Another_Fan

This is funny as can be. You misread the post, reply in ignorance, then the rest is well you may have done that but "it doesn't matter" Because you know more anyway and if anyone disagrees with you they are ignorant egotistic and in general uninformed. 3500 was the number of the players on our team. I believe the development staff etc was somewhere around 20 it varied seeing as the game was in development for roughly 10 years and had undergone three changes in ownership in that period and at one point outsourced development to an Israeli company.


Good try at comprehension. Fair to middling try with the middle management bit, just a heads up anyone managing 3500 people at just about any software company would be upper level management, In EAs case that would be a ridiculous percentage of their total labor force.

It does underly my point that your argument was much like the man who claims to have 20 years experience but in reality just has the same years experience 20 times. The fact that you couldn't even conceptualize the scale of what some games tried for and just how radically different environments could be just highlights this.

You have said you work in the software industry ? That seems to be contradicted by your lack of knowledge.

The rest of your post just gets more comical.

Edit: Just so you understand, its Cochranisms, Demands for data that couldn't possibly produced and your saying that because you didn't notice it happening it didn't.

That would be the same way it isn't required to have all the chess pieces.

I mean the beginner player really didn't deserve the rooks did he ?

You aren't doing well enough at the market ? Lose the bishops.

Well after god knows how many pages of its the "SKILL WITH THE BUILD" you come back with letting people have the loot is wanting to make it a coinflip.

Oh so we are back to having accolades matter.


Or are you still going for: More Hit Points + Harder to Hit + Able to do greater damage <> ridiculous advantage ?

There may not be fair in MMO PvP but what you are arguing for isn't just unfair its ridiculous.

Even the PvPec disagrees with you on that. Do you remember the Killer Klowns event ? No Accolades allowed. They sure must have been worth something as the max level for the event was five and it would take one heck of an effort to get them by then.

But yeah that from you pretty much your entire position in this thread. You start with the ridiculous position that having more hit points more damage more accuracy doesn't matter and then just repeat.

Then you go on and ignore everyone that came into the thread and said yes they have had bad experiences with completely unsportsmanlike play by pvpers.

You are right about what I have done and my past experiences aren't the issue. Then again I didn't make them an issue. What is the issue is something that is painfully obvious for anyone reading this thread. PvPers aren't interested in anything approaching a fair or fun game for all parties involved.

Pre I13 you would have situations where badgers were so harrassed they were forced out of zones the same goes for nukes.

Well in the end the Carebears won and chased the PvPers off the game.

Team Care Bear Stare 1
Team Over Compensating 0

LOL, I can see why you think a grown man wailing on a little girl is an example of healthy competition if you believe this.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...5&postcount=89

Yes certainly an inspiring player. Enough to inspire serious thought about that eugenicists might have valid points.

You might try something called sportsmanship.

It has some interesting ideas. Ones like if a superior player is paired against an inferior player he takes a handicap. He does this so the game presents a challenge to him and has the potential to be fun for everyone.


What you don't get is most people grasp the idea that you can't start a chess game with extra pieces just because you can afford to buy them, you can't enter a J Class yacht in current Americas cup challenges just because you can afford them, the same way the J Class was introduced literally to stop people from buying victories.

If you want to lobby for a sport, of how fast can you make a billion I am sure there are lots of people that play the game that would find it fun, Somehow though I don't expect marvel or dc to put out a comic called the mutual fund manager any time soon.



Gee Mac when is the last time you played an arena team without voice chat ?



She was asking for it, look at where she was and what she was wearing.


It was that way and moreso on the old system. You needed the escape powers no one took in pve. You needed the plus perception. You needed the self heals that no one bothered with. Defense though wasn't as useful


Sure they do. The guy who is going into warburg and would like to get his nukes without a team of stalkers, banes or what have you griefing him till he has to leave the zone and come back later is really being unreasonable. The guy who goes into the arena and winds up with teams that aren't even close to balanced is being unreasonable for not finding it fun at all.

I'd suggest trying the experiment.

Try again.


You see that would be impressive all except for the fact that when you were leading a team of 8. I was leading a team of 3500 for electronic arts in their attempt to bring the MPBT universe to life as an online game. And had been involved online gaming in one way or another for nearly 10 years at that point.

BTW if you are seriously comparing your experience in Tribes and Tribes II to COH you have just demonstrated that you are talking out your rear. There is no comparison between those games and COH in any way shape or form.

