[ QUOTE ]
Any other [Dual Blade] combo lowers your DPS.
[/ QUOTE ]
Despite the stacking bug, Empower->SS is higher DPS than BF->AV. That was before I14, I suspect it pulls ahead a bit more now with the new -res proc (both combos use it, but empower->SS chains attacks faster meaning procs go off more often).
I don't subscribe to the notion you have to use all the attacks in DB to be efficient, either. In my opinion, people tend to value combos too much. It is shiny and noticeable, what with the words showing up and all - and I don't say this in a derogatory way, psychologically it feels great to see combos go off.
Regardless of my feelings on the issue, from a pure performance point of view, 3 out of the 4 combos are selfsufficient. Empower->SS and BF->AV deal respectable ST damage, BF->Sweep->SS does good AoE damage. You don't need to have all 3 or even more than one, in fact I believe you're actually hurting your performance by having them all as you're limited by animation times.
A case can be made for having both Sweep and one of the ST combos to be able to switch between ST and AoE situations. I'd argue even the ST combos have some AoE damage, and there's the option of dual builds, but I understand it's not for everyone.
Still, you could say the same thing about, for example, Fire Melee. Fire Melee has the option to build a good attack chain with Fire Sword, Incinerate and GFS, and the option to have awesome AoE damage with Combustion, Breath of Fire and FSC. Scorch is a mandatory attack, leaving BU and Taunt. Yet I see plenty of FM builds lacking two, three or more FM powers.
Finally, something I haven't seen mentioned : DB can take up to 2 -res procs in fast recharging attacks. This is, in my experience, quite significant against tough targets such as AVs/GMs, especially for a team player as resistance debuffs buff everyone's damage, not just your own.
Edit : all this is a bit offtopic, because on the "WM against DB" debate, I think both sets are close enough in both ST and AoE performance the only concern should be, do you prefer slow and strong animations or quick and nimble ones ?
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah i noticed that after reading more. I see AV and think immediately to archvillain, what it was meant for. Even in a discussion with dual blades i think we should stricly keep AV as short for archvillain and actually type out attack vitals XD.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh, point taken. Most of the DPS discussions on the scrapper boards treat AV for Attack Vitals, even when attacking AVs. 
[ QUOTE ]
but 1000 cuts is awesome! Used for aoe its very nice, nice wide cone. I didn't say its aoe beat WM, though not far behind. I just said i figure DB as MORE of an aoe set, than it is a ST set with ease.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I really wanna like 1K Cuts, but it's soooo damn slow animating, that even though its DPA isn't so horrible, it drags down your overall DPS quite a bit because of its heavier weight on the avg. Still, I agree to the extend that DB has a very nice balance bet. its ST & AoE potential. And yeah, waiting til 38 for WM's 2 cones really sucks. Then again, tanks are used to crap like that (Footstomp at 38, GFS at 38 (at least you get Incinerate before), Frozen Aura at 38...).
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any other [Dual Blade] combo lowers your DPS.
[/ QUOTE ]
Despite the stacking bug, Empower->SS is higher DPS than BF->AV. That was before I14, I suspect it pulls ahead a bit more now with the new -res proc (both combos use it, but empower->SS chains attacks faster meaning procs go off more often).
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? Damn, I need to recalculate my attack chain then since that'll also recharge faster. 
[ QUOTE ]
Edit : all this is a bit offtopic, because on the "WM against DB" debate, I think both sets are close enough in both ST and AoE performance the only concern should be, do you prefer slow and strong animations or quick and nimble ones ?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I tend to agree, and would've leave it at that if this were a scrapper debate. I originally though w/tanks, you're really almost forced to take more powers than is desired just for the AV & Sweep combos, plus BF and the requisite Nimble. If you're doing Empower instead of AV, you can at least dump Vengeful which gives you a bit more breathing room, though not much.
Otoh, I just checked my DB/WP scrapper build and it turns out I use all but 1 attack in the build, a couple as IO mules, so I guess building a WP/DB or Invul/DB tank wouldn't be so different.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
[ QUOTE ]
Then again, tanks are used to crap like that (Footstomp at 38, GFS at 38 (at least you get Incinerate before), Frozen Aura at 38...).
[/ QUOTE ]
But dual blades isnt . At least in the general aoe attack area.
God i can't wait for elec melee for tanks though...
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
[ QUOTE ]
What is this AV chain you keep mentioning?
[/ QUOTE ]
AV = Attack Vitals. As I mention in my reply above, the BF > AV combo is your highest damaging attack chain, and by far, for the vast majority of DB scrappers and tanks. Any other combo you try to run *will* lower your DPS.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah i noticed that after reading more. I see AV and think immediately to archvillain, what it was meant for. Even in a discussion with dual blades i think we should stricly keep AV as short for archvillain and actually type out attack vitals XD.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DB isn't really for the ST monster, its much better as an aoe set.
[/ QUOTE ]
WM is far better for AoE than DB--DB can be quite the ST monster w/enough recharge (again, see my reply above this one). It is better for ST than WM, but there are other sets even better for tanks if you're looking for ST damage. Of course, those sets suck for AoE... Having said that, if you can fully leverage SS's cone, esp as part of the AV combo, then yeah, you can put out some very respectable AoE numbers. And Typhoon's Edge is only behind FSC and Foot Stomp for tanker PBAoEs. Too bad 1000 Cuts is so damn slow...
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
but 1000 cuts is awesome! Used for aoe its very nice, nice wide cone. I didn't say its aoe beat WM, though not far behind. I just said i figure DB as MORE of an aoe set, than it is a ST set with ease. The aoe on it is fairly wide and easy to use and recharges quickly. Typhoons edge for example, recharges, animates faster, and does more damage than whirling mace. And more importantly to me is available sooner. That's what really hurts me for WM personally is waiting so long for the aoe, needs mah aoesies!
both sets are really quite similar in performance. Its a big matter of the feel of the set, lethal versus smashing, and BF vs build up.
P.S. and oh yeah, if you manage the sweep combo, its an extra 50% damage off of typhoons edge. Just make sure you use your other cones first so you dont hinder dps by using the ST attacks to build up to the combo.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server