Windenergy21
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I'm also in the same boat as you. While fireball of course would add added aoe damage, i'm just not comfortable with all the next to useless prerequisites needed to get to there. I'm much happier on my build with 6 slotted FA for the Gaussian globals and physical perfection.Originally Posted by MrLiberty
So enough theory crafting!
This is what an Elec/Shield looks like fighting +4's. No fireball, but by the time you are done with all the left overs, you give Lightning Rod/Shield Charge *plenty* of time to charge up. I'm not sure if fireball would be a *huge* impact to the point where you could seamlessly go from spawn to spawn simply because... stuff runs.
Not a build I built for farming or anything, just an all around scrapper I enjoy playing.
I'd be interested to see how a Fire/Shield/Blaze does it though for some comparison.
http://www.wegame.com/watch/Elec_Shield_Body_Scrapper/
If you wanted an aoe at that point you could go for energy torrent for extra if you wanted to. Not hard to use if you use cj/hurdle. -
Quote:Yes, "now" because it's incorrect. But it should be fixed shortly. And all the other attacks for the scrapper will have a higher base damage as well. For example lets look at jacob's ladder: Lets assume the 65% from AAO, and you're 85% fury
Also note that brutes and scrappers do exactly the same damage with shield charge.
Brute: 62.56 x 4.3 = 269.01
Scrapper: 103.2 x 2.6 = 268.32
About the same right? But now though you can't say when, when dealing with aoes its almost a certainty for a few, so figure in critical hits. Also any +damage bonuses per set will push the scrapper much higher than the brute will, and this is all with you HAVING to be at that high fury to try to reach the scrappers damage. For both builds which have 27.5% damage bonus in my builds:
Brute: 62.56 x 4.575 = 286.21
Scrapper: 103.2 x 2.875 = 296.7
And if you're herding you def get in close to 10 on t-strike. But when i farm i dont usually herd, but they still tend to gather in close, getting usually a minimum of 7 in t-strike. Starting the attack chain with Chain induciton, i always get 5 targets with chain. And jacobs, i usually get 3 on average in it. But likewise you'd have to reconfigure BoF as well. I certainly wouldn't say that fire mele isn't "easier" with FSC, but i wouldn't say that it trumps the elec/shield.
Also to Nihili, for what you were trying to prove, is exactly the reason i'd never suggest farming +4s by yourself. +3s when fully IOd is the sweet spot. Before your build is complete +2s go by very quickly as well. Also you're not giong to have build up up very mob, only every other mob. To average better, build up with one mob, and shield charge on the other for the fire/shield. On the elec/shield build up with SC, and then LR on its own for the other mob.
LR: 200.20 x 2.875 = 575.58
T-strike: 60.06 x 2.875 = 172.67
Fireball: 99.83 x 2.875 = 287.01
Total mob 1: 1035.26 x .65 = 672.92
Build up: +100%
Shield Charge (with upcoming corrected value): 188.86 x 3.875 = 731.83
T-Strike: 60.06 x 3.875 = 232.73
Fball = 99.83 x 3.875 = 386.84
Total Mob 2: 1434.56 x .65 = 932.46
So any level (soloing set for no bosses) will take out with the 2nd iterational mob. On mob 1, you'll be using Chain and jacobs to take care of most of anything that's left rather quickly. -
Quote:HEHE, yeah can't wait to do that :POriginally Posted by Radmind
I've got my Elec/Shield/Blaze scrapper to 48 now. with the exception of a couple LOTG 7.5s and the Zepher proc he's completely IO'd slotted up Fireball.. and most of the time you can go in with Lightning Rod + Fireball and the mob is dead.
Next mob, Shield Charge + Thunderstrike and then clean up bosses and anything that may have survived.
Eventually when I get purp sets on him he'll have Shield Charge and Lightning Rod recharging every 30 seconds.
If you want a good laugh though, run a Katie TF with 2 Elec/Shield scrappers or Tanks. With the new Exempting lvls you'll have both Lightning Rod and SHield Charge.
