returning player needing big help with slotting and inventions


ChillBlaze_NA

 

Posted

I recently have come back after a 4 year lay-off. I played for about 2 years and left right when the salvage system started. I have tried to read up about the invention system, but I'm really confused. I understand the big picture, but can't grasp the details enough to decide what to slot and how. Therefore, I'm hoping some of you vet's can help me. There are some conditions I'd like to request. Firstly, if possible, I'd like to not just get a quick answer of "put (x) slots in this power and use this set to fill it". Rather, I would love a little more reasoning as to why you advise that. Secondly, I am not rich with influence/infamy and I'm on a tight budget. I have seen some recipes go for $200,000,000 each (not including the salvage to build them), and I don't have but about $60,000,000 total. Granted, I will be earning as I go, and I have some good friends that have played forever willing to help. I am not looking for "god mode", I just want a reasonable build that is affordable to fund w/out selling my soul. So don't fill this with all ultra rares that would cause me to mortgage my home.

I'll take whatever advice I can get, but I really want to understand the why's of your choices so that I can do it myself on my other builds. I have a black widow around lvl 33 now, so lets work on it. I can take constructive help on the build itself, but I'm more interested in slotting and filling those slots ( and more importantly, why I should do it that way). Here goes. Thanks in advance for the help.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Poison Dart

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Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive
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Level 2: Combat Training: Offensive
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Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers
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Level 6: Hurdle
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Level 8: Follow Up
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Level 10: Indomitable Will
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Level 12: Lunge
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Level 14: Health
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Level 16: Smoke Grenade
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Level 18: Slash
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Level 20: Stamina
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Level 22: Combat Jumping
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Level 24: Mind Link
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Level 26: Mental Training
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Level 28: Hasten
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Level 30: Super Jump
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Level 32: Mask Presence
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Level 35: Tactical Training: Leadership
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Level 38: Foresight
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Level 41: School of Sharks
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Level 44: Arctic Breath
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Level 47: Elude
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Level 49: Super Speed
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Level 1: Brawl
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Level 1: Sprint
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Level 2: Rest
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Level 1: Conditioning
Level 6: Ninja Run
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Posted

The primary goal when IO'ing out a night widow is to get to the def softcap (45%) to all positions when Mind Link is up, then get enough global recharge for mind link to be perma. That means that you need to slot for ranged and AE def, as you have enough melee def from your base power, and for recharge. You also want to slot Mind link with def/recharge IO's from various sets because while you can't directly slot recharge IO's or SO's in the power it WILL benefit from set IO's that have recharge in them.

With that in mind, I took a look at your sample build. I moved around almost all the slots, changed the order of some powers and dropped some things that would be mostly worthless due to a combination of IO bonuses and other factors. You had also far overslotted a lot of things - with ED and the extra enhancement you get from set IO's that enhance multiple aspects you only need to fully 6 slot powers that need to have a lot of different aspects enhanced, usually attacks. For example, 6 slots in hasten is wasted as after the first 3 slots you get like 5% recharge per slot.

The specific power changes I made where the following:

1) I dropped out CT: offensive - it gives you a fairly minor accuracy bonus and between my suggested slotting for attacks, +acc bonuses from IO sets and TT: Leadership your to hit should be huge. I replaced it with strike as removing extra slots from health and hasten freed up a lot of extra slots, plus followup + lunge + Slash is a pretty slow single target attack chain.
2) I swapped hasten and foresight so you could take foresight by L28. Foresight is one of your key defensive powers, giving you nearly 12% def in all positions and you don't want to lose it if you SK down. Personally, I would recommend taking it at L22 and putting combat jumping off until 28.
3) I dropped elude - if you get enough recharge to get mind link up permanently you will be at the def softcap and any def above 45% is wasted except in rare circumstances (lots of def debuffs). I replaced it with TT: vengance. You can swap back if you want but I dislike crashing god mode power, especially when they don't buy you much - alternatively you could take TT: Assault for bonus damage, but vengence is nice for team play.

