William_Valence

Obviously, pros of the set include a lack of any real holes, with the ability to buff your team, and some offensive improvement.

My question is, are the cons good enough? One of the biggest disadvantages I tried to give, was a strong likelyhood that a player would run out of endurance, adding incentive to act in ways that bleed endurance, if they didn't pay close attention. Adding the attempt to make a set that will eat power and enhancement slots.

Does the fact that players, cant turn a power off to conserve endurance, need to choose between larger numbers of effects when slotting, are unable to manage the taunt auras, need to manage +recharge combined with endurance penalties, and need to take nearly every power to be at the targeted efficency help balance the swiss army nature of the set?

What might need to be changed, what's good, whats ugly?

Again, no.

You're reading too much into the wrong things and not enough into the right things.

... tells the sory of how she harnessed the power of magic and tought it to gods and mortals.

I can harness the power of electricity and teach others to do the same, doesn't mean I invented electricity.

I can harness the power of the internet and teach other to do the same, doesn't make me Al Gore.

See how that works? Harnessing the power and teaching it, isn't the same as inventing it. The Origin of powers arc simply details how she gained the ability to harness magic. She learned it from her followers. From there she went out as the Goddess of magic and taught others to harness magic as she was taught.

Still no contridiction.

No.

It only matters if the well, acting like the polka dancing chicken, had an effect on how you use the power.

So please tell me, how is the well is behaving that any effect on how I use it's power? If you cant, than it doesn't matter what the well does or how it acts because it's irrelevant. I get it's power, and I use it. That's it. All it can influence is access to it's power not the manifestation. You have a good argument for Statesman and Recluse, but they're weak, and my characters arn't, and my characters don't get taken over by an overgrown water fountain.


And ignoring the lore that doesn't agree with your position doesn't make your argument true. The story that the player runs through is as much a part of the lore, as Statesman drinking from the well. The story the player runs through, does not have them becoming magic, it has them unlocking access to a source of power. The well does not control how the power is used, it is up to the player to decide that, and it doesn't make the player the representation of a god, it gives them more power to use in a way they are capable of.

If you go through the incarnate process, it stands to reason that you would be an incarnate in the future. That is not hamhanded railroading. So the contact for starting the incarnate content saying your going to be an incarnate isn't railroading anything, sorry it just isn't. I guess, that's not actually true. If you never want to become an incarnate, your railroaded into that story about as much as having your character never fight the clockwork king yet you run Synapse.

And while the character fights at the future Ouroborus, motive isn't defined, The objective of getting to Ramiel is, but motive for why is not. Why you want the power is never defined. Why Ramiel, and the letter sender wants you to have the power is explored, but why your character wants the power is up to the player.

Faustian bargain? The potential for that would exist if you were allowed to take the fast path, but the only option is the slow path and the lore for that shows the only danger there is temptation of gaining the power faster. No faustian bargain here.

And yes, silos has finally been outed for sure as nemesis but that doesn't mean Ramiel is a nemesis plot.

Her worshipers invented magic, and she learned from them. As a god, and the first one (god) to use magic, she became the god of magic.

So this belief is incorrect

And this one

So the basic lore behind magic says, that magic is a learnable skill, a method of using power. Not inherantly some intervention by a god or deific representative. And that it was given from humans, to gods not the other way around.

No, but what if Rolland from the circle of thorns used the web? He would still cast spells, he would just be supercharged. The web is tech or science, so does he become tech or science despite still using magic?

Power never dissapears, it's just transfered. The power went from Meriluna, to the Levithan, to you. You dont change origin when your imbued with the power, my SoA still fired rifles, and flug grenades. The only difference was the ammount of power he could put behind it. What origin is Meriluna or the Levithan? Power is something that can be used, origin is how the power is used. And power can be transfered. It is little more than a commodity.

It may just be me, but I dont see this. In fact, it seems as if they're trying to make statesman and recluse seem weak, and give players an ability to surpass them.



Out of curiosity, which god does the muscular boost make you the incarnate of, because I thought none of the player incarnate were representatives of Gods. Oh, and trapdoor doesn't seem to represent a god, while being connected to the well's power.

Dont know why, but I always read WW's part as saying Tielekku was a human. Makes no sence but I did, my bad. Wait:

Second, magic is a skill, more specifically:

So how it is in the game, is simple. People access power, and use the power. The origin is how the power is used, and the source of power is irrelivent.

Simple. I get power from the well, doesn't matter if the well is magic (and this hasn't even been show, or even likely), and I use the power in my tech. Guess what, I'm still tech.

The well could behave like a polka dancing chicken. It doesn't mean a thing. It transfers power to those that unlock access. This doesn't make the person magic, if it is in fact using a magical method of transfering power (which it's never stated or even hinted at), and it doesn't make them the representative of a god.

And really how is it behaving, if it isn't behaving how it's written?