The mobs that spawn with Mary are dead in seconds leaving only the AV to go. -
Quote:Yes i know, but for only lasting 5 seconds what i was saying was that for when it goes off which isn't guaranteed, it doesn't last long enough to be even much use to anything else that recharges. It simply doesn't last long enough, that i get better mileage having the aoe in this case t-strike, recharge faster than the super tiny bit it helps on the other powers.Originally Posted by Aliana Blue
The proc's not there to recharge Thunder Strike.
It's there to recharge Lightning Rod and Shield Charge, which should already be at 90%+ recharge -
Quote:its a placebo effect, the buff doesn't last anywhere near long enough to really matter for the most part. I even tried placing one in both psy tornado, and one in repulsion bomb on my ff/psy defender. Even when they seemed to fire each time i used the powers, they were much better off when slotted with a common recharge IO. And likewise for the reliability i didn't really even notice it on anything else that mattered either.Originally Posted by Aliana Blue
Try the Force Feedback +Rech proc in TS, I don't know if it's placebo effect or what (the mechanics of that proc make my head hurt) but it seems to go off a lot, and it's TASTY!
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Quote:Yes FSC is DPS wise far better than lightning rod, but elec doesn't JUST have lightning rod. Oh, and um... you can still pick up fireball on the elec/shield too......Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
I beg to differ. I have an IO'ed out electric/shield/mu brute and fire/shield/blaze scrapper, and can easily compare them side by side. LR and shield charge are great but FSC recharges extremely fast (20 seconds base vs. 90 seconds for LR) as do fireball. Combustion is not needed.
What I've noticed is while both the electric/shield and fire/shield can wipe out an entire spawn (electric/shield in two attacks - LR+SC, fire/shield in 3 - FSC+SC+FB), the electric/shield will kill the second group noticeably slower while the fire/shield can still use FSC and fireball. Both can wipe out every other mob group pretty much instanteously, the difference is in the mobs in between. Thunderstrike, Jacob's Ladder and Chain Induction are no match for Fire Sword Circle.
Alternating LR/SC for each mob. t-strike and FB as one above mentioned, will be the key. Chain and jacob's are icing.
Assuming conditions are the same, 65% damage from AAO, not quite max but good high average when farming. And assuming 1/3 recharge on attacks when IO slotted.
Fire Melee:
FSC: 96.98 + 20.03 (avg damage of dot per chance) = 117.01/20s rech/10 targets
BoF: 85.08 + 20.03 = 105.11/10s rech/10 targets
Fireball: 79.8 + 20.03 = 99.83/32s/16 targets
Shield Charge: (133.46 is current, should be fixed soon to 188.86)
188.86 x 2.6 = 491.04
FSC: 117.01 x 2.6 = 304.23/ 6.66s/ 10 targets
BoF: 105.11 x 2.15 = 225.99/ 3.33s/ 10 targets
FB: x 2.6 = 259.59/ 10.66s/ 16 targets
SC: 188.86 x 2.6 = 491.04/30s/16 targets
Elec Melee:
Lightning Rod: 200.20 x 2.6 = 520.52/30s/16 targets
T-strike: 60.06 x 2.6 = 156.15/6s/10 targets
Chain: 58.39 x 2.6 = 151.82/4.66s/5 targets
Jacob's: 103.2 x 2.6 = 268.32/2.66s/5 targets
Fireball: 99.83 x 2.6 = 259.59/10.66s/16 targets
Shield Charge: 188.86 x 2.6 = 491.04/30s/16 targets
And don't forget, brutes don't have the same damage as scrappers. Even yes nice you get fury, when farming will have time in between mobs to dissapate, but fury works as a damage buff, not as higher base damage, and the big one is that brute melee isn't as strong as scrappers. For a strict example, Brute lightning rod is only 133.47 damage, whereas scrapper melee is 200.20 damage. Compared to every attack that's a huge difference. And editing CI/t-strike with these configured off of tomax's brute values. -
Agreed. An IO'd Elec/shield will easily outperform a fire/shield any day IMO. Now if scrapper fire melee had combustion like it should have it would be the other way around. But since it doesnt, the elec/shield definitely wins out.