I slotted the following sets for the following reasons:

1) Crushing impact in all single target melee attacks - as IO sets go, it is fairly cheap on the market (5-8 million per set, possibly cheaper if you shop carefully) and it gives you good enhancement bonuses and 5% global recharge for a set of 5. I finished out all single target melee attacks with a Focused smite accuracy/end reduction/recharge triple IO to maximize recharge and end reduction slotting on all attacks and to get accuracy to 60%
2) Thunderstrike in Poison dart: gives you 3.75% ranged def and good enhancement bonuses, costs about the same as crushing impact on the market.
3) Red Fortune in Tactical Training: Manuevers for the 2.5% bonus to ranged def and 5% to recharge. This is also a fairly cheap set that caps def enhancement and end reduction in the power.
4) I franken-slotted mind link with defense/recharge IO's from 4 different sets and a recharge IO from the adjusted targetting set to cap recharge in the power and come very close to capping def.
5) I put a set of 5 adjusted targetting in TT: Leadership because it gives you a 5% global recharge bonus and nice enhancement bonuses, it also tends to be a cheap set.
6) I put a set of 5 debilitative action in school of sharks for the 2.5% AE def. All the IO sets for immobilize powers are cheap except the rares in Trap of the hunter, so this is a good power to slot purely for set bonuses.
7) I frankenslotted arctic breath with various targeted AoE set IO's to maximize enhancement bonuses. The only good IO set you can put in here is positron's blast and it is NOT cheap.
8) Finally, I put a Steadfast protection +3% defense IO in Indomitable will. This is not a cheap IO (5-15 million depending on the current market) but 3% def to all positions for a single IO is to good to pass up.

The net result of the current slotting is that when Mind Link is active you will be well over the softcap for melee, slightly over it for ranged and right at it for AE def. One note - If you open the build below in mids and look at the totals it will show you at 43% AoE def, this is because I turned off mask presence as Mids adds in the full 7.5% def from the power, even though 5% of it goes away if you attack. I adjust for that by turning off mask presence and mentally adding 2.5% (the supressed value of mp's def) to all the totals.

A final note: with the global recharge from the IO sets I slotted mind link will not quite be permanent, you have about 8 seconds while it is down although it will be far better than permanent while hasten is up. You also had a lot of extra slots because you took so few attacks overall and only needed to 3 slot health, hasten and a couple other powers you had originally 6 slotted. I sprinkled the spare slots around to make room for the following expensive IO's if you can get your hands on them:

1) I left spare slots in CT: defensive, Combat Jumping, Foresight and Mask presence as possible places to put Luck of the Gambler +7.5% global recharge IO's. These are VERY expensive (they are the ones that someone probably told you they spent 200 million on) but if you run strike forces or task forces (Imperious and Lady Grey Task forces) you can save up merits to buy them - they cost 200 merits which is about 4-5 ITF's per IO. If you can get your hands on 3 of these Mind Link will be perma without hasten - but you don't have to.
2) I left a spare slot in stamina for a Performance Shifter chance for +end IO. This one you might be able to get for a reasonable price on the market but also costs 150 reward merits. It gives a nice bonus to end and when hasten is up you are going to burn end like a bandit.

Alternatively you could drop one of your utility or movement powers and pick up another attack - both spin and eviscerate are awesome AE attacks and smoke grenade, for example, is not buying you much as you don't need the -to hit from it and mask presence + super speed will give you full invisibility.

With that said, here is a build:

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.704
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Poison Dart -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(7), DefBuff-I(7), Empty(43)
Level 2: Strike -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(33), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(33), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), RedFtn-Def(34), RedFtn-EndRdx(34)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Follow Up -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), F'dSmite-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(39)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), F'dSmite-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 14: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(37), Heal-I(37)
Level 16: Smoke Grenade -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Slash -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), F'dSmite-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(25), EndMod-I(25), Empty(40)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), Empty(50)
Level 24: Mind Link -- Krma-Def/Rchg(A), Ksmt-Def/Rchg(27), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(27), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-Rchg(29)
Level 26: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Foresight -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(31), Empty(40)
Level 30: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 32: Mask Presence -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(46), Empty(50)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Leadership -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(42)
Level 38: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: School of Sharks -- DblAc-Acc/Rchg(A), DblAc-Rchg/Immob(42), DblAc-Acc/EndRdx(42), DblAc-Immob/Rng(43), DblAc-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Arctic Breath -- AirB'st-Acc/Dmg(A), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(45), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(45), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- Krma-Def/Rchg(A), Ksmt-Def/Rchg(48), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(48), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(48), AdjTgt-Rchg(50)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Empty(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 6: Ninja Run
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Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13

