Windenergy21

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Possibly. But I agree the radius would need to be reduced for it to be used in anything approaching a tactical manner.

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Well I feel it even too large for it's current version. A repel with that large of a radius is too unwieldy for most maps in this game.

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I agree completely. Hurricanes radius is still about perfect IMO. But with the hopes that because it doesn't debuff that it would have the repel value of hurricane before it got nerfed.

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The acc debuff from T_T, Nightfall, and Torrent all stack. With standard rech slotting and a little bit of +rech from set bonuses you can easily get the mobs acc debuffed to -58.98% with out adding any debuff slotting (more with hasten and a little bit more +rech).

Blackstar simply isn't needed as a debuff by ANY /Dark defender and it's totally redundant for Forcefields/Dark


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Except that you aren't going to be using torrent that often. If you are then you're in a situation with a perfect corner where you don't need ANY debuffs at all.

The debuff makes up for the fact that you used it in the case of ff/dark. On any other combo the debuff from blackstar basically acts as a 20 second hold as the enemies won't be hitting you.

And lol @ milady's hearing nothing i've said so far, by saying its not the only choice to pick blackstar, or for STILL thinking i'm so Gun-ho about it that you HAVE to use it every single time it's up. I am simply granting its worth as a power, NOWHERE near advocating it as a must have.

It entertains me how little you value ANY other opinion unless it's your own.

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and he's made it a point to try to contradict every post of mine that he finds.


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Sayeth the tea pot.

Not 2 separate playstyles, 2 separate SITUATIONS. I'm all my stormies i've been in both where hurricane is better, and where the use of OG + TC/DP is better.

Specifically in general when you don't have a corner to push them into with hurricane.

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While I agree that blackstar is probably skippable based on what you have said thus far, I think it's skippable mainly because the power is to situational, not because it doesn't deal enough damage. With enough +Acc sets, and a acc/to hit debuff set, it would be able to hit +4's without to much problem, but it's not a power I'd be using every group. Maybe only against groups which have an AV or EB.

Using this power as a situational power, you won't need to worry about slotting it for recharge, or damage. It would only need accuracy and to hit debuff. Combined with power build up shields, it would be just as effective as having your toggles running. I do think that blackstar would work better with other primaries though which don't relie on toggles as much. I could see a TA/dark taking blackstar.

I just don't see the need for a powerful to hit debuff like that of a FF/Dark when I have several AoE debuff attacks which should be enough to create a decent synergy between soft capped defense and -tohit.

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Because there ISN'T a "NEED" for the power. Its there for fun. It has its fun, and its uses, and its not going to mess you up to use it. That is all, and that is ALL i've been saying lol, Milady's does not seem to be getting that.

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If I'm starting a team and I pick up a FF/dark and his opening comments are something like "I'm a great FF/dark! I have Blackstar and use it!" My response is to punt the AE pl'd n00b off the team and find someone that knows what the heck they are doing.


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I don't even have to read the rest of the comment to flat out obliterate your statement by saying, that if his comment SAYS "i use blackstar!" You SHOULD expect noobish behavior from him.

I'm not saying its the end all power, simply that it has its use, and if used properly can benefit the team by being used in situations where its damage can amount to enough of a use tied in with its debuff to valididate the power.

Set bonuses can also play a factor in the selection of such a power.

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ED soft capped Blackstar does 343.5 damage. Since /Dark lacks Aim and FF/ lacks any damage buffing/resitance debuffing power, that's all the damage you'll get out of it barring a few small percentage points from set bonuses and adding in Assault if you choose to take it. That's barely enough to kill minions.


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Hence why its mainly used as a fun power till you can get soul drain or power build up to boost its damage for better use.

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Blackstar has 105% base accuracy and since FF/Dark has neither Aim nor Build Up you'll need at least 1 Acc (2 if you are using it against +4/5s).

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Hence why in general after suggesting ANY FF defender to pick up tactics, why i slot my nukes with a acc/dam scirocco, plus multiple accuracy set bonuses.

And giving up the "important" 6th slot set bonus? that is LARGELY based on opinion. I 5 slot my nukes, in the case of blackstar scirocco acc/dam, dam/rech, for the regen bonus, and then multi strike dam/rech, cleaving blow dam/rech, and the cheap version of dark watchers despair that has debuff/rech in it. Like i said it only needs like 5.3% debuff slotted, so it would only take that one of whatever IO with debuff in it to do so.

Again, not ONCE did i say it was the end all power. I'm SAYING that it does have a purpose, aside from being plain old fun.