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Gravity has always had issues. My big things with the set are so. Lift needs to be normal 1 scale damage, not the .8 i think it is now.
As far as giving it control, the perfect power for it would be what i call "gravity well" though i think there might be a power using that name in the warshades power list. But basically it works like a reverse bonfire, where it sucks enemies into the center and knocks them down. Same recharge and duration as ice slick and earthquake.
Instead of dimension shift, in place rather, call it Dimensional Vortex. A power like that at level 12, would help the set out a lot. As mentioned by the OP, wormhole due to the way it works is still not the end all control the set needs by far, the set needs a power like i just suggested. -
Quote:Its not rightfully due a "buff" its rightfully due its correct base values. Not presumptuous its correct. Otherwise every value in shields might as well be the same value as the tanker version.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Rightfully due? That doesn't seem a bit melodramatic to you?
Maybe it was decided that scrapper Shields is good enough as is and the armor set doesn't need even more damage? AAO is adjusted upward for scrappers, perhaps they kept Shield Charge with the lower damage on purpose?
Perhaps it is simply an oversight, but its awfully presumptuous to say scrapper Shield Defense is rightfully due a buff.
Maybe scrapper Blazing Aura in Fiery Aura should have been based off the blaster version instead of the tanker version? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Riverdusk
And my ice blast and AR defenders hope they don't. As a defender it is nice to have some powers that actually do a decent amount of damage thanks to the pseudo pets (ice storm, blizzard, ignite).
So yea, your hope is my defender character's dread.
Your nice bug, which you're lucky to have now, versus our bugged/improper damage, that is rightfully due? Be happy while you have it, but you can't be trying to say you're side is right in the matter. If you want more damage for your defenders, start a thread in the defender forum.
This fix for shield charge on scrappers is a correct fix, that they just need to change for us scrappers. -
Quote:OOps, sorry i hit the wrong key XD i edited the correct value in. And yes, as seen they can differentiate on a power that works like that between the tank and scrapper ATs, so no reason they can't fix shield charge for scraps.Originally Posted by Sarrate
Err... somehow, I doubt it.
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Quote:Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Burn is the same pet no matter which AT uses it. Blasters and tankers had Burn since launch. Maybe Burn has been doing too much damage on tankers for a long time? You could be right though, maybe the tanker value is the base, in which case blasters and scrappers could get a buffed Burn.
In which case the Brute version base should still be lowered, because Brutes have lower base damage than tankers. But Fulcrum Shifted Burn on a tanker, scrapper, brute, or blaster is already pretty obscene, so I doubt we will see such a change.
Cause we melee types can so easily fulcrum shift ourselves...
Yes, i alllocated the increase from the tanker to the scrapper just like LR was.
For exact in game values:
LR:
Tanks: 141.47
Scraps: 200.20
SC:
Tanks: 133.46
Scraps: 133.46
Proper scrapper damage for SC: 188.86 -
Quote:Easy, the difference it should be when ported to the scrapper version from the tank version.
Where are you getting 187 damage for the scrapper version from? I'm just curious.
Look at LR, 200ish scrapper version, 140ish tanker version. 200/140 = 1.429
1.429 x 133ish = 190ish damage that shield charge SHOULD be doing.
And having a power that goes into the balancing of a power set not having the correct value per AT is a HUGE deal. If you want to go about it like that, why not just let the scrapper version of the defense toggles have the tanker values until they fix shield charge's damgage on scrappers. I mean, if it makes no difference right... -
Quote:Which is why i'm not pressing that they get their TRUE damage according to their DPS, but shield charge should DEFINITELY be doing the appropriate damage for the scrapper AT.