 

Posted

Just as a contrast, here is the build I currently have for my night widow. She is level 44 and is mostly melee focused, both single target and AoE. She has perma-mindlink and is softcapped to all positions. She keeps most of her bonuses when SK'ing down as far as L30. This is not a horribly cheap build although most of the really expensive stuff is the LoTG +recharge IO's and the miracle +recovery, which I bought with merits earned in TF's. I skipped follow up and took build up instead so I could leverage burst damage - its more a playstyle choice than anything else.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.704
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

d: Level 48 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(11), DefBuff-I(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40)
Level 2: Strike -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), F'dSmite-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(17), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(31), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def(36), RedFtn-EndRdx(36)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 12: Spin -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(13), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(15), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 14: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Heal-I(40)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(37)
Level 18: Slash -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), F'dSmite-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(25), EndMod-I(25)
Level 22: Foresight -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(23), DefBuff-I(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 24: Mask Presence -- EndRdx-I(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 26: Mind Link -- RedFtn-Def/Rchg(A), Krma-Def/Rchg(27), Ksmt-Def/Rchg(27), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-Rchg(31)
Level 28: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 30: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Eviscerate -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(33), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(33), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Tactical Training: Leadership -- AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTgt-ToHit(39), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(39), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(39), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Gloom -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(42), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Ruin-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Summon Widow -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- Empty(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 6: Ninja Run
------------


Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13

 

Posted

Thank you very much for the detailed help. That is what I was looking for. Just a question or two for you, though.

1. Are you saying I don't need hasten, or that I need hasten to get almost to perma mind link?

2. I noticed alot of the sets you put into the build were lvl 30ish (or less that 50). So that means as I hit 30, for example, I should start slotting all of the 30's set IO's in that lvl. I suppose what I'm saying is, I don't have to wait for a final respec to start plugging these things in. I can plug as I pick them up.

3. I noticed that you didn't put in set's for health and end. Is that because they really aren't worth it, or that because the cost to benefit was out of budget?


And I really appreciate the help. This helps me and you explained well. I may post a scrapper build for help, too. I have a new Electric/Shield that is lvl 20ish. Anyway, that is for another time. Ty again for all the effort!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChillBlaze_NA View Post
Thank you very much for the detailed help. That is what I was looking for. Just a question or two for you, though.

1. Are you saying I don't need hasten, or that I need hasten to get almost to perma mind link?
In the build I gave you above you DO need hasten to make mind link permanent, although without hasten you only have about 8 seconds of down time. If you can get your hands on 2-3 LoTG +recharges then you WILL have perma mind link without hasten but as noted, the only way to get those on your current budget is to earn merits through TF's.

Quote:
2. I noticed alot of the sets you put into the build were lvl 30ish (or less that 50). So that means as I hit 30, for example, I should start slotting all of the 30's set IO's in that lvl. I suppose what I'm saying is, I don't have to wait for a final respec to start plugging these things in. I can plug as I pick them up.
The short answer is yes, you can start plugging things in as you pick them up.

The longer answer: With invention enhancements, the higher level they are the more enhancement value you get. For example, a level 30 common damage IO gives you 34.8% enhancment, a level 50 common damage IO would give you 42.4% enhancement. The dual and triple IO's from the sets increase in a similar fasion. I habitually slot up L30 IO's to get a feel for the average enhancement value and that way I don't overestimate things and I know what my build wil be like as I level up, where if I slotted all L50 I would not be able to even start on the build until L47 at the earliest.

You also won't always be able to get an IO at a certain level, especially if you are trying to buy them cheaply. Common IO's come at 5 levels like SO's do but set IO's drop at EVERY level in their set range. For example, the crushing impact set has a range of L30-L50 and will drop at all levels in that range. So when you go shopping for crushing impact sets you may find, say, the Accuracy/damage recipe selling at L31,32, 35, 37, 42 and 50 but not at 30, and the L32 might be the cheapest one.


