The_Shryke

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not fine for trying to retain your installed base.

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I think some people have taken this to an unfortunate extreme.

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ED and I5 haven't created a ghost town out of City of Heroes.

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Yet. City of Villains caused (is still causing) a lot of people to stick around despite the changes - first for the beta after I5, and now for the live game after ED. Once the newness of CoV wears off, that's when you'll really see what effect ED and I5 had.

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I love this. So CoH doesn't die off just to prove that you were right about I5 and ED, the way it should have, so you could show us all that you were right. Maybe you were wrong then.

Oh no! I wasn't wrong! CoV masked the effect and it will still happen.

So we have to wait months to see that you were right. By then though the game will have changed some more, and you'll forget about I5 and ED and move onto the next changes, complaining about those and how they will wreck the game.

And the whole time you'll be pissed off.

I mean "you" collectively, btw, not any particular you.

Nice way to live, dude.

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If I may, what is your presumably "higher standard" in gameplay changes and balance decisions? I'm interested to know...

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The move provided by all of these "balance changes" has had one prevailing effect. To remove consequences from the choices players make. To make the difference between what one player slots and another slots ineffectual. To make the choice of chosing one power over another irrelevant.

Balance is one thing, but trying to ensure the Harry the Chimp over there who picks powers and enhancements at random is just as effective as EvilGeko who takes the time and effort to think about and plan his build is not only irrational but idiotic.

Did the top end of builds need to be tuned down? Sure did, there was (and still are) some things capable in this game that are so far over the top as to be ridiculous. But hammering everyone down to the point that my choices as a player have such an insignificant effect as to be pointless makes for an even more boring game.

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Water under the bridge, lad. Get over it. Move on. If you can't find a way to enjoy the changes, perhaps it is time for you to take a break from this game and try another.

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I would so hate to see Statesman and the other developers so wearied by what happens here that they lose their creativity and start worrying about catering to the lowest common denominator and thinking in terms of PR and press release mentality.


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So it's not okay to cater to the lowest common denominator when it comes to PR but it is okay to cater to the lowest common denominator when it comes to gameplay changes and balance decisions? Seems a bit backwards to me, but hey whatever floats your boat.

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By catering to the lowest common denominator I did not mean specific design decisions made in this game. I meant being so concerned about minimizing the reactions to changes that they stop being bold and creative in their development of the game.

I mean that at design meetings, it would be awful if they think "yeah but think how people would scream" every time they had a creative idea or a new way of taking the game, rather than letting the creativity flow like it obviously used to, in order for them to have come up with the ideas they've come up with.

It would be sad if they let the people who hate change determine the design decisions that are made.

Some people hold grudges, is all. Some people can't adapt to change. Some people need things to be a certain way or they're not happy -- and since things are never really that well, happiness eludes them.

Me: I have seen some sense in the things that have been done (unlike in other games sometimes) and I have been enjoying rediscovering the game. Ever since the Rikti invasion at the end of beta, I have thought this dev team is really creative and imaginative in the way they do things.

I love the way they implemented pvp, for example. Having played Lineage and EQ I had a sense of the challenges they faced, and I thought they came up with a really creative solution, even though I myself fear pvp.

Until people started screaming about the accuracy adjustment to SS and SJ a few months ago, these boards were the best boards in any game, and the players had the highest morale and best sense of humor anywhere. When I occasionally went and played other games, like WoW, I would come back here and admire the ambience.

To me it is sad that these forums have changed so much. I really hate it that people have become so rude and uncivil and that there's an element of people ragging on the devs and Statesman in particular and holding grudges and calling him a liar and overanalyzing every word he says and then complaining that he doesn't say enough.

It's really sad. I am so happy that people like Skunkwerks and Laser Jesus and Friggin Taser and Miss Kitty and others are here leavening the mood.

But it does wear on the spirit. I would so hate to see Statesman and the other developers so wearied by what happens here that they lose their creativity and start worrying about catering to the lowest common denominator and thinking in terms of PR and press release mentality.

