Sarrate

[ QUOTE ]
The Gladiator IO is slotted in RPD, and being out of respecs to try it on Test, I have no way to check how it works with exemplaring, sorry. :/

[/ QUOTE ]

D'oh!

Hmm, on second thought, I do have a respec recipe laying around somewhere that I could copy to Test to give you... not sure what your playtime hours are, though.

Nihilii, you're really starting to scare me! Well, at least you didn't have Anti-Matter/Positron in there... yet.

Out of curiosity, what level / where did you slot the Gladiator +3% def IO? I've heard somewhat conflicting information about how it exemplars. I've heard it exemplars like a purple (ie: always on), but I'm not sure if it works if you exemp below the power you have it slotted in. I'd test it if I had one (I wish!), but no such luck, I'm afraid.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If set bonuses work that way, what about the uniques, like the PvP +3% Def IO (Gladiator's Armor, I think)?

[/ QUOTE ]
Those work just like the other uniques - they function as long as you have the power they're slotted in available.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait a sec, what? I thought that some uniques (ie: Steadfast +3% def, Karma +KB Protection, LotG: +7.5% rech) were always on regardless of if you had the power or not - all that mattered was the level of the IO?

*makes a note of something to test tomorrow*

Which set was it from? Reason I ask is all Set IOs have power types they can be slotted in. For example, Crushing Impact is a "melee set," as such, it can only be slotted in single target melee attacks. (ex: Scorch, Haymaker, Heavy Mallet, etc.) Scirocco's Dervish is a "pbaoe set," as such it can only be slotted in pbaoe powers. (ex: Whirling Mace, Pendulum, Frost, etc.) All Tanker sets have those.

What I'm guessing happened is you crafted a Dmg/End from a set like Thunderstrike which can only be slotted in ranged attacks, which you don't have.

If you hover over a recipe/IO, it should tell you what type of set it is. Go into your enhancement screen and hover over any of your powers there, it should list what type of power they are. If the two don't match, the IO is incompatible.


(No offense if this is already well known to you.)

If set bonuses work that way, what about the uniques, like the PvP +3% Def IO (Gladiator's Armor, I think)?

How about this:

*) Pick the largest map you could possibly find.
*) Have a lead out objective that is placed in the back of the map. (Or worse, multiple copies of them.)
*) Give them Stone Armor (Rooted).

*winces*

[ QUOTE ]
Wish list for fiery melee. Change the sound for greater fire sword so that it fits better with the sounds for other powers in the set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd veto that. The screeching sound is part of the appeal, for me.

(Note, that's just my opinion; I'm not saying yours in wrong.)

[ QUOTE ]
Wishlist: Would be nice if tough hide and/or invincibility had a positional component (i.e. melee) for more compatibility with IO set bonuses - Daolong, 2007-08-15

[/ QUOTE ]

With the changes to type defense in I13, is this necessary?

[ QUOTE ]
I like One with the Shield better then other tier 9s. But I still didn't take it on my scrapper. I had it while leveling up, and found that even though the crash is smaller then other powers.. it still dumped my endurance at a time when I needed my endurance more then I needed the mitigation. As a tanker, you shouldn't need it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not picking on you, Shred, but I can't help but laugh at this type of sentiment in a general sense. Very strong T9s (like Unstoppable) that can make a big difference (but are accompanied by a nasty crash) are sometimes skipped because of their crash. Then, the T9s with more mild effects / crashes (OwtS) are skipped because "you don't need it."

It just seems like no matter how Castle designs a T9, people will find something wrong with it. (Hibernate is probably the closest he's come.)


[edit: Not laughing at you - I just find it ironic.]

Okay, true, they're not completely wasted. However, they shouldn't be a build priority either. They fall into the "nice to have, but don't go out of your way for them" category.

(He, got it!)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
My DM/INV -- tricked out with sets for +HP and+recharge

[/ QUOTE ]

That unfortunately is where you went wrong... the +HP does nothing for you really.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure i believe that. Having +HP is actually very important when you fight an AV. I havent at all worked IOs for my HP, and dont have any accolades, and one of my scrapper's HP count is 1420 hp, her's is like 2400, she has about 3/2 as many HP as me. It's like having a 33% resistance to all, that's a huge difference. Also, since she worked on her regeneration too, she regenerates a lot more HP a lot faster as well, those 2 can really help on your green bar in fights.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with +maxhp is it becomes redundant. Accolades + DP will hp cap you (~2409, iirc) causing +maxhp bonuses to go to waste. They help when DP is down, but with enough recharge, it can be made permanent circumventing even that tiny bonus.

