Starfox_NA

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one indirectly claims it does the same thing from level 4 to 50

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Um, that was Rad I was refering to.

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I was refering to Poobah as the one-trick-pony proponent. Magicj, you have been a consistent (and lonely) proponent of the idea that FF is a versatile set.

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All other primaries have more of a "gradual scale" to their "usefulness/easiness to learn".

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You could put it that way. I'd say that withs sets like Rad, you're doing the same thing at level 50 that you were doing at level 5. It's BORING.

I perfectly understand that many folks don't want to spend time learning skills in a computer game. They just want to mash buttons, collect the badge, and log off. Nothing wrong with that. Those folks can choose almost any set in the game to play. For folks who enjoy a bit more of a challenge, there's not too many sets out there that offer that.

As to FF being "all peanut butter inside", it's not. The set is what you make of it. Because it's not just mindless button mashing you have the chance for your skill and creativity to affect what the powers do.

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This is beautiful from a didactic perspective. Your two posts make exactly opposite claims about FF - one indirectly claims it does the same thing from level 4 to 50, the other cites it as one of the FEW powersets that actually develop new tools over level.

This is why I love this game - the same powerset can be seen/played in such drastically different ways by different players.

Of course, magicj seems pretty alone in his view here. Most of us indeed think FF is a one-trick pony that does the same thing from lvl 4 to 50. I met a FF defender yesterday that had specced out his buff bubbles. It was just too boring to use them. I advised him to reroll as a blaster, his objection was that blasters do not get Dark Blast. A perfectly viable point of view, but it still made his toon completely worthless to the team (he wasn't nearly as good at using FF as magicj claims to be).

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If you added a resist debuff to force bolt, damage to repulsion field and defense debuff to force bubble then you have differentiated them quite a bit while still keeping them similar enough (thats just an example of how you could do it) and the core use of the powers unchanged.

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All these powers would then pull more aggro, which would be a disasterin the case of Force Bubble.

Quoting magicj for truth and as an example. Emphasis mine:

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I understand your concern with this (FF defenders being squishy). It makes perfect sense. I know you don't want hear this, but compare it to the situation Controllers and Masterminds have:

*/FF Master Mind + Scorpion Shield
+DEF(S/L) 32.8%
+DEF(Energy) 25.7%
+DEF(Fire, Cold, Neg Energy, Ranged, Melee, AoE, Psionic) 11.7%
+RES(Toxic) 17.5%

*/FF Controller + Frozen Armor
+DEF(S/L) 32.8%
+DEF(Energy, Neg Energy, Fire, Cold, Melee, Ranged, AoE, Psionic) 11.7%
+RES(Fire) 10%
+Res(Cold) 30%

Ice Tank With All Shields
+DEF (S/L, Energy, Neg Energy) 27.5%
+DEF (Fire, Cold) 1%
+RES (Fire) 32%
+RES (Cold) 90%

FF Masterminds and Controllers are _already_ competative with Ice Tankers in terms of Defense. For the most common damage type, S/L, they are actually _better_ than Ice Tankers. They are also better at Fire, Cold, Psionic, Ranged, Melee, and AoE Defense.

You can't buff FF [self] Defense without risking throwing the relationship between Tankers, Controllers, and Masterminds totally out of wack. It's highly unlikely that you'll be able to buff Defender FF Defenses without an outcry from the other FF ATs.

The reason an FF Defender can't match these number is not because of FF. Defenders get more Defense from FF than any other AT. The reason is because Defenders Epics have no shield that provides +DEF. The problem isn't FF, the problem is the design of Defenders.


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This is an interesting observation, and indeed something of a problem, but less than you might think.

At first look this is a glaring example of how FF works better as a secondary than as a primary, which has been a general Defender complaint since day one. What could be done is to add an ice shield to the defender epics. I suppose that might happen at about the same time villain epics get revised. Which might happen, but not soon.

But lets compare to Defender figures using available group powers; Weave and/or Maneuvers.

Defender: Dispersion Bubble + Weave 24% to all
Defender: Dispersion Bubble + Maneuvers 16% to all
Defender: Dispersion Bubble + Weave + Maneuvers 29% to all


These figures are not bad at all. Add in a few percent form Hover and Combat Jumping, and you are very well protected indeed. In the case of Maneuvers it also helps your team. Sure, Controllers and Masterminds can also take these powers, but they get lesser values out of them. I'd go so far as to say that Maneuvers is a 10th power in the Defender version of FF.