But if you do want to make the comparison, it would have helped if you mentioned modded servers, People hosting servers in their dorm rooms so they could have zero ping and wouldnt even need to bother with voice chat.

There were enormous problems with that game in terms of serious competition. Even so we were looking at modding the torque engine so we could keep playing our game when EA lost its license. I believe the 3028 spinoff may still be making the attempt.

Good try though, I suppose your resume is impressive to you. I have no need to make the false comparisons you have and I have no need need to assert special knowledge (and in your case either flawed or incomplete in presentation)


There is no way to compare a PvP module of a MMO to a fps on a public server. The social dynamics are entirly different but if you want to see teams with leaders, log onto a server and look for the team that has an overwhelming record of dominance. The odds are that not only do they have a leader but they logged on as a group specifically for racking up on the server.

If you don't think that groups of people don't get together get on their voicechat and then target a server they either own or have mutual good pings to then log in as a group you are sadly misstaken.

If you put in strategic/ or tactical objectives it becomes even more so the case and it has been that way forever. I remember when Heavy gear came out with what was probably the first attempt at that and you would have people log in in waves to overwhelm a hemisphere usually the south for some reason.


As soon as someone chooses to make them that they are, well at least for the side that chooses to do so, for the other it becomes a slaughter.

Or did I miss this from you

If you attach a persistent state MMO or just a persistent state social environment where people can compete for the best players it that goes out the window. If you are going to toss in a situation where it becomes a free fire griefing zone you get what we had.

The zones we had contradict your statements. The prior statements by other people on this thread about the behavior they encountered in zones contradicts your statements. Basic human nature contradicts your statements.

Yes you are the measure of all things and people should agree because you say so.

Of course people who have had their alliances blown apart because their leadership wasnt up to the job or simply wasnt, people who play eve online who have had their corporations destroyed, people on FPS teams that have been wiped out repeatedly to the point they became sick because they were playing on someones modded map, people who played Military Political games and found out later that the three people they thought they were talking to was actually one person who was playing them like a violin would all disagree.

Man, if you think that was the only one its no surprise that pvp people posting here can say the things they do.

Let me see
1. Gear doesn't matter but expect to spend 3 billion
2. Accolades don't matter but what they give you is what everyone builds for.
3. Skill is what matters but letting people come in on an even material basis is offensive.
4. From uber, coordinating attacks on single targets is important but it just happens magically.
5. PvPers don't gank pveers in zones but if they are in the zone they better damn well learn to like it .
6. Your pve build is fine as long as it has phase, perception powers a self heal and is primarily single target focused.
7. The pveers are somehow bringing you all down perhaps because they don't enjoy fighting ridiculously lopsided battles.

The list goes on and so does the comedy.

If you were to show this thread to someone outside the game they would wonder if the PvPers had lost their marbles

Well this thread has done something for me. I have a grater respect for the developers decisions in I13 and the goals they were shooting for.

Actually my reply reflects the fact that anyone who can't look up six posts and see a lengthy post in disagreement with their position and then say "you are literaly the only person" isn't likely to respond to anything that disputes their position.

Whatever you say

Real PvPers play FPS games. They don't need to start the game with an Aimbot running and the BFG in their hands.

Your heat is that of a thousand slowly melting ice cubes.

So far you have been completely unable to make a case on the basis of any kind of fact, and have resorted to using yourself as an authority and making insults.




It refutes itself. Or are we going to go back to where winning is not considered a need ?


This isn't a pub environment. This is a persistent environment. What is more its a persistent environment that will differentiate the available material before people even start to play


Your lack of experience or willingness to be disingenuous is showing. The bigger more complex the goals the greater the need for an organized teams and the easier it becomes to utilize tactics nobody wants to see in this game. At every step up in either complexity or length the need for a good team that is well constructed goes up. This is true for pve when you run a master of TF and you need someone to make certain everyone knows what they are doing, to Hami Raids where the same is true. If you place that into a competitive environment it becomes magnified. Increase the strategic element and at some point multi account betrayal tactics become overwhelmingly powerful.

I am not going to go into argument by insult, or appeal to authority for this. I have no idea how anyone can say a mob will perform as well as a team. Teamwork is such a deciding factor in almost any sport, that more often than not it allows inferior individual players to win against teams of superior players.

As to the rest, The pub situation for FPS where someone posts a server to the public list and random people are just walking in is not the situation we would have here. Its a false comparison. In that situation you are drawing from a different demographic and everyone is at least starting the matches with the same levels of equipment.