Invuln really doesn't get much out of +maxhp. Better to go for +def, +rech, and/or +regen.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pylon + RWZ Challenge
Screenshot
Video

Doing the challenge Werner was talking about - defeating a pylon while a RWZ challenge spawn is attacking you. Two chief mesmerists, one chief soldier, one or two chief mentalist(s) (I can't remember exactly) and one conscript. It wasn't too tough once all riktis were in melee range.

[/ QUOTE ]
Woot! I think you're the first. Grats!

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, (s)he is setting a lot of record firsts. It really makes me grin knowing it's Invuln pushing the boundries, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is nice indeed...
And she is one tough cookie... tanking lord recluse and all...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's a fun trick to pull, no doubt.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pylon + RWZ Challenge
Screenshot
Video

Doing the challenge Werner was talking about - defeating a pylon while a RWZ challenge spawn is attacking you. Two chief mesmerists, one chief soldier, one or two chief mentalist(s) (I can't remember exactly) and one conscript. It wasn't too tough once all riktis were in melee range.

[/ QUOTE ]
Woot! I think you're the first. Grats!

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, (s)he is setting a lot of record firsts. It really makes me grin knowing it's Invuln pushing the boundries, too.

[ QUOTE ]
How do you keep out of GW's heal range with that approach? My problem was that she kept moving, so then I had to, as well (we sometimes managed to hold her in place, but not always). Scirocco and BS kept attacking from range, too, and I didn't want to move around too much and screw up the buffers, the team's attacks, or get the team in range of some attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I do the STF, I keep her in melee range (all of them actually). Her heals have an acc check, so as long as your at or above 45% def, she won't hit very often. Then again, WP has a decent chunk of exotic def, so it's fairly easy for me to soft cap my defense. (Until Scirocco drops his tornadoes, of course.) It'd be considerably more difficult for you as Fiery Aura.

I rarely have that problem with BS and Mako - I hit them with a melee attack when pulling them, so they tend to go right to melee mode. If they start to go range happy, I drop a Taunt on them. Breaking their LoS twice also usually does the trick. (Since I don't move around after getting them set at the beginning, I don't have to worry about them switching to range.)

[ QUOTE ]
Also... wouldn't your approach get you in pretty close to the Flier? Or is that just out if its range (seems like the flier would be away from Recluse's range, too, if that's the case, but people say to take it out)?

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd think so, right? I've never seen the Flier aggro when doing the above.

[edit: It definitely can aggro while fighting the Towers, though. I can't explain why it doesn't aggro when fighting the Patrons. Maybe our timing is such that we setup and kill them while the Flier is outside of aggro range. Not sure.]

[ QUOTE ]
My only problem was the they all seem to want to stay at range but GW (well, Mako too, but Scir and BS stayed at range when I moved from them)... so getting them close together so Taunt hits more than one is tricky, since only having one of those hallways clear didn't offer any ways to get out of LOS (the walls didn't seem to have any good points for that, but maybe I'm recalling incorrectly), and with the team around, there are only so many ways I could move them around safely.

I'll probably get better at it if I do it again, but it still is tricky.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heres the gist of how I clump the four AVs (you don't even need the top ramp cleared). You herd them up at the bottom of the ramp, near where they're originally standing:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
| |
|____________|

1 2 3 4



___ _____ __
X | | | |
| | | |
| | | |

X - Starting point

1 - Ghost Widow
2 - Scirroco
3 - Mako
4 - Black Scorpion</pre><hr />

I run a line West to East across the AVs, taunting or just hitting them with a melee attack, followed by a quick run to the East side of the middle barrier on the ramp:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre> | |
|____________|


1 2 3 4
X ---&gt; ---&gt; Y

___ _____ __
| | |Z |
| | | |
| | | |

X - Starting the pull by taunting GW
Y - Finished tagging all the AVs
Z - Where I end up.</pre><hr />

This will break LOS from the two AVs that can attack most from range (GW and Scir), forcing them to converge by location Z. (Mako and BS will generally close to melee by their own, but you can coax them with Taunt's -range debuff.)

They're generally not clumped tight enough by this point, so I move to the West side of the divider:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre> | |
|____________|


&lt;---
___ _____ __
| Y| |X |
| | | |
| | | |

X - Starting position
Y - Finishing position</pre><hr />

After you move to Y, the AVs will should be pretty well clumped together.