But much more can be done if you use positional defense, mainly ranged defense, and ignore typed defense. Using Maneuvers and IO set bonuses, but NO purple sets related to defense, I can get my ranged defense to 40% on a defender. Area Defense really is no big thing, and a FF defender can stay out of melee pretty handily. Using Weave I can get a ranged defense of 47%, which is beyond the soft defense cap. Controllers and Masterminds can't benefit nearly as much from this tactic, as they use typed defense.

The FF defender being squishy is a problem, yes, but it is not a problem that cannot be overcome, and I doubt the Devs will listen to complaints along these lines. After all, all buff Defenders become more squishy than the rest of their team. Changing this would be to change the AT.

As a final note, the FF Mastermind is actually not the Mastermind with th best defense; that honor goes to the Traps Mastermind using Force Field Drone.

More quotes from Ex Libris in the Gather Around the Campfire" PvP Thread (but IMO applicable to any community effort to effect change)

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Here is my feedback... narrow down to your three top priorities and tell us exactly how you would like to see them designed for PvP, what elements to currently remove as they impede the game, and give suggestions on what things like "more maps" means. Give us examples of maps that already exists, or of things you think would be cool to see and a picture is worth a thousand words.

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*I am using the example of arena maps in the above suggestion.*

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Giving us your bug list is great, including steps to reproduce is even better. Giving us a huge list to pull out design changes from is a lot more difficult because we run the risk of releasing something you all don't like. If we are clear about what your "Magic Bullet" is for the collective group, we can work towards meeting that need.

Also keeping expectations realistic is helpful. Handing over a huge list and saying "when you fix this then we will be happy," that's tough especially in MMO development, because fixing one thing can often break something else. Design and implementation take time, and with us bringing on new team members a lot of effort is going to be placed on training new people on our engine and on how to use our tools.

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The way I read this is; Achieve agreement on a 3-point bullet list, or be ignored.

So, if this thread could move back to Defender issues with FF - which requires that we accept (and to a point ignore; this is about magicj) that there are other points of view, then we could perhaps get something done here.

* Steps back from thread again

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perhaps the brainstorming period is over, and it is time to consolidate?

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*has a strange coughing fit, points to sig*

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As you can no longer edit this post, you cannot keep it current. We have had at least 3 players make their own complete versions of FF, with several new ideas, since you posted this summary. In other words, we can consolidate again. It would be much easier to do this time around as you already summed up the stuff before that post pretty neatly.

But these last pages convinced me there might not be a point. Too many people don't want to build, they just want to flash their egos and push their personal agenda - or accuse others of doing so. Looks like we cannot acheive any kind of consensus, and that means we get drivel changes.

Like the one Castle is giving us now; a damage increase to Repulsion Bomb. No archetype that has FF does damage anyway, the power has a 30 second recharge and a 3 second animation. Do do worthy sustained damage, it would need a brawl index around seven - or damage scale 2.5. That is simply not going to happen. And even if it did, it would only be a trap for the unwary - radial knockback is not worth what a defender can do with this damage. It would be similar to the damage a blaster does with Explosive Blast, and that is one of the worst powers in the game IMO because of the scatter.

The good news is that this really doesn't really matter to me, as Repulsion Bomb was useless before and remains useless. The bad news is that some players might now take it and use it and reduce their contribution to teams.

This thread looks like it is descending into oblivion. Aw well, Force Field still has some good powers as-is, so I guess it doesn't matter.

ExLibris in a PvP discussion. Emphasis mine.

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We also have a lot of niche groups asking for some special attention, and some of those communities have really proven that they can work well together to be able to prioritize what they, as a community would like to see happen. Removing the guesswork from our end is invaluable and that is one reason that it is crucial that you all as a community can work out your differences.

Many of those groups are in the same boat as you are in that they haven't had specific changes for their game style in a long time.

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While the thread has no direct bearing on us (it is on smack talk in PvP), it shows how the devs and mods think; if a group can get its act together and unify around what they want, they can actually get something done. Posting this to show how important it is that we try to get some consensus around here.

This thread has been quiet for a time; perhaps the brainstorming period is over, and it is time to consolidate?

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You can piss off too Dr. Phil.

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What did I do?

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Sorry PK, that was directed at Starfox. Due to both his statement that Magicj has done nothing wrong by intentionally trying to stop this discussion and defending the statement that some of these ideas are "terrible".

