Thoughts on my tank build


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
To me it's not an issue of maybe/maybe not at all. If the mods are dead by the time you finish debuffing then you are over-debuffing. In an ideal world you apply all of your de-buffs to every mob (recharge timers permitting). In practice the rest of the team is dealing damage while you debuff. Assume a fight lasts X seconds, most of the time any debuffs cast after the halfway point are wasted (the obvious exceptions are AV fights or tossing off a mez to save someone). For a debuffing Defender if you don't have time to blast then you need to cut back on the debuffs since you're not helping. There is no point in debuffing an enemy that dies two seconds later.

Oh in that case Trick Archery is OP'd. Fight durations are expected to meet on average 20s. They don't always but sometimes they will. Passed a certain point I would of finished debuffing prior to the 20s. Groups/fight points can differ in difficulty within a mission. Team moving at speed I am there to act not spend time assessing.

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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
For example on my Traps Defender I have 6 Traps I can potentially use on a spawn (I skipped the two explosives and FFG is always up). The only one I use on every group is Acid Mortar since resistance debuffs always help. The others I use when appropriate but if the team is fine without them then I generally hold off so I can focus on damage. Web Grenade is a nice recharge debuff but in general it only comes out for AVs or if I want to corral a boss for Ignite. Caltrops is mostly a solo power, I use them on teams which are light on melee characters and Controllers but most of the time the spawn isn't running around enough to need them. Triage Beacon is a nice bit of regen but most teams move so fast it's not worth it so I tend to only bother if it's clear we'll be in the area for a while (such as an Av or two spawns very close together). Poison Trap is again a nice debuff and hold but most spawns don't last long enough for it to be needed, I'm more likely to use it to stop a loose enemy (although even there I prefer Thunder Strike). Seeker Drones are probably the power I use the second most, I tend to toss them out even when they aren't needed just because they are a very nice debuff and can help with the alpha strike if needed.
Your running FFG. If the empath could boost defense of everyone or play other peoples characters to avoid those characters doing terminally stupid things...then they wouldn't see the point in playing a pacifist. However a pacifist (it's actually nigh on most people do) is attractive. Playing Traps is a damn sight easier than playing an empath. If you might make a pacifist "insert anyother defender here" then you'd deserve eggs thrown at you because that can be argued as choosing to be lazy much easier than it can with empaths. As an empath myself (I have all the powersets) I have come across the most diabolical teams, some people non the wiser level up with them and some of those people will love the lure of playing a nurse and there is nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
My TA/A is similar. I use Acid Arrow and Disruption Arrow all the time. I tend to drop Glue arrow on most spawns but if I'm using Oil Slick I'll skip it for that spawn. Flash Arrow I use if I get there before the rest of the team, but I don't worry if I have to skip it. Poison Gas Arrow I reserve for teams that are struggling. Ice Arrow I mostly use re-actively if it's needed. EMP I either use in place of Glue/Oil Slick or as a panic button depending on how the team is doing..
I would seperate what joy I have from a archery blaster and a trick archer. They would have to differ in order to enjoy two different concepts and some others may do that. With TA I would vary, my powers become more and more convenient depending on what powersets are in team, what we are up against and what's available. TA pacifists don't exist as far as I know but they can through what powersets are in team, unpredictability of events slam every debuff they have before looking to attack. Even with every debuff down you can't necessarily foresee complete survivability otherwise TAs would be highly rated.

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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
I disagree. I play pretty aggressively on all my characters but when I die I never think "stupid Empath didn't heal me" I think "well, that was a bad idea". Death is pretty much meaningless in this game so unless people are dying frequently enough to slow the team down then it really doesn't matter if someone dies. Unless the team is really awful the Empath will contribute more to team speed by blasting than they will sitting there watching life bars. As for pro-active CM, I'm ambivalent about it, it's nice against some enemy groups (such as Malta) but most of the time mezzes are rare enough that the Empath spends more time casting CM than other people save by not being mezzed (especially if there are other defenders withsignificant Defense buffs). Personally given the choice between an Empath who blasts but doesn't even have CM and one who doesn't blast and uses it pro-actively I'd much rather have the blasting one on my team, I'll just grab some BFs.
Not everybody thinks the same. People on my server used to get ranked. Who is the best. Opinions mattered if you wanted to get in a team. The way things go becomes the way of the world. One player infects another. It has died down much since debt was reduced but people can still love an empath on the ball. Some players will pride themselves on being on the ball as it is better to keep say a scrapper dealing damage than to have them die and need resurrecting in a compromiseable place. Then like I say some empaths may have a build that buffs and runs in PvP or a utility build for as many different teams as possible with one key thing in mind and that is they perform their main role well. I have assault on my empath. If I don't have time to deal damage, seven others combined are making up for it. Then in pvp I offer resist to taunt and placate. Forget other peoples builds, they're mostly derived from playing with people you haven't met or for serving some function. It's when you have a empath that doesn't pro buff, isn't watching healthbars, doesn't attack but manages to rock an aura even when no one needs healing that there is a problem. I don't have a problem with pacifist builds I have a problem with players who are simply asleep.


AoEs can involve a mezz. I am not for proactively cm'ing the entire team, just certain members of. But CM is not just for mezzes it's +per too, great versus arachnos.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

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Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
Oh in that case Trick Archery is OP'd. Fight durations are expected to meet on average 20s. They don't always but sometimes they will. Passed a certain point I would of finished debuffing prior to the 20s. Groups/fight points can differ in difficulty within a mission. Team moving at speed I am there to act not spend time assessing.
Come again? I'm completely and utterly lost as to what point you're trying to make here.

