Aett_Thorn

Okay, I'm going to try to consildate my thoughts into a nice, easy to read format. I apologize in advance, however, because I know that probably won't happen.

Am I happy that Ice tankers got nerfed? No. Am I happy that Devs are looking into Ice finally and trying to patch some holes? Yes. Am I happy with I5 even with these changes? No. and here's why:

Ice tankers are supposed to be the DEF tanker. As test stands right now, we have moderate defense, and now we'll have some damage resistance (in the form of CE's damage debuff in melee). We'll still be pretty far from what Invulnerability tankers...wait, scratch that, fire tankers...can handle in terms of tanking ability.

What a lot of us are asking you now is this: what is your vision of what Ice tankers are supposed to be? Are we supposed to be the DEF tanker? Are we supposed to just be the red-headed stepchild of the set? What is it that we are supposed to be? The changes you are making to bring Ice armor back up are welcomed, but they don't show me a unified power set. And while the powersets aren't supposed to be one-trick ponies, it would be nice not to just have a couple defense powers, one resist power that not many ice tankers take, a damage debuff, and end-drain/end-regain power (which is what I will be using EA for if it goes live), a low-damage aura that costs too much to use, and a tier-9 power that's bugged and takes us out of the fight.

Just let us know what the vision for Ice tankers are, and while we may not be happy with the changes, we can at least know what the end product you are going for is.

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Here's a little tidbit from the dev response tanker thread that might have some specific relevance to Ice tankers (presuming that the defense numbers themselves can get worked out):

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Second, Tankers have a higher Resistance cap than the other Archetypes (90%). I confess that currently they share the same defense cap – but that doesn't sound right, does it? So we're raising the defense cap for Tankers. Thus, Tankers will be able to benefit most from Resistance and Defense buffs.


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I can't be sure, because there is no defense cap, but I think he means lowering the to-hit floor for tanks, which would theoretically improve damage mitigation for ice tanks (over over ATs like SR scrappers, but necessarily over other tanks) if they could actually get to the floor in the first place.

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Except that with defense numbers as they are now, we won't be able to floor most minions even now, let alone if they raise the "cap". If they give us back most of our defense, then yes, it will be great. But it doesn't matter much now.

Alright, I tried to stay out of this for as long as possible, I really did. I kept saying to myself that the Devs would realise that they had broken Ice tankers, and they would fix it. Then I log on after work today, and realise that no, Ice wasn't broken on test, that it was working as intended. You've got to be kidding me. We're the weakest tankers out there. Hell, even blasters are coming into the tank forums and wondering why Ice tanks were hit like they were with the Nerf bat.

Then I see the responses from people who play the game. They say, sometimes rather sarcastically, that gee, if WI is providing such low defense, why even slot it? So what do you Devs do, but take away the ability to slot it. Look at Circeus's numbers and tell me where the balance is. Or heck, let's just take a little example here...

Unyielding: provides resistance and status protection
Rooted: provides increased heal rate and status protection
Wet Ice: provides status protection and measely defense (even if you multiply the .5% defense by ten to bring it to 5% defense, it's still barely noticable)

I mean come on Devs. We liked playing Ice tanks. For us they were fun. If they weren't, you wouldn't see any outcry from us, and we'd just move on. Will CoH still be fun, maybe, I'll have to wait and see. Will it be as fun, no. It took me since last August to get my Ice tank to 39. Now I don't know if I'm going to bother playing him. Which really disappoints me, because I really liked him. Now he'll just hang out in AP like a Christmas ornament with hibernate running.

Seriously, look at the numbers, look at what people are saying about this, and look at the outcry by people who don't even play Ice tanks. We're all left with our jaws on the floor wondering why you don't see how Ice tanks are broken. We realise you were gone for a while (and best wishes to your brother in Iraq) but these knee-jerk reactions are not helping you any.

Keep Ice as it is on live for a bit. Then sit down with the rest of the Devs and THINK about ways to adjust Ice Armor that might bring it down a bit (not like it was really needed) but not break it. Lowering an already weaker set by about 70% or more is not a good way to provide balance.

Not a bad way to get to an epic AT there. If you can survive getting to level 30 or 40 as an Ice tank, you deserve to open your own epic AT.

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-Starts Petition to move Invulns DEF to Ice-
-Starts Petition to have Invulns RES returned-

Carry on.

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/Signed

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Specifically:

"that have had doctrines refined or corupted and bit made up out of whole cloth."

It's the 'made up' part there, in regards to your comment, that's the problem.

The way Idioteraser wrote it, and I am doing my best not to put words in his
mouth that he didn't type in this thread, he implies, In My Humble Opinion, that
those who became Christians saw the Old Testament and thought "we know better,
and we'll incorporate it in our book, and make up a few things too."

The New Testament continues God's relationship with man, and is not an
expansion pack by a different team, for lack of a better term.


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That is YOUR opinion, and it certainly does not represent hate speech to question it. Hate speech would be to say "Christians are doody heads and must be killed."

For one, the mere historical *existence* of Jesus is rather sketchy...

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And to put my two cents in on this issue, since I find it very hard to stay out of religious dialogue these days, is this:

To go along with Penitent, The divinity of Jesus wasn't decided until about 486 years after his death, at the first Council of Nicea. At this point, there were two factions of Christians - those who thought that Jesus was the son of God, and the other that thought that Jesus was wholely human. It was voted on at the council which was true. So while it may not be "made up" it is not necessarily based on facts that modern Christians believe Jesus to be the true son of God.

And that being said, don't think that it is just us Pagans that have been saying nasty things towards others. I think it was Lady Sadako (spelling?) that said "Yes, anyone calling themself a witch is laying themself open for abuse"