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Originally Posted by twistedlogic77
Why do defenders -regen powers have the same value as the other ATs? Controllers and corrs have the same number. Shouldn't defenders be better at debuffs? I'd think thatd make them stand out abit more.
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Not sure why they are the same. But 90% of the time I'll choose to make a Corr over a Defender cause the extra damage far outweighs the slight additional -Res and as you said the -regen numbers are the same. defenders do get more -def tho. But -def is a joke.
Well the simple answer is because back when CoH was first made the Devs at the time made the decision that Regeneration Buffs and Regeneration Debuffs would not change for ATs (which is why Health is always 40% Regeneration).
Of course this raises the question of WHY they made that decision which I doubt we'll ever know for sure but I can hazard a guess (although this is VERY much a guess). Regeneration buffs and debuffs are unusual in that their effectiveness scales according to the target. For example a 30% resistance debuff will increase your effective damage by 30% of the damage you would do without it whether the target has 0% natural resistance of 90%. Conversely Regeneration changes effectiveness based on the target a Tanker regenerates more HP/Sec than a Defender for the same Regeneration Buff and similarly a Regeneration Debuff will be more effective on a Boss than a Minion.
Now given this the devs could well have decided that they wanted Regeneration Buffs to not scale to avoid Tankers "double-dipping" with powers like Health (since they would get more Regeneration and have more HP for it to work on). Now if you look at the early game the devs seem to make buffs and debuffs work roughly the same so if Regeneration Buffs didn't scale then neither should Debuffs.
Of course this is all extreme guesswork. If you want a real head-scratcher I have a better one. There is no AT scalar for Hold strength. Instead Hold use either the Immobilize scalar, the Stun scalar or are unscaled with no real pattern that I can determine. WTF?
For reference, Defenders typically get:
~18% higher Self +Defense
~18% higher Self +Damage
~18% higher Self +ToHit
33.3% higher Self +Damage Resistance
33.3% higher Ally +Defense
25% higher Ally +Damage
25% higher Ally +ToHit
33.3% higher Ally +Damage Resistance
25% higher Ally +Mez Resistance
~14% higher Ally Heals
25% higher Foe -Damage
25% higher Foe -Defense
25% higher Foe -ToHit
33.3% higher Foe -Damage Resistance
25% higher Foe -Speed
25% higher Mez Durations
25% higher Knockback Distance
This isn't always the case though, as sometimes... someone forgets to use the correct modifier.
But overall, Defenders offer much more support to their allies and are much sturdier themselves because of higher debuff values and self buff values.
Sidenote not really related to the conversation: It always bugs me when the Defender AT description in articles or reviews includes "best healing" since the difference between their healing and other ATs' healing is much smaller than the difference between everything else listed above compared to the other ATs.
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The real question is: Why are their separate modifiers for all the different mezzes at all, since most are all the same?|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Of course this is all extreme guesswork. If you want a real head-scratcher I have a better one. There is no AT scalar for Hold strength. Instead Hold use either the Immobilize scalar, the Stun scalar or are unscaled with no real pattern that I can determine. WTF?
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The Immobilize table gets used for Holds, Immobs, and Confuses.
Sleep uses the Sleep table, but it's the same as the Immobilize table.
The Stun table is also the same, minus the Corruptor and Mastermind values, which is probably a bug unless the CoV Devs decided that they really wanted Masterminds to be better than Corruptors with Stuns and Power Boost/Weaken-type powers.
The only one I can understand is Fear since it looks like the Devs want Terrorize effects to be stronger for the Melee ATs than the other crowd control effects.
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Wow this is really cool info ty for sharing this! I am having so much trouble wanting to like defenders cause I always make corruptors but this is a nice cute representation why they can be really effective in a different way.
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Originally Posted by Trickshooter
For reference, Defenders typically get:
~18% higher Self +Defense ~18% higher Self +Damage ~18% higher Self +ToHit 33.3% higher Self +Damage Resistance 33.3% higher Ally +Defense 25% higher Ally +Damage 25% higher Ally +ToHit 33.3% higher Ally +Damage Resistance 25% higher Ally +Mez Resistance ~14% higher Ally Heals 25% higher Foe -Damage 25% higher Foe -Defense 25% higher Foe -ToHit 33.3% higher Foe -Damage Resistance 25% higher Foe -Speed 25% higher Mez Durations 25% higher Knockback Distance This isn't always the case though, as sometimes... someone forgets to use the correct modifier. But overall, Defenders offer much more support to their allies and are much sturdier themselves because of higher debuff values and self buff values. Sidenote not really related to the conversation: It always bugs me when the Defender AT description in articles or reviews includes "best healing" since the difference between their healing and other ATs' healing is much smaller than the difference between everything else listed above compared to the other ATs. |
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That's an interesting look in to the vision the original designers had for the game. Maybe they classified making enemies run away (that was fear's original effect) to be mob influencing of the same type as taunting, and thus the domain of melee classes?
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Originally Posted by Trickshooter
The only one I can understand is Fear since it looks like the Devs want Terrorize effects to be stronger for the Melee ATs than the other crowd control effects.
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Why do defenders -regen powers have the same value as the other ATs? Controllers and corrs have the same number. Shouldn't defenders be better at debuffs? I'd think thatd make them stand out abit more.