Soulcapacitor

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The basic tack we took was "if the power is not being taken by the players, replace it with something that is."

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So when can we expect a change to Temperature Protection?

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Actully yes, they added Slow movment and Recharge Resistance to it.

With the added Buff it will still do well against Energy, more so even. now when EA sits pretty in a mob of mus it can heal any damage that gets past its defence and resistance. Sure i think EA could get a buff to those numbers but EA migitates other damage types better than Elec provided it hasnt been cut to shreads by Def Debuffs.

Defence Vs Resistance argument? nah, its just a basic comparison. Ice has both defence and resistance but not spread out like EA. FA and Elec are pure resistance so thats my justification on why they have high numbers out of the box. Invulnerability is definatly a power house but requires you to be in the thick of the action to get major benifit & it still has weak points in Psi, is easily confused and has no end managment outside of pool powers and IOs.

The way EA is headed its got the best of almost everything; Awesome Mez protection, decent Defence, ok resistance, Stealth without the movment penalty, one of the best and most forgiving T9's in the game, 2 end managment powers and one end managment power now includes a self heal & has always been able to drain mobs dry of end.

Compared to Elec with high resists, great mez protection, 2 end managment powers, one that taunts & prevents recovery while draining mobs dryand a damage aura. but its mez protection is situational in that you have to be on the ground, its T9 is about as forgiving as unstoppable, the inate eweakness of resistance only of being hit almost all the time and outside of pool powers you have nothing but regen to heal yourself.

I like both sets, dont get me wrong. i just think EAs getting the better deal without Pool Powers considered. other than that once i got Aid Self on my /Elec i could solo 4 person team spawns (havnt tryed higher spawns yet), provided they aint loaded with negative and toxic damage lol. 40% Resists + Aidself FTW

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Invuln doesnt hit the cap of S/L Resists either it sits on 49.7% Resist and 7.4% (without Invinc, 30.8% with 10 targets) Defence.

DA hits a grand total of 46.8% resist and 5.9% Defence for negative, heck Psi resist is better on it at 58.5% with the same defence, not to mention the utility of cloak of fear with its Mag 3 9.6s Fear and -7.8% Tohit debuff Slotted out with SOs.

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Weird that Invuln in getting a buff to its S/L resists too, right? There's also the fact that Invuln has a massive self heal HP buff and defense to help with the fact that it doesn't cap. And of course the fact that S/L is the predominant damage type that we encounter in the game. Arguably, Invuln's protection to it is worth more than similar or greater protection to the less frequently encounter types.

As for the actual Elemental sets, Fire, Ice and Elec all cap out of the box. I already talked about DA in my other post on this topic. I gave the same reasons as you and more why it doesn't get capped to Negative. There is that tiny issue of DA having the best health recovery power in the game that has to be taken into consideration as well as 2 control auras.


WP and SR have no place in this discussion. I'm over here complaining my apple isn't red enough, so you point at some oranges and say, "so what?" It's a non response. I specifically have said Elemental sets a few times now, I'm sorry if you didn't understand what that meant. You can also keep your fail comment in your back pocket, or maybe somewhere a little more snug than that.

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+2.5% Base resist bonus to the auto....not a huge buff. so that would make it....no where near the Cap still. DP is a great power for sure but Power Sink, Energy Drain and Conserve Power are also frigging awesome.

Ice isnt a Brute set, nor is it a Stalker Set so what is its relevance to Elec/FA capping their Element and EA getting a decent deal on its Defence and resistance? none. EA is in the catagory of 'other' with all the other sets that dont Cap their 'element' for one reason or another. WP and SR have more of a place in this discussion than Ice because they ARE Brute and Stalker Sets, no oranges or apples just a big line of lemons. enjoy.



For the sake of argument Ice has 2 resistances, 3 if you count Hoarfrosts Toxic resistance of 31.2% every 184.7s IF you dont slot for heal, F 32% C 90% and 6 Defences S/L E/N all at 30% with SOs and F/C at 3.5%.

See how the resistance numbers are opposite to the Defence numbers? thats the balance, when ice gets hit by any of those attacks it takes full damage. In the very likely event that it gets hit by a Cold attack it will resist most of it just like other elemental sets. it even has its weakness for fire there as only resisting 32% of the damage and almost always getting hit by it.

compare Ices Cold 3.5% Defence 90% Resistance to EAs Energy 32.2% Defence 14.8% Resistance. Which is the same argument as comparing Elecs energy or FAs Fire resistance to EAs Defence and Resistance.

Ice, FA and Elec 'Take it on the Chin' and have to deal with all the ugly problems and secondary effects of being hit. EA has a significant chance to avoid it completely and if it doesnt then at least the decent resistance will reduce the sting a little.


I apologise for my Obnoxious 'Fail's, not going to bother attempting to excuse them as nothing i could say would.

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You run an EA and an Elec into a mob of Mus and tell me who survives longer, even without Weave and CJ.

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I have, it was the /EA. But not for the reasons you are thinking.

It was the mez. The mu luts were easily able to stack holds and stuns to massive toggle-drop proportions in a matter of seconds, causing toggle drop on the /ela while most of it missed the /ea (although she was struggling a little more for end, but not that much)

then again, it's the same reason that 15 tsoo green ink men can make an /ela cry despite their incredible energy protection while an /ea sorta shrugs and keeps on killing. It's an inherent weakness of resistance-based sets to make up for their far more stable performance. Honestly I think that's one of the best reasons to choose a stone-out-of-granite brute... a damage shield plus an almost total lack of weakness to stacked mez from herds.

