I am perma Light Form. It's possible.
I read ur posts and it was interesting 
ty.
I always use Mids' Hero/Villain Designer.
My Toons
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You're VIP; you're probably utilizing IOs and/or Incarnates.|
Originally Posted by Kimbasinger
I am perma Light Form. It's possible.
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It's impossible to perma Light Form on SOs-only without outside help. Even six slotting LF with +3 SOs doesn't get anywhere close (~50s downtime: 90s duration with ~140s recharge). You can't get perma-Hasten on an SOs-only PB either without outside help, so that doesn't work either.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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So I looked at your build, Aries...
It needs a lot of work. You've wasted many slots on enhancing defense debuff in your attacks, as well as knockback and even stun. I would highly recommend changing all of those, and educating yourself on enhancement base values, so you can know what is worth enhancing, all while keeping in mind the primary purpose of your attacks.
I took a rough stab at it:
This is closer to what it should be like, but it isn't optimum.
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And eventually they might even realize that these powers are probably -too- good for their own good. I've seen many lesser useful things than this be nerfed in the past. *shrugs*|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
It's not exploiting if they knowingly gave it the same recharge and strength that Eclipse has had, for years. Unless you're trying to say that they don't know about Eclipse? Because I can guarantee you a lot more people have been perma-ing that for a lot longer than Light Form.
Did I say it was? Because I don't recall that I did, so I'm not sure why you are arguing this point. Yes. And they made it better. |
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
And there you go. Unless you're taking alphas and tanking for the team in human form, of course you're not getting mezzed.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Again, I'm not quite sure why you're putting words in my mouth, but if you are that desperate to argue with someone, you might want to check what the other person is actually saying. Regardless of what you believe me to be saying, I don't actually disagree with anything you've said about Light Form so far. What I have said is that has aspects to it that make it more useful than the shields in many ways. Enough to make the shields redundant, but again, not on a SO build.
I don't know how to say this without offending you, and saying "No offense" usually implies the opposite, so I'll just have to say it with this warning label so you know I'm trying to couch my words. Your main point seems to be that you have a chip in your shoulder about Light Form, and you want everyone else to know that you are uber enough to never need it. That's great. Nobody NEEDS light form. Nobody needs hasten, for that matter. There are a lot of things people don't need, but are still useful. My main point, on the other hand, is that it is a useful power, and the OP should take another look at it to make sure he knows what it does before dismissing it. |
I'm simply poking fun at the uber min/maxers who love to "perma" things that don't actually need to be "perma". I understand the idea that it might be a challenge to build a build that can do these things, but just because they can be done doesn't mean it's absolutely necessary.
Too many people like the OP get discouraged when they think they MUST spend billions on builds because otherwise they'd be gimp. Bottomline (to make it perfectly clear to everyone here) it's actually much CHEAPER to make a PB build that relies on the Human shields as its PRIMARY defense than to try to go for perma-Light Form. Your main argument has been "Light Form makes Human shields redundant". That may be true, but NOT if its NOT perma, which probably would not be the case in the OP's SO build. You actually mentioned that this is not possible with a SO build yet you kept stressing the "wonderfulness" of Light Form like it was anything -other- than a crutch power that's only truly useful during AV fights.
You talk of people swinging out on tangents to confuse the OP - I'd argue you were trying to sell a vision of Light Form (a perma'd vision) that unfortuantely had no place in this discussion.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
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--{=====> Virtue ♀
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Whatever you say.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
And eventually they might even realize that these powers are probably -too- good for their own good. I've seen many lesser useful things than this be nerfed in the past. *shrugs*
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Originally Posted by Lothic
PBs were -designed- to be primarily team oriented. Cosmic Balance only works with teams. If I'm not using Dwarf Form then why on earth would I be the main team member taking Alphas and/or Tanking for the team? Was this question about PBs and Mezs really -that- much a mystery to you?
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Originally Posted by Lothic
And there's -my- point about this. I never said I NEVER use Light Form. I simply said I only use it when I NEED it.
I'm simply poking fun at the uber min/maxers who love to "perma" things that don't actually need to be "perma". I understand the idea that it might be a challenge to build a build that can do these things, but just because they can be done doesn't mean it's absolutely necessary. |
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Your main argument has been "Light Form makes Human shields redundant".
