hedgehog_NA

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Or, what if they individually examine the Task Forces they're having issues with (as was done with Katie TFs), and try not to let other Task Forces get caught in the crossfire?

EDIT: In a few words, "fix what's causing problems." Shocking suggestion, I'm sure.

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QFT. Rather than taking a sledgehammer to a house to try and catch a mouse and wrecking the entire house...why not set a simple glue trap to catch him neatly and securely....

So how many people's pms to Posi still remain unread?

*raises hand*

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Unfortunately they cant do that because the very same players that spend all there time farming this or that, would simply then move onto the next most profitable TF v. Time invest to farm. Then the devs would spend more time "fixing" that TF to have the mobs move onto the next one, and the next. Setting a simple, and fully fair set of rules to ALL the TF/SF creates consistancy of the expectations for the system and becomes predictable for players instead of having rules that apply to this one or that one but not others. And saves the Devs time to created wanted new features rather then having to fix TF after TF as players migrate to the new Fast Cap experience.

And if i was Posi i would not be reading any PM that delt with this issue either. Its a fair change, to make a system work "as intended". Im sure the devs never intended you to be able to run 4-5 TFs in a one hour period for the rewards. Multiply that by people running 3-4 accounts in the same TFs with no one at the helm simply just there to get more loot, both the minimum spawn levels and the soft loading changes seem more then fair IMO. They really effect no one that wasnt looking for the easy way to exploit the recipie drop system to begin with.

Its really funny sometimes when i recall people crying for end game content and crafting and suchfor so long. And when they get it the first thing they do is work on figuring out how to exploit the system instead of play within it.

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Are they playing within the system or exploiting? The devs put pool c as the reward for tf's. Pool c contains some really nice recipes. Did they really think that people wouldnt go towards the nice(possibly) rewards? There are more tf's being run than ever before. Why is this a problem? Was this tactic harming anything? Dont tell me that it hurts the market, lack of availability hurts my characters abilities, the use of which is more the point of the game than silly market manipulation. It is easy to use the "Joe Mccarthy" method and call it an exploit. "i have a list of known exploiters on freedom server!!". But was it harming the game. be honest. At some point you have to ask is the cure worse than the disease.

Teaming is important. Pvp is balanced for teams. The devs should set it so you cannot enter a pvp zone unless you are on a team of at least 4 and you are debuffed until it is a team of 8. If at any time your team drops below 4, you should be kicked from the zone. Thusly, teaming is enforced and pvp is balanced. Ending the exploit of unbalancing pvp by solo'ing.

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I watched Taxibot Belle run a Positron task force just yesterday. It took just under five hours, and everyone seemed to enjoy it just fine.

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no more groups of 3-4 casual players...

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*sigh...* Task Forces are not "casual" activities. Read the manual for a description of what they're supposed to be.

Or in tl;dr metaphor-speak: If you're having trouble finishing task forces as they were originally designed to work, look for better teammates. Don't ask for exploits to be reintroduced to the game.

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Thats 1. I guess that shows us.



Too small a sample size to be valid.

Now im humming the loveboat song.....Ill be on the Leto deck playing shuffleboard!!

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I'm not going to assume that at all. Since those requests for tf changes were requested a long time ago.

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Huh?

We already know that TF changes are in the works. Thats a Red Name stated fact.

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So is a fix for COP.

wanna buy a bridge??

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The rewards of a TF, the length of various TFs, and the team size requirements of those TFs should all be addressed elsewhere.

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Absolutely not!

They are tied so closely to this change that to put this change in place without fixing these issues means that this fix is broken.

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You mean like sending I11 live with Purples Set Bonuses not working when exemping & not being fixed for 3 months later.... you mean like sending I11 live with the End Mod Sets not working & not being fixed for 3 months later...

etc

etc

etc

etc

etc


This is the nature of the industry. Expect it

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This problem is much larger. And that attitude is just poor quality control. No new content should have been released without atleast some of the nagging problems being addressed. Ive been on most of the weekend and the number of TF's has dropped considerably. RWZ is a ghost town. These are the kind of issues that can break a game community. If enough people get disgusted with seeing nerfs now and fizes "soon" start trying other games, we could see a drastice change in player base. I like this game too much to want to see that happen. A dev posting that a revamp of TF's is beguinning would address a lot of this. But that seems to be too dificult for our dev team.

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Time to address the original post, I think.

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Such missions have always been intended to be group activities, hence the reason for the minimum group size requirement to start them.