[ QUOTE ]
BS - Not much too him really. Just heavy bashing AV.
Mako - A little insane and runs alot. Has that Elude that makes him different. But, in short he is like BS.
Scir - Has very nasty AOEs and can wipe out a number of players in one hit. Plus those tornado pets of his. Personally, I feel he should be first because of that.
GW - Has the dreaded hold and her AOE heals

So if you buff the tank with status protection and he keeps GW taunted at range, GW is covered. Taunting covers Mako and BS, which leaves Scir. He can be taunted too, but the team has to watch his AOEs. In the end, pulling 4 Patrons get you GW at range trying to heal/hold, BS &amp; Mako punching on the tank, and Scir getting taken down. Plus there is no "worry" component. They are coming and that is that - no need to worry about if so-and-so is coming or not, they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, my experience mimics that pretty well with a couple exceptions. First, I bring GW into melee range with the other AVs. This allows me to hit all four with one Taunt and gets her debuffed by aoes (like Rad Infection). We normally take GW out first simply because, as annoying as Scirocco's Tornadoes are, they can't cause a Tank to go belly up in one hit. (While the hold itself may not kill you, the hold plus 4 AVs attacking? Very likely!) If it wasn't for that, I'd take Scirocco out first too.

Oh btw, Mako only has pseudo-Elude. It has a 30s duration and 60s recharge. [Mako.Elude], iirc.

Well, tactics will vary from team to team (depending members, ATs/sets present, etc). As for the one you're describing, the Tanker will Taunt from range (and use any ranged attacks they have to maintain aggro) while being buffed with +mez prot abilities (CM, Clarity, Thaw). The reason is GW has Dark Regen, which is a PBAoE that will give her a large heal per target hit. If she can repeatedly hit players with it, she is immortal. By Taunting her from range, she will resort only to ranged attacks - which Dark Regen is not - bypassing the large heal. Sometmes she'll try to close to melee, and it's at this time you'd have to back away. (Note: She has an ability to turn you intangible for ~30s, preventing you from effecting others. It's quite possible to lose aggro if you're hit by this. If you don't have many melee characters or you have a lot of +def buffers, you can avoid this and her hold, as well as engage her in melee. If she can't hit, she can't heal off you.)

Of the Patrons, Scirocco is the second most lethal. He has tornadoes that apply heavy -def, lots of energy damage, -recovery, and brutal cones. Keep these pointed away from squishies.

Black Scorpion and Mako are pretty standard melee fights. Mako has a couple cones, but nothing like Scirocco.


Recluse I generally taunt and run behind a pillar directly behind him and keep him there. Until the Orange Tower is down, just put Taunt on auto and keep an eye on your combat numbers. He'll have too much def (+100% to +150%) for you to reliably hit him. When the towers your team is taking down are almost destroyed, I pull Recluse into one of the corners. This way, when he spawns Banes they're nice and clumped, susceptible to things like Bonfire, Hurricane, Force Bubble, etc.

Medi Pow brings up a good point, you may get knocked around by Recluse is you don't have enough kb protection. (I'm not sure the MAG on his attacks, so I don't know how much is enough. (12 isn't enough either, my Fire Tanker with that much got knocked back by Recluse.) One of the towers provides +knockback, too, but I don't remember which.) The endurance drain on his ranged attacks are nasty, but again, in melee range he'll rarely use them. I generally bring a blue or two just in case.


Now I'm starting to ramble, so I'll stop there.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, you're making me feel all weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not you, Recluse is simply a beast with his towers up. (I believe Arcanaville said he was strong enough to take on, and defeat, the old Hamidon and all its mitos.)

[ QUOTE ]
Does Recluse have any odd-hitting attacks? I have Grey at roughly 20% to pscyhic and all positional defense, so I'm just wondering if Recluse has any of those annoying untyped or non-positional attack thingies. I thought they were all psychic, but I just wanted to be sure, since I had never heard anything on the subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

While the Red Tower is up, his KO Blow clone deals somewhere in the ballpark of 5800 damage (not a typo) before resists. So a Fire Tank with Tough would take ~1740 damage, and he can (and will) spam it - especially with the Blue Tower up. (His energy attacks hurt too, but thankfully he doesn't use them as often once you've closed to melee range.) The Blue Tower offers +30% tohit, so by yourself, he will still hit 95% of the time, hence the suggestion to get to 75% defense. (Your 20% def + PBU Fort + 1 t2 luck should peg you above 75%.)