The arrogance of telling people that, and also telling us that we should focus the discussion according to how Starfox thinks it should be presented to the devs annoyed me. The more ideas the better I say!

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I am happy you could vent. I'll send my psychiatrist bill of $50,000 shortly...

Honestly, I have never seen Dr Phil (though I have heqard the discussion). I live in Sweden, and we have our own junk shows.

BurningChick, you suggest changing 3 powers (or at least hold them out for inspection), and I completely agree. I think that's an excellent way to go about it, and basically what I meant all along when I said 1-3 powers.

First find powers with problems. Then suggest solutions. Then condense the suggested solutions into something we can agree on.

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As to many of the suggestions being terrible, well... they are. Sorry, but it's the truth. Calling me names doesn't make them any better.

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Please, everyone join me in adding Magicj to our ignore lists so we can continue this discussion without her asinine input.

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Magicj isn't doing anything wrong, really. We all have opinions. She(?) is entitled to hers(?). But just as she(?) says, the difference in opinion between her and most of us has been EXTREMELY well documented by now - lets move on.

If you have to ignore someone in order not to rise to the bait, by all means do so. But personally I have learned stuff from magicj's opinions and presentations (deftly ignoring the gender question by using the name here), so I'll continue to read - but perhaps not reply to - what she(?) has to say.

And yes, some suggestions are indeed terrible. To me, at least. But I think we should brainstorm a bit more, come up with some more terrible ideas, before we enter a consolidation phase and try to boil all these wild-grown ideas down to a few reasonable suggestions.

What we should present to the devs in the end is a list of 1-3 suggested power changes that we have some sort of consensus on. Some of these changes can be sweeping (like the general recharge reduction TA got). But presenting the devs with a list of 5-6 suggested changes/variants for every power will have less impact.

So, now, lets brainstorm some more, then as the ideas seem to dry up lets make a consolidated list, compare, and pick some change options we can agree on.

Can we stop replying to Magicj's posts already? This is not moving the debate anywhere.

I think Mace tankers should get a hand bag to use as a weapon. My character concept is "Little of lady" - I am one of the ladies wrestling over their handbags with Freak Tanks in Brickstown. The idea is that if I can hand-bag-wrestle tanks to a standstill in Brickstown, imagine what I could do in Atlas Park!

This is really a separate topic, but here goes:

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I know the general consensus (probably pulled from a developer comment somewhere) is that if you increase the duration of Force Field bubbles, you have to decrease something else. However, I think that there's simply a user-friendliness problem in Force Field (and other powers such as Speed Boost) in that you have to continually re-apply your Force Bubbles.

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Many, many powers in CoX are "balanced by annoyance". If used to full extent, they are great. To prevent this, they have been made so awkward to use that they become almost useless. Actually, Force Field gets away pretty well here, with just to timed buffs, both on the same, long, duration.

Consider Empathy, with two such buffs, Clear Mind on a 90 second duration and with a horribly long animation, Fortitude with a 2 minute duration and a horribly long recharge. Fully using Fortitude makes you a slave to the recharge timer - the main reason I deleted my level 37 Empathy Defender.

Or consider Kinetics. Increase Density lasts 60(!!!) seconds, and has both animation and recharge long enough to make it hard to put on everyone. Speed Boost lasts 90 or 120 seconds (I'm not sure of the exact duration).

I hate this, and it makes playing ether of these sets horrible. I think the devs should take a page from the upcoming Age of Conan MoG; there, buffs will last 30 minutes or so, but will cease almost immediately if you are not teamed with the buffer. If we apply that, and also remove buffs when zoning, that would be an IMMENSE quality of life change.

Of course some powers would have to be re-tought, such as the self-stacking of Clarity, Thraw, and Clear Mind - which would then affect the magnitude of some extreme mez users like Ghost Widow. But such changes would be good changes in and of themselves, so I see no problem with this.

An idea I just had for Force Bolt: add an Immobilize (with no -knockback effect, obviously) against AVs/EBs only. Immobilize is the only effect that commonly affects them, and Defenders are short on it; this would add something special to Force Field against these opponents.

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As to changes to Blasters and Corruptors, I never suggested that [their powers be changed]. If there's no problem, no fix is needed. Blasters should absolutely have 100% Endurance drain. Corruptors I've not played, so I don't feel comfortable giving a number for them. But because they do more damage than Defenders, I'll just take a guess that their Endurance drain should be somewhere between 95% and 100%.

