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Which is better? That's a tough question to answer because of the variety of secondaries available to controllers and the individual builds. Are they using SO's or are they twinked out with lots of sets? What are you using it for? Regular team play, solo'ing, or farming? You'll have to narrow it down if you want a direct comparison.|
Originally Posted by theduke24
whats better a plant/thron dom or a plant troller, and which is more fun, why, give everything! and also whats the best secondary for a plant troller?
thanks  |
Which is more fun? That depends on your playstyle. I personally have enjoyed controllers much more than any doms I have attempted. I haven't taken a dom beyond level 35 though. For me they're very up and down and I found myself without a blue bar much more often that on a controller. I also tend to veer away from melee, but that's where doms get some of their best damage. Some say doms' playstyle is comparative to a blaster with holds.
For Plant controllers there are some very good choices for secondaries. Kinetics can boost your killspeed a good bit. Rad can also speed up your defeats, but also makes a good contribution to your safety. Storm mixes well with plant to create a sort of Jack of all trades. Those are the three that you'll probably see recommended most often.
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RI from /rad actually hurts the effectiveness of Seeds since the mobs are hitting less. EF doesn't really do anything for Seeds, the -res and -damage counter each other. Fulcrum and Siphon Power from /kin also are counter productive towards Seeds with their -dmg. /ta and /storm would be the top two picks for me. They both will get the best -res outside of /sonic on teams and add damage.|
Originally Posted by ketch
For Plant controllers there are some very good choices for secondaries. Kinetics can boost your killspeed a good bit. Rad can also speed up your defeats, but also makes a good contribution to your safety. Storm mixes well with plant to create a sort of Jack of all trades. Those are the three that you'll probably see recommended most often.
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For a dom, Plant/fire would be good.
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It doesn't really bother me that they hit each other less or for less damage when confused. Personally all that interests me from a confuse is they aren't attacking me or my team.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
RI from /rad actually hurts the effectiveness of Seeds since the mobs are hitting less. EF doesn't really do anything for Seeds, the -res and -damage counter each other. Fulcrum and Siphon Power from /kin also are counter productive towards Seeds with their -dmg. /ta and /storm would be the top two picks for me. They both will get the best -res outside of /sonic on teams and add damage.
For a dom, Plant/fire would be good. |
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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My understanding of the tohit mechanics, and I may be wrong, is that tohit and defense were essentially opposites and so a -25% tohit debuff on the attacker and -25% defense debuff on the target would essentially negate one another. You could speed up the mobs defeating themselves by slotting for more defense debuff than tohit debuff. You could also utilize the Achilles' Heel proc for a chance of increased damage. Also, while EV does nothing to increase confused mobs' kill speed it does increase your own.|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
RI from /rad actually hurts the effectiveness of Seeds since the mobs are hitting less. EF doesn't really do anything for Seeds, the -res and -damage counter each other. Fulcrum and Siphon Power from /kin also are counter productive towards Seeds with their -dmg. /ta and /storm would be the top two picks for me. They both will get the best -res outside of /sonic on teams and add damage.
For a dom, Plant/fire would be good. |
Kin may slow the speed of confused mobs but will increase your own killing speed with Roots, Creepers, and your epic AoE.
Im not sure how to answer this one, but for me its going to be a Plant/Thorn Dom.
I seem to have more control on my Earth/Earth build vs any Controllers iv played.I can also say the Dom im playing vs my Controllers have matching survivability, and my Controllers tend to Heal.Where as my Dom doesnt.
That says alot for my Dom vs my Healing and Debuffing Controller.
I have played a Plant/Rad Controller before, and could Tank decently, and solo decently.I would have no dout that when I roll my Plant/Thorn Dom that itll do just as good as my Earth/Earth Dom.
Id say for more over all capability, id go for a Dom.A Controller isnt bad either, but Doms make you feel like you are accomplishing something by having 2 roles on a team, or solo.
Control and Damage vs Control and Buffs/Debuffs/Heals.
Thats what you ask your self.Answer that, and you can pick with AT is for you.
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Pretty much, the Rad debuffs are neutral on confused foes for a Plant/Rad. When the resistance and damage are both debuffed, there isn't overall much effect. However, the Resistance Debuff lets your Roots do a lot more damage.|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
RI from /rad actually hurts the effectiveness of Seeds since the mobs are hitting less. EF doesn't really do anything for Seeds, the -res and -damage counter each other. Fulcrum and Siphon Power from /kin also are counter productive towards Seeds with their -dmg. /ta and /storm would be the top two picks for me. They both will get the best -res outside of /sonic on teams and add damage.
For a dom, Plant/fire would be good. |
One of the best parts of a Plant/Rad is the ability to use Roots+RI as a fill-in control power while Seeds is recharging. Roots keeps the foes from going anywhere, while RI keeps them from hitting you much -- almost like a pseudo-hold. In low levels, that combo really helps, and it keeps being useful in high levels, too.
So far, I've taken Plant/Rad to 50, and I have a Plant/Kin in the low 30's, and a Plant/Storm in the 20's. All of them are fun. I can see Plant/TA also being pretty good.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I have a minor addendum. The Radiation toggles are neutral if the enemy lacks defense debuff resistance, but will slow enemy kill speed if the enemy resists -defense. It would speed up enemy kill speed if they resist -tohit, but I'm not sure that kind of resistance exists.
