Redbone

Just to dot the "i"s and cross the "t"s, I rechecked the FAQ and talked to my new friend at GameStop. The FAQ doesn't say at this point and GameStop doesn't know (yet, they might, but I kinda doubt they will as a rule, individuals working there may find out though).

Well, personal feelings aside, it is sensible for the Dev's to make them Vet Rewards eventually. It follows every precedent we have thus far, it sooths troubled brows over missing a preorder bonus, it costs the Devs close to nothing to do and they're always looking for "the next Vet Reward."

Just to clarify, at this point, the natural direction of any theoretical "other preorders" would be more enhancements. These are Dam/Rech+Proc, Best Buy could get Acc/End+Proc, Amazon could get Acc/Rech+Proc and HHGreggs could get Dam/End+Proc and Barnes and Noble could get End/Rech+Proc. There's many combinations possible that would make each agreement just as "good" as any other mechanically and would keep the retailers happy. They could also keep the Dam/Rech enhancements but swap the types procs around (Best Buy's procs buff self, Amazon's Debuff the target and so on).

As for awarding them as a Vet Reward, I see no reason they couldn't be offered as a VERY high level Vet Reward in a similar way to how the Temp Powers are, you get a choice of them, selecting a "set" based on the retailer which locks out the others to that particular alt. With a system like that, they could easily milk a Vet Reward out of each preorder (you still select, but you'd need the same number of Vet Reward awards as there were retailers to claim them all on one alt) but yes, it ocudl get unbalencing in the low-level game quickly to award more than one or two (two because the preorder folks get one right off the bat). The only thing they could not do as a Vet Reward is offer more than 2 "sets" of these types of enhancements to award instantly upon your first login, because there's not enough room in the enhancement tray for more than two groups. They could also make each "set" unique to a power (so if you slot one of them, you can't slot a second of it's group, or the opposite, you slot it in one you can't slot a different "set" of these types into it.

There are other conceivable ways to offer "the same" mechanical benefits for other preorders and loads of conceivable ways to make them Vet Rewards.

You beat me to it before I could edit that into my above post. It specifically says: "nor are there any incentives for preordering it at retail." It does NOT say "nor will there be any incentives for preordering it at retail." (emphasis mine on both)

The first is a statement about the situation at that time (February of this year), the second is a statement about every point AFTER that time (from then until release). That is a massive difference.

Just out of curiosity, I checked Posi's postings from the last year. There is no such post in the archives from the last year. in fact he has only 29 posts total in the last year. He has only 9 posts on anything even close to Going Rogue including con appearances. For comparison he has 11 Posts on I16 (mostly on Super-Sidekicking).

So if it was said, it was either not said by Posi or not said on the boards.

Edit: The closest thing to your remembered statement I can find is from Avatea:

"Only the separate City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion will be available for prepurchase. The Complete Collection will not be available for prepurchase, nor are there any incentives for preordering it at retail."

However, this statement is from February 18th and is still factually correct as of that date. There were no incentives for preordering at retail. The statement does not say "there will not be any incentives" just that there ARE none.

Some snippage in there earlier, but the context remains.

While the idea of "we bought with incomplete information" could be viewed as valid it simply doesn't stand up the way you're arguing it. At the time of your purchase you did have complete information and the Dev's were careful to say they had no plans for a preorder. You acted on that information. However, a month later NEW information has been added, information that didn't exist at the time of the original deal. Again, this is not the Devs fault, new information is just that, new. they had no idea anything of the sort would happen and THEY acted on the information they had. Those being the case, you cannot fault them, or make demands on them based on a "lack of information" at purchase since you had all the information that existed at the time. The information they gave was neither incomplete nor incorrect, it was complete and accurate at the time.

An analogy. I sell you a used sketchbook. Half the pages are taken up by someone else's scribblings and no one has hear dof the artist. A month later, the artist in question becomes the hottest thing around and promptly is run over by a bus. His works are now worth a fortune, and his early works, which are in the sketchbook, are worth their weight in antimatter. I sold to you and we both acted on full and complete information at the time. Neither of us could have known the artist would become famous and die driving up the price of his work. I have no right to and you are under no obligation to give me a cut of the earnings from the sketchbook. I sold and you bought with factual and complete information at the time, but new information has changed the nature of the deal well after the fact.