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Granted, on an SO only build it will be more of a panic button, since you can't perma it. But it is still a great power to have, and still useful on an SO build. Perhaps arguably more useful, actually, since the OP seems to be premium and wouldn't have access to the padded mitigation that bonus sets provide or incarnate powers.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
That may be true, but NOT if its NOT perma, which probably would not be the case in the OP's SO build.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
You actually mentioned that this is not possible with a SO build yet you kept stressing the "wonderfulness" of Light Form like it was anything -other- than a crutch power that's only truly useful during AV fights.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
You talk of people swinging out on tangents to confuse the OP - I'd argue you were trying to sell a vision of Light Form (a perma'd vision) that unfortuantely had no place in this discussion.
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Seriously Lothic, if you want to continue this pointless tangent we're having right now, please make a new thread on the kheld forums. Something titled "I hate Light Form and everyone who uses it." I'll be sure to drop by.
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I'm not going to bother to over-analyze your reasoning here. It's clear that I've rained on your perma-Light Form parade and for that I apologize. |
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
[...] please make a new thread on the kheld forums. Something titled "I hate Light Form and everyone who uses it." I'll be sure to drop by.
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You keep thinking I hate Light Form. Just because I see no overwhelmingly good reason to "perma" it doesn't mean I hate it. I simply realize that you only need it up maybe 5% of the time, regardless if you're talking about having it on a SO build or not.
Light Form is perfectly fine as an "AV fight" power and it's good that you're recommending it as such. I'm simply picking on your original point that "[you] find that Light Form makes the human shields redundant to the point where there is no need to take them" in a thread where perma-Light Form was never really an option to begin with. I'm glad you finally came around to realizing (and evolving your posts accordingly) that Light Form is not the "magic bullet" for all PB build situations.
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--{=====> Virtue ♀
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Is that what set you off? Me saying that it makes the shields redundant? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but it does, from a strictly numbers viewpoint. I'm not sure what else to call it when one power does more than 3 separate powers combined. Just because you don't like that doesn't make it any less true. And just because your, and I quote,
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I'm not going to bother to over-analyze your reasoning here. It's clear that I've rained on your perma-Light Form parade and for that I apologize.
You keep thinking I hate Light Form. Just because I see no overwhelmingly good reason to "perma" it doesn't mean I hate it. I simply realize that you only need it up maybe 5% of the time, regardless if you're talking about having it on a SO build or not. Light Form is perfectly fine as an "AV fight" power and it's good that you're recommending it as such. I'm simply picking on your original point that "[you] find that Light Form makes the human shields redundant to the point where there is no need to take them" in a thread where perma-Light Form was never really an option to begin with. I'm glad you finally came around to realizing (and evolving your posts accordingly) that Light Form is not the "magic bullet" for all PB build situations. |
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Originally Posted by Lothic
fully level shifted level 50 incarnate who's fully loaded with ATO/PVP IOs
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And, as I've said (and kept saying throughout your little tirade), none of that matters for all intents and purposes of this thread. Each post I've mentioned light form, I've said that it was nothing but a survivability boost and panic button. You were all too eager to ignore that and start ranting about me and the evils of perma Light Form, though, and probably chased away the OP with your ranting. Well good job there, hero. Never ONCE did I tell the OP he should try to make it perma, or forgo the use of his shields. That was you, pushing your little agenda. And if you don't believe me, try reading over what I said. Those words aren't going anywhere, and they aren't edited.
It's nice that you're finally starting to read what I write, but you'll forgive me if I laugh at your "graceful" way of conceding the point.
Edit to add:
You know what, I finally realized what caused this whole mess. You took my reply to you out of context at the bottom of the first page. At least, it's either that or you just like derailing threads. Or both.
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This really is hilarious btw. How long did it take you to think it up?
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I'm glad you finally came around to realizing (and evolving your posts accordingly) that Light Form is not the "magic bullet" for all PB build situations.
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So...if it didn't come across as obvious, most of my existing builds were created pre-i13. A time when I'm pretty sure I knew what was up Except for the intricacies of Khelds. That's why I left them for last on my list of things to learn. I came back around late i18~i19 ish (pre-Freedom) and I've felt like a noob since. :-/
You hit the nail on the head when you say that I misunderstood LF as being an actual form change like Squid/Crab. Understanding this also clarified that a true tri-form consists of Human/Squid/Crab, not Human/Crab/LF. IDK why I forgot about Squid during this whole discussion, but that definitely solves one quandry. So yeah, LF will definitely find its way into the build. To be clear, this first build being discussed is Human/Crab form only and PvE geared.
*shoves juicebox into everybody's hands and cookies in their mouths*
Now about the slotting, it sounds to me like I'm being told that, for the most part, (de)buffs are essentially useless in attack powers and should generally be replaced by: 1-Acc, 3-Dam, 1-Rech/Reduc? I do recall seeing many builds like that ages ago, but always figured those were geared more towards PvP builds than PvE as that was all the rage and RAIDs actually existed.
