No, EBs do NOT maintain AV debuff resistance. The main attribute an EB inherits from an AV is purple triangles indicating extraordinarily high mez protection.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Do we know the resistance values though? Are they the same ones used for bosses? That would be 35% debuff resist for a +1 boss, right?
Playing CoH with Gestures
As far as I know, neither bosses nor elite bosses have debuff resistance from their rank. So against a +1 boss your debuffs would be 90% as effective because of their level modifier.
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Actually this is innaccurate. I wouldn't swear it for all AVs, but I know that the ones I have tested do maintain their 85% debuff resistance when they scale down (sucks I know). In the mission you are discussing though, they actually aren't scaled down AVs, they are EBs to start with (It's a weakened Honoree, not the Honoree from the LGTF). In this case, Garent is almost right, they have no inherent debuff resistance...EXCEPT, EBs and Bosses have 20% resistance to to-hit debuffs (Lts. have 10%)|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
No, EBs do NOT maintain AV debuff resistance. The main attribute an EB inherits from an AV is purple triangles indicating extraordinarily high mez protection.
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Hope that solved the mystery.
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
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Ah, it did! Thanks. Almost four years and still learning about the old stuff (not to mention the cool new stuff). Gotta love this game. |
Originally Posted by Draggynn
Hope that solved the mystery.
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On an unrelated note... Cool guide. Been following it and waiting for those last 3 powers.
Playing CoH with Gestures
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If they have the purple triangles, then in my experience they're downgraded AVs.
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Originally Posted by Draggynn
Actually this is innaccurate. I wouldn't swear it for all AVs, but I know that the ones I have tested do maintain their 85% debuff resistance when they scale down (sucks I know). In the mission you are discussing though, they actually aren't scaled down AVs, they are EBs to start with (It's a weakened Honoree, not the Honoree from the LGTF). In this case, Garent is almost right, they have no inherent debuff resistance...EXCEPT, EBs and Bosses have 20% resistance to to-hit debuffs (Lts. have 10%)
Hope that solved the mystery. |
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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They're AVs. They only drop down to EBs if your settings are set to do that.|
Originally Posted by Draggynn
In the mission you are discussing though, they actually aren't scaled down AVs, they are EBs to start with (It's a weakened Honoree, not the Honoree from the LGTF). In this case, Garent is almost right, they have no inherent debuff resistance...EXCEPT, EBs and Bosses have 20% resistance to to-hit debuffs (Lts. have 10%)
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As for debuff resistance, it seems odd that they would have resistance ONLY to to-hit according to your testing. Is your experience getting skewed by the accuracy (not to-hit) bonus that enemies above minion rank have?
For reference: Lieutenants have a 15% accuracy bonus, bosses have 30%, and AVs have 50%. That's why an even level AV's chance to hit will floor at 7.5 instead of 5% even if you're soft capped.
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Well, miffed at being called inaccurate, I went off to prove that I was correct, but I was not. I just went to fight Chimera as EB and AV and the Power Analyzer shows him to have 84% debuff resists for Regen, Recovery, ToHit, Rech, Def as an EB, 85% as an AV. Not sure if that 1% is some sort of rounding error or what.
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Originally Posted by Draggynn
Actually this is innaccurate. I wouldn't swear it for all AVs, but I know that the ones I have tested do maintain their 85% debuff resistance when they scale down (sucks I know). In the mission you are discussing though, they actually aren't scaled down AVs, they are EBs to start with (It's a weakened Honoree, not the Honoree from the LGTF). In this case, Garent is almost right, they have no inherent debuff resistance...EXCEPT, EBs and Bosses have 20% resistance to to-hit debuffs (Lts. have 10%)
Hope that solved the mystery. |
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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Are you sure about that Garent? I have not tested this myself, but trusted paragonwiki which has them listed as EBs not AVs. The wiki could very well be wrong, so if you have tested this, I will defer to your experience.|
Originally Posted by Garent
They're AVs. They only drop down to EBs if your settings are set to do that.