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There are many ways to incentivise group activity. The above is a negative way. 'You cannot do this unless you have a group of at least size X.' A positive way would be 'If you have a group of at least size X, the rewards are better' or 'This challenge is so hard that you ought to bring a group of at least size X to deal with it.'


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First you state that the following is the result of this change & its negative:

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You cannot do this unless you have a group of at least size X.

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Um Huh?

Thats not at all what this change says or does!!! Nowhere does it state that if you start a TF that requires 8 members to start that if someone should quit and you are left with 7 members, that the resulting challenge is uncompletable. It simply does not state that nor is it implied. Will the TF be more challenging, absolutely. But has the TF become uncompleteable. Nope, it sure hasnt. Now granted if the numbers of the team drop to 4 on a TF designed for 8, then yes it may become too much of a challenge. However, as Lighthouse tried to point out, this is why its a TEAM ACTIVITY. You shouldnt approach a TF which requires 8 members (as noted by the NPC who gives the TF) lightly. Attempting to complete that TF with a PUG of ppl you dont know is already asking for trouble. Luckily, the # of TFs which require an 8 man team to start is rather small and I suspect that it is already being addressed internally.



Secondly, you state that they should have worded it in a positive manor such as

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'If you have a group of at least size X, the rewards are better

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This is simply NOT true. The TF completion bonuses are not greater if a smaller team completes the task. Now if you are talking about larger spawns = more infl.... um isnt that what ppl Padding mishs was already doing?!? This changes nothing.


Then you state this option:

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This challenge is so hard that you ought to bring a group of at least size X to deal with it.'

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Change that 'OUGHT TO' to 'MUST' & you have essentially what the NPCS already tell you when you agree to form a TF. I repeat, this changes nothing.

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No where in the text at the beguinning of a tf does it say that the tf will spawn at max level. this change needs to be accompanied by a resumption of the spawns being in accordance with player levels

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IF they really want to fix farming, they'll make it so you can't reset missions.

I'm not saying that would be popular, mind you...

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and probably result in a loss of a significant number of accounts. Which will look real bad to ncsoft and the current devs future.

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Wow, with so much animosity & angst towards the Devs & their decisions... why do you still pay to play?

Perhaps because you are over exaggerating the severity of this & other changes?!?

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Now you are being stupid. Read the post I was replying to.
Fact: many farmers have multiple accounts.
Fact: every day we hear complaints that there are multiple farmers "bothering "people.
Fact: piss these people off too much, they will leave.

I said signfiicant, not majority. but it doesnt have to be majority to affect the bottom line. Companies like ncsoft dont like affected bottom lines. It isnt an issue of animosity, just reality of business. If you piss off your customers and run them off, they no longer provide you with money. Look at SW Galaxy.

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I'm afraid that I'm going to have to agree with everything said here. I love this game and the devs, but... I don't like getting punished for what a minority of the game is doing.

My daughter joined a Synapse TF group when asked, and apparently it was a PuG. They started with five around 4 PM. By 9 PM, they hadn't even gotten halfway. I insisted on my daughter logging off as it was getting too late and she had been attached to the computer for 5 hours give or take without having even gotten her homework started.

The group disbanded with an agreement to meet up at 5 pm the next day to finish.

Sounds good. Except... Only two of the group even showed up. ...
I seriously hope you reconsider the changes that just gave a huge slap in the face to PuG TF's that have to deal with team attrition outside their control.

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If you read the thread before replying to it, you would have read how TFs were originally meant to be time consuming, multiple play session events that were meant not for PuGs, but for groups of players who knew each other in real life or formed a stable Super Group.

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Is there any documentation from the devs that this was the intent? People claim this but they are not devs. Is there a dev quote on this?

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IF they really want to fix farming, they'll make it so you can't reset missions.

I'm not saying that would be popular, mind you...

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and probably result in a loss of a significant number of accounts. Which will look real bad to ncsoft and the current devs future.

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Why did it take them two days to "find" the patch notes or to comment?

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Office chaos. LH clearly wasn't in the loop, as his now-deleted comments about it being a bug reveal.

Now, is anyone actually going to answer my question? If you're going to make conspiracy theories, then the person(s) doing the conspiring have to have something to gain by it.

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They may have, w just dont know it. its eithe conspiracy or incompetance, you decide.

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Wow, so they alter the game to work as they intended, and everyone complains?

People, we're starting to sound like the WoW forums here. :/

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They cant make the game work as intended. Otherwise they would fix gauntlet, cop, toggle bug, the aura bug, placate and the list goes on and on. The game is intended to be fun. Some parts are not. Obviously not working as intended.