I think it is hard to compare the tele-nukes to traditional aoes as we don't know how much value they attribute to the "tele" part and they provide so much burst damage that we may be getting into a range where normal rules cease to exist.
As they already have the scrapper version doing more damage than the tanker version, there is NO reason why shield charge shouldn't be AT proper as well. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Frosticus
Exactly, they may well eventually decide that the scrapper version of shield charge and burn is where it should be and do a downward shift for everyone else that has those powers.
I mean it is reasonable to think that L-rod should do more damage than shield charge considering L-rod is in an attack set compared to a defensive set. Sheild charge does cast faster and have a less finicky aoe (or so I've heard, haven't reached L-rod yet on my scrapper, but I hear it dissipates the further from the epicenter it is).
It would be doing less, scrapper version for LR rechecked is 200, Shield charge "should" be at 187ish, so it would still be doing less than LR, and LR can crit. No way shield charge is doing what it should on a scrapper, or need less damage on other ATs. It is actually too low of damage for its recharge to be honest (at the corrected damage, DPS of only 2ish, every other aoe attack being around 4-5ish), but THAT issue i don't think the devs would like to press at all, but they DEFINITELY should fix its damage for the scrapper AT regardless. -
Quote:It does. Like i said going off the numbers that it shows when you go to the powers info when you create a new character, LR for tanks is about 140 base damage at level 50, and it is about 176 base damage for scrappers.Originally Posted by Musey
Correct me if im wrong but doesn scrapper lightning rod do way more damage?
So there IS a way to separate the two, as also mentioned by sarrate providing the differences between brute shield charge.
Which hence to my original post, the devs seemed to have made a mistake when calculating the scrapper version.
Something i would REALLY like to see them fix asap. -
If i could hopefully at least see a dev "we'll work on fixing this asap" then i can be happy i have the scrapper a little more, as i WAS originally going to do a tanker but the ST damage was just so low
.
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Quote:This Irks me incredibly...Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
As Umbral has said both are doing the right damage because they are both the same pseudo-pets. That is why I made my Elec/SD not a Scrapper but a Tank. I will be doing the same damage with Lightning Rod and Shield Charge as Scrapper do but will have better defense number...and I really don't care about the ST damage with Elec/SD because Elec sucks at ST damage.
incredibly....
Much...
I went back on test and can easily say though that one the tanker the ST damage was easily noticely less. Yes elec DOES suck for ST damage, so i can't imagine not getting as much of it as you can.
Very annoyed by this as my scrap just hit 35 :/, and it was basically the reason for choosing the scrap :/.
As long as his IOd build is strong enough to last what he needs i suppose its still better off overall as the scrapper, but this really annoys me.
Hopefully they will get this fixed. Or at least create it as a tp, with a pbaoe attack as soon as the tp finishes, and not as a pseudo-pet.
As a pseudopet it does inheret the damage buffs though correct? Not that its much but at least the scrapper build up is 100% damage to them where the tanker is 80%.
Not thinking the extra damage from AAO would last long enough to carry over, unless the damage portion of the power ran a check for buffs at the inital cast of the power, not when the animation "lands".
Either way praying they do something to fix this asap :/.
And yes, the tanker version of Lightning rod is only 140 damage base, where the scrapper version is like 176 base. So tell me WHY lightnign rod can have a higher base damage on a scrapper, but not shield charge??? -
Death Shroud:
Tanker: 8.9 Negative damage
Scrapper: 12.51 Negative damage
Increase: 40.56%
Blazing Aura:
Tanker: 9.79
Scrapper: 13.76
Increase: 40.55%
Shield Charge:
Tanker: 133.46 smashing damage
Scrapper: 133.46 smashing damage
Increase: 0%
Proper damage: 187.58 -
I'm currently working on my elec/shield too. I can easily say one thing, while softcapped defenses are nice, seriously ask yourself, if youre going to use it to farm are they really needed. Short answer should really be no, especially with you picking the enemy types you're going to be farming, and how fast they will be dying.