AS far as you FREAKING out about retoggling so much, the only toggles that will make a difference for 20 seconds would be assault and tactics. I'm fairly certain the team will survive without them for 7.34 seconds. Depending on the teammates who most slot/IO/bonus for enough accuracy then the really only toggle would be assault until the debuff from blackstar would wear off.

And i love how you say "with a playstyle like that" without even considering how that sounds. Not "how you use the nuke" its "if you even use it, i will kick you" To me that just sounds like your so unconfident in your own abilities that you can't survive with only the ally shields, is just laughable.

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IMO Force Bolt is the power that holds the set back the most. I know the PvPers love it, but with force bubble and repulsion field, in most any team its pretty much useless. Or its "useful" for those people who don't realize that its not really needed for anything. If it were at least given moderate damage and turned into knockdown perhaps might give it some decent use.

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I actually like the power the way it is. I am able to keep atleast 2-3 bosses on their butts when the rest of the team works on the Mob. I look at it as also being a surgical scalpel when it comes down to placement or 'thinning the herd' by knocking things off ledges to buy the team time to take out the adds or what not

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Autohit repulsion field...

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I've been arguing for a -res effect to be added to a FF power since about I4 or so. Good luck with that one.

Personally, I'd love to see it added to Force Bubble.

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I can't see it functioning well in Force Bubble. Repulsion Bomb however goes in rather seamlessly. It would also be nice if they added a -Def component to Force Bolt or just upped the damage of on that some.

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IMO Force Bolt is the power that holds the set back the most. I know the PvPers love it, but with force bubble and repulsion field, in most any team its pretty much useless. Or its "useful" for those people who don't realize that its not really needed for anything. If it were at least given moderate damage and turned into knockdown perhaps might give it some decent use.

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There's really no reason for a Bubbler to take their nuke. You don't want your toggles dropping and neither does your team.

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That's not really going to matter considering especially with shields on them that the mob you are attacking WILL have their accuracy floored for 20 seconds after using Blackstar (62.5% base debuff)

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Except that with a 1/2 strength defender nuke you won't kill any thing but minions, plus the 5% that you always miss, the 5% that always hit you, all the mobs that were outside of blackstar's radius, purple patch for higher level and high rank mobs and the 5+ (or more) seconds that it will take you to recover enough end after the crash and retoggle every thing while you and your team are being smacked around by the stuff that is no longer debuffed, with out your mez protection, without a good chunk of your defense, fully aggroed and locked on to you.

Good plan!

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Or you could use it INTELLIGENTLY, and make sure it has enough accuracy, and only use it when its going to hit the whole mob, so that is not an issue. With 5.3% to hit debuff slotted on blackstar, its debuff Plus slotted ally shields will floor +4 enemies without a problem.

There is also this thing, called a blue. Its this very inventive thing the devs made, oh, back in, BETA. Its amazing! It lets you use it after a nuke, to retoggle *GASP* before the debuff wears off!!! AMAZING!

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Force Fields beats cold up one side and down the other if you have a large number of non-mezprotected squishies on the team.

Force Fields is a pure buff set, Cold like Thermal (controller/corruptor) is a combination buff/debuff set. It really depends on what you need for the team which primary you prefer. I've teamed with quite a few more FF players than Colds though most teams only have a single defender if there are any at all.

All that said I can't stand teaming with a Cold. I dislike both the graphics and the audio that Cold has.

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I would personally choose cold for my team. The graphics i dont mind, though for both cold and thermal, they REALLY just need to get rid of those stupid floating rocky chunks and that would fix a lot of the graphical problems IMO.

Cold offers a lot more than FF does. First off sleet is an uber control and debuff tool. And Snowstorm is a huge help in slowing down the rate of incoming damage.

Arctic fog , while not as much defense or offering the mez of dispersion bubble, offers good resistance to fire/cold/energy damage. As well as some good slow resistances. And its stealth factor can be a big boon sometimes.

Heat loss is pretty awesome for endurance recovery, and its debuff isnt bad either.

It also offers some debuffs and - regen for AV fights which FF is near useless against to help take them down at least.

Now don't get me wrong, i love teaming with force fielders too, but the benefits of cold greatly outweight a force fielders use.

TBH, FF does need a boost to offer some kind of debuff or something to help the team kill faster. Possibly a -res in repulsion bomb etc.

And none of these builds i have see in this entire thread have picked up Oppressive gloom WHY? Dark pit is kind of ridiculous how long its rech vs. duraiton stats are for a mag 2. Against high levels your not going to be keeping them constantly stunned. Oppressive gloom lets you alternate between thunder clap, and dark pit to keep even entire mobs of bosses stunned to oblivion

The damage it does is little and siphon life more than makes up for it.