As to the story, motive isn't written. You could be trying to get the power for whatever reason you want. The story is simply that you have in the future gained the power, and are begining the journey to reaching that future. That your character may have chosen the fast path, or decided to remain on the slow path is completely up the the player, and why you want the power is up to you to define.

That is how you manifest the power. As you can see, it depends on your origin. The well itself is simply a source of power for people it allows acces. How they manifest the power is dependant on them.


Power doesn't have origin. Power is power. Where does the game lore say that there are 5 different sources of power, one for each origin? In fact, the Vincent Ross arc makes it seem like it is far more likely that there is just one type of power that is accessed by the 5 origins in different ways. The Well is most likely a new type of power for people to access. Again in a way that they are capable of. My Martial artist doesn't know magic, so he won't be flinging spells just because he's using the well's power. A power armor user isn't going to become some Magical beast.

They just have more power than they did before, and it isn't magical unless that's how they choose to manifest the power.

And being an incarnate Doesn't mean you're automatically the manifestation of a god.

Magic, in this game, was created by man. Power existed before it, and it is not the catch all people are making it. Just because you can't place something, or something is "supernatural", and god knows what that has to do with anything in a comic book mmo, doesn't make it natural.

Is a demon magic or natural? A demon might use magic, but if the demon uses power in no way other than what is natural for that specific type of demon then it is natural.

In reference to those who are the manifestations of Gods in current lore, they don't really have that much free will due to "fast path" issues. It would be a fair argument that the well can choose how their powers manifest.


And about the origin of power arcs, "Mutants as we know them". The lore specifically mentions at least two mutants who existed before 1938. Giovanna Scaldi and Brother Abelard Vernoux. Both mutants prior to 1938. The NPCs wouldn't know this, they shouldn't know this, but piecing together the whole story is preferable to freaking out on one part and saying it's better to ignore the whole bit.

P.S Wise Sam is wise

The question wasn't in question. The assumption that you make that, all characters who go through the incarnate system, become gods or the representation of gods is.

In fact, the whole pourpose of defeating Trapdoor is to get the artifact he has. An artifact that is connected to the powers of the Well of the Furies. On accquisition of the artifact it changes in a way that fits the player's origin. I.E. how the player will manifest the power they gain from the Well.

When Skillgap, for example, gains power from the well he is going to use the power to improve his natural ability. He isn't going to gain the power of Gurglebile the god of nasty. He will have a new source of power that he can put to use in the best way he can. In his case his Martial arts.

He won't be the manifestation of a God, he will gain godlike power that he can manifest in his own way.

Here's a curiosity. What God was Hero 1 the incarnate of?

You're right, it isn't that tricky. Being an incarnate doesn't mean being the manifistation of a god. It is having access to a new source of power that you can manifest in your own way.

As to the well being magic, it isn't. It is simply power. That power is manifested in a way that represents the player's origin. If your magic it is magic, if your tech it is also, and so on and so on.

It is power, pure and simple. How the power is used depends on your origin, because that is how you manifest your power. Your power which is, upon unlocking access, power from the well.

I dont get this at all, why did ET need a higher activation time? It doesn't make sense.

EM was the single target king. And nothing but. Why cant my EM kill that boss as fast as my spines kills those 5 other guys?

This is an AoE centric game. ST is at a disadvantage, and being scared of giving ST sets damage that makes them a decent choice vs AoE doesn't help.

The tech in the story arc is an upgrade that is supposed to prevent *spoilers about anytime after here*

Hero deaths from the incoming praetorian invation. Remember in the other thread where you were asking why people didn't know praetorians were invading? They do, they just dont publisise it, and are preparing in the shadows. They are aware of Tyrant's plan to shut down the Mediporter system so they can kill metahumans and this upgrade is ment to prevent that.

Remember all the villain missions where you go in, steal the item, and remove all the information from the computers so your the only one who has it? My guess is something like that. Likely not impossible to start from scratch and make a new one, but they seem to be more worried about getting it installed and functional before the invation.

He specifically says he's not sure why it's taking so long to replicate, but he's filed a complaint with FBSA. It's just a literary device to up suspence. You have no safety net, no margin for error. The real tech is on the line and so are the lives of thousands of supers.

Proof of concept. Prototype. They didn't make one device to start because that's all they needed. They made one device, because they had a theory of what might work, and wanted an actual device to test. And really who said they burned the copies themselves? It may well have been the people who stole the tech, that's responsible for that.

If the upgrade isn't installed in time, supers may well be wiped out in the invation. Thats kinda /exactly/ what the Malta group wants right?

They want other people to be on the hook for this, however, you were too good for the elite group and revealed their involvement. Had you not interviened, there'd be a lot of Rouge PPD with egg on their face when they learn they were responsible for, not only the deaths of near every super, but also doing nothing to see the tech in the hands of civilians. All with malta presence being unknown.

Your probably right about keeping malta out of the 20-30 range, but really the best way to keep people from knowing your involved is to be involved as little as possible too. And from the way it's written the story does a fairly good job of making it seem like your efforts are the only thing that revealed them.