Perhaps I need to understand my tools better as well. While I'm really not into 'by the numbers' or 'optimized builds' it sounds like I need to find out how to decide the effectiveness of each power I'm slotting. So far I've been slotting as you can see and correct based on the level of ED being imposed. IE: If I see that I'm only gaining 5% between yellow/red on the ED text in Mids, then I slot something else. I quickly noticed that the defensive powers tend to hit that way before offensive powers do. IE: I've seen attack powers with numbers like 120%, but shields that hit red at like 45%.
I did a quick read through the referal thread and found a few points of interest.
Firstly, I'm pondering whether I should add some form of Cloak, but if the build is solid enough, then by the time I get Crab form (not to mention the human shields) then I may not find that I'd need the protection/advantage as I'm not taking the TP power either. Keep in mind that I rarely respec to adjust the build based on say focusing on one form so whatever becomes final will exist to serve as the complete strand of DNA for the life of the character. Unless of course something completely changes how powers work in such an extreme that forces a change. IE: things like ED and the end of 6-slot (dis)advantage.
Also, with all the various types of O's out there, bare in mind that we'll only ever be talking about plain vanilla IOs. If for no other reason than the fact that they are WAY easier to avoid mistaking say a buff for a debuff when purchasing things at a store. (don't tell me you've never had that DOH moment!) I'm quite certain that I'm able to continue to craft to my heart's content on my badger (that and she still needs one more crafting badge damn it!) and while my inf tree is relatively small, I'm not above convincing a few NPCs to spare some loose change.
I'll come back when my head is a bit clearer and I've had a chance to look at everything better.
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I love cookies |
Originally Posted by WanderingAries
*shoves juicebox into everybody's hands and cookies in their mouths*
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Originally Posted by WanderingAries
Now about the slotting, it sounds to me like I'm being told that, for the most part, (de)buffs are essentially useless in attack powers and should generally be replaced by: 1-Acc, 3-Dam, 1-Rech/Reduc? I do recall seeing many builds like that ages ago, but always figured those were geared more towards PvP builds than PvE as that was all the rage and RAIDs actually existed.
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Originally Posted by WanderingAries
Firstly, I'm pondering whether I should add some form of Cloak, but if the build is solid enough, then by the time I get Crab form (not to mention the human shields) then I may not find that I'd need the protection/advantage as I'm not taking the TP power either. Keep in mind that I rarely respec to adjust the build based on say focusing on one form so whatever becomes final will exist to serve as the complete strand of DNA for the life of the character. Unless of course something completely changes how powers work in such an extreme that forces a change. IE: things like ED and the end of 6-slot (dis)advantage.
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Originally Posted by WanderingAries
Also, with all the various types of O's out there, bare in mind that we'll only ever be talking about plain vanilla IOs. If for no other reason than the fact that they are WAY easier to avoid mistaking say a buff for a debuff when purchasing things at a store. (don't tell me you've never had that DOH moment!) I'm quite certain that I'm able to continue to craft to my heart's content on my badger (that and she still needs one more crafting badge damn it!) and while my inf tree is relatively small, I'm not above convincing a few NPCs to spare some loose change.
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I got set off by your remarks?|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
This really is hilarious btw. How long did it take you to think it up?
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I have an agenda?
I went on a tirade?
I'm trying to derail the thread?
I can "sort of?" read your responses?
I'm uspet you killed cat my cat or something?
I put words in your mouth?
Well, at least I wasn't the one to take this discussion a little too personally...
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
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Sounds like the truth hurts?|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I got set off by your remarks?
I have an agenda? I went on a tirade? I'm trying to derail the thread? I can "sort of?" read your responses? I'm uspet you killed cat my cat or something? I put words in your mouth? Well, at least I wasn't the one to take this discussion a little too personally... |
Except for the cat thing. That was just funny.
Unless I really did kill your cat.
Hmm, normally things don't go to hell unless I Leave a place. This is certainly a first, unless me taking >6yrs to finally work on my Kheld builds was the 7th sign?
Your main point seems to be that you have a chip in your shoulder about Light Form, and you want everyone else to know that you are uber enough to never need it. That's great. Nobody NEEDS light form. Nobody needs hasten, for that matter. There are a lot of things people don't need, but are still useful. My main point, on the other hand, is that it is a useful power, and the OP should take another look at it to make sure he knows what it does before dismissing it.