If you feel "tricked" that is not NCSoft's problem. They did not make a mistake, if anything they cut a good deal for promotional time and space. They acted in good faith and so did you. That an influx of new information, unknown and unknowable at the time, has changed your perception of the deal is unfortunate, but it does not constitute any form of "trickery" on their part.

From the three I visited yesterday, the September date is NOT a valid release date and is just a filler in their systems. However, that being a definately true statement is put into question by the fact that NONE of the three knew about the GR Preorder promotion until, at one location, an employee looked it up on his iPhone.

Basically GameStop is being gameStop and not being extremely helpful to their employees by having the computers updated and ready for the promotion when it was announced and/or put on their own website.

All that said, they may have pushed it back, but September 1st wouldn't be the date, it's a Wednesday and not a standard software release day from distributors.

Because if you can buy them elsewhere they are not "exclusive" and that's part of the deal with GameStop, an exclusive item (meaning you can't get it elsewhere). These exclusive periods vary in length, but you can bet part of the agreement is just how long the item cannot be given away or sold in any other form. Even if the Devs wanted to give it to everyone (or sell it) they're contractually obligated not to do so for a set period (possibly indefinately, but that's doubtful). That's how retailers work these things to get you to come to their specific location to buy from them and only them.

While I admit their not knowing they were going to offer a preorder is a problem, they cannot be faulted for not telling you about something that didn't exist. When they were selling CoV they never informed us it would be free to everyone a few years later, when they released the CoH and CoV preorders they didn't tell everyone they would be Vet Rewards 2 years after they came out. They didn't tell us because they had no idea. The same applies here. You were given the same information they had at the time just like we're being given all the information they have at this time. As far as we know, next week Best Buy will get a bug up their rear to do a bonus too and in a month they'll have one as well, but right now, such a thing doesn't exist and they've said as much.

You're suffering the buyers remorse common with "early adopters" who see their neat-o gadget they paid a premium price for quickly surpassed by the newer, cheaper version. It's the same impulse people get when they see the game they preordered a year ahead of time and dropped $80 for on release after camping out in line overnight fall to $19.99 with a hundred on the shelf (or worse, drop to half price within a week of release).

You got your bonus, if you want the other, you have to shell out again. That's the sad truth of the early adopter. You judged the prepurchase bonus to be worth the price and went for it, bully for you, a lot of people agreed.

A subset of the population decided it wasn't worth it and have been patient and now that patience has paid an unexpected dividend (a tiny one, honestly, as most will use the mousepad more than the actual enhancements). To go back and try to renegotiate "the deal," one you were perfectly happy with 48 hours ago, is simply not going to fly with the corporation. You don't see the preorder folks demanding the powersets be unlocked when they preorder because that's not part of that particular deal, or demanding that they be given 2 additional free months because they missed out on the head-start with the powers. You also didn't see the Devs tossing out free months when they gave away a far more expensive product many of us had bought (the CoV collector's edition).

I feel for you, I really do, but you got exactly what was honestly described by the seller. Your purchase hasn't been devalued in the slightest and no refund is required, plus you have already gotten use out of your purchase (unless you'd be willing to have your account rolled back to the date of purchase and even then you've still gotten value out of it via the enjoyment of it).

I know this sounds a lot harsher than intended, but it is nothing but a dispassionate look at the situation. Register your discomfort with the situation, but don't expect the company to do a thing about it, especially outlandish things like your propose, they're within their rights and responsibilities on this one.

It is this (with different art) : http://store.razerzone.com/store/raz...ctID.169419500

CoH and CoV both had physical Pre-Order Boxes on shelves (in fact, I still occasionally find a store with CoV preorder boxes, and when Circut City liquidated, both the nearest ones had dozens in bins trying to clearance them for a buck each) so it was a natural mistake to make. While it was in the original announcement that the code was on the receipt with the instructions, it was the guys at one of the GameStops (the one who looked it up on his iPhone and suggested I wait until their system updates before preordering) that pointed it out to me.

Earlier, I made mention that anyone who had prepurchased check to make positive the preorder code and the Complete edition code was compatable with the prepurchase code, but a redname didn't respond to it, so that's still really good advice.

If that's the problem you're having, you're jumping the gun on it.