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http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mender_Ramiel
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As for debuff resistance, it seems odd that they would have resistance ONLY to to-hit according to your testing. Is your experience getting skewed by the accuracy (not to-hit) bonus that enemies above minion rank have? For reference: Lieutenants have a 15% accuracy bonus, bosses have 30%, and AVs have 50%. That's why an even level AV's chance to hit will floor at 7.5 instead of 5% even if you're soft capped. |
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Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
Well, miffed at being called inaccurate, I went off to prove that I was correct, but I was not. I just went to fight Chimera as EB and AV and the Power Analyzer shows him to have 84% debuff resists for Regen, Recovery, ToHit, Rech, Def as an EB, 85% as an AV. Not sure if that 1% is some sort of rounding error or what.
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Originally Posted by DrGamma
Ah, it did! Thanks. Almost four years and still learning about the old stuff (not to mention the cool new stuff). Gotta love this game.
On an unrelated note... Cool guide. Been following it and waiting for those last 3 powers. |
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
Quote:
Absolutely positive. I've fought them as AVs both in beta and on live, and haven't seen a note about changing. I'll try to run the arc again with AVs on just to make sure I'm not hallucinating, and if I see them as AVs again I'll change paragonwiki.|
Originally Posted by Draggynn
Are you sure about that Garent? I have not tested this myself, but trusted paragonwiki which has them listed as EBs not AVs. The wiki could very well be wrong, so if you have tested this, I will defer to your experience.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mender_Ramiel |
As for the debuff resistances on things below AV, it looks like I'll need to fire up my surveillance and look around since this is stuff I never knew about.
If they are downgraded AVs, than either something changed with the downgraded AV debuff resistance, or these particular guys in the alpha slot unlocking arc behave differently.
When I soloed, for instance, the old version of the Praetorian AVs (downgraded to EBs) I remember quite clearly having to use purple insps to complement my def and debuffs, or those AVs completely owned me. It got annoying enough in some missions with two AVs that I went for a rare bit of non-soloing and recruited a scrapper played by a friend of mine to give me a hand.
Now, when I soloed the alpha slot arc, I knew about the AVs (or EBs?), brought a bunch of purples to the missions and... never used them. Those EBs had their to hit floored (not as low as 5% due to their accuracy, I know, but still floored), just by my 27% defense and my ED-capped RI. This experience, then, was different from my experience with downgraded AVs in the past, which is why I asked. If they really are AVs, downgraded because of my difficulty settings, then I'm still curious...
I asked because I thought people would have noticed this before (or would quickly point an obvious flaw I missed in my thinking). Guess I could always be less lazy, craft a power analyser and go check the baddies in that arc and in some other AV filled arc... But, to me, that starts to look too much like a job, and mine has been annoying enough lately! 
Playing CoH with Gestures
Hi everybody,
I have always been under the impression that AVs, even when scaled down to EBs, retain their high debuff resistance (85% @ levels 50 and 51), right?
But if that is the case, I can't figure out how the Honoree and Holtz were missing my rad/rad so much earlier today, though.
That character (Dr.Gamma, responsible for my global and forum handle) currently has only about 27% ranged def. from pools and IOs. With RI slotted for to-hit debuff around the ED cap (let's say 56%) I should be debuffing those guys for only 31.25 * 1.56 * .15, or about 7.3%. Adding that to my defense, it should be like having a defense in the neighbourhood of 34%, right?
Well, while I was fighting those AVs, scaled down to lvl 50 EBs, the to-hit rolls for them in my combat window kept showing lower numbers than I expected: around 6.5% and 7% chance to hit me. I had a bunch of purples saved up in my tray that I never used (once I realized what was going on).
So... What was going on there?
Thanks in advance for any answers,
Dr.Gamma.
P.S.: I almost made a joke about this in that "Accuracy WAS nerfed" thread, about it being nerfed on those EBs... But decided not to feed the fire.
Playing CoH with Gestures