Looking for some Fire Armor/SS/Pyre Build Feedback
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2011-02-01 19:34 in Tankers
Your build's defense set bonuses lack focus. Half of them are S/L focused and the other half are Melee. It is best to stick with one since they both cover the same attacks, for the most part.
That might be ok for farming, but for group tanking you should try to be protected against as many damage types as possible. You can do this by going for melee+ranged+AoE defense, or by going for S/L/E/N defense. As a character that gets no defense bonus from your primary or secondary set, it is more realistic to aim for 32.5% defense and depend on a small purple inspiration to soft cap when you need to survive in harder fights. Achieving that much defense may require the use of 4 pool powers, leaving you with no room for Hasten. If you want to tank well, you have to be prepared to give up some DPS.
Quote:
First off focusing on which defense type is generally good advice. However s/l and melee are not an either/or proposition. Slotting kin combats for 3.5 s/l happens to give you 1.88 melee as a by product. On a tank that has plenty of pbaoes in which to slot Oblit such as a fire/ss it makes sense to slot for s/l in the ST attacks.|
Originally Posted by Syntax42
Your build's defense set bonuses lack focus. Half of them are S/L focused and the other half are Melee. It is best to stick with one since they both cover the same attacks, for the most part.
If you want to tank well, you have to be prepared to give up some DPS. |
Second you really only need 2 pools to hit softcap on a FA. I've done it twice using only Combat Jumping, and Weave in addition to IOs.
Finally I have to take exception to that last remark. While it may not be possible to be an unsupported main team tank and also do enough damage to solo AVs, there is no reason whatsoever to have to choose between personal damage output and survivability.
Just to give you something to compare to here is one of the builds for my fire/ss/pyre.
I sacrificed nothing in terms of damage and he main tanks just fine. It could be softcapped to 4 dmg types with the addition of a pvp IO and a few tweaks but this does the job just fine for me.
Code:
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Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
Thanks for the suggestion/points so far, i really appreciate the help Organizing the defense is exactly one of the things i was worried about and it definitely makes sense to rectify that in my final build, whenever i actually finish it.
@abnormal - I wanted to ask you some questions about your build, but please know that they're all based out of curiosity and have nothing to do with questioning your build's inherent quality, i asked for help but i also have to learn the ins and outs so i don't have to bother anyone as much next time! So looking at the build there isn't any travel power which i assume you make up for with jetpacks or something of that ilk. There's also a couple slots such as in Hurl and Taunt which give you some extra cold/fire defense which would seem to be extraneous. I know the cold resist is low, but does the extra 6.5% warrant the two slots? Also is endurancy/recovery a problem with this build? I'm sure i could slot a miracle and performance shifter proc to help out and going cardiac alpha slot would help out a ton, is that something that you'd do? Lastly, you've got 16 points in KB resistance, from my research it seems like 12 pts will protect you from 99.9% of PVE content, is there a reason that you slotted the extra one?
Please keep chiming in guys, i'd like to have as many suggestions/critiques/builds as i can get my grubby little hands on!
This is a weird thing to harp on, but I don't like Recharge in Rise of the Phoenix. It comes back plenty quick if you only need it occasionally, and if you need it more than once in a fight, one IO isn't going to help much. Personally, I slot RotP for Stun. This gives it a 21-second duration, so if the team wipes, I can RotP, everyone else uses a wakie, and anything without the PTOD is doing the drunk walk for long enough for the rest of the team to come to their senses. I've also considered an EndMod IO, so RotP + Healing Flames doesn't leave me needing to Consume to get back in fighting shape.
The other thing that's leaping out at me is the Gaussian set in Rage. If you focus on positional defense, it's quite good, though a little light on recharge for six slots. On the other hand, if you decide to chase S/L Defense, two Rectified Reticle (ToHit, ToHit/Rech) and two Adjusted Targeting (Rech, ToHit/Rech) gives more S/L defense, nearly as much damage bonus, and a little more recharge in 2 fewer slots. You do lose the speed buff, HP and recovery, bit it's worth considering. You might consider using those spare slots to put a little more accuracy in those low attacks with Kinetic Combats - unless Rage is covering for that; I've never tried to IO a SS character before.
@ Mack - Great suggestions! The recharge in RotP for me was a carry over for how often i'm biffing it atm with just an SO build, but slotting for stun duration does make a little more sense once i've got S/L/E/N closer to cap as I will die far less often Also the slotting of Rage is a great thing to consider; I did plan on perma-Raging, but having two extra slots could always come in handy and it actually, as you pointed out, gets me a much better recharge rate if i'm not going after positional defense caps!
You guys have been giving GREAT feedback, please keep the critiques and builds coming, each thing you guys point out is helping me a TON!
