Another_Fan

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Even the so-called "Crap of the hunter" proc is worth a million at level 20. Since you can pick the level range you pick from, your odds can be pretty good with the random roll.


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That is because currently the only way to get that at that level for exemplaring/pvp is to offer enough to make a lowbie part with it. When you can get what you want at the level you want it, it will become something of a different matter.

That being said the only reason to convert merits into market marketable items is to exchange them for things merits can't buy. Just chew on the effects that is going to have on trade. If you didn't like cliquishness and clades that are doing things now you haven't seen nothing yet.

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BUT in this new merit world will that LotG cost 50 mil (hero). If so many people
start making them with merits, there cost should fall, I wouldn't be surprized to
see LotG costs fall below 40 mil (villain side) and 30 mil (hero) so using that 50
mil price is only good for like 1 week, or two tops. Then you would have to re-
evaluate the "cost" as so much pricing will be moving in both C and D pools I'll
guess.

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I'd take the bet that the average price (over all the levels its available) of LOTG both sides goes up within a month of the merit introduction and that the price of purples on the markets goes up as well.

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I can see why you are worried given their past track record on resolving issues. We still got missions that are bugged to this day even when we have sent bug reports on some stuff since like issue 6. So I dont see them fixing anything until about issue 20 or so. Good example is how long it took them to fix the LRSF first mission with the retarded tech. There is no reason this issue should have been broken for so long. It wasnt until we [censored] about having to soft load the first mission of the sf that it got fixed because they nerfed the softloading of tf/sfs. It should never have come to that.

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Just how long was it between ED and invention system again ?

Oh just as a note I am still not clear on why ED was needed to lay the groundwork for that. The two seem at best loosely coupled

Just to toss in some others for you

Doc Delilah

Seting waypoints in (Boomtown I think ? Its late)

Lady J in the midnighter arc

Unkillable/(target blocked) NPCs trapped in walls ?

The Markets UI ?

Some way to search for teams looking for more ?

ROFL the poison gas trap proc spawning ? (Btw are those corruptors going to be able to repick traps for something else ?)

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What remains to be seen is if, once the market dries up and many Pool C recipes have 0 for sale, will they still be worth so little? I think they're betting that the increased scarcity in Pool C from people hoarding merits will drive up the prices of the lesser-used ones and make the random roll a more attractive option.

People do use Trap of the Hunter, Pacing of the Turtle, and Sting of the Manticore (which is actually a pretty nice snipe set). The problem right now is that with so many random drops entering the market, the supply is much higher than the demand for them.

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Well there will be people that will still be able to generate surplus merits at high rates. They will be able to control the market prices for these goods as they will exert an inordinate control of the availability to the market.

Now There is a demand for the crap recipes but it is much smaller than what is supplied by the random table. This does not change with merits. So you have to assume the people earning all these merits would decide to turn their hard won loot into crap to make the scenario happen. When instead they can set a number and wait for the going rate to reach it and then convert deterministically.

After you have had to run 20 positrons to rack up some merits just how easily are you going to let them go ?

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Thank you for sharing the information with us. I certainly appreciate the efforts to increase the amount and frequency of communication.

I'm hoping the story arc merits will outweigh any decreases in random recipes from TF/SF runs under the current system...I guess we'll just have to wait and see how player behavior (hoarding merits to buy one recipe vs spending on random rolls) affects the availability of midrange recipes like SciDerv A/D/E.

Due to my extreme alt-itis induced by the great powersets & character creator, I like the idea of fairly easy-to-earn set recipes (purples being the exception) so that we as players can experience the fun of IOs for all of our characters and never give up in frustration over the lack of items on the market, or bad luck with the RNG. Just wanted to share my viewpoint...

Again, thanks for your work on the Merit System, and thanks for listening.

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Just a note I rolled a new veat a couple of days ago. but because I had a good team this afternoon I managed to level past three of my arcs.