Here's the build i'm going/am using. No purples, 39%ish defense, with good HP bonuses, rech/end and it regenerates a tic of hp every 3.5 seconds
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Elec Shield PP: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(15), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), T'Death-Dam%(40)
Level 1: Deflection -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(5), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7), S'dpty-Def(17), ResDam-I(25), ResDam-I(48)
Level 2: Havoc Punch -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Dam%(43)
Level 4: Jacobs Ladder -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(13), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(29), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 6: True Grit -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(7), Numna-Heal/Rchg(13), ResDam-I(19), ResDam-I(25), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(31)
Level 8: Thunder Strike -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(9), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(19), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 10: Battle Agility -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(21), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(21), Heal-I(37), RgnTis-Regen+(50)
Level 22: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(37)
Level 24: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Chain Induction -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(27), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Dam%(40)
Level 28: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 38: One with the Shield -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(40)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(43), GSFC-Build%(43)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(45), Efficacy-EndMod(45), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(45), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(46), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(46)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- EndRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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Set Bonus Totals:- 17% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 17% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 17% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 17% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 17% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 17% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 17% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 17% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 8% Defense(Smashing)
- 8% Defense(Lethal)
- 7.38% Defense(Fire)
- 7.38% Defense(Cold)
- 8% Defense(Energy)
- 8% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 13% Defense(Melee)
- 13% Defense(Ranged)
- 11.8% Defense(AoE)
- 40% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 39% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 175.7 HP (13.1%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Held) 9.35%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 9.35%
- MezResist(Stun) 4.4%
- 5.5% (0.09 End/sec) Recovery
- 106% (5.93 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 6.25% Resistance(Negative)
- 5% RunSpeed
Set Bonuses:
Touch of Death
(Charged Brawl)- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 20.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
- MezResist(Held) 2.75%
- 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.88% Defense(Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Smashing)
(Deflection)- 4% (0.22 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 10 HP (0.75%) HitPoints
- 3% Enhancement(Accuracy)
(Havoc Punch)- MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%
- 20.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- MezResist(Held) 3.3%
- 3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.88% Defense(Energy), 1.88% Defense(Negative)
(Jacobs Ladder)- 10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 3.13% Resistance(Negative)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
(True Grit)- 12% (0.67 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
(True Grit)- 3% Defense(All)
(Thunder Strike)- 10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 3.13% Resistance(Negative)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
(Battle Agility)- 4% (0.22 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Battle Agility)- 10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Combat Jumping)- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Health)- 12% (0.67 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
(Stamina)- 15.1 HP (1.12%) HitPoints
- 1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
- 10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Chain Induction)- MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%
- 20.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- MezResist(Held) 3.3%
- 3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.88% Defense(Energy), 1.88% Defense(Negative)
(Phalanx Fighting)- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Lightning Rod)- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Shield Charge)- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.88% Defense(Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Smashing)
(One with the Shield)- 12% (0.67 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Focused Accuracy)- 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
- 25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
- 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
- 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
- 2.5% Defense(Melee), 1.25% Defense(Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Smashing), 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative), 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)
(Physical Perfection)- 12% (0.67 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Physical Perfection)- 15.1 HP (1.12%) HitPoints
- 1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
- 10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Maneuvers)- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
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Quote:considering both FA, and CP can really get by with a base slot as an extra power i don't think that PP needs to be tier 1. I CERTAINLY wouldn't complain however, but i don't think its necessarily warranted.Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
If you run out of end between CP uptimes, then PP will help. Maybe not enough, but it will help.
However, that's my biggest gripe about the power order for Body Mastery.
PP's placement as a tier2 power needs to be changed. It should be tier1.
But I'm not holding my breath.