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The problem here is the same as with the idea to change FF for Defenders only. Someone suggested adding a slow to Force Bubble to the Defender version only. This is VERY unlikely to happen; the devs only do this when a power is obviously out of sync with what the AT does. But who knows, perhaps the End loss is something that can be affected by an AT-specific variable. I doubt it tough.

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I'm not going to trudge through this whole thing, but one thing that would actually excite me in Forcefield is if the ST Phase also did damage. The idea of crushing someone with a forcefield seems pretty intuitive to me - but alas, the defender cannae do such a thing.

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Oh, it could do damage, but any damage it does would be insignificant next to the regeneration of a boss/AV. A -Regen effect would be nice tough; the team can use the time to recover, the caged AV cannot. Perhaps add in s minor DoT just for style (and to interrupt Rest and the base teleport powers).

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Edit: To use Dark Blast as an example, Night Fall's cone would be changed to match TT's cone and Blackstar would have only an 85% Endurance drain.

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Do you think these changes realistic? Having area shapes not match is a very persistent theme; the only exception is Sonic Blast, but in that case one of them has a knockback. And changing overload attacks (commonly called novas) so they burn 85% endurance would be a very big change to Blasters and Corruptors; less so to Defenders, but any changes would penetratate to all 3 ATS (in some cases to Masterminds/Dominators as well).

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Defender solo damage is a major issue with all Defenders, not just FF, but is really a completely separate issue.

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It's the biggest problem I see with Defenders. One which FF is not only unable to mask, but actually makes worse. So no, the problem with Defenders' secondaries is directly related.

Fixing those problems should be the first step.

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It might be, but this will NEVER happen. Look at Corruptors; basically Defenders operating at 75% of normal for the buff/debuff (some exceptions), They do 75% base damage, a whoopping 10% more than Defenders. Any increase to Defender damage would make us completely outclass Corruptors. So that avenue is closed. Defender secondaries are simply not on the agenda, because there won't be any changes to them. I think reiterating how much better these powers work on Controllers can have no positive result; the only result I can see a Controller nerf. You are welcome to try to suggest changes to defender secondaries, but anything that improves overall damage is just not realistic.

In other words, any modification to Defenders, and FF defender is particular, must be in the primary set - FF.

You made you point that you do not want FF changed. Duly noted. That venue won't work for Defenders as I've explained. Now, please don't rehash this argument again, as its not going to convince any Defenders, and this is a Defender discussion on how to improve FF. For Defenders. With due consideration for how ATs that have it as a secondary use it, of course, but primary > secondary.

Sorry to say, magicj, but I'm back to where PhiloticKnight was several pages ago; if you can't give any positive suggestions that are valid from a Defender perspective, please leave this discussion alone.

Interesting reading. I was always using Snap Shot, so this validates the build I'm already using on my Archery/Ice.

I am also happy to notice that both Ice Patch and Shiver now buff my damage (if not by much).

Magicj, while the video is well-done and the feats impressive, I don't see anything in there that wouldn't work with the changes I proposed. Merging Force Bubble and Repulsion Field would still allow it to do both the aggro-holding and the personal-defense part (especially against the flying Protectors that aren't sensitive to Knockback anyway). And the power Defenders have most gripe with, Repulsion Bomb, wasn't used at all.

Your demonstrate one particular playstyle in the video - herding with what is usually a non-herding archetype. A Defender could do that just as well (or slightly better due to higher defense numbers), but would then be unable to finish those protectors off solo. Defender solo damage is a major issue with all Defenders, not just FF, but is really a completely separate issue.

If I look at how I'd play that encounter with my Mind/Sonic Controller, I'd have pulled those Protectors one by one, and once out in the hall would have crushed them individually. With no area damage capacity, If I accidentally pulled several, I would Confuse (or possibly sleep) all but one, then crush that one. I simply see no point in herding as a solo Mind Controller. Fire Controller or Claws Scrapper, sure, but not as the largely single-target Mind Controller. But that is my playstyle, not yours.

The point with herding as I see it is to gather mobs so that they can be conveniently disposed of using area attacks, and area attacks are best supplied by Blasters. Since the Defender is a team archetype, a Defender on a team could use FF this way if he saw a point in it.