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Your running FFG. If the empath could boost defense of everyone or play other peoples characters to avoid those characters doing terminally stupid things...then they wouldn't see the point in playing a pacifist. However a pacifist (it's actually nigh on most people do) is attractive. Playing Traps is a damn sight easier than playing an empath. If you might make a pacifist "insert anyother defender here" then you'd deserve eggs thrown at you because that can be argued as choosing to be lazy much easier than it can with empaths. As an empath myself (I have all the powersets) I have come across the most diabolical teams, some people non the wiser level up with them and some of those people will love the lure of playing a nurse and there is nothing wrong with that.
I don't really think playing Traps is a lot easier than playing an Empath it just requires a different skill set and focus. With Empathy you're watching your teammates, where are they, what are they doing? With Traps you're mostly watching the enemies to decide if you need to be dropping additional Traps to assist against clusters. But you're also watching your teammates. Several powers can be used proactively to assist teammates, from using web grenade to keep someone out of melee range to shifting position to cover a threatened blaster or just dropping Triage Beacon near a struggling scrapper. I really don't think any Defender powerset has a monopoly on effort some required. Some are definitely easier but I really don't think Empathy can claim to be the most effort requiring. It's got 4 reactive powers, but not a lot of reactive options, it can heal someone or cast clear mind that's it. Other powersets have a lot more flexibility in reacting for example Storm can heal them, knock the enemy away (hopefully in a sensible direction), mez the enemy (if it's a minion at least), stand next to the ally with Hurricane running or unleash a Tornado to throw the whole room into chaos (yes, there are times when this is the best response, they aren't good times).

So yeas, Empaths do require some focus. So does every other buff/debuff set out there. Claiming that Empathy requires so much more concentration than every other one out there that Empaths don't have time to blast is ludicrous. Claiming that the power of the set justifies this approach is hubris.

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I would seperate what joy I have from a archery blaster and a trick archer. They would have to differ in order to enjoy two different concepts and some others may do that. With TA I would vary, my powers become more and more convenient depending on what powersets are in team, what we are up against and what's available. TA pacifists don't exist as far as I know but they can through what powersets are in team, unpredictability of events slam every debuff they have before looking to attack. Even with every debuff down you can't necessarily foresee complete survivability otherwise TAs would be highly rated.
Correct, TA is not, at the end of the day, a particularly good set. It's got some nice pwoers and can increase the capabilities of a team but it lacks sufficient reactive capabilities and damage mitigation to guarantee the survival of an 8-man team on it's own. It's basically the complement of Empathy actually, both sets are at the extreme end of the buff/debuff line (Emapthy is pure buff, TA pure debuff) and both provide very strong capabilities in one area but lack the well-rounded nature of other sets which regulates them to second tier.

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It's when you have a empath that doesn't pro buff, isn't watching healthbars, doesn't attack but manages to rock an aura even when no one needs healing that there is a problem. I don't have a problem with pacifist builds I have a problem with players who are simply asleep.
This I do agree with, I don't care for pacifist empaths at the best of times but one who doesn't even bother to use buffs is far worse than one who simply doesn't attack.

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AoEs can involve a mezz. I am not for proactively cm'ing the entire team, just certain members of. But CM is not just for mezzes it's +per too, great versus arachnos.
Between Tactics and Force Field generator my Traps Defender provides everything Clear Mind does except for Sleep Protection plus it provides To Hit Debuff resistance against those Smoke grenades to boot. That being said, I agree there are times when using Clear Mind proactively is a good thing but at the end of the day I'm not going to rely on it. I build my characters to be self sufficient and plan ahead to have the inspirations I might need against the current enemy group. For example against Arachnos I'd plan on carrying some Break Frees and Insights unless the character had powers to replace them. For Carnival I'll carry some Catch a Breath. Against Cimerorians a few extra Lucks come in handy.


 

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There's one reason, one very -simple- reason why passive defenders (of -whatever- type) are never as useful as any other character in that slot.

Death = 100% damage mitigation.

If you're killing things, you don't have to debuff as much, you don't have to buff as much, you don't have to heal as much.

However, one note: Teams made up of 8 of one AT will always steamroll things, regardless of the AT, because they overproduce what their role is meant for (defs for buffs/debuffs, tankers or withstanding damage, scrappers for damage, blasters for damage, controllers for mezzes, etc.). That doesn't necessarily mean that the others aren't -needed- in a normal team. It -does- mean that once you hit that point where you're producing overkill in a certain area, it doesn't matter what else the rest of the team has to bring to the table.

That being said, on a normal team, Dechs is right. A passive defender is a waste of a slot. All he's doing is making it take longer to finish the mission. If you're on a PuG full of morons, then yeah, grab the emp who does nothing but heal cuz he's gonna be -busy-. But on a team with normal, thinking players? Not a chance.


The world is crazy. I offer this as proof; found on a butane lighter: Warning: Flame may cause fire.

You can sleep when you die.

 

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Originally Posted by GreySquirrel View Post
Death = 100% damage mitigation.
That's something that goes both ways. Some AV in the old days would wipe out a team and have complete damage mitigation. It was from the old days when people couldn't super spec their builds and people had no clue that empaths found themselves just permanently having to buff or heal everyone. People have a right to their opinions. I decided not to be bored with them now. I don't care what concepts people have, fussing over a little lack of damage is nerdlike, a life is needed by those that do care and are bothered.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.