I don't think they have any weird typing (they should all have a positional component), but you may want to double check in game. Go to ParagonWiki to get the attack names, then plug them into chat like this:

[Lord Recluse.Channelgun]

And you can look at things like recharge, etc. (The damage numbers will be way off, since they'll be using player AT mods, not AV mods.)

[ QUOTE ]
STF is still the only TF I haven't done, and while I have heard a lot about it, it would be fun to experience it.

[/ QUOTE ]

:O

[ QUOTE ]
I'll be sure to stock grab some oranges and purples in my SG for that last mission, so Grey Pilgrim will be able to take the heat those AVs dish out- especially Recluse with the towers. Do I need to stock breakfree thingies for Ghost Widow, or what?

I had her drop the "hold of love" on me in the new Daedelus arc, so I know it's not fun. Though I did get to nuke her and her spawn with RoTP, so there was some fun to it, at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few tips if you're going to be tanking the STF:

*) Ghost Widow - Don't bother with break frees. Her hold is MAG100, so you'd need to eat roughly half a tray of breakfrees to escape. (An Emp, Thermal, or Sonic spamming CM/Thaw/Clarity will prevent it (stacked 8-9 times).) Other than that, it's best to stay at 45% defense to floor her chance of landing with it.

*) When tanking Recluse, you'll want to keep yourself at 75% def while the Blue Tower is up, and res cap to s/l while the Ret Tower is up. T2 inspirations are your friend! They really stretch out the 'ole insp tray. You may be able to slack on def a bit after the Red Tower drops, but not too much. Recluse can break your status protection if he Jabs you too many times in a row. (That was a rude awakening, let me tell you.)


[edit: Oh, apologies for giving unsolicited advice. I probably shouldn't just butt in like that.]

Wow, very nice work there. It's funny, most of the AV / big game soloers I see are SR, so they tend to have a pretty severe hp yoyo effect. What struck me when watching yours was how much more stable it was. Several times I caught myself thinking "he'll probably heal soon... no? Maybe now... no? Okay okay, now... There it is!" Granted, most of those fights were very s/l heavy opponents, but still interesting to watch.

Oh, I can solve one riddle you had with Bobcat - how she kept hitting you. Two reasons, really. The biggest reason is Follow-Up. If it works like it does for players, it would provide her with a damage and tohit buff. (As a tohit buff, it also wouldn't be mitigated by your def resistance.) The second part of the equation is Slash, which debuffs your defense. Before you die, you'll note she starts hitting you with both, and continues to hit very regularly.

Good luck with your future AV attempts. It's great to see someone pushing the edge with Invuln.

Thanks for the disclaimer, I think that will be quite useful.

Of course... *looks at the length of the disclaimer again* damn! It's almost as if the spreadsheet as it's own EULA now! Hah!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This may be true for some people who like to dig in and explore a bit, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if some download it and take what's presented at face value. More dangerous is those same people trying to propagate it as fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've been reading the Inv thread in the Training Room.

[Edit for clarity.]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but I've seen it done before that thread.

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, the reason its a spreadsheet and not just a table of numbers is because I'm assuming that most of the people interested in such a thing would not hesitate to modify the numbers to reflect their own analysis assumptions.

[/ QUOTE ]

This may be true for some people who like to dig in and explore a bit, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if some download it and take what's presented at face value. More dangerous is those same people trying to propagate it as fact.

There's not much (if anything) you can do to prevent that, of course.

[edit: Yeah, I know, that's a little cynical.]

I'm currently at work, so no access to OO. The version of Excel installed (11.8211.8202 SP3) has the same problem, though. You can get around it by manually typing a value in.

I'll check OO when I get home, but I don't remember it being an issue.

Something else to keep in mind... look at the slotting for Dark Regen (cells U145 and U149). It's assuming 2 heal SOs and 2 rech SOs. That leaves 2 slots for acc and end reduc - which is very light on both. I think a more standard slotting for Dark Regen would be 2 acc/end/rech, dropping the heal enhancement entirely... at least until IOs.

Also, don't forget to change the level factor for WP. WP is stronger against even cons than up level foes because the purple patch starts to diminish RttC's tohit debuff. (Which, I might add, Arcana's spreadsheet assumes is fully slotted for tohit debuff. I don't think I've ever seen a build with RttC's regen and tohit debuff at the ED softcap.)