But Force Field is so much more, and could be even more with modifications, especially to Defenders. You are opposing changes that would enable playstyles different from your own, and I can't agree with you there.

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<ul type="square">[*] Force Fields generally works as-is for every AT other than Defenders. This suggests to me that the problem is with Defenders' secondaries, not Force Fields. This general concern is based both on which ATs tend to complain about FF and which don't, and from personal experience playing FF in varous ATs including Defenders.[*] I personally see it likely that any changes other than minor tweaks to existing capabilties will ripple through to ATs other than Defenders. Because FF is working so well for me in other ATs, I personally don't want to see this happen. [/list]
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Read this statement from a Defender perspective, and its pretty insulting. This is how it reads: "My secondary works better than your primary, and I want things to remain that way". And this is what you have been saying all along. This is your opinion, and you are definitely entitled to it, but don't expect everyone on the Defender boards to cheer you. You say "I personally don't want to" (my emphasis), and that makes it ok to say these things; everyone can have a personal opinion. Just don't expect everyone else to agree. In fact, rebukes like those from PhiloticKnight earlier are a more likely response.

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Second, and better idea, make it a targeted-location stationary pet like Disruption Arrow...

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I really really like this idea.


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This is essentially what Bonfire is, except the -Res part.


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True, and y'know that never occurred to me at the time that's it's basically Bonfire without the damage.

Now a lot of people don't like Bonfire, mostly because it doesn't mesh at all with the rest of the Fire Control set, and frankly there are much better control powers for them to take.

But this isn't the case with FF. For us it fits much better. It's a perfect example as to how some powers that are universally reviled aren't necessary bad powers, they're just in the wrong set.

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I mostly used Bonfire from the blaster epic set. As a blaster epic, it rocks.

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Second, and better idea, make it a targeted-location stationary pet like Disruption Arrow...

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I really really like this idea.


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This is essentially what Bonfire is, except the -Res part.

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The other thing I wanted to add was to build off Arcanville's reverese PFF idea for Detention Field. A while back there was alot of talk about having someway to "turtle" a teammate when their health gets really low. Turning Detention Field into a reverse PFF and giving it the ability to work on friends and foes, assuming the code supports that.

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Afraid the code doesn't allow a power to target both friends and enemies.

Moving on to suggestions, this is my list:

PFF, Deflection Shield, Insulation Shield : No changes

Force Bolt
<ul type="square">[*] Add a small knockup as per previous suggestions. Apply the knockup 0.3 seconds after the knockback to avoid having them interfere with one another. This would probably extend the prone time of the force a little, which is good.[/list]
Detention field
The trouble here is not that the power is bad, but that it is annoying to teammates. It is actually very useful as a personal defense or to put particularly troublesome mobs out of action.
<ul type="square">[*] Make it much more visible. Ages ago, before the current change in appearance, there was a suggestion to tint it red. That still seems like a very good idea. Red is an obvious warning color. All variants of the current FF color are likely to be drowned in other FF FX.[*] Increase the immobilize magnitude and add -teleport.[*] Reduce duration and recharge, and allow us to slot it for duration. The current version lasts too long; this way, each FF user gets to decide how long his version should last. (This since making it a time-limited toggle has been shown to be impractical).[/list]
Dispersion Bubble
A very nice power, but annoying in that drawing any aggro is very likely to get you slept at higher levels, thus forcing the force-fielder into a passive play style.
<ul type="square">[*] Replace immobilize resistance with sleep resistance. This might be too powerful, but would be an immense quality of life change. Perhaps apply the sleep resistance only to the FF user tough. Sadly, I think this will never happen, so it’s not really a serious suggestion.[*] Add some defense debuff resistance.[/list]
Repulsion Field
Repulsion Field and Force Bubble are redundant; they do very similar things, only one is too large and one is too small. The solution; merge them, making one power with a size that is in between.
<ul type="square">[*] Make this a power similar to Hurricane (but replace the redundant -Acc with a slow). 25 ft. radius, the slow at 30 ft radius. A set End cost with no end cost per mob. Fast pulses like Hurricane has. This would give the positional control of both the current Repulsion Field and Force Bubble without the drawbacks. It would be close to Hurricane but not identical, but this is no worse than that Repulsion Field currently is a lesser cousin of Repel.[/list]
Repulsion Bomb
The current implementation of this power should go; it is unpopular and lacks any practical use. The animation is horrible for a reactive power and should be replaced with something more like Force Bolt.
<ul type="square">[*] Replace it with a single-target power like a Force Bolt with less knockback, only with 100% chance of a good stun. Trick Arrow and Dark Miasma are defense sets that have a single-target ranged hold (to stack with the hold in Electric Blast), but no defense set has a single-target ranged stun (that would stack with similar powers in archery, sonic blast, and radiation blast). Make Repulsion Bomb into that missing link. This would be a pretty large change and require a new name for the power.[*] Replace it with an AoE or cone variant of Force Bolt, with the same animation as Force Bolt and greater recharge.[*] Replace it with a Bonfire-like knockback placible.[/list]
Force Bubble
Remember the debate about base raids? One of the problem powers in base raids was Force Bubble – it was large enough to dominate large areas of a base, yet unlike Hurricane (that had similar issues) it really couldn’t be changed; Force Bubble has no other effect and any nerf would make it useless. Well, my solution is to axe it, merge it with Repulsion Field and replace it with a completely different power by the same name.