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Fix the god damn tech bug in the RSF (and every elevator/door in the game)

Give villains a katie equivalent, so that they can get recipes in half an hour like the heroes.

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I keep hearing that villains are doing cap in 20 min. that not good enough?

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not anymore...can still do it quick but not like that. and the 20 mins is probably just for the first part...w/ last mission it is more around 30 mins but you cannot do that with a team.

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Thats quicker than katie and you dont fight 10 av's. What do you want them to do, copy cap and give it to heroes and giv kati to vills? 1 30 min df not good enough? People seem to have this fixation on katie. I mean she is hot, but give her a break.

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Sorry, but I've done cap a few times and I've done KHTF a lot... results?

Best time on KHTF = 19 min WITH A FULL TEAM OF 8
Best time on CAP = 27 min SOFT LOADED for one

Mary and her squad are cake when you have 6 blasters rotating their nukes on the spawns. That was the best KHTF I did. Other's averaged around 30 min with 8 man teams.

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you still can only do 1 every 3 hours.

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Fix the god damn tech bug in the RSF (and every elevator/door in the game)

Give villains a katie equivalent, so that they can get recipes in half an hour like the heroes.

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I keep hearing that villains are doing cap in 20 min. that not good enough?

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not anymore...can still do it quick but not like that. and the 20 mins is probably just for the first part...w/ last mission it is more around 30 mins but you cannot do that with a team.

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Thats quicker than katie and you dont fight 10 av's. What do you want them to do, copy cap and give it to heroes and giv kati to vills? 1 30 min df not good enough? People seem to have this fixation on katie. I mean she is hot, but give her a break.

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We know that finding out about this change after the patch is already live is not the ideal way to go about it. It was never our intent to “hide” or “stealth” this change out, it was simply lost in the volume of other changes spanning many months.


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This part I am not buying even for a second. It has happened way too much since the begining of the game, [...] a pretty huge change that we should have known about [...]there is absolutely no excuse that something this big gets missed [...] You guys need to do better because this is inexcuseable [...]

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Whoa. Someone needs to take a stress pill and/or switch to decaf...

Sure, it's unfortunate that a somewhat (but not very) important detail was left out of the initial patch notes, but the problem was rectified within days. What's the problem?

Seems like some people are just plain looking for something to complain about. Take a deep breath. Relax. Walk around the block. Come back, and enjoy the game.

-Bux

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The problem is, there was no testing done. It pops on live and the players are told its a bug. Then that message disappears and lo and behold, it is working as intended. Their bug mutated and became a fix. They dont have a clue if it is working properly. We have to do their quality control because it was a big secret. It was, otherwise we would have known to go to test to try it out. They didnt overlook nerfing content hat has been in the game since the beginning.It doesnt have to be a conspiracy. It can be a bad choice by posi, who we all know is infallible.

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Fix the god damn tech bug in the RSF (and every elevator/door in the game)

Give villains a katie equivalent, so that they can get recipes in half an hour like the heroes.

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I keep hearing that villains are doing cap in 20 min. that not good enough?

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The farming potential isn't really the main point of contention in the change -- for me, anyway.

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Good, thought I was going to have to argue counter-point again.


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My concern, as others have also pointed out, is that TFs and SFs that have higher minimum player requirements are going to be that much harder to complete with pick-up groups because the missions will no longer adjust to the attrition that might happen.

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I would be amazed if changes to the TFs werent already in the pipeline (as I noted earlier it could be as early as I12). Yes many of them need a rehash & some need their team size requirements altered. I cant for one minute believe that the devs would make this change without knowing that a few adjustments would have to be made "Soon".

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They have had what, 4 years to fix posi? and how many other bugs out there will never be fixed because they dont benefit players? I will believe they are fixing TF's when I see it. Have they fixed gauntlet yet? again?

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meh, Katie can still be done in 20-25 mins.

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and I can add to my collection of crap of the hunter

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What happens when you begin with the bare minimum and then several team mates need to quit?

This change prevents casual players from organzing Task forces and strike forces, especially Villainside where subscriptions are dwindling and reducing the player pool already.

The late explanation is superficial and hardly persuasive. Villainside Cap Au Diable SF was farmed because the redside market is anemic compared to the blueside market. This change will only increase this large gap. Clearly NCSoft is making changes to keep the game interesting by preventing easy recipes, but what will you do when the market has so few?

I'm tempted to think that NCSoft is attemtping to manage serversize by making CoV uninhabitable.