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So my argument of Defence making ALL (including mez's) energy typed attack miss more compared to Being hit almost all the time with a Resistance set is not the reason EA would win out?

FAIL

What you said is the end point I was making, reguardless if it was due to mez, -end or damage EA will still be standing long after Elec in a spawn of Mu's or Green Ink's. Add in Pool power's (Aid Self) and elec can stand there all day, or atleast until Lightning Field kills the spawn.

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I think you should rephrase that post. I mean, the words were mostly in english, but the sentence structure was so confusing I have almost NO idea what you just said.

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Really? ok just so you can understand.

My 1st post: Insinuation that; EA Wins because of Defence. Elec Loses Because its only Resists.

Your Post: Yes, but not for the reasons you think; EA Wins Because of Defence. Elec Loses Because its only Resists.

My Second Post: WTH? i just said that Doesnt matter if it was a Mez, a -End or Damage that did it, EA still won because of Defence. and Elec is only Resists.

Your Second Post: I cant read your post, you make no sense.

This Post: Well Duh

That clear enough for ya?

You said I was not 100% correct then said the same basic thing I said.

Here's the Rephrase;

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So, in my post I mentioned that Energy Aura (EA) would be better off than the Electrical Armour (Elec). This would have to be a direct result of EA's defence to not be hit at all by a good portion of the attacks. Where as Elec, having no defence at all, would be hit almost all the time and no doubt be defeatedl much faster.

Considering that I mentioned these fact's in my previous post I can only ask myself, and you, why you would state that my post was inaccurate as to the reason's why EA would out last Elec in a Spawn of Mu's? Especially Considering you make the same point in your 'Accurate' explaination.

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That is 100% English and 100% understandable. If you miss the point now you should probably seek English lessons.

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So, basically it's okay to give EA less mitigation to its own Element than other sets because of pool defenses?

No thanks.

I'll say it again, every other elemental set gets capped against its type without help. If Castle thinks that defense is special enough to warrant not doing that, I'll wait for him to say it.

If it is, the we should have the ability to cap our def debuff resistance like SR.

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Invuln doesnt hit the cap of S/L Resists either it sits on 49.7% Resist and 7.4% (without Invinc, 30.8% with 10 targets) Defence.

DA hits a grand total of 46.8% resist and 5.9% Defence for negative, heck Psi resist is better on it at 58.5% with the same defence, not to mention the utility of cloak of fear with its Mag 3 9.6s Fear and -7.8% Tohit debuff Slotted out with SOs.

WP sits pretty on 32.2% Psi resist with 11.7% Psi Defence so thats nowhere near the cap, even S/L gets a better deal with 35.1% Res thos falls down with 3.9% Def. but RttC makes WP awesome with making your regen 23.2 HP/s jump to 78.5 HP/s with 10 targets, not to mention the added -5.85% Tohit Debuff.

FA Caps out same as Elec but they are both Resistance only sets so they need it.

SR being majority Def Hiting 30.4% Def from all vectors. With Scaled Resists that only kick in when you are almost dead is much like EA but on a different thematic means.

so your statement every other set caps out at their Element is false, one does in the brute sets and thats a Resistance only set like Elec.

FAIL

EDIT: I did not include Stone (which also does not Cap out without Grainite) and all my numbers are without T9's and slotted with SOs.

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You run an EA and an Elec into a mob of Mus and tell me who survives longer, even without Weave and CJ.

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I have, it was the /EA. But not for the reasons you are thinking.

It was the mez. The mu luts were easily able to stack holds and stuns to massive toggle-drop proportions in a matter of seconds, causing toggle drop on the /ela while most of it missed the /ea (although she was struggling a little more for end, but not that much)

then again, it's the same reason that 15 tsoo green ink men can make an /ela cry despite their incredible energy protection while an /ea sorta shrugs and keeps on killing. It's an inherent weakness of resistance-based sets to make up for their far more stable performance. Honestly I think that's one of the best reasons to choose a stone-out-of-granite brute... a damage shield plus an almost total lack of weakness to stacked mez from herds.

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So my argument of Defence making ALL (including mez's) energy typed attack miss more compared to Being hit almost all the time with a Resistance set is not the reason EA would win out?

FAIL

What you said is the end point I was making, reguardless if it was due to mez, -end or damage EA will still be standing long after Elec in a spawn of Mu's or Green Ink's. Add in Pool power's (Aid Self) and elec can stand there all day, or atleast until Lightning Field kills the spawn.

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I would much much prefer end drain protection over more energy defense.

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Am I a [censored] for asking for both? Does that make /EA overpowered?

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That depends. Would Electric Armor be overpowered with a cloak?

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I don't think it's fair to compare Electric armor to Energy Aura.

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Most if not all End drains are Energy Typed which is a defence that EA has in surplus. That is EAs priamary protection against end drains.

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With 3 level 50 Defense IOs in the shields /EA has 26.7% defense to Energy and 16.6% to negative energy.

With no toxic or psi defense.

While with electric if you slot the shields with 3 level 50 IOs, you're looking at capped Energy resistance, 31.3% resistance to negative energy, and 41.6% res to Psi. And you've got resistance to end drain and recovery debuff in Static shield. And some more end drain res in Grounded.

I still don't think it'd be overpowered to give /EA a bit more defense to Energy and similar end drain resistance as elec.

