XeroShadow

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Our devs can do better than that.

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Not even Blizzard, a company highly regarded for it's quality of games, can do the things you ask.

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Also, it really isn't fair to call I6 an issue, since it didn't actually really add anything.

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From just the CoH PoV Issue 6 added 3 new zones as well as a new villain group (Arachnos). I'm not 100% certain but didn't it also add the gladiator badges as well?

*Laugh* Yeah - we do have a good cop - bad cop vibe at times. But hey - she's much better at bad cop than I am - she was a GM.

It all makes sense....

Caffiene == Good

Bugs == Bad

Except that DP increases the HP regenned by IH and your normal healing powers. So while the relative HP stays constant you get more benefit from Dull Pain in the second scenario.

Even so applying it to one instance and not the other is unfair as Dull Pain is one of the few powers that will function under MoG conditions to any degree.

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Run against the same AV with:

Dull Pain, IH, two little lucks (50% defense)

Even assuming no other defense or resistance, you're now much better off than you would be under MoG.

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Can't you run DP in conjunction with MoG as well? IF so it should be factored out of the comparison.

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It's sad that Dev/Player communication has severely declined since I5, what with all the nerfs and Dev-flaming.

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You're saying the Devs nerfed responding?

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No I think the players nerfed that one

I did specify "with full Fury". You know, that little inherent that gives them up to +300% damage?

Maximum Fury is only a 200% buff. A brute at her damage cap is the most damaging creature in the game but it takes a great deal more effort to reach this goal than it does for a scrapper or blaster.

It does make it hard to share useful information though if no one is reading it.

Not reading it, or choosing to ignore it because they dislike it? Considering human nature and particularly the evidence provided by these forums I'd say the latter is the most likely culprit.

We have been trying to get Devs to implement something that would cause heroes to have a reason to target pets first before the MM.

To the best of my knowledge FF MMs are already the most capable of getting players to try this in the first place.

Something along those lines would have allowed pets to use their defenses AND resistances, and would have given MMs the increased life expectancy we've been asking for.

Could it also be that what you are asking for is simply too much? You may not feel that way but look at it from the game designer's point of view.

Just because players ignore our pets currently, and the bubbles don't help for squat, doesn't mean that is the way it SHOULD be!

Taking out the general so his troops will fall has been a valid tactic since...well since tacticcs were conceived.

Taking a PROactive rather than REactive approach is often the better way to go about things.

The best defense is a good offense, but if no one intends to attack you then all you've accomplished is starting a war that nobody wanted to fight in the first place.

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Well the only possible solution to this issue is to have the henchmen affected to have their dmg resistance be taken into account after the dmg split by BG is taken. To hit checks dont make sense since they are volunteering to take the dmg for their master.

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It really kinda depends on how you think of the force field working. You are correct that to-hit checks wouldn't make sense if you think of it as purely a dodge maneuver, but it could make sense if you think of it as a deflection of the attack upon impact with the target.

I desperately hope for AI upgrades with I7, however, none have been announced, so I don't expect any.

Positron mentioned during beta that they'd be actively trying to get the AI to be "smarter" but I don't think even if they did some minor changes that it would warrant inclusion in any of the press releases.

Open your own eyes! In PvP, AoE attacks are the extreme minority. It is the single target damage that kills us, and when we share that with our pets, our bubbles do NOTHING to help.

In the situation you describe your bubbles do nothing currently, so what exactly is the problem?

No, detoggling isn't being removed completely, but it is (paraphrasing) "being drastically reduced." This is a serious nerf for those of us who use forcebolt offensively....because its one of the very few offensive powers in the FF set

Seeing as how this entire bit is purely speculation I see no reason to actively argue about it. "Drastically reduced" can mean a great many things and until it hits test I'm going to resuggest not jumping to conclusoins based on an extremely vague phrase. Some powers could remain untouched while others see a removal entirely.

It's not a "Doooom!" question, I was just curious if they too OUR damage first, THEIR damage first, or "undetermined"

Undetermined until we can actually test when the damage division takes place.

Best guess: It will count your bodyguards just after the to-hit check and then apply damage but I'm not fully sure how an AE power applies itself. If it applies itself in a sequential order doing subsequent to-hits and damages then moving to the next target it could cause rather varied results.

Not trying to discredit your research in any way but there is always the possibility of further AI upgrades for the pets to be included in the upcoming update. My suggestion is to take a wait and see approach before coming to conclusions. What you find to be true now may not be true then.

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Meh. I don't see that being a "real" issue. ED still kicked in at the knee for the correct schedule. The most exploitive this got was it allowed you to get a little more than 3 SO's effect for 2 HOs. So - limited exploit that came into play only for level 45+ characters. Annoying in PvP, but hardly game breaking.

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Think of it more like the extra guy in a tug-of-war. While alone he might not look like much and was the last guy picked he could be the deciding factor between victory and defeat.

Builds that depend on 2hit buff and debuff WITH the defense change are going to have a new play style.

I'm still pondering how a change to To-Hit Debuff enhancements is going to have any effect on powers that don't even take those enhancements. To-Hit Debuff powers will likely see an overall change along with defense but it's more one in predictability and an overall increase of power not a loss.

Drawing conclusions over nothing?

You proclaimed the sky is falling because powers like Aim and Build Up are getting nerfed (no change to these powers at all) and that powers like Overload, MoG, and Elude will be impossible to punch through (players already had their PvP to-hit reduced to 50% back in I6). You've drawn conclusions based completely on nothing.