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QFT

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Quoted for Extreme Hyberbolic Ignorance


Most of the people I see complaining here are the ones that used soft loading to then run Multi Cap SFs.

This is just like the Katie nerf it just adds about 10 more minutes onto the SF run.

You all need to change your pampers.



~MR

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If this was a change JUST to the Cap SF, then fine. This change is GLOBAL to ALL TF's. HUGE difference.

Plus it flies completely in the face of the devs "risk vs reward" mantra. (If you have a 6 person TF, and lose 3, your risk is now greater than your reward)

It also severely penalizes PUG's, and the fact that some TF's were DESIGNED to be multiple-session events.

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if you have a 6 man tf and you finish with 3 people, each person should get the rewards dictated by the spawns..2 recipes each.

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The reason it's bad in the limit is that they become the ones least affected by this change. The logic goes: slower/longer TF for more folks = higher prices for desirable pool C drops = more RMT business since they can still make large amounts of inf.

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Huh?

Ppl are saying that RMTers are going to exploit this TF change... No... simply No. They will not be using this feature. The Bosses spawned will discourage them. The Infl / Hour ratio will not work out in their favor.

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If fewer people run he tf's, there will be fewer dops. Fewer drops = higher prices. Higher prices encourages people to buy inf. RMT's win.

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Two accounts. Fire/Kin Controller (or possibly a Fire/Ice Tank) doing the damage, an Empath buffbot on Follow providing constant Clear Mind or Fortitude.

For a solo squishy? Ya not so good. For someone with Mez protection with a buffer providing even more? Not that big a deal.

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So now it takes 2 ppl to farm (thats 2 paid for accounts as far as NCSoft is concerned)...

How is this a bad thing? Especially since I wont get any more "will you anchor" requests

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Sure you will. anywhere in pi. hey didnt eliminate old types of farming, just added new ones.

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2. Reduce the minimum number of players required for a TF or SF to a maximum of six. Only exception: STF and LRSF, since they are meant to be endgame challenges and "hardcore".


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Just to quickly touch on this (since I'm on the Training Room with the Wedding Event, but reading here too) - most Task Forces and Strike Forces have a requirement of 4. I was looking over documentation on the list of SF/TF.

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BS, LH.

let's walk through this together.

Posi: 3.
Synapse: 4.
Sis: 5.
Cit: 6.
Manti: 7.
Numina: 4.
Q: 8.
Sara: 8.
Augustine: 8.
Faathim: 8.
STF: 8.
LRSF: 8.
Cap, mantis, renault, mistral: all 4.
LGTF: 8.

The average is higher than 4.

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Just went to red tomax and looked em up. The average for all hero side is 6.

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Solo farming has just become SO much easier! Thank you!


EDIT: And sure it was "left out of the patch notes" earlier today you posted it was a bug. You guys at NCsoft sure are disorganized.


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They find time for this but cant clean up the mess that is older tf's..And after the discussion about stealth nerfs the last couple of days, they suddenly discover yet another nerf they "forgot"?

edit: maybe they can fix tf's to actually spawn at the teams level now. Instead of just setting them at max level and not giving a damn about it.

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I double checked both my login to the forums and NCSoft. They have the correct email address. I double checked both my PC and My laptop, no sign of the emails. The last emails I received where the thanks for purchasing wedding pack, and the upgrade email. I didn't receive a notice about double xp or the wedding/spring fling. I had a conversation with a long time vet, wednesday morning about the wedding edition. They new nothing about didn't get an email either. So its not just me.

Soph

Woot-1st time a red named quoted me.....I think 8P

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LH, I am a long-time vet and my experiences match what is being described above. I don't think I've received an email other than purchase/upgrade confirmations for about a year.

The issue is not client-side. There is something wrong with your bulk email distribution. Have your people check it and don't just assume that the problem is our fault.

I find myself incredulous at the fact that I'm arguing for getting bulk mail, lol.

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Your email service might have them grey listed. When they send an email your service would bounce it back. They have x amount of time to retry, which would be accepted and they would be added to the list of "good" sites. Many bulk email systems(and spammers) dont retry after the first attempt. They would never be allowed on the "good" list. When you purchase an add on, it likely is acknowledged by a different service.

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um, I was just on test server, and I'd say there's over 100 people at the usher pushing and shoving each other for the wedding event that hasn't even started yet. There's gonna be some mighty ticked off heroes...

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So only the first 100 get VD?????

Call an empath!!!!!1!!111