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Power Shield Slotted with SOs is 23.4% Cold, Fire and Energy Defence. Negative energy is ment to be a weak point of EA thus why it only gets 16.4% Defence.

Add Kinetic Shields 2.9% Energy Defence which makes Energys defence hit 26.3% which is pretty good from 2 shields.

Add energy cloak 5.85% ontop and that takes Energy defence to 32.2%

Then you might like to get Fighting so Weaves 5.8% gets popped ontop for a total of 38%. not to mention the awesome bonus to your S/L resists along the way from tough.

Then you need a travel power, hey why not ill get Combat Jumping and SJ. so add 2.93% and we got 41% there abouts.

So heres where we ar sitting after all that,

P/T 14.6% (P only) Def 0%Res

N 31% Def 11.7% Res

F/C 38% Def 0% Res

E 41% Def 14.6% Res

S/L 34.5% Def 29.3% Res

Not bad for SOs and 5 pool powers. Take another 3 pools into Medicine for aid self and you still for 16 primary and secondary powers to choose. 13 if you take fitness.

Most is accurate to my knowledge as you only list one. Where the majority is all Electical attacks (as in to many to be bothers listing) and Sappers from malta. All are energy Typed attacks and are easily avoided.

Also your missing the difference between Resistance and Defence. EA is made assuming you wont get hit as much. Elec Aura is made because you WILL get hit. Thats the main reason elec has i higher Drain reisist, not to mention its more thematic for elec. Grounded only works when you are touching the ground, thats an inherent weakness to counter its abilitys.

You run an EA and an Elec into a mob of Mus and tell me who survives longer, even without Weave and CJ.

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I would much much prefer end drain protection over more energy defense.

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Am I a [censored] for asking for both? Does that make /EA overpowered?

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That depends. Would Electric Armor be overpowered with a cloak?

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I don't think it's fair to compare Electric armor to Energy Aura.

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Most if not all End drains are Energy Typed which is a defence that EA has in surplus. That is EAs priamary protection against end drains.

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meh. /ea is turning into willpower*. The bright side is that at least brutes aren't expected to hold aggro like a tanker. Get in, take the alpha so that the mastermind doesn't wet himself, and get out.

*basically a tough set that can't hold aggro without help.

I think this thread should be un-stickied the second I13 goes live. Can lighthouse do that?

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How does adding a 2-20% unslotted, 4-40% fully Slotted Self Heal to Energy Drain make EA even remotly like WP?

If anything it makes Energy Drain more unique and further apart from Power Sink of /Elec and alot greater survivability. It fits thematicly, converting the energy into a shield reninforcment or a Dull Painish effect. Adding Toxic Resistance to our Auto Resist power fits in nicely.

Really im not seeing any resemblance to WP at all Frost...well besides the obvious mixed Defence and Resists

Im stoked with the change myself, not overpowered and not too little, at least on paper (so to speak). this will make EA brilliant fun for Bruteing and make me consider taking the auto resist for my Stalker

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I already said, a tough set that can't hold aggro.

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really? i hold Aggro on my WP toons, Slotted RttC with Hael and to hit debuffs, taunt one slotted for taunt duration with tough, weave, maneuvers and CJ. not a single IO in the build and i hold aggro fine. with extreme damage or good mix of def debuff and constant high damage ill fall only to get back up moments later, SoW, Taunt, Shields toggle on.

with consistant Taunting and little slotting you can hold aggro well on any set really, the improvments to EA will just allow you to stay standing against mobs that still have end.

So i aggree with you a little but not much, WP isnt the ewasiest to hold aggro with but its by far not the hardest.

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meh. /ea is turning into willpower*. The bright side is that at least brutes aren't expected to hold aggro like a tanker. Get in, take the alpha so that the mastermind doesn't wet himself, and get out.

*basically a tough set that can't hold aggro without help.

I think this thread should be un-stickied the second I13 goes live. Can lighthouse do that?

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How does adding a 2-20% unslotted, 4-40% fully Slotted Self Heal to Energy Drain make EA even remotly like WP?

If anything it makes Energy Drain more unique and further apart from Power Sink of /Elec and alot greater survivability. It fits thematicly, converting the energy into a shield reninforcment or a Dull Painish effect. Adding Toxic Resistance to our Auto Resist power fits in nicely.

Really im not seeing any resemblance to WP at all Frost...well besides the obvious mixed Defence and Resists

Im stoked with the change myself, not overpowered and not too little, at least on paper (so to speak). this will make EA brilliant fun for Bruteing and make me consider taking the auto resist for my Stalker

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I was talking about IO's in that post you quoted? weird, I don't see a single mention of an IO throughout the entire text.

If you had actually read what I said that you quoted, I was talking about /ea in combination with primaries. It had nothing to do with IO's.

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in your posts your saying EA is great with IOs; yea well Invulerability is fantasitc with IOs as is damn near every other Armour. IOs are not what sets are balanced around Frost, dont ever bring them up in comparisons because it complicates them needlessly.

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I will accept your apology if you are mature enough to give it.

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But you CAN'T just compare them in a vacuum. It doesn't make any sense, and I only did it as an exercise in shutting someone up.

I mean, it's like this. fire armor is kind of a meh set for brutes, realistically. War mace, war axe, and energy melee don't get a great deal from fire as a secondary.