I'm personally not much a fan of procs, even though my fire/rad is beastly with them, they are a hassle and its a specific build using it.

On my storm/dark which i love to death went for regeneration, recharge, some acc and recovery. Overall very beastly and fun to play.

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So, I've been playing my new Force Field / Dark Blast Defender for a little over a month now, and I ran into this the other day.

"Don't bubble me, please. And turn off your big bubble. I don't like the way they look on my toon. Nothing against you personally."

Now, I've been playing the game off and on for four years. I've heard of people asking not to be speed boosted, and asking Thermals not to buff them. This is the first time I can ever recall someone asking not to be bubbled, and for Dispersion Bubble to be turned off. WTF?

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That's when you tell them about this nice little option called "supress player FX"...

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There's really no reason for a Bubbler to take their nuke. You don't want your toggles dropping and neither does your team.

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That's not really going to matter considering especially with shields on them that the mob you are attacking WILL have their accuracy floored for 20 seconds after using Blackstar (62.5% base debuff)

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and no, it doesnt work the way you are describing:

The debuffs you mentioned are set in stone, X debuff for Y time


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wow, i don't think you even came CLOSE to understanding what i was saying when i was relating the DPS calculation to how this debuff would work...

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what I was asking is why would you slot a nuke with 3 end redux, it drains 100% end regardless...


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WOW you STILL missed what i was saying. I was just proving how little endurance you could possibly need to fire one off, because you said it could only be done above 50% endurance.

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Make Electric armor the bar-none best armor due to having a technical perfect resistance to all damage. (in a normal encounter at the least)


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As long as they are in range and stay there and you keep your powers slotted with end drain. And perfect? No Enemies still resist more as they scale up in level just like any other resistance/-resistance will apply on them.


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Make enemies weaken themselves as they fight, seeing as they DO use some end in a fight (at least in a solo encounter).

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I can count on one hand the number of enemies i've actually seen use more endurance then they recover at any given time. This is hardly an issue, and seeing how end drains are % based, is easily fixed by increasing their max end and lowering their recovery a bit.

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a -dam applied to end drain would be the same as it is now: binary, either you drain alot at once, or it is too little to worth mentioning

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How do you figure? If you are stacking end drain, or in my other scenario of more max end but less recovery for NPCs, youll be chunking with them slowly as they attack. 10% -damage would be fairly easy to obtain with a couple hits of a normal elec attack which seems worth it to me. And the big drianers would have even more value on their own.

If the end drain was "too little to mention" then it would'nt be near enough to reach the amount needed in your KB scenario either.

I fail to see how an average 10-25% -damage on the enemies is not worth mentioning.

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You may be at the damage cap, but the multiple fulcrums will still debuff the bosses even more.

Not to mention the multiple stacked speed boosts, and either controls or blasts that the kin defender/troller will be bringing to the table.

Really depending on how you slot your attacks you can benefit from 5-6 speed boosts for the +rech, which will always help in a farm situation.

Multiple kins also allow for more of the initial fulcrum buff that centers around the caster to hit those blasters that don't go into melee to get more +damage.

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After 1 or 2 kins, you're much better off adding aoe -res to a team to give that capped damage even more bang for the buck. There are a lot of sets that offer aoe -res so it's usually pretty easy to pick up. Also, adding variety means you pick up some additional surivability debuffs/buffs which is also helpful.

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I wasn't saying 5-6 kins is BETTER than other teammates. I was just saying they it can still help to have another one added to the team for various said reasons.

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you can benefit from 5-6 speed boosts

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Nothing- not even my own carelessness and stupidity- gets me killed faster. Nothing like rushing into a mob to AoE hold... rushing past... rushing WAY past... hey, rushing into a whole brand new mob-! Splat. I feel like Elwood Blues just glued my gas pedal to the floor.

Of course, you'd have to find more than one kin who knew how to SB before you could get in that kind of trouble.

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Um... Don't try superspeed. Because there IS a running speed cap, and a run in SS will do it (may need swift cant remember)

So 5-6 speed boosts is going to be the same speed as 2 speed boosts in most scenarios.

and not being able to control yourself with that speed, is your problem.

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thats not the point, and why would you do that?


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Because that was the point. You said you can't nuke if your end is below 50%, i was disproving that.