Problem is that obviously they DO care and read these forums. I know how much it hurts to see people dissecting your words and interpreting what you say and do so it fits in with some preformed idea they have of you that shows you are wrong and they are right.

Oh yeah so now I will be dismissed as a fanboi and forum carebear. But I am not writing this to convince the ones who would do that, because they're beyond help and they aren't actually reading this sentence even. I am writing because I know there are others like me who are heartened when they read encouraging words.

Well every game get its share of malcontents who want the game to fail because the dev's didn't do what they thought should be done. You get these big emotional fights on the forums and then people who don't get their way hanging around waiting to be proved right and hoping the game will fail.

But it isn't happening. okay? And I am off to play the game...

Yeah you're right Catwhoorg. I'm kinda sorry I stuck my nose in too : (

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So -- let's discuss the actual numbers here, rather than snapping at Stateman's heels.


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Sure. Let's first make note of the fact that the # Concurrent Users stat, the one Statesman was nice enough to mention, is the ONLY one that is on the rise, and very well could have a statistical anomoly.

Aside from that we have a Drop in daily access and a Drop in Monthly Access. Hmmm....wonder why Statesman picked the Concurrent Number Stat to throw out at us?

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Well, you really need to look at data TRENDS. Here's the data graphed out. To me it looks pretty flat, with a dip last December.

Yeah see -- SIR BRUCE ISN'T KEEPING HIS WEBSITE UP SINCE JUNE

And NCSOFT IS JUST ABOUT THE ONLY COMPANY THAT RELEASES ACTUAL NUMBERS LIKE THESE

From the NC Soft Site

User Statistics
Operating Matrix (City of Heroes)
U.S & Europe As of September. 2005

Highest concurrent users
June 04 31,085
Sept 04 26,870
Dec 04 15,741
Mar 05 21,283
June 05 20,911
Sept 05 22,340

Daily access
June 04 69,011
Sept 04 68,073
Dec 04 45,318
Mar 05 56,366
June 05 59,969
Sept 05 59,133

Monthly access
June 04 169,925
Sept 04 163,053
Dec 04 124,435
Mar 05 140,481
June 05 162,922
Sept 05 150,068

So -- let's discuss the actual numbers here, rather than snapping at Stateman's heels.

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I DO find it Interesting that Statesman always refers to MMORPGchart.com's numbers, but never the actual numbers posted by NCSoft itself

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He does?? Where?

BTW: I reiterate: Sir Bruce isn't keeping his site up to date any longer:
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October 20, 2005
Yes, I am alive. I’ve been completely out of action for the past few months, so I’m afraid I’ve been unable to update my research, or keep previous commitments, or answer all of my email enquiries. I’m trying to get caught up this weekend, however, so apologies all around and I hope to have a new update out soon.


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Also - another comment on discounted games - currently, City of Heroes is $29.99. Certain stores can run sales - like Lineage 2 is free with a Guild Wars purchase at a local chain.

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Uh... Not at the largest retailer in the world, Wal-Mart... They have been selling CoH for $19.96 for many months now.

I dont really care much about this conversation, actually agree with Statesman on this, but to say that CoH retails at $29.99 and blatantly ignore Wal-Mart, is well... You be the judge.

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And not only that, but WoW and Guild Wars -still- sell for $49.99.

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Hm Statesman doesn't shop at Walmart. They must be paying him too much. Maybe he should take a pay cut so our subscription rates could go down. <= that was just a pre-emptive crabby comment.

Actually I am glad to think Statesman doesn't shop at Walmart and that he doesn't make the rounds of retailers keeping records of how much CoH is selling for. No doubt he was telling us the manufacturer's recommended retail price.

This just shows how his words get twisted whenever he says anything in the forums -- hence his comment "I'm feeling masochistic today."

I remember Statesman being a bit squeamish about having to run free trials anyhow.