But when you add in ss with both it's footstomp mitigation, rage damage boost for fire's damage shield, and the ability to drop burn on footstomped opponents (if you like that combo) fire armor takes OFF, and turns into a devastating machine of total destruction.

electric armor isn't a very good set... but when you add in dark melee with it's long-duration buildup and self heal, it becomes an exceptional set. But few people would consider energy melee/electric armor a 'good' setup.

war mace and dark armor's oppressive gloom can combine to make for some truly incredible damage mitigation in the form of stuns. (A combo I have played with extensively but a lot of people can't stomach)

the thing is that these comparisons are not in a vacuum. I have an elec/ea brute, level 36, with some cute procs and a build specialised for sapping. She can drain out an entire group of 17 minions/luts/bosses in a little less than 5 seconds, and kill them all in about 20 seconds. But the fact of the matter is, That is exactly what I designed her to do.. That doesn't mean elec/ea is the best combination on the planet, but if you look at either /ea or electric melee by themselves you wouldn't immediately assume that they are designed for turning a herd into a bunch of brawling nimrods or that a little simple synergy can drag your damage mitigation up to nearly 100%... and yet that's not something that electric and any other set (save electric armor) can do.

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Highlighted, also i said post' S , Pural. not to mention i do have a habit of rattling off thoughts from reading the thread between my posts in one lump, but in this case you did mention a commonly used IO term in the context of them being IO Procs so you can see its easy to talk about IOs.

Look im not having a dig at you Frost but EA dose need work to be a brute set, let alone if they plan to port it over for scrappers and tanks. Like i said i love EA on my Stalker, it gives me the defence i need to kill a few things in a mob and sap their end before i start Scrapping. But for a brute set it lacks survivability.

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But you CAN'T just compare them in a vacuum. It doesn't make any sense, and I only did it as an exercise in shutting someone up.

I mean, it's like this. fire armor is kind of a meh set for brutes, realistically. War mace, war axe, and energy melee don't get a great deal from fire as a secondary.

But when you add in ss with both it's footstomp mitigation, rage damage boost for fire's damage shield, and the ability to drop burn on footstomped opponents (if you like that combo) fire armor takes OFF, and turns into a devastating machine of total destruction.

electric armor isn't a very good set... but when you add in dark melee with it's long-duration buildup and self heal, it becomes an exceptional set. But few people would consider energy melee/electric armor a 'good' setup.

war mace and dark armor's oppressive gloom can combine to make for some truly incredible damage mitigation in the form of stuns. (A combo I have played with extensively but a lot of people can't stomach)

the thing is that these comparisons are not in a vacuum. I have an elec/ea brute, level 36, with some cute procs and a build specialised for sapping. She can drain out an entire group of 17 minions/luts/bosses in a little less than 5 seconds, and kill them all in about 20 seconds. But the fact of the matter is, That is exactly what I designed her to do.. That doesn't mean elec/ea is the best combination on the planet, but if you look at either /ea or electric melee by themselves you wouldn't immediately assume that they are designed for turning a herd into a bunch of brawling nimrods or that a little simple synergy can drag your damage mitigation up to nearly 100%... and yet that's not something that electric and any other set (save electric armor) can do.

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You CAN if you take into account that the only variable is the armours themselves. FA is meh for brutes, im sorry did i miss something? Here i thought the whole point of a Brutes existance was to lay slaughter to everything in sight, something a FA Brute can do well. Pair FA with Elec and you have a killer amount of End sapping and AoEs being boosted by FA in the form of a deathly Damage aura, Consume and fiery embrace. That sort of build would have killing mobs fast as a form of migitation.

in your posts your saying EA is great with IOs; yea well Invulerability is fantasitc with IOs as is damn near every other Armour. IOs are not what sets are balanced around Frost, dont ever bring them up in comparisons because it complicates them needlessly.

no, you can still do controled comparisons, you just need to consider more than Endurance, Resistance and Defence in the comparison. you dont need specific numbers on the those, just make an assumption and say it takes X seconds between mobs. Assume an average mob is defeated in X seconds. so long as the only variables are the secondary sets you can easily make a comparison in a 'Vacuum'

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yes, in a high-damage-saturation environment some other sets take the lead. frankly, I think one of the reasons they put cloak into /ea so it wouldn't be in a high-damage saturation environment. .

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And how is taking low damaged supposed to help with Fury generation? really they should have released it as /Ice if the intent was to stay out of combat or take less hits.

You consentrated far too much on the Endurance that you lost sight of being a Brute. EA is gimped for Brutes for this reason; If a Brute cant take a hit then it has no place in the Brute sets, sneak around sapping end like a cross between a Staker and a Sapper, really thats about the size of it.

Only when the mob has no end can you really stick around and fight, but you havnt generated much fury prancing about like a Stalker now have you :P

EA for Stalkers however is brilliant, you can stick around and fight like a Scrapper at times provided they cant fight back lol. But if any thing lands a hit you feel it heh, ahh the way it should be.

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Come back when you have some numbers.

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I believe I read it in one of Arcanavilles Posts, specificly about SR around the days of adding the resists to it if memory serves. I sure as hell trust Arcanavilles math and theory more than yours.

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yeah, a lot of people let others do their thinking for them. I don't want you to trust my math or hers, I want you to do it for yourself and use your own brain instead of taking it on 'authority'.

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Will you take personal experiance instead? Ive played my EA brute since i started, constantly attempting to rebuild it serveral different ways to contend with the other sets out there (this is pre-IOs). uppon coming to a complete failure to make a build that worked I played other sets and found them do completly blow EA out of the water as far as survivability was concerned.