Quote:
3. I noticed that you didn't put in set's for health and end. Is that because they really aren't worth it, or that because the cost to benefit was out of budget?
A little of both - the only heal set that gives you really good set bonuses is numina's convalescence and you need 6 pieces for the ranged def bonus and it is the most expensive heal set on the market, since one of it's pieces is a unique IO that sells for 150-200 million or more. The performance shifter set in stamina would also give some ok set bonuses but it is fairly expensive, if not so much as numina's.

Also, since stamina and health are auto powers that have no recharge or end cost most of the enhancement value provided by the heal and end mod sets would be wasted. Unless you want the set bonuses, these sets are best used in actual clicky heal or end powers.

For your electric/shield scrapper I would definitely suggest searching the scrapper forum for builds - thats all they do over there, is generate builds. Here is a good thread with some cheap, medium and expensive build options:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=216944

One warning, the scrapper forum regulars are a bunch of serious min/maxing power gamers (and I say that with respect :-) and their idea of 'cheap' is not everyone's idea.


Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13

 

Posted

thanks again. i really appreciate the help


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricHough View Post
A little of both - the only heal set that gives you really good set bonuses is numina's convalescence and you need 6 pieces for the ranged def bonus and it is the most expensive heal set on the market, since one of it's pieces is a unique IO that sells for 150-200 million or more. The performance shifter set in stamina would also give some ok set bonuses but it is fairly expensive, if not so much as numina's.

Also, since stamina and health are auto powers that have no recharge or end cost most of the enhancement value provided by the heal and end mod sets would be wasted. Unless you want the set bonuses, these sets are best used in actual clicky heal or end powers.
That being said, you can pick up the +chance for Endurance proc from Performance Shifter for only 125 merits at a vendor and a straight endmod from the same set and plug both of those into Stamina for the 2-piece set bonus. Granted this is only a +5% to all movement speeds, but it is a bonus.

Another reason most people tend to slot level 30-ish IO sets when possible is because that level scales the best for exemplaring/malefactoring down. A person with all level 50 IO's has the best bonuses from their enhancements, but they only get the full effect exactly at level 50. Being dragged down a few levels doesn't hurt the bonuses much, but being dragged down a dozen or more levels below the level of the IO starts to REALLY cut the effective bonus from it down.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard View Post
That being said, you can pick up the +chance for Endurance proc from Performance Shifter for only 125 merits at a vendor and a straight endmod from the same set and plug both of those into Stamina for the 2-piece set bonus. Granted this is only a +5% to all movement speeds, but it is a bonus.
Good catch - this is actually quite a good IO to pick up. You might even be able to buy it for a reasonable price on the market, although I don't know its current price range.

Quote:
Another reason most people tend to slot level 30-ish IO sets when possible is because that level scales the best for exemplaring/malefactoring down. A person with all level 50 IO's has the best bonuses from their enhancements, but they only get the full effect exactly at level 50. Being dragged down a few levels doesn't hurt the bonuses much, but being dragged down a dozen or more levels below the level of the IO starts to REALLY cut the effective bonus from it down.
Not true - enhancement scaling when exemplared has the same effect on you whether you have L30 IO's or L50 IO's - unless the bonus from the enhancement falls below a certain level, all bonuses are scaled the same way. Here is a guide on the wiki to how and when enhancements are scaled:

http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Exempl...n_Enhancements

Basically, the only reason for slotting lower level IO's is if you want to keep the SET bonuses - for example, if you have a set of 5 crushing impact and they are all L50, exemplaring below L47 will cause you to lose the set bonuses (the 5% global recharge, 7% accuracy, 1.12% HP and 2.2% immobilize resistance that a 5 piece set of CI's gives you). So, if you expect to play on lower level teams or run lower level taskforces, you slot a set of L30 crushing impacts instead and then you can exemplar down to L27 and still keep the set bonuses. However, the actual enhancment values themselves will be scaled based on the forumula in the web page above.


Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13