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Lets look at it this way:

Ko Blow on a boss does 1000 damage, and Jab will do lets say 250

Reduce it by 90% and it becomes 900 and 225

Using your method, we would be hit for 1125 damage

If KO Blow didnt become a factor: 250 damage

Hmn....



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Because my change is a consistent mechanic across the entire game, without nitpicking certain powers and putting restrictions on EVERY enemy in the game.

Its a simple mechanic to help out endurance draining powers. Yours is an entire reworking of all NPC's AI's. Lets think about which is more plausible.

Not to mention the scale. Say a blaster uses short circuit. While my scenario would still be useful, slotted lets say taking their damage down to 75% damage.

Yours taking out KB is a much more significant hit to the NPC, especially considering mezzing effects being taken out by this.

There is no way in your scenario it would make enough sense to gimp the NPC that fast. Then we get into the already pre-ordained logic, where feasably taking the KB out of the picture, is already going to be close to where they barely have enough end to use it in the first place.


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what a horrid example. Unlike those debuffs, something tied to endurance IS FLAWED because NPCs RECOVER their END.

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They also recover from mez effects and debuffs EXACTLY THE SAME, just not gradually.

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So unlike fulcrum shift's debuff, where it just stays static, a dam debuff attached to endurance will allways fluctuate because as the enemy recovers END, it gets stronger

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And that is a problem why? Its a debuff, and is better than what we have now. So what if it fluctuates. That just means you'll want to work to keep their end down.

And it would more turn out to how you calculate DPS.

Its not that its "stronger this time than at that time" You'll look at the average -damage effect you'll be getting out of it overall.

That's like saying knockout blow is better at taking out bosses than haymaker.

It may be a bigger hit first, but haymaker wins out because its DPS(average) means that its more damage in the time it takes to take out the boss.

So while were not saying its going to be, or should be a better debuff than a straight damage debuff power like FS or poison gas arrow, the validity of this change would be well worth implimenting.

Thats not true dark. There are lots of situations where things work differently for NPC than they do for players. This would of course be an NPC only change.

And DRmike. It wouldnt need to be a damage buff applied to the end drain attacks. While it *could* be done, what about powers that also do just -recovery like drain psyche.

For those very very few enemies that actually concsistently drain themselves. They could either do the simple change they did for lts/bosses and give them a higher base max end, or make their attacks use less.

Considering end drain works on a % basis i'd imagine simply increasing their max end would be more appropriate.

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Flag it so that it "greys" below 75% end. for nukes I think you cannot use them below 50%


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Yes you can, you can use a nuke with 12ish endurance if you slotted it for max end reduction.

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90% effectiveness vs Not getting hit by it at all...hmn

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When every other attack they can do is dealing less damage as well.

Hmm, so they can miss with knockout blow, and still be dealing less damage with their other attacks? No, that couldn't ever happen either...

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not every aspect, seeing as without -rec, they just get strong again

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Um, so you're saying things like the damage debuff from fulcrum shift and the -to hit of fearsome stare and every control in the game is flawed because the enemies can recover back from it? Yeah, good one...

You may be at the damage cap, but the multiple fulcrums will still debuff the bosses even more.

Not to mention the multiple stacked speed boosts, and either controls or blasts that the kin defender/troller will be bringing to the table.

Really depending on how you slot your attacks you can benefit from 5-6 speed boosts for the +rech, which will always help in a farm situation.

Multiple kins also allow for more of the initial fulcrum buff that centers around the caster to hit those blasters that don't go into melee to get more +damage.

Um, if they are at 75% endurance, things like Knockout Blow will not be as damaging to begin with in my change...

There is no way for them to legitimately change the way an npc uses an attack based on how much end they have if they "technically" have enough end to use it.

The mechanics to do such a change would be worse than their "presumed (aka lied)" reason for not letting recharge affect pets attack powers.

With my change it fixes pretty much every issue of end drain, while making complete sense too. Think about it, if you are tired, are you going to be throwing a punch as hard as you could if you were just starting a figtht? No.

AM is only mez resistance, not protection, so your toggles will still drop if mezzed which is really the biggest concern.

And i have a fire/rad as well, consdiring +4s and the low base accuracy of fire cages vs duration resistance from a +4 boss, you can still get scatter with hotfeet.

My suggestions were for a very good conjunction on any team that has the simple basics such as a tank.

With my suggestions, its you, and the tank, the rest is fluff for damage.

FYI, fulcrum shift is the same 20% -damage as enervating field. However, it can be stacked to be 40% -damage, unlike EF.

It also has a larger radius, and will not drop if you are mezzed.