Then i looked around the forums to find why EA suffered where other sets did not, what did i find? Acanavilles 'Fix Defence' thread. This taought me about more of the game mechanics than most people would care to explore but i gained the more usful points about Defence Armours and their inherent weaknesses.

1) -Defence is one of, if not the most, encountered Debuff in the game. I look at powers hitting me now and see if they have -defence just to re-enforce that too myself.

2) Tohit Buffs negate Defence too easily. I know this is a PvP problem mainly but Neme's get Vengie so dont discount the problem from PvE either.

In a high defence Set any damage that get through will hurt like all get out. Small amount of resistance to anything other than energy is next to meaningless when your primary form of deflecting/dampening damage is Debuffed to nothing or been rendered pointless by overpowered Buffs from your attacker.

And yes I even used Aid Self 6 Slotted (2 Heal, 2 Interupt and 2 recharge time Nonset IOs) which worked ok until the -defence stacked beyond my ability to defeat the mobs before they defeated me.

The utility of the set is subpar compared to other trick and pony Sets, sure EA is great for your end ills but lacks the scaled resists that save SR from eatting concrete or the solid alround durability of Invulnerability. Its great that youcan have no problems with end with EA but having a full bar of end doesnt help you much if your defence has been eaten away, expect to make close friends with the ground shortly after that.

I do admit im content with EA on my stalker, but thats because i can pick my fights with greater ease and not much lives long enough to debuff me. but on a brute that relys on fury to really get things done EA is far below the nessisary survivablity if your facing anything that uses an attack thats not typed for Energy. Sure its EAs strength but the other sets dont lack as much as EA does when it comes to the standard line up.

if I were going to calculate the migitation, i would think i would calculate defence migitation first then calculate the percentage that surpassed the Defence with resistance migitation. Id take into account that we are not mindless Brawl spammers and alot for 'Resting' (standing there and taking the hits while your end recovers).

Sure lets say its a race too, but the Stone can afford to stand there and take it but the EA would need to constantly pushing forward, using the Energy Drain and Conserve Power to its advantage. But the problem you fail to see is that doing that increases the incoming damage faster, so more damage needs to be migitated, if too much then EA falls over and has to hosp it losing his lead to the slow Stoner.

look, its far too late for me to be bothered arguing this beyond my own experiance and the collective knowledge of others. the fact is EA is a terrible set for a brute, it works ok but doesnt hit home where it should. so it needs a fix IMO, and i think that fix could be as simple as +HP to the Autos with some added Protection from Psi.

But hey what would i know, i dont calculate everything i do all the time.

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Come back when you have some numbers.

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I believe I read it in one of Arcanavilles Posts, specificly about SR around the days of adding the resists to it if memory serves. I sure as hell trust Arcanavilles math and theory more than yours.

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That means that stone SURVIVES, 'in a vacuum' two-thirds better. except for one problem. You don't get exp in this game by just surviving. you get exp by KILLING stuff... literally, stone is spending half of it's time NOT ATTACKING, which means mobs spend TWICE as long beating on stone... That's functionally identical to having half the mitigation as /ea, plus 2/3rds. Which mean that stone armor, in practice, in a vacuum, literally onlpy has about 5/6ths of /ea's REAL mitigation value.


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You also dont gain XP for laying on your face either. Stone may rest more frequantly for End but EA would also have to Rest Repeatedly for HP.

Not to mention you missed out on the frequancy and affect of Debuffs. Defence Debuffs are more common than Regen and Resistance Debuffs combined, and they gain no cumulitve resistance from it. Resistance Debuff Resistance acutlly reduces the amount the Debuff does. where as Defence debuff resistance does not, it just hacks off the value stated.

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Umm.... what are you talking about?

we weren't talking about resistance, we were talking about /ea without ol and /stone without granite. The defense debuff resistance numbers highly favor /ea (51.9% versus stone's 26%) but I figured I already had a strong enough argument without bringing that up.

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Stone has resitance and a self heal to fall back on when its defence is carved up, EA has resistances that are hardly worth taking and thats it. when EAs defence is gone, the brute falls. when Stones Defence is gone, the brute heals more often

your arguement lacked to take that into account and was not strong enough.

Small Defence + Resistance + Self heal > Defence + small resistance

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That means that stone SURVIVES, 'in a vacuum' two-thirds better. except for one problem. You don't get exp in this game by just surviving. you get exp by KILLING stuff... literally, stone is spending half of it's time NOT ATTACKING, which means mobs spend TWICE as long beating on stone... That's functionally identical to having half the mitigation as /ea, plus 2/3rds. Which mean that stone armor, in practice, in a vacuum, literally onlpy has about 5/6ths of /ea's REAL mitigation value.


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You also dont gain XP for laying on your face either. Stone may rest more frequantly for End but EA would also have to Rest Repeatedly for HP.

Not to mention you missed out on the frequancy and affect of Debuffs. Defence Debuffs are more common than Regen and Resistance Debuffs combined, and they gain no cumulitve resistance from it. Resistance Debuff Resistance acutlly reduces the amount the Debuff does. where as Defence debuff resistance does not, it just hacks off the value stated.

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What I'd like some clarity on is a statement by Castle where he says the powers will be just like they were in PVE, and in PVP enabled zones they will have a nerfed performance.