Quote:
I do realize that S/L set bonuses provide melee defense and vice versa. It is simply less efficient to use a set that provides more melee defense than S/L, if you are going for S/L defense. Considering the defense gained in the categories you are going for, per slot expended, determines how efficient it is to use a certain set. For example, a Gaussian's set is not very efficient in the OP's build. He appeared to be going for S/L defense or melee, which he would be gaining 1.25% or 2.5% defense. There are plenty of 3.75% defense sets for 6 slots if he wanted that instead. It is just a matter of picking the right set. I'm not saying you should never use inefficient sets to gain defense. They should just be the last sets you slot in the build if you are just barely short of your defense goal.|
Originally Posted by abnormal_joe
First off focusing on which defense type is generally good advice. However s/l and melee are not an either/or proposition. Slotting kin combats for 3.5 s/l happens to give you 1.88 melee as a by product. On a tank that has plenty of pbaoes in which to slot Oblit such as a fire/ss it makes sense to slot for s/l in the ST attacks.
Second you really only need 2 pools to hit softcap on a FA. I've done it twice using only Combat Jumping, and Weave in addition to IOs. Finally I have to take exception to that last remark. While it may not be possible to be an unsupported main team tank and also do enough damage to solo AVs, there is no reason whatsoever to have to choose between personal damage output and survivability. Just to give you something to compare to here is one of the builds for my fire/ss/pyre. I sacrificed nothing in terms of damage and he main tanks just fine. It could be softcapped to 4 dmg types with the addition of a pvp IO and a few tweaks but this does the job just fine for me. |
Your build is a perfect example that proves my other point. It completely lacks global recharge bonuses because you went for defense bonuses. I'm sure it does DPS fine, but a build with global recharge would be able to use damage powers more often, thus doing more DPS.
I use a combo of ninja run and sprint for mobility.
The mocking beratement thing was there because I had some concerns about facing fire damage. Its turning out to not be an issue.
One could probably take those 2 slots out of taunt/hurl and add them to char to pick up another 7.5 rech.
2 -kb is probably enough for most things so you could probably steal a slot from there to add another lotg 7.5 to weave.
I do have a miracle slotted in health as well as a gen recovery IO in stamina.
I opted for cardiac alpha which allows me to attack nonstop without the blue bar moving.
Spiritual would add a fair chunk of dps without really giving you end problems.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
Once again thanks for everything.
@Abnormal_joe - I don't know if i can get away without a travel power...maybe i'll have to break down and buy the booster for ninja run or simply craft a few jet packs since your style seems to be, with a little modification, how i can make him the most survivable while not giving up too much.
Hopefully a few more people with chime in with builds just for some other opinions, otherwise i'm gonna to try rebuilding him since i have the technology in the next few days and see if i can do a better job of it next time.
Started my FA/SS Tank over double xp weekend and I'm having a ton of fun with it. So I'm starting to think about my level 50 final IO build and have been constructing builds like crazy trying to balance good bonus defenses (though i'm not sure i can afford to get to the soft cap from either positional or S/L due to low total funds..I"m already stretching it with 12 Obliterations, 8 Kinetic Combats, 4 LotGs and the various Regen/Recovery procs), recharge, and damage. I'm only worried that I'm trying to get too many things and making myself more of a swiss army knife as opposed to the rambo knife I really want to be.
Please feel free to completely change anything, as right now I'm more concerned with different perspectives than sticking to a very basic plan. Also don't pay too much attention to the levels where slots were assigned on my build. At the time I made this i was more concerned about getting the right slots in the right spots.
Have at it! And thanks in advance for taking the time to help a tank/IO noob!
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
VK Test : Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Shield -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(3), TtmC'tng-EndRdx/Rchg(3), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5), TtmC'tng-ResDam(5), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(7)
Level 1: Jab -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(45), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 2: Healing Flames -- Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(7), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(11)
Level 4: Blazing Aura -- Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(33), Sciroc-Dam%(34), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(46), Armgdn-Dam%(46)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Krma-ResKB(A)
Level 8: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 10: Consume -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(11), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(29), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(29)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(13), TtmC'tng-EndRdx/Rchg(13), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), TtmC'tng-ResDam(15), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(19)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Burn -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(21), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Oblit-%Dam(23)
Level 20: Boxing -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A)
Level 22: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A), RctvArm-ResDam(25), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(25), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), RctvArm-EndRdx(27)
Level 26: Knockout Blow -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(34), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(34), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), T'Death-Dam%(37)
Level 28: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(33), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(37), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(40), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(42), GSFC-Build%(45)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), LkGmblr-Def(31)
Level 32: Rise of the Phoenix -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 41: Char -- Lock-%Hold(A), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42)
Level 44: Melt Armor -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Temperature Protection -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(45), RgnTis-Regen+(50)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(36), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(50)