Also, since -defense and -tohit are capped, I think you'd see a shift if you passed the caps on one debuff but not the other. That's unlikely with Plant/Rad but I can see an Earth/Rad hitting the floor on defense, which might result in slower kill speed when you applied more -ToHit. Not that it matters because this is a discussion about confusing mobs, which Earth can't do, but it might be a factor in teams.
One way or another though, I'm in the camp whose happy with Seeds just keeping things from attacking me and never really cared about how it affects enemies hitting each other.
EDIT: I should add that I'm assuming all of the enemies in a group are the same type. This is actually pretty rare in practice. It would be likely that enemies with -defense resistance would appear in a group with other enemies who don't resist it. Also, if there is an AV in the mix, the toggles will have very little effect on the AV but a large one on the enemies around it. Since we can assume the AV won't be getting confused, what this means is the toggles effectively make any enemies in the AVs group less likely to hurt the AV if they take a swing at it (since their -ToHit is lowered significantly but the AVs Defense is not). If we could somehow manage to confuse the AV, the AV would do massive damage to his or her own allies.
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Whatever you pick will be fun! |
Originally Posted by theduke24
whats better a plant/thron dom or a plant troller, and which is more fun, why, give everything! and also whats the best secondary for a plant troller?
thanks |
Plant is pretty unique. I have taken several to 50 on each side,
and enjoyed them a lot!
.
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That's why I said, "Pretty much," since there are always exceptions. Most of the time, the debuffs will have minimal net effect. If you really wanted to be picky, you could go into the small differences between Resistance Debuff and Damage Debuff in EF, but the difference will have such a small effect, it isn't worth mentioning. The bottom line is that Seeds is an AoE control that most importantly will control minions and lieutenants in good sized groups. The fact that they do some damage to each other which, as long as you also do some damage, will speed up your XP over time is not all that significant as long as you get the control.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I have a minor addendum. The Radiation toggles are neutral if the enemy lacks defense debuff resistance, but will slow enemy kill speed if the enemy resists -defense. It would speed up enemy kill speed if they resist -tohit, but I'm not sure that kind of resistance exists.
Also, since -defense and -tohit are capped, I think you'd see a shift if you passed the caps on one debuff but not the other. That's unlikely with Plant/Rad but I can see an Earth/Rad hitting the floor on defense, which might result in slower kill speed when you applied more -ToHit. Not that it matters because this is a discussion about confusing mobs, which Earth can't do, but it might be a factor in teams. One way or another though, I'm in the camp whose happy with Seeds just keeping things from attacking me and never really cared about how it affects enemies hitting each other. EDIT: I should add that I'm assuming all of the enemies in a group are the same type. This is actually pretty rare in practice. It would be likely that enemies with -defense resistance would appear in a group with other enemies who don't resist it. Also, if there is an AV in the mix, the toggles will have very little effect on the AV but a large one on the enemies around it. Since we can assume the AV won't be getting confused, what this means is the toggles effectively make any enemies in the AVs group less likely to hurt the AV if they take a swing at it (since their -ToHit is lowered significantly but the AVs Defense is not). If we could somehow manage to confuse the AV, the AV would do massive damage to his or her own allies. |
Since Plant control only has the one-shot AoE confuse, there is no chance to stack confuse on AVs without a bunch of Plant Controllers. However, just a few Illusion and/or Mind controllers can stack the single target Confuse on an AV to cause him to wipe out his minions -- I've done it a few times.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Once the PToD drop they'll happily do it. Hilarious when a bunch of people are standing about discussing who's going to tank the AV when it suddenly flips out and kills its friends (useful as a gentle prod to the team too). The "No Aggro" aspect of the Controller and Mind versions makes it very easy to achieve solo via stacking (once the PToD drop). I've even had it happen post-death that an EB standing over my corpse has suddenly decided to switch sides and beat up his mates.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
That's why I said, "Pretty much," since there are always exceptions. Most of the time, the debuffs will have minimal net effect. If you really wanted to be picky, you could go into the small differences between Resistance Debuff and Damage Debuff in EF, but the difference will have such a small effect, it isn't worth mentioning. The bottom line is that Seeds is an AoE control that most importantly will control minions and lieutenants in good sized groups. The fact that they do some damage to each other which, as long as you also do some damage, will speed up your XP over time is not all that significant as long as you get the control.
Since Plant control only has the one-shot AoE confuse, there is no chance to stack confuse on AVs without a bunch of Plant Controllers. However, just a few Illusion and/or Mind controllers can stack the single target Confuse on an AV to cause him to wipe out his minions -- I've done it a few times. |
My Plant / Storm just hit 47. He's been a solo monster. He's teamed up once in a while, but most of the time, I'm running solo with him. He's an absolute blast playing. I've played Doms a little here and there, but I'm more of a blue side player. Seeds and Carrion really makes a difference for plant and I would assume, red or blue side would enjoy the benifit from these powers.
Demonfest - 50 - Demon / Thermal Mastermind
Covered Shadow - 50 - Dark Melee / Shield Scrapper
whats better a plant/thron dom or a plant troller, and which is more fun, why, give everything! and also whats the best secondary for a plant troller?
thanks
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