My question is if a given power that only buffs me gets a PVP nerf, does that mean when I go to a PVP Zone for PVE reasons (Shivans, Nukes, RV prestige hunting) that my powers are similarly nerfed?

This might be a serious issue with some folks who love their APPs.

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The way i read the given info from here and other Dev posts is the APPs and PPPs will be balanced out for PvE and PvP, most likely a small nerf to APPs and a balanced buff to PPPs.

Other powers that can be balanced for PvP only will be the powers that have seperate Codeing for Critters and Players. Powers like buffs and location powers normally dont have that luxury so they, i assume from previous mentioning, will be uneffected while other powers will have the VS Player component rebalanced leaving the VS Critter component as is.

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If Arcanaville's anti-Defense idea got implemented, I might die of pure joy and delight. Very little chance of that, though.

I'd look for Aim and Buildup to be much less potent in PvP. After all, if I invest my entire secondary in gaining Defense, why should someone be able to overcome it 100% with only 2 powers? The answer of course is, they shouldn't. Aim and Buildup should improve your chances of hitting in PvP, but it shouldn't necessarily guarantee it.

And I can't believe the PPPs are going to be buffed. That's long overdue and beyond fantastic!

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Anti-Defence requires a rework of the powers and adding a mechanic. Why not make Said Build ups Lesser in Tohit Buffs and add an accuracy compnonent per Tactical Training: offencive. 3rd Party tohit buffs should probably be left well alone or reduced to a lesser degree. That would make Pure Defence Viable in PvP without adding an additional Mechanic. Sure its a bandaid but still a half decent idea.

Tho given the thoughts in my 3rd quote, Anti-Defence is a destinct possibility, which makes me very happy.

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Matt: But if you read between the lines, you could probably infer some features

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Wasnt there some mention by one of the Devs of Custom NPCs bordering on Power Customisation? MA is pretty much complete from what i can gather, as is the majority of i13.

Pretty much a certinty that no Power Proliferation is on the books for the next 2-3 issues. So from now until the end of march they have alot less on their plate, i assume. So what else could they do for 6 Months? Work on i15, more Booster Packs or Power Customisation?

Forgive me if im feeding the masses for conspiracy and False hope/expectation.

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Honestly I do not think of EA as force fields. I think of it rather as becoming energy. Like you are only partiall physical and partially energy, so there is a chance the attack just passes through you. And I would put the psi defense in energy cloak. Kind of like they can't mess with your mind if they can't see you because you are an invisible only partially material phantasm.


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In my opinion, energy can be more broad. As you and Soul capacitor have mentioned, it's energy. Psionic is also a form of energy. This can open up a lot more possibilities in enhancing the set in several different ways.

Linking energy aura to force field is more like an observation of the current status of energy aura. It doesn't mean that energy aura should be close to force field conceptually, but the design of the current energy aura seems like to be quite related to force field. You might not like it, or you might not agree, but energy aura is like that right now.

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What about stealth buffing?

Does anyone advocate making the stealth from energy cloak stackable with stealth from the concealment pool? With a stealth IO that would give 1078 feet of stealth in PvP. Not enough to hide from an SR scrapper running focused senses and focused accuracy, but enough to hide from standard toons running focused accuracy or tactics.


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It's a valid suggestion, I think. I'm not sure if the dev wants energy aura to be that stealthy.

In fact, regarding stealth, some people don't like to be stealthy on a brute. I know that you like to stealth a lot, but there are some who don't. If I were to change something about energy cloak, I would take the defense out of energy cloak and put it in entropy shield. Then for people like you, you can still enjoy a stealth with no movement penalty. And for people who hate stealth, they can skip energy cloak since it no longer offers defense.

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I also referenced EA being similar to PFF and said make buffs to EA that are similar in mechanic to ice *raises guilty hand* But yes it is like a force field made out of energy lol.

Seeing as the Brutes Stealth cap is 570 odd feet at level 50, a stealth IO and Energy Cloak hits that cap easy. Seeing as you cant change an ATs Caps by power set if you wanted it to be higher All Brutes would have a higher Stealth cap.

For Balance reasons I would put the Toxic resistance (if at all any) and Psi Defence (with a little Psi Resistance if at all) on Entropy Shields because adding the new Defence Value is balanced by having to Enhance it (unlike my other suggestions that didnt require any, this one would because its a new defencive Value)

I rationalize Psi defence, not much if at all any resistance, as its a form of energy. that and EA has 2 holes and a weakness as is which is outright wrong. Negative energy should be its major down fall, giveing a moderate (20-30% at most after enhancments) Resistance to toxic and a decent Psi 'energy' Defence with little to no Rersistance. While Negative has a low Defence with a low resistance to forge it as its weakness.

Which still gives it weaknesses for all 3 but something substantial for toxic and Psi. Sure EA is similar to PPF but its not a Foce Field, its an Energy Shield. they are similar but different still. I agree a little more Def Debuff Resists should be implimented but if energy Defence is raised then theres not much need to give it more end drain resistance as it was said in a previous post the high Energy Defence IS its Sapping protection.

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The fiction of the game is a bit inconsistent concerning the hit point bar and damage resistance. In some cases, the HP bar represents a pool of points that must be depleted before the character is dead. In other cases it represents a threshold of pain tolerance that must be exceeded before the character is rendered unconscious. It serves double duty.