Here you would be setting up a situation where you would not have incredible disparities in ingame equipment, but also the additional disparity of actual teams fighting mobs and out of game advantages piled on top of that such as voice communication for the team.

You make the claim to great online game experience, you should know perfectly well that the organized teams will camp a server and just nail the mobs of noobs that come in. This is exactly what happened with the zones here when there were enough people.

This.

The response on this forum to that kind of talk though is learn the market noob.

What I was describing were the barest minimums for actually having a team that works as a team. Now if performing well isn't something that the people playing care about, and they don't mind not only losing but humiliating defeats it doesn't matter.

Its bad enough in this game that there can be overwhelming differences in build. The other day I saw two teams in the arena going at it. On one side you had a psi/mm blaster, and a fire/dev vs a fire/regen and fire/em. At first glance glance you would think well not so bad a match but if you looked at their builds, you would have seen teem A were both munitions and had all the aoe powers they could get. If you looked at team b ? you would have seen that the blaster had the ice/cold epic had hoarfrost, hibernate, had the concealment pool and the fire regen was well a fire regen. You toss in the fact that team as far as i could see was playing as 2 people not a team well it was down in flames for them.

Seeing as a team in this game can have even greater advantages than just the in game material, yeah you would like some balancing. Especially in a situation where you are going to have a few people that know the score and the bulk just wandering in won't.



They are required once one side has one. Its an enormous advantage. I also don't see the distinction between a TL and someone who is gently reminding people that if things don't get done they are going to lose.

Its especially true if goals are included into game play that are more complex than king of the hill

In FPS games, if the team doesn't have what is needed anyone can fill the gap. Don't have a sniper ? the next guy gets the sniper character, dont have a medic next guy gets it. Your build is never not right and the equipment is always up to snuff.

Here, You will get teams where the players are already not up to snuff and quite possibly no one has whats needed to even begin to compensate. The TLs at the very least need to be able to negotiate a setup that is reasonable.

Its something that sounds good but in practice it gets hairy. To make it work you need an activity with a definite start and definite finish, then you need two people that can organize two teams relatively quickly so that it actually happens. The teams then need to be not completely lopsided. Fail at any of the above the whole thing goes down the tubes.

Yep to answer the original posters question that attituded is what PvP IOs have to overcome. And no its not enough incentive. And all the content in the world wouldnt be enough.

Yep to answer the original posters question that attituded is what PvP IOs have to overcome. And no its not enough incentive.

It can.

And just to make it obvious, will dom is a damaging sleep so its impossible to stack, giving you only scatter thoughts as a possible stacking control. (3 seconds to cast, it looks and feels like you are throwing a big pink dandelion)

Really for PVE go ice.

Fire and Ment work well with PSI but thats just because they are great and work well with just about anything. You would be much better off pairing either one with a better set.

Well whatever you say then.

Compared to soloing PvPers on message boards ?

Yeah the AVs are smarter and don't go shooting themselves in the head as often.

It needs to be fun first. It has to be able to appeal to a larger population than either the old PvP or the current PvP. If it is something that is felt that should be hard, and on a par with AV soloing, or GM soloing it will attract similar levels of participation.


It also wouldn't hurt to have a tutorial instead of the popular "You have walked into a pvp zone, get ready to be attacked"

Sun Tzu: The art of war

8. It is the rule in war, if our forces are ten
to the enemy's one, to surround him; if five to one,
to attack him; if twice as numerous, to divide our army
into two.

9. If equally matched, we can offer battle;
if slightly inferior in numbers, we can avoid the enemy;
if quite unequal in every way, we can flee from him.

30. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong
and to strike at what is weak.

(30. refers to numerical superiority and is from the section
weak points and strong. The entire section can be reduced to
Get there firstest, with the mostest and beat on them)


http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html

So much time, so little change.

If you get tier 1 or tier 2 common salvage for less than 30-40 thousand a piece you are getting an incredible steal. Merits and Tickets are tied for best rewards anyone under 47 can get. By my estimates tickets can consistently be converted into inf at 5k inf or better/ ticket. So for you to buy your salvage, someone either had to convert tickets and put the salvage up on the market, or was running content that didnt give tickets. Either way for salvage to come down the suppliers need to be forced or willing to take a hit so you can have cheap salvage.

The same holds true for mid level recipes.

You toss in that someone has to tie up a market slot to make this all happen why should they ?