If your toon is good on end with PP, then pick FA, if its bad on end, then pick CP for those rare times. For a base slot (or in cases like my shield full slot for gaussians) FA with a 50 common end reducer isn't too shabby to have either. -
Quote:Ew.Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
I'd put in 2 - 4 Efficacy Adaptor, 3 - 4 Performance Shifter if I was going for bonuses or just slot 2 generic end mod IOs.
Regen isn't usually what's at a premium (you can always slot up health if you want that), recovery IMO is harder to come by.
Way overkill on the endurance on PP. First off i'd ask what your power sets are. If you don't need the regen i'd just keep it at 4 slots of performance shifter.
If you are a squishy without a fast self heal that isn't interruptible, or a scrap/tank with low heal capability like shield, invuln, SR, Ice etc, then EASILY go 2 numina, and 4 efficacy adapters.
Most of my IOd toons don't have end problems, so the end from PP is really mostly bonus, and the power becomes more used for its regeneration, and max hp bonuses.
If it's something like willpower, where the regen or recovery really isn't that needed, then slot with 3 numinas and 3 performance shifters for the 1.88% max hp from each set. -
If you check it, youll get the base defense that you can't enhance. Then after that you are supposed to get a defense bonus of 2.25% base for up to three teammates. If you check though, it is stopping the bonus at two teammates, not three.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
All of these things were brought up in the closed beta for shields. Just prior to going to Open Beta the base resists in Deflection and True Grit were tripled and the debuff resistances were added to Grant Cover.
The reasons that the resistances were added was because Castle had made a math error at the beginning on total mitigation.
The reason that the debuff resistances were added to Grant Cover was because the set needed them and because Castle wanted people to take and run Grant Cover. Paraphrasing Castle, "No power should be easily skippable."
In closed beta Grant Cover was almost universally skipped by the majority of the testers because it gave no personal benefit and team benefit was dubious due to short radius. Castle's (or at least the development team's) vision for shields was 3/4 melee and 1/4 buff. No one was taking the buff powers. The needed resistances were added here, instead of a more thematic place, specfically to force players to take the power. Many of us in closed saw it as a punative move.
It's another case of the dev's vision having a collision with player vision and intention. We weren't playing it as they intended so, rather than make it fit in with what we wanted to do playing it, they bent it to force us to play it as they envisioned it.
Kind of like Dominators. In 3 years or so, after they've gathered a bunch of data they'll look at it and say, "hmmmm no one is playing this the way we designed it." Maybe at that time they'll make the appropriate changes to the set so that it can work smoothly the way we want it instead of the rigid and non-thematic way it was designed.
Yeah sounds like something the devs would do. But i say its POPPYCOCK!!! :P I'm more of a fan of the powers when a set is good, and it has an extra power that helps, and can be fun, but ISN'T necessary.
Just look at elec melee, almost universally everyone skips lightning clap. I for one think its a fun power when used properly and try to pick it up when i can. Its certainly not necessary for the set, but sure can be fun. I think that's how most sets should be designed. To NOT need every power in a set, but having a few powers that help and are fun if you can fit them in. -
While i was bored at work, i began to think about the differences between the elec/shield and fire/sr scrappers i've been playing. I began to wonder just what exactly was the difference each was going to have in survivability between the two sets, both current, SOd with all powers, and then IOd.
There are of course many other factors such as regeneration (which for this debate they pretty much have the same), mitigation through knockdowns, heals etc.
But as far as the two sets go, they can be compared pretty proactively between their defense, resistance, and +HP values to see their what i like to call "survivability value" to see how they will take on incoming damage on average for most mobs.
Of course there are other factors such as, things like the psy hole, where the shield is better, for only the reason that the ones that break positional defense, it has that small +hp buff that helps it against such attacks, but going for the average values for survival, we can calculate pretty much the same pre-battle survival across any toon. (as far as for things like the psy hole, we'd have to give a value to just how much damage that accounts for per mob type, and give that % of that type take out of the overall value)
But to not get too involved with the erroneous values and types/situations, to calculate pre-battle survival, we have to look at the three things mentioned, defense, resistance, and +HP(which works just like resistance but needs to be calculated separately and a little bit differently)
For starters we can go into how +HP bonuses affect survival. +hp bonuses, after calculating work exactly like +resistance values does. Because by granting more HP, it takes the enemy effectively that much damage to kill you off. However, because you are adding the HP to the total you already have, instead of directly subtracting the hits you take from 100%.