Count your fairly easy to earn recipes out entirely. Under the new system even fairly modest builds are going to take 30-40 positrons. Or is that fairly easy for you ?

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The law of unintended consequences is going to bite everyone in the [censored] this time around, as almost always happens with fabricated game economies. Players don't do what you intend them to do; they do what gives them the most advantage for their time.

I forsee most things getting noticeably more expensive and the casual (read, vast majority) of players being put in an even worse position financially than they already are. The really desirable rare recipes will become extremely difficult to acquire.

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Don't worry this time the right people are doing it.

{ / sarcasm }

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Then there's the use of exploits, how speed edens used to involve flying through holes in the walls. (I have to think that much of the dev's 10 minute average goes back to those.) Exploits are cheating, you'll get no kudos from me for abusing a flaw.


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If there are exploits being used they need to be fixed. You don't warp the entire game to enshrine them.

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Yes, the new merit system is a plus for me. I see the current incarnation as an overall nerf for players, but for me it will give me access to a number of recipes that are currently beyond me. It will take me a long time to accumulate enough merits to buy anything, but I'll get there some day.


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There is the sadness. There was no reason it couldn't have been a plus for everyone.

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Quote:
So, it's really a lose/lose situation, as far as the devs' perspective goes.

Bolded for emphasis. Do try and actually read what people say, instead of what you want to read.


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My point is and was they have decided to fix a non problem (People speeding through TFs for rewards)

There was never a reason to make it a lose lose. And the players have tools to respond to the choice.

Edit: let me elaborate

Problems:
1. The players didn't like getting crap drops from TFs
2. Some felt they were getting ripped by the market
3. The root problem of the prior 2. Players wanted to max out their characters in what felt like a reasonable amount of time .
4. Developer perceived problem of too many recipes available on markets
5. Developer perceived problem of certain content being done far too much.

Solutions
1. Don't like the random roll (Its optional)
2. Don't like the market we provide a complete bypass. (Problem is this will hurt everyone that used the market but so what we cater to minority groups of malcontents (art mirrors life)) (and also hurt them but its going to take them a while to realize that)
3. Reduce the total supply of recipes markedly.
4. Punish anyone that didnt have an enormous amount of time for the game.
5. Punish players for having a content pref. By making said content less preferable.
6. Discourage farming by making the rewards of the activity more valuable.


/e faceplant on keyboard.

After the joy I had with MPBT (With that game it got so bad the players built alternatives to the developers proposals and even got to staging runs to demonstrate just how in error they were) I was certain I would avoid any other game where the developers started showing these levels of disconnect. When the players have to start explaining the consequences to the devs and are pointedly pointedly not listened to , Or in this case receive a basket of well crafted non responses to the questions with the most wiggle room its a real problem.

For this game its like the first whifs of spoiled milk in the fridge. Its time to get new milk you don't need to clean out the fridge with bleach yet. (The combination of this and throwing the existing PVPers under the bus isn't really hopeful though).

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If you are in the population that never does tfs hates the markets and solos story arcs its a plus.



Is there some reason you think these three things go together?

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That is the only population this is a plus for.

In the context of the TFs which is what we were speaking about its a loss.

For the overall game its a loss

If you are in the population that never does tfs hates the markets and solos story arcs its a plus.

Interesting demographic that. I wonder if they datamined for it the same way they did the TF rewards.

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So, it's really a lose/lose situation, as far as the devs' perspective goes. They chose the one that wouldn't completely invalidate their merit system, and would at least somewhat encourage running something other than Eden.

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Its not lose lose. Its they decide to crack down on the casual players to punish the speeders the casuals grab another game from the hundreds out there.

So for them its lose lose for the customers its lose win

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The devs are apparently betting that most folks will just view merits as an "extra" - a way to get additional reward from non-TF sources and control what items they get from TF's if they want to. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that assesment, but right now it is all in the realm of conjecture.

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Uhhh no. There is no way anyone could view the merit as an extra. For it to be an extra you would still need the original which will be gone.