It seems to me as if malta was using the fact that, to most of the population, they dont have a reputation. With the ability to say just about whatever they want to get this person to work for them. If the target has an aversion to supers, using the natural vitriol you posses for supers would be the best way to turn him, and if you dont expect yourself to be revieled then there isn't a fear of using your orginization in conversation. As it's natural, and more importantly, true. He wouldn't feel as if he were being lied to.


First of all, one government agent does not a well-known orginization make. It's the same thing I feel the need to say when you mention the origin of power arc. Just because one person in the game world says something, it does not mean it's the god-given law of the universe. NPC comments are only as accurate as so far as the NPC's knowledge allows. Second he says they could talk about their motives and twists all day long, but we have a deadline to meet. This implies, not that he could talk about Malta all day, but that it's a waste of time trying to figure them out, and that you need to just act.

Likely it has to do with the level of danger an individual finds themselvs in vs. available resources. Registered supers find themselves in much greater danger than others far more regularly, so the limited resources are directed at them. But of course that's just a theory. Also, the preatorian Medi-porter may well be an entirely different animal. There's no need for them to be the same thing. In the Apex/War Witch comics, wasn't it something attached to the dude's belt?

I remember Elusivity from the last time you paddled me with it. I also remember you used to call it Anti-accuracy. The intention, correct me if I'm wrong, being to make defensive sets better resist tohit buffs when considering the efficiency of each point of defense.

My question is, what would be the drawback of pulling player's defense completly from the tohit calculation. My thought being if you did this the only option would be to have a seperate defense roll prior to the tohit roll. If the defense roll is a success then skip the tohit roll as it already counts as a miss. This would make player defensive sets ignore tohit buffs when considering the efficiency of each point of defense. And depending on how you have the system check the rolls, you may even be able to make player defense useful vs. autohit effects. Defense debuffs would need to be modified, but that would be obvious.

Because I'm feeling lazy, and I'm sure in your considerations of the defense mechanic you've already thought of this, I have a question for you. What would be the consequences of removing defense from the tohit formula? Or more accurately, adding a new mechanic that provides a percentage chance to avoid an attack, prior to any tohit checks and allowing npcs to keep the old defense.

First of all, something needs to be addressed whether your still following this or not.

This is flat out wrong. So long as percentages remain consistant, then there is no issue.

If your correct, then I shouldn't be able to convert the non percentage numbers in the quoted case b to percentages, and get the same answer.

However, /pauleyshore I'm a ka-razy boy, so lets try anyway.

dps would be 300/2000, regeneration would be 30/2000, and damage recieved would be 15/2000; or .15, .015, and .0075 respectively. Time to kill would be 1 (representing 100%) / .0075, which equals? Well what do ya know, 133.3333333333333333333333333(and so on). Also, you can rearrange the problem to find the incoming damage value: .15=((1/133.33)+.015)/.15 or 300= (((1/133.33)*2000)+ 30)/ .15

So you can in fact use percentages. So where's the problem?

It seems to be, that you're looking for a different number than everyone else is. Your using an arbitrary dps value to find time to kill while most people i've seen use a given time to kill (immortality line is an infinite time to kill) to find an upper bound to the ammount of damage they can take, within the time frame. The problem with your method is the answer changes as you mesure it, your answer requires a static ammount of incoming damage to remain valid, which won't exist. Damage is probablistic, It will average out over time but won't always be the same, so you can't get a definite value for incoming damage. Each fight is different, and depending on luck the ammount of damage you take will go up or down. With the method your attacking, damage might exceed survivable levels for a given timeframe. Made up example: an enemy might deal 50 damage over 180s but it does 1000 points of damage over 30 of those seconds, but so long as the timeframe remains reasonable to the situation (which the previous would be an example of poorly defining time to kill) a performance expectation can be given that's far more reliable.

as to this:

And this is why people get annoyed with you. Because you don't read what people say and go off on worthless tangents.

you forgot this part of the line you quoted

The bolded part being the qualifier you ignored.

Your proof corrected:

DPS Faced: 300
Defence: 45%
Resistance: 0%
HP: 2000
Base Regen: 20

Damage Received: -5/second (300*0.05-20)

Time until Defeat: sideways 8


DPS Faced: 300
Defence: 40%
Resistance: 0%
HP: 2000
Base Regen: 30 (20+50%)

Damage Received: 0/second (300*0.10-30)

Time until Defeat: sideways 8

Proof proves nothing, except that arbitrary damage value is arbitrary

But wait a minute lets try this a different way, how about seeing how much damage they take each second over a given timeframe? Lets try 120s

(((1/120)*2000)+20)/.1 = 366.66 damage

(((1/120)*2000)+20)/.05 = 733.33 damage / 366.66 = 2

(((1/120)*2000)+30)/.1 = 466.66 damage / 366.66 = 1.27 (by the way, if you didn't guess, this would be an "or less" example)