The easiest way to look at this first, is think of where you are with 100% HP bonuses.
Adding on an extra 100% on top of the 100% you have, will grant you 200% max HP.
This means that when an attack could kill you lets say in exactly 2 hits total from your base hp, it is now going to take exactly 4 hits total to kill you. This effectively "halves" the damage from the attacks. The equation to calculate this is:
HP bonus/ (100% + HP bonus). Meaning its on a denomial scale.
So for what you'll see a lot in this, take the 20% HP bonuses from accolades. Instead of thinking its a direct 20% resistance, it is actually 20/120 = 16.666% resistance to incoming attacks from base HP when looking at the total percentage of your health.
Survival:
To start the process for the Survivability Value, you have to first look at defense. The defense will be the base value, to tell you exactly what chance an attack has to hit you in the first place. This is relatively the easy part of the process.
Simply take the defense you have, add 50% (which is the base chance mobs have against them to hit you), and then subtract from 100% chance to hit.
So lets say for example, when softcapped for defense, you have 45% defense + 50% mob gimp = 95% defense (always the 5% chance no matter what they can hit you)
100% - 95% = a 5% chance that an enemy can hit you.
Next, is where especially between the two builds where the math gets a little more intensive, but not TOO scary.
Resistance and + HP.
The next step, is to caclulate the resistance your character has. SO lets say, the shield scrapper, 11.25% resistance, times 1.56 (Ed cap-ish) = 17.55% resistance.
Now subract that from 100% damage = 8.45% damage the attack will now do.
So your survival value is now: 5% chance to hit, times .8245 max damage = 4.1225% on average the damage that any given attack will have to do to you.
Now you have to factor in the +HP buffs and/or accolades.
For simplicity sake, lets just use the unenhanced HP from true grit and the 20% from accolades. 30/130 = 23.077% "resistance"
1 - .23077 = .76923 damage taken.
Now multiply that by the other value with defense and resistance:
4.1225 x .76923 = 3.1712% Chance on average that any given attack will do to you compared to when you had no abilities at all with your AT
I mention AT, as we are basing this off of your personal HP amount per AT, as it relates to how many hits it will take to bring down that base HP.
Obviously as noticed earlier, this was at the soft cap for defense, which is why that value is so low.
Now for the special case: Super Reflexes; Part 1: Base
What was demonstrated earlier, can be used to calculate the shield's survivability with that formula. For any value of defense (averaged), resistance (averaged) and + HP
However, when comparing the shield, to the SR scrapper, the SR with the way its resistance works, is done so by a little more complication, of finding the average resistance you get out of the auto's. This furthers why this is an average survivability value as well, because as we all know (grr) the resistances don't kick in till you are below 60% health.
So first, we know how the defesne will work in the equation from the SR. So lets look at the resistances.
First off, as they work on a sliding scale, to find the average, we'd have to find the total resistance amount for the full HP bar (or in this case, i use till 2% health, cause even from a minnion, when at 2% health, its pretty much going to kill you with any attack, which is why the resistance not on a slower increasing scale starting at 100% bugs me so much, because the stongest value of the resistances, comes in when it can't be used anyways).
So finding the total value of the resistances across the 97% health is the most difficult part. Basically, each % under 60% hp, each toggles grants .3% resistance, or .9% with all 3.
This means that youll need a chart that increases by .9% resistance, for each % of HP till you reach the max (in this case, to 2% health, or 60-58)
Once you do that,then you are simply finding the area under the curve, to find the total resistance given by the scaling resistances.