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I would have much preferred a system that gave the one random roll PLUS some Merits to bring the longer TFs up to a baseline amount of reward per time. That removes the whole minority supplier factor, and merely adds the ability to buy what you may not find randomly, plus the ability to buy if you rack up from other sources like arcs or Monsters. fixing the drop rate for Katies is not a problem that needed to be addressed.

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Lol didn't you catch the name of the new issue ?

I13: Punish the customer

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Goodluck everyone trying to slot out your toon's 2nd build done when you can't get merits and anything you find that gives merits faster than they like will get nerfed.

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Oh, I think I can come up with enough funding to fill up the second build with SOs eventually.

Who knows, I might even toss some common IOs in there...

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Well they haven't moved your cheese. But they have moved many other people's, hope they are prepared for them to exit the maze.

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Impervium Armor: Resistance - 220
Aegis: End/Rech - 200 (x2) = 400
Scirroco's Dervish: Acc/Dam/End - 200 (x2) = 400
Mako's Bite: Dam/Rech - 200 (x2) = 400
Luck of the Gambler: Def/+Rech 7.5% - 200 (x2) = 400
Numina's Convalescence: +Regen/+Recov - 250
Miracle: +Recovery - 240
Devastation: Dam/Rech - 220
Unbounded Leap: +Stealth - 240

For a grand total of 2770 Merits 2770/55 (Posi Run Hero Side) = 51 times WITH THE SAME GUY. Times 200 minutes (less than your data mine at current) = 10200 mins (170 hours or 7.1 days). The 3 hour break for claiming Merits would be absorbed into the next running of Posi, so 7.1 days of back to back Posi would get 1 character their Merits

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Translation: You were never supposed to have that stuff. We have taken steps to make certain its worthless in pvp and have drastically curtailed its future availability in PVE.

Investment tip: Buy Respec recipes the need to strip IOs out of toons has just gone way up.

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Oh i love that aspect too.

"once you guys get good at this stuff, we'll stick it to you again..."

Or not even that.

"Once the gold farmers start farming the crap out of TF's we'll screw the casual gamer AGAIN and lower the merits."

I give them a little credit for having the balls to be up frount about it, but it's a crappy polisicy IMO.

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Economics for Devs: 001

If you want people to stop production lower the value of the good.

The way to stop farming was to make the enhances easier to obtain. The way to get people to play more content is to make the content better.

It seems effort was directed in neither direction.

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With this system, you're guaranteed to get what you want at the end of those 7 hours.

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No. That is 7 theoretical hours Your merits per hour will vary

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For all the people who say "But what if you screw up and the Katie takes two hours?" I'm just gonna say that, back in issue 3, I did Manticore in SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS. Bad things happen all over.

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I look at the changes in I13 and then think my golf game needs more improvement if I am ever going to break par. I like golf the rules never seem to change. I sure as heck have never seen the clubs changed because Arnold Palmer or Jack Nicklaus did too well

Thanks for the responses

Communication is always a good thing .

I will echo the common concern. While no specifics of how the data mining was done were given, you repeatedly made reference to the average of all the runs.

Given the large number of character available to any given account the existing timer does little to prevent speed runs and about the same for the merit.

Anyone serious about farming will just use alts and speed farm the TFS for merits. Given that from all appearances the (avg time)/account was not averaged over the number of accounts running the tf what is to prevent the speeders from just wrecking the new system. As things have been done it is apparent that a few players are able to break the system.

Just from a personal point of view. The last time I ran an eden it took more than half an hour to just put the team together and about 45 minutes to do the run. 2 Merits is a real slap in the face for that kind of effort.

If I read the description correctly the day jobs essentially amount to double strength vet rewards. This new feature just adds another component to the I have been around longer feature of the game.

Oh well, I suppose it is inevitable that the lowest common denominator should be targeted. Thus we have another addition that requires 0 skill to obtain.