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I think you're relating hp to the "hp of the shield," rather than the hp of the person. I think overload has a +max hp because your body is overloaded, so you have a higher pain tolerance and can take more damage before you fall.

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Well it was my interptertation, your citation does not limit or null my interpretation. As its not quoted that your depiction of EA's +Max HP is true, i would still take it as Ablative Shielding; which would be the first one, 'The HP bar represents a pool of points that must be depleted before the character is dead'.


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The HP bar represents a pool of points of the character that must be depleted usually. After all, depleting the points make the character dead, not making the shield dead. Also, toxic resistance is usually associated with +max hp, so it's very likely that the +max hp is referring to the body, not the shield. But of coz, the quote is not clear about this, it just says a pool of points, but doesn't say the pool of points belong to what. So, you're free to interpret in any way that you like.

Technically, if the hp increase is referring to the hp of the shield, I suppose when the hp of the shield is gone, your shield is broken and the toggle or overload has to drop unfortunately. Also, the shield should +max hp together with a heal, because it doesn't make sense to have a newly activated shield but completely worn out initially.

I think the ablation of the shield that you're thinking about is better attributed to adding resistance, rather than adding hp.

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But thats the point, little bits here and there to combine into a decent protection in, but say just under that of Def/Res Combo sets without the extra powers like energy drain and such, that keeps with the theme of the set.

Look at the +Max HP's as the connection between the user and the shield or similar less charged varients of Overloads. Im suggesting more resistance anyway, not in huge amounts as the set is predominantly Def but enough to give it that feeling and effect of stopping the damage like an energy shield should.

Perhaps throw it all together for;

Good Defence (energy obviously being the highest with negative as the lowest and a Smashing/leathal Psi defence. about the same as negative, if applicable, Toxic.)

with some ok resists (again energy being the highest and negative/Toxic being the lowest, if at all for toxic. a few percent above them is psi, making the psi defence EAs only majore Psi protection. and all the rest averaged out just above what they are now.)

and lastly the +Max HPs to add up to say +20-30% at most (filling whatever interpretation you might have for it )so not huge but not usless.

Or even still +Max End instead (fitting the thematic extra energy this sort of toon might have.)


Fitting it into the set shouldnt be too much bother. Psi Def/Res on Entropy Shield, Change the Auto Resists to reflect the changes, Add +Max HPs/Ends to all Toggles (like Kinetic Shield, Power Shield, Entropy Shield) and do it all in away that would not make the slotting as is redundant (Making the Psi Def/Res as a soild value or even make it the exception) by keeping the +Max HP/End as an unenhancable value.

And lastly adding Taunt to Energy Drain, lord knows we use it enough, so keeping it with its base design it has no Damage/Taunt Aura Toggle.

Balancing all this out to fit in all the Melee ATs for the sake of completness. So that if it is on a Stalker the +Max HPs (if used) dont make them hit their Cap before Overload. If on a Tanker the Def Soft Caps are still not reached (bar Energy) by EA alone before Overload. Etc.

Pretty much 2 things i'd like, a Tougher EA and a Balance to it (not overpowered or underpowered). Cause really theres not many Gimicks you can add to the set to counter balance its underproformance, not unless you move powers or Remove and add a few powers which would be more of a headache.

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The fiction of the game is a bit inconsistent concerning the hit point bar and damage resistance. In some cases, the HP bar represents a pool of points that must be depleted before the character is dead. In other cases it represents a threshold of pain tolerance that must be exceeded before the character is rendered unconscious. It serves double duty.


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I think you're relating hp to the "hp of the shield," rather than the hp of the person. I think overload has a +max hp because your body is overloaded, so you have a higher pain tolerance and can take more damage before you fall.

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Well it was my interptertation, your citation does not limit or null my interpretation. As its not quoted that your depiction of EA's +Max HP is true, i would still take it as Ablative Shielding; which would be the first one, 'The HP bar represents a pool of points that must be depleted before the character is dead'.

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Your suggestions still amount to basically toughening EA. My suggestions were actually more along the lines of keeping EA as a utility set, but making its protection more consistent. I would keep the shields low. Keep the set kind of squishy. Just make it more consistent via enhanceable defense debuffs and removing the psi hole (after reading other posts, I would leave the wekness to negative as it is). The only true toughening of EA I recommended was capping energy defense and increasing the mez protection. So essentially I would change EA from a toon that is kind of squishy against most damage types and totally vulnerable to psi and defense debuffing mobs, I would change it to a set that was totally tough against one damage type and kind of squishy against everything else.

For me, the way to make EA tough, if a person really wants to make an EA tank, is to use power pools. Don't forget, people, that EA has the capability of running weave and manuevers WITHOUT NEEDING STAMINA.

EA does not need stamina. It has resistances that are totally optional. If you guys start talking about making the set mimic ice to where you start giving it heals, HP increases, and massive global defense increases, AND THEN let players start building manuevers, weave, and aid self into the build, the set will be over powered.

To recap:

1 - bring energy defense to the soft cap. Perhaps add this extra defense to the passive resists to give players a reason to take them other than as a mule for steadfast protection.
2 - add psi defense to the same level as smashing, lethal, fire, and cold.
3- make the defense debuff resistances enhanceable
4 - add mez preotection against fear and confuse

If you do these things, the toon will have the best mez protection in the game and will be a bastion of consistency against virtually every mob type out there. It will be the best toon to solo with in the game. it will be able to stealth missions. There will hardly be any mobs that can make it totally squishy. You can build it into a tank via power pools. it will be a great, extremely flexible utility set. But if you start making it into a tank on its own via the powers in the set by giving tons of +HP, heals, etc. then you will overpower the set.