Actually, Sir Bruce has a note up on his site explaining why he hasn't been updating ANY numbers (not just CoH) since about June.

Yes, Sir Bruce's stuff is now quite out of date -- not just for this game, but for all MMOs because he has not updated any of that recently.

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October 20, 2005
Yes, I am alive. I’ve been completely out of action for the past few months, so I’m afraid I’ve been unable to update my research, or keep previous commitments, or answer all of my email enquiries. I’m trying to get caught up this weekend, however, so apologies all around and I hope to have a new update out soon.

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I've always played primarily on Virtue, and since I have altitis I spend a lot of time in AP/Hollows/KR/SC and I've been playing since release AND I have not seen a bit difference in populations on Virtue during the last year. There was a drop off during the first 6 months but the population has seemed stable since then.

The server hits yellow every night, as it has been doing for a long time.

I don't know why the OP and perhaps a few others are trying to manufacture a problem here when there really isn't one, as far as I personally can tell.

So to summarize:
1) when people in CoH do global searches, they only get villains in pvp zones and that's a small eprcentage of villains.
2) the world has grown so people are more spread out
3) lots of CoH people are playing CoV right now
4) 2 or 3 servers are double yellow every night at prime time
5) it's still annoying under the Atlas statue, no matter what anyone wants to say otherwise
6) there are usually 3 instances of Mercy Island right now
7) global searches don't show up people who are on hide. I think that could be a sizable percentage in this game because of drive-by invites
8) anyhow: NCsoft is one of the few companies that has ever released actual numbers of subscribers -- though I don't know if they are still doing this.
9) I think some people just want so much to be right in their disagreement with development of this game, that they hope the game will fail and prove them right.
10) maybe that's too cynical.
11) why am I numbering things?

Actually I am surprised at how smoothly the game is running and how bug-free it is after beta.

I guess cramming everyone on a single beta server kinda stress tests everything.

Virtue has a healthy population, and so does erm erm the other one that's usually double yellow at prime time.

The game is all right. Don't fret about it.

I don't envy Statesman at all. He's gotta go out and meet the customers. They're either kissing his butt or asking annoying questions. And there are so many of them, especially at a convention. You don't actually need to say anything, States. Just answer questions by asking "you think that would be a good idea" then all you have to do is listen (sort of) and the time will pass quickly enough without you actually having to answer the questions because people just want to be heard by you. Not that you asked for my advice he he.

Just want to remind everyone of this great utility that we can all use to come up with our own memorable DOOOOOOOOOM posts:

MOOMMMMMMM! Scaryjapan peed in my joke!

Are we there yet?

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My favorite: anything by PuffyShirt. *Snifff* I miss good ole' Puffy. He always put a smile on my face.

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was it a steely smile of death?

sometimes this forum is like going on a long summer vacation with a big and dysfunctional family in a winnebago with broken air-conditioning.

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Joking apart, this is a really, really good idea.

It would give so much more personality and life to the signature heroes to have them do this. They don't even have to get off their pedestals. A simple ranged attack would do.


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I totally agree -- and I like the x-ray eyes idea. They just turn and this unbelievably powerful bolt of pure....power comes out and vaporizes the annoying bad guys.

I'm also not complaining here because I love this game. I'm not bored with missions at all. I just think it would be cool to see some kinds that aren't in game right now, like:

circle of thorns in spooky old mansion, clockwork terrorizing apartment house or airport terminal, vahzlok terrorizing shopping mall, vahzlok terrorizing hospital, Tsoo terrorizing Walmart or school, etc.

This would mean new settings besides office, cave, sewer, boat and warehouse. You'd have:

rambling old mansion
apartment house
hospital
school
shopping mall
Walmart-type place
airport
courthouse
theater
restaurant
sanitarium
prison
YMCA
etc.


But I am sure these kinds of things have been suggested at least a billion times already : )

Maybe in Issue 6?