Or in other words 1/2 base times height, the base being the 58 percentages of HP, and height being the highest point at the end, or the 58 times .9 =
(.9 x 58^2)/2 = 1513.8 resistance.
Now divide that across the total amount of HP being used, IE divide by the 98 percentages of HP:
1513.8/98 = 15.447% average resistance from the SR auto's. This value will be used exactly as other resistances as in the formula used above this section.
Part 2: HP bonuses and accolades:
Now here is the easy, yet tricky part that needs to be noticed as well. Unlike the formula above for +HP bonuses/accolades, there is an addiontal note to be placed, as the resistances from SR scale directly in relation to the total HP you have, so their resistance values are increased by being granted more HP to use between those percentages.
So in order to do that, we'll calculate the "resistance" value of the HP, we'll say in this case the 20% from accolades or 16.66% "resistance"
So we take that 15.447% resistance, and multiply it by the extra HP that will be granted allowing the scaling to increase:
15.447% times 116.66% HP or 1.1666 = 18.020% average resistance with accolades.
So once you calculate the average resistance from the autos, in relation to the total HP you'll have, then you insert that resistance value into the equation entered above!
So for any toon, assuming the same or averaged defense values/resistances you can use this to calculate its pre-battle Survivability!
(Average chance to hit) (% damage amount from resistances) (% damage amount from HP bonsues/accolades) = "survivability value" or the effectiveness that an incoming attack has to kill you from your base Characters survivability.
So for the easy comparison: SOLO SO'd SR versus SO'd Shields scrapper, both with full accolades (ignoring the erroneous psy):
Shield:
Defense: (toggles) 11.25 * 1.56 = 17.55 + (Phalanx fighting) 3.75 = 21.3% defense + 50 = 71.3% total defense. 100% chance to hit - 71.3% defense = 28.7% chance to be hit.
Resistance: 11.25 * 1.56 = 17.55% resistnace. (considering the 2% HP SR limitation, granting for the resistances in shield as well = 17.55 * 100%hp, divided by 98% useable HP = 17.908%) 1-.17908 = .82092
HP: 10% hp * 1.95 = 19.5% hp. 19.5% + 20%(accolades) = 39.5%HP
39.5/139.5 = .28315% "resistance": 1-.28315 = .71684% damage taken from base HP
Total: 28.7 x .82092 x .71684 = 16.889% average damage taken from an attack
Versus:
SR:
Defense: (13.88(toggles) + 5.63(autos)) x 1.56 = 30.436 + 50 = 80.436. 100-80.436 = 19.5644% chance to be hit
HP: (20/120) = 16.667% "resistance" 100% - 16.667% = .8333 damage taken from base.
Resistance: (.9 x 58^2)/2 = 1513.8/98(total used HP) = 15.447% resistance x 1.1666 = 18.020% average resistance. 100% - 18.020 = 81.98% damage taken.
Total: 19.5644 x .8198 x .8333 = 13.365% average damage taken from an attack
This is of course base sets, not including IOs, or other pool powers, buffs, or in the case of shields even close quarters teammates. But gives you a general overview of how to compare a sets pre-battle survivability.
It should also be noted, That it does not account for the "jumps" in SRs resistances. The HUGE reason why i suggest they start with like 2% per auto at 100% and scale down appropriately from there. Think i figured about 1.25% per auto would give the same average resistance value across the full HP.
But as it is nearly impossible to calculate how much of the resistance is going to be "jumped" over its hard to actually quantify it without knowing the exact %damage the base attack will do before the resistances are applied and the consecutively thereafter. But its definitely a noticeable downfall to the way the scaling resistances work. If the attacks are very minute and constant this equation works however. And is the closest way to find the survivability of a SR so it works close enough for our purposes. So i could take a guess and say that, maybe 1/3 of the resistances are "jumped" over, but no real way to say. But if you figure that, then just multiply the resistance value for the SR autos above by 2/3 on average. So with the accolades that 18% resistance is really about 12% in this case. Or something closer to a 14.35% average damage taken.