Having merged Repulsion Field and Force Bubble's old functionality into one, we are left with a hole here. A hole that could fill the other glaring fault of the set; lack of offensive buffing. Replace all of the current effects with one or more of the following area buffs.
<ul type="square">[*] Give it a +damage effect, something like a 25-50% increase to all damage. Much lower than what Kinetics can achieve, but more reliable (a toggle).[*] Give it a + End component, increasing the endurance regeneration of all allies in the bubble.[*] Give it a - End drain component, reducing end drain against all allies in the bubble[*] Give it knockback resistance, increasing the knockback/knockup resistance of allies in the bubble.[*] Make it a general mez resistance power, offering limited resistance to all kinds of mez effects.[*] Make it a weakened area version of Fortify; a click aura effect that buffs damage and accuracy but has a long recharge timer.[/list]

We are still discussing solutions rather than problems. I guess that means people think problems are pretty well defined.
<ul type="square">[*]Two-trick pony (defense, knockback), the set needs more tools.[*]No offensive buffing[*]Overly prone to cherry-picking choice powers, which is good for Controllers/Masterminds but not Defenders[/list]
Can we all sign this?

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Nor will Defenders be the only AT affected by whatever changes come from this, if any.

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THAT is where I disagree. Defenders CAN and SHOULD be the only ones affected by this change. We already know that they can change the effectiveness of powers based on the AT and they should continue to tweak ALL the powers to have unique flavor for the given AT...

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I am afraid this is indeed a cottage. We can wish for Defender FF to be unique and different, but I very, very much doubt that will ever happen. It is extra works for the devs, makes the code harder to maintain, and just isn't really called for.

On the other hand, we could get changes implemented that benefit defenders more. Like a damage buff field. Controllers still do less damage than defenders, and Masterminds already have a damage buff for their minions as an inherent. Defenders also have better damage buff numbers (we can use the figures for Fulcrum Shift to compare). There might be other similar things that benefit Defenders based on playstyle as well.

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I don't deny there's a problem with FF Defenders. I played one. I deleted it.

What I want to see are changes made that will actually be effective. When I look at FF and Defenders' secondaries, blasting doesn't work with Knockback and herding doesn't work with Defenders' nukes.

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In my experience, Defender nukes don't work at all. Nuking, for a defender, is mainly a way to get unwanted aggro that you cannot contain. And Defender blasts can work with FF; depending on the set you choose. Radiation and Electricity like to be clos-in, and thus work poorly. Archery and Psi like to stand off and work better.

Still, I agree the synergy between FF and blasting secondaries sucks, and could be much better. This could actually be added to the list of FF issues, and some of the proposed changes here (damage buff field, slow field) could help.

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I'm standing on the beach between the two asking for change, but controlled change over time. Something that will make the set more attractive, but not change it in a drastic way. It's an unenviable position because I get hit from both sides. That's life.

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It is also not easy to define "change, but controlled change over time". These words could probably be used by each of us to describe what we want and still we are not in agreement.

When people who cannot agree with each other are shouting at you, its a sign that you are pushing your point to aggressively. Shooting down people's ideas, as someone said, and generally trying to be the arbiter. I think it would be wiser to adopt a more accepting stance, try to give reasons why you think certain ideas are impractical, suggest modified versions of people's ideas and now and then summing up the discussion so that it can start over.

In other words, take a step back and try to be less defensive. Even if you have played FF a lot, yours is not the only view.