The devs conceived of EAQ as a scrapper/stalker combo utility set. Let's concentrate on advising them how to make it a better, more enjoyable utility set. Let's not just throw out random 'wouldn't it be cool if EA were totally untouchable and uber on top of not needing stamina and being able to take 8 powers of any kind from any pool the player wishes.'

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Yes my suggestions amount to toughening because that the way i see it. Overpowering the set is not what i want to acheive, which is why i didnt want to pull numbers out of nowhere as an example. The fact that the additional +Max HPs, +Resists to Def Toggles and +Def to Resists are unenhancable is testiment to that.

Its a matter of making the set Tougher because right now theres little that can be added to the utlilty to make up for the lack of survivability. Im not saying make the set as 'Tough' as SR, as SR has less utility powers (Conserve Power, Energy Drain and Energy Cloak) but make it able to compete with the other sets.

EA pays too much survivability for the utility it gets, thats a fact that ive read here and believe myself. Raising the survivability seems perferable to making it try, and fail, to be Dark Armour. Which isnt 100% what your suggesting i know but it still leans that way.

The reason i think the rest of the set should stay as is is the fact that EA is EA. They are Energy Shields, they are Significant obsticals in the way of damage. SR enhanced DeBuff Resist seems thematicly reasonable due to the fluid nature of its Defences. The Solid Def Debuff Resist of EA is very thematic of the solid nature of the set, it stands in the way of damage rather than avoids it.

So summerised; leave the set as is, it is a pretty good set still, but improve its bases to Def Resist and Max HP (in a manner thats still balanced) and plug the holes that need plugging leaving Negative as its primary Weakness.

No, im saying give the Toggles/autos Unenhancable +Max HPs, just a small cumulative amount. Add some unenhancable +def's to the Autos and some +resistance to the Toggles (not counting Energy Cloak). Adding a Taunt to Energy Drain wouldnt go to badly either.

Just to pull a ball park idea of the overhead; 20% Resists accross the board, Bar Negative energy much lower and energy significantly higher.

Defs around 25-35% accross the board (typed damage only ofcourse), Bar Negative energy also much lower, Toxic (which i think there isnt any place for Toxic Def in the Combat Atts anyway) and Energy which should come to about 40% without Energy Cloak Etc.

Max HPs should cumulate to Maybe +50% at the most. Then Lower Overload according to any buffs to the rest of the set, if said buffs are too much. Which would Decrease EAs dependancy on Overload but will still use it when needed, like all T9's.

Like i said im not too great at balancing the figures, i think i overestimated a few there, but thats the idea. Solid 'ok' protection for all, Hole/s for negative & toxic (or Psi either niether) and Tought as nails Energy Protection.

The base idea is to have Defence as the main, anything that gets thru gets lowered slightly by the resistances and lastly the damage is 'Soaked' by the shields (Max HP increase).

Maybe lower my Resistace estimate to make it fair.
*em shrug*

All good points indeed, but the fact that its compared to other sets for one reason or another brings alot to light then people get lost in the base ideas between Sets.

Thematicly SR way of dealing with incomming damage is Dodging it, Thus the positional defence. They found that it wasnt enough so they added scaled resistances based on the amount of damage youve taken.

Invulnerability, when played to its strengths, is pretty good at everything. Its an ageing dinosaur from the start of the game thats had few adjustments to it. But many people i know feel that WP, even basicly, is what invuln should be (maybe move the Psi to Smashing and leathal and it would be). Thematicly Invuln is ment to be a broad and good overall protection.

Elec, some say, is the Resistance equivilant of what EA should be. I disagree because while both are forms of energy they are thematicly different. Elec, to my summation, is more a field of electricity that Destroys incomming damage rather than stopping it dead in its tracks.

EA, to me, Thematicly is an Armour not unlike Personal Force Field yet still different. Because EA is typed damage it can easily have its strengths and weakneses balanced to those. But it is still a power set that is ment to Deflect and Stop the damage. Looking over its present state it does this in similar ways to Personal Force Field, albeit to a lesser degree.

And rightfully so, its an energy field that the user can attack out of. So its different to Personal Force Field there. Playing to its established abilitys that differ to Personal Force Field (and other sets for that matter) we look at Overload;

+Max HP: Representing the Massive reinfocement of the shields, more the 'Ablative' nature of an overcharged Shield.

+Def: Also reinforcment to the shields but more to the capability of them, Meaning the shere stopping power. any over all Buff could make this drop a little IMO tho.

+Recovery: Expending all this energy at once, surly its gonna result in an increased Recovery.

Coupled with the resists underperforming I came to the realisation to have similar forms of fixing it to its original Power form Ice. Ice has +HPs, Resists and Defences, some are not worth slotting and some are not able to be slotted.

So Follow PFF as an idea with Fixes from its Parent Set and you get. Small, Stacking, unmodifiable +Max HPs, Resists and even Defences (im not 100% great with numbers so im not gonna try to get a balanced example lol) to make an overall Protection that Stops damage in its tracks or ablates Damaging the shield itself. Which IMO is what EA should be.

So SR dodges, Invuln takes it on the chin, Elec Destroys the incoming blows, PFF just stops and slows the damage coming thru and EA Stops and takes the damage to the shielding. Thematicly to me.