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NOW can we please get back on topic? From the numbers presented in this thread, to me it doesnt look like keeping the To-Hit DeBuff enhancements Schl A would be game breaking.



D I S C U S S

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Keep in mind there is also the issue of needing to keep to-hit debuffs and to hit buffs on the same schedule as they are essentially the same variable but with opposite signs. Hamidon Enhancements were generating a problem that needed to be dealt with in this regard and while not the major reasoning behind the change were likely nontrivial in the matter.

Global defense buff

Global Defense change is more appropriate.

Global tohit buff to most Mobs

Their To-Hit is being lowered while their Accuracy is being buffed.

Schedual A to Schedual B for enhancers

One enhancement was moved.

Overall slower leveling speed ...

I really don't see where the heck this one came from.

non defense sets are gettin ~3-5% more damage incoming.

From what? The overall accuracy/to-hit from a mob isn't changing only the way the values are calculated is being adjusted. If you had no defense or to-hit buff you will notice no change. If you had a small defense you will notice a greater effect versus higher ranking and higher level foes.

Server will have to provide larger calculations for combat increasing lag. (it will be harder to take out hammy I bet)

The equation itself didn't change just the variables so no more compute cycles will be used when the change goes through.

MoG, Elude, Overload, PFF, etc will be harder than ever to punch though by players.

What exactly does this have to do with changing of to-hit debuffs?

How about Aim?

How about Build Up?

To-Hit debuff enhancements are supposed to go in these powers?

I'd like to know how much my 3 slotted nova form with 2hit buffs will be reduced and my debuffing AOE attacks?

To-Hit Buffs were not changed, To-Hit debuffs will have a stronger impact on higher ranking/higher level foes but losing a bit of effect on minions.

What about underlings?

Underlings use the same basic accuracy and to-hit as a basic minion so no change to them.

Monsters? Giant monsters?

I believe these both use AV level accuracy/to-hit and as such you will have more effect on them than you did previously.

I feel the relaxing soling days are over ...

I think you are overreacting and drawing conclusions based on nothing.

No offense Uber...but you've got waaaay too much free time Go play the game for goodness sake!

As to the results being skewed, honestly I'm trying to find out if Rad and Dark compare favorably to FF. Right now, from a pure defense perspective, FF is king. It's hard to skew things in favor of the underdogs.

Don't forget the fact that both Rad and Dark have a heal (dark has two if you count fluffy which also adds significantly to the other aspects of the set) and Rad also has the AE hold power while Dark and FF both have single target holds or a reasonable facsimilie and I believe Dark has a fear (correct me if I'm wrong about it being the primary).

To try to put it into math terms. You have an equation that looks something like: Ax + By +Cz = D. If I keep D constant I can still have many variables to account for with A B C x y and z that will come to the same value. FF just happens to have most of D coming from just one combination of variables while Dark and Rad are a bit more spread out and as such a bit more subtle.

Rad could be buffing team damage with both Accelerate Metabolism and Enervating Field, as well as debuffing mob defense with RI

Isn't RI also a defense debuff and EF also a damage debuff?

These comparisons are all going to be horribly skewed in favor of FF because you are comparing only the amount of defense (or to hit debuff) that these sets have which is about the only thing FF can do.

I was once headsplittered by battle maiden for something like 75 damage, as a defender

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That's Rad Infection VS 40% defense (approximately what an FF defender can give to their teammates) against LTs.

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Is that the total damage mitigation of 3 combined Force Field powers or just a single FF power? If it's all 3 or more likely the combination of 2 FF powers I find the comparison inaccurate from the start.

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Here's a question. I know that Futurias and Ilr have touched on this, but it really hasn't come up specifically.

In the past I have seen suggestions that mobs resist debuffs as a function of their damage resistance. This would relate to the specific example of Nightstar being largely unaffected by Darkest Night, possibly as a function of having a high DR to negative energy.

Do we have any verification or quantification of this effect? It would be fairly easy to test in the arena using a Dark Amor Scrapper, and maybe a /Regen Scrapper as a non-resistant damage soak. (In fact, /DA would be decent for testing with Rad Infection, too).

In particular I ask because this would be a good reason to shrink the rank-dependant auto-resistance to toHit debuffs - AVs that already have damage-type-based resistance will have really severe overall resistance if this is the case.

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There are already two defender powers that we know for a fact functions differently based on damage resists. Siphon power and Fullcrum Shift both require a to-hit check and I believe are quantified as energy attacks for this purpose. It stands to reason that any other power that requires a to-hit check along with it's debuff component is similarly affected but most debuffs do not require a to hit check so they likely don't have any resistable effect because they had no need of one.

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And since there isn't going to be any adjustment to the to-hit and defence in PvP, that means it is going to just reduce To-Hit Debuff effectiveness in PvP, a nerf... RIGHT???

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Correct. A PvP nerf for PvE reasons. RELEASE THE HOUNDS!

Is this a nerf to Rad Infection?

In some ways yes in others no. Versus a minion the power gets reduced in effectiveness but versus a higher ranking foe it is increased. This won't be fully realized until I7 though so for thet time being it's unfortunately just a nerf

Does this change have any effect on PvP?

Yes, the power will be less effective in PvP as the maximum debuff value is being decreased.

Basically I need laymens terms to explain.

Hope I helped.