Yup, I just did the test again. This time I only keep two Howling Wolves. I look at the pet window and the second Howl overwrites the first one. They did not stack. The new one seems to overwrite the old.
Then I only keep one Howling Wolf and one Alpha Wolf. I see two Howl buffs.
I am going to assume this is a bug?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I believe it's intentional. The Howl's are flagged to not stack, regardless of caster. Because the two Howler Wolves version of Howl is the same version (i.e., the same internal name of Mastermind_Pets.Howler_Wolf_3.Howl), they won't stack. The Alpha Wolf version is technically not the same (having an internal name of Mastermind_Pets.Alpha_Wolf_3.Howl), so it's technically not the same power and can stack with the Howler version.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Yup, I just did the test again. This time I only keep two Howling Wolves. I look at the pet window and the second Howl overwrites the first one. They did not stack. The new one seems to overwrite the old.
Then I only keep one Howling Wolf and one Alpha Wolf. I see two Howl buffs. I am going to assume this is a bug? |
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I suspect it's "intentional" at first but if that's the case, then it's a pretty poor design. You can't control "when" the pets use those long-recharge buffs like Roar and Howl. The pets use them as soon as the upgrade is on. |
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
I believe it's intentional. The Howl's are flagged to not stack, regardless of caster. Because the two Howler Wolves version of Howl is the same version (i.e., the same internal name of Mastermind_Pets.Howler_Wolf_3.Howl), they won't stack. The Alpha Wolf version is technically not the same (having an internal name of Mastermind_Pets.Alpha_Wolf_3.Howl), so it's technically not the same power and can stack with the Howler version.
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What is the point of casting two overlapping buffs together? The pets spend like 2s to cast those buffs. Unless the dev can magically force the pets to only use it when the other buff wears off (it's impossible in this game I know), I don't understand the logic of this design.
I see two Lions casting Roar together all the time but only one serves a purpose. Why spending the extra activation time and endurance? (I've also noticed Lions are using a lot more endurance now)
I would much rather have each buff being a bit weaker but they can stack.
It's annoying because Protector Robot's force field can stack and Enforcer's Maneuver/Tactics/Assault can stack.
My ideal design of these "long-recharge" is to have a variety in each buff.
Alpha buffs +Damage and +Tohit
Howling 1 +Tohit
Howling 2 +Damage
Lion 1 Roar buffs Defense
Lion 2 Roar buffs Resistance or +Regen
This way, you don't waste activation time and endurance on overlapping buffs.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I also haven't tested to see if other Beast's Roar and Howl stack with mine. I know my Beast pets got Roar buff from my friend's but I don't know if both of our Roars stack.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I think it gives you better coverage when they use the buffs mid-combat. Howl's AoE size is only 15 feet, that's the same size as Venomous Gas or Suppress Pain; it won't always cover the entire area of a fight.
With each Howler Wolf having their own Howl, it effectively increases the size of the AoE, so if your pets are ever split up within a group of enemies, less of your pets will miss receiving the buff from Howl.
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That's a good point. |
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
I think it gives you better coverage when they use the buffs mid-combat. Howl's AoE size is only 15 feet, that's the same size as Venomous Gas or Suppress Pain; it won't always cover the entire area of a fight.
With each Howler Wolf having their own Howl, it effectively increases the size of the AoE, so if your pets are ever split up within a group of enemies, less of your pets will miss receiving the buff from Howl. |
Or they can increase size to 20' or 25' so the pets don't cast buffs that overlap each other.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Probably the reason they have it not stack is to avoid the same effect that happens from Thugs' Enforcers, where two or more Thugs MM's can massively supercharge their pets by staying in close proximity.
Just imagine what two or more BM MM's would be like for damage.
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I understand this risk as well but this game is all about stacking buffs/debuffs. It's no different than seeing a super team of 8 Corr/Defender/Controller stacking whatever buffs/debuffs they have. |
Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
Probably the reason they have it not stack is to avoid the same effect that happens from Thugs' Enforcers, where two or more Thugs MM's can massively supercharge their pets by staying in close proximity.
Just imagine what two or more BM MM's would be like for damage. |
This is the only game that I've played that puts almost no limit on stacking buffs/debuffs. I know there's cap but it seldom gets there and if it gets there, it's already so overpowering already.
My only problem is that I see Wolves/Lions casting at similar time and for the same effect. It is not an issue if one of them dies and I resummon and I start another cycle of Howling and Roar. I just find it annoying to see the pets wasting their casting time/endurance just to over-write the other.
My suggestion of having different variation of buffs has its problem too because if one of them keeps dying, then you are not going to get that kind of buff. Oh well..
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
My Beast/Time just hit 32. I was studying and reading about the upgrades.
I want to pay attention to Howl because I didn't know it's an AoE damage buff. I thought it's just for the wolf itself.
Anyway, I opened Pet Combat Log and tried to see if they stack (since Lion's Roars do not stack!). Apparently, from my limited testing, only one of Howler's Howl and Alpha's Howl stack = 25% + 25%. I was expecting to see 3 damage buffs stacking.
What I did is to dismiss all 3 Wolves and then only use 2nd upgrade so all 3 of them use Howl.
Has anyone noticed this or it's just a display bug? Display bug is still a bug. If some of you are seeing this, then I am going to Bug it.
On the side note, I am impressed with two upgrades. Beast's burst damage is really high and PM stacks seem to be even easier to get. The only upgrade I am not too sure about is Alpha Wolf. Why does it get Lick Wound? It would be nice if it gets a 3rd attack with knock down.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.