 second suppression on travel powers is bad enough, but 10 seconds?? Do you realize how much can happen in 10 seconds in this game? [And as for the PvP aspect, if you can't do something to me in 4 seconds of seeing me, you don't belong in PvP anyway - so don't say that you need 10 seconds for PvP]. I'm not going to go into the whole defense reduction bit in this thread, since that's a whole other can of worms.

Supression: Why? What's the point of suppression? As soon as I attack any mobile, the entire group that the mobile was in sees me AND they automatically retaliate. What would suppression do? It would just allow ALL the other mobiles anywhere near me to ALSO agro.
Is this really the goal? I thought the point of a lot of these changes was to increase the importance of TACTICS? Well, what tactics are we left with when as soon as we attack our defense is gone, our stealth is gone, every mob in the area *IMMEDIATELY* retaliates???

Also, suppression *SHOULD NOT* happen when we are attacked, it should only happen when we attack! Reason? Simple. I'm running down Steel Canyon using SS. I run over a group of purples, 1 of which notices me and shoots. Should I then be immediately dropped from super speed, my stealth dropped, my defenses dropped? Come on. If it's not meant to be used in combat, and it's not meant to be used to travel stealthily (while avoiding combat)..When are you actually supposed to use it??
Further, if supression *MUST* go in, for the love all that is good, PLEASE do not supress me until AFTER I have finished actually DOING something. In the sniper example listed earlier, with the sniper in the grass standing 5 feet from a squad, should the sniper be seen AS he pulls his gun out *OR* only seen *AFTER HE ACTUALLY SHOOTS*???? I don't seen *ANY* reasonable thought behind having supression activate upon a power activation versus upon a power COMPLETION. As a blaster, if I run into a mob and fire off Inferno, the mobs should NOT see me until I've actually blown them up, not as I'm stealthily powering up my explosion.

All this and so much more makes me ask: WHY? Seriously, WHY? What is the reasoning behind this? As a Fire/Dev blaster(no 'flames' please ) I really need to ask why? I started a year ago, and when I was looking through the manual, I thought 'ooh, a stealthy fire/dev blaster sounds great!', so that's what I rolled up.
A year later:
1)Trip mines no longer work unless you are next to the mobs when they set off the trip mines
2)SS in, TM, SS out, no longer works due to supression on SS.
3)TM, SS in, pull mobs over TM no longer works since the mobs can literally STAND ON the TM's and not set them off.
4)The only couple defense powers we could get are being dramatically decreased/removed (haste, hover, cj, touch, weave).
4b)Defiance? While it's a nice thought, no blaster would *intentionally* sit at low health for a little extra damage - especially since we are 'glass cannons'
5)SG supressing CD/SS? Um...Last I checked, hitting a mobile with SG did not agro them. Why does activating a NON-AGGRO power supress stealth? (It would be the same as saying HASTEN should now supress stealth too, after all, you just set your hands on FIRE in front of the bad guys, so they saw you!). Please. Think about it. Only powers that induce aggro should supress stealth!

Changes happen; I can deal with changes to the game, changes to powers (hell, I played EQ for 5 years as a Monk, War, Druid - classes that were changed dramatically throughout). But change just to change is not a good thing. Also, changes that strip away all your options are also not a good thing.
Ugh. Wow that's a long post...and there's still more to mention; but I guess this will have to do for now.
Bottom line to the devs: THINK about WHY you want to implement the changes, and then THINK about what all the implications are to players! Sometimes just having a goal in mind and moving towards that goal is not enough. Evaluating the road taken to the goals as often times more important than achieving those goals!

Xan