And while true rad has the -to hit from RI, fully slotted against +4s is a 18.72% to hit debuff. (tahts before any possible resistances a boss has against it, that is just per +4 level)

True not bad overall, but continues to convey that it is gone if you are mezzd, or if the target drops.

But the main thing, with that damage debuff to begin, and your transfusion/ID and controls, the tank should be abound to survive anyways, whilst having the aggro.

SO between the two in this situation rad really isn't all that much better for what the kin brings to the table in this type of a situation.

Yes EQ and IS will affect bosses, unless the player gave them resistance powers to said effects.

As far as what you have in mind, i'd suggest something like a plant/kin with perma creepers.

Kin obviously for SB and fulcrum, and the creepers are a constant source of slow and immobilize and knockdown to keep the bosses in place.

Also, if you slot seeds of confusion, confusing the bosses, while entertaining in and of itself, is very fruitful in a situation where you will be doing most of the damage to them, especially after you are buffed with fulcrum, and they're damage is debuffed by them.

I'd suggest picking up tactics, and of course roots to help keep the bosses in place. Vengeance is also very useful should a squishy or even the tank die during said events.

Fly trap can also help immobilize, though they still REALLY need to fix him, as if he gets in his entangle roots chain he'll do that pretty much forver, but if he can get into a mode where he uses fling thorns often is very nice as that power does -defense to the bosses as well.

Also when they are bunched up tree of life can have some value in this respect when the mobs are close, and if the enemies are doing smash/lethal ID REALLY can help a tank survive so many tough boss attacks.

For such reasons something like earth/kin is also very good. Lots of defense debuff, in addition to all the slows and immobilizes with stone cages that hit more accurately due to the defense debuff.

Depending on the tank a good combo can also be earth/sonic or plant/sonic. The shields help the tank survive a lot perhaps on a tank where it has its own good self heal or regeneration, and the -resist of disruption field is nice, though due to scaling and resistances not quite as good as +damage.

TA is also a good secondary with disruption arrow, glue arrow and acid arrow as debuffs/slows, as is storm, but it leads its animations to be a bit laggy for things like farms, though if you keep the bosses immobilized lightning storm helps a lot when they are all bunched up as does tornado if you are spamming your aoe immobilize so they don't knock back and of course the debuffs from freezing rain.

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slotting/PB also boosts the amount -recovery you do

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Since when? Since when does PB even ACCEPT anything other than recharge reductions and possibly end redux?

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Well two things could improve Short Circuit without changing it with extra work for Castle/Back Alley Brawler:

1. The drain triggers when the animation starts.

2. Mobs can't aggro until the drain hits.

Right now, you can be attacked the moment you start to fire it.


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I've already suggested the fix for this, oh for years now, which makes me sad. But giving the "rain" animation to short circuit which is used by powers like rain of fire and freezing rain, would do both things. It would start the damage/drain at the beginning of the animation eliminating a lot of what you just said.

It would also take its cast time down from 3 seconds to 2.03 seconds, which helps the power overall as well but isnt an "omg overpowered" change either, with the main intent that that animation already implies that the attack hits at the beginning of its animation, and it also actually makes SENSE as an animation for short circuit.

V.S., still has its issues. The main thing IMO is that aside from it being "overlooked" when they bumped up all the blaster primary powers base damage up by 12.5% in issue 8 i think?, is that it needs improved.

Suggestions are either to increase its attack rate, give it lightning bolt as well, or give it tesla cage, or give it more significant end drain and -recovery.

As to the whole ENTIRE notion of the usefulness of end drain, and how few builds can actually make ANYTHING of it, i also for years have been suggesting a fix for it, that would make ALL end drains useful.

Its actually quite painstakingly simple in how it would work, and would make sense a lot. Going even off the base principle thought of "mobs with no end deal no damage" etc.

So the fix i suggested many many times over, was to have the damage NPC so dealt on a % basis tied to their current endurance amount.

For example:

100% end, 100% damage

75% end, 90% damage

50% end, 75% damage

25% end, 50% damage

etc.

Even on this page seeing posts about inherents? Its a proliferation thread...

ON that note, the main things i'd like to see ASAP ported, is Blue elec melee for tanks, and dark blast ported over to blasters, with possibly aim in place of dark pit (blaster set after all that type of control doesnt make much sense in a primary for them, plus, aim standard).

Of course rendered from that, i'd imagine elec armor would port to tanks, and possibly some form of dark manipulation secondary for blasters and possibly a dark mastery epic for blasters, as well as elec mastery for tanks.