First off no preorder was EVER in an item pack, they were free bonuses for preordering and then, years later, Vet Rewards. The CoH preorder wasn't made available as a Vet Reward for something like 2 and a half years from its initial release and then only as a Vet Reward at the 12 month mark. The CoV Preorder helmets were made Vet Rewards around two years after they were released and then as a 51 month Vet Reward. Now, I admit this is from memory, but I'm at least close on the timing.

At this point, it is impossible to say that the GR Preorder is a break from what happened in the past, since not enough time has passed to reasonably assume they will not be released to everyone in the same way previous preorders were and every reason to think they may be.

Remember, at the time of the CoV Preorder there was no Vet Reward program so no one could have guessed that those preorders would ever be available in any other form since the CoH preorders had never been made available again. As far as anyone knew there were "no apparent plans to make them available" in any other way (and the helmets were ONE only, you couldn't apply other preorder codes after the first and get the bonus).

Now, when we pass the 84 month vet reward, you could reasonably show some mild concern. If we get to the 96 month reward you can reasonably get a bit miffed. When we get to the 108 month one and it's still not shown up, this might be a valid point.

For those who were around, active on the forums and have a long enough memory, some of these same types of complaints were being made about the helmets being different for different locations. All those problems vanished when everyone got them, even though it takes 51 months to do so.

Every edition except the CoH Deluxe/DVD edition has had a digital "item pack" that went along with release (although I am now blanking if the CoV CE had any sort of item pack, I don't think it did because of the physical goodies, but I could be wrong). Even the CoH DVD Edition had an item pack you could buy (it cost $19.99 or so with shipping way back when) and was not digital, it was a physical package sent to your home because of the heroclix and comic book with a card that contained your add-on code. So far the GR goodies are precisely like every previous edition from the preorder to the "exclusive items." The only difference this time is there were two sets of perks, one for prepurchasing and one for preordering and the one for prepurchasing cannot be put in a pack or made into a Vet Reward after release.

From what i've been able to find out there is no "preorder box." It's a code printed on a receipt with instructions how to get the items. So, once it's over, no chance to get them again via gobs of boxes left over (I had several from a number of different stores when CoV exited the preorder phase).

Might be useful on a lowbie brute and then at level 20 either respec or swap builds and "faux respec" with new enhancers and slotting.

I can easily see them using BoP with any zero-effort items. We've had a "hidden" version of it in the game forever and a day (Vanguard Merits and Reward Merits) so I don't see them not using it with an "exploitable,"* limited item that is attained by a subset of players without any effort beyond logging in.

*And yes, it can be argued it's not classically exploitable, but it is outside the design of the original game that players have loads of enhancements (enough to slot in every slot) that modify two aspects of a power (plus a proc) from level 1 onwards, especially since it can be done at virtually no cost to one subset of players and, eventualy, minimal cost thanks to the easy of creation for the rest.

That assumed you local Walmart even had it or knew what it was. That exclusive was a bit of a comedy of errors and stupidity in a number of areas. Three of our local ones didn't get it for 2 weeks and then even when they had it, STILL said they didn't have it, and would look you straight in the eye, with you showing them the box from their shelves and STILL claim not to have it in one case.

Of course, the entertainment value alone on that one may have been worth it in my case.

And let's not forget that every other store specific "freebie" promotions (and in this case the original CoH preorder) eventually were given away for free as Vet Rewards. It wouldn't be a bad bet that these will eventually find a spot in the Vet Reward rotation just like the sprints and helmets were.

Well, I imagine these bind instantly for a slightly different reason that most soulbound items. Every new character gets all of them. Their binding stops people from creating a character, skipping the tutoiral, mailing them to Alt X, deleting new character, making a new character, lather, rinse, repeat.

If this thing is even marginally like the Destructor, it is not a mouse pad, it is a weapon disguised as a mousepad. I am not kidding, that thing is like a giant, extremely thin axe blade. You could decapitate people with it. It's so dangerous, it has to be packed in a zippered, padded case to keep it from randomly killing people who handle it.

Well, that one is going in the notebook for later use.

It wouldn't be a bad idea for you (or anyone planning to take this course of action) to contact Customer Service just to be sure all the codes are compatable on one account. It would be a real problem if you prepurchased and that "locked out" the GS Preorder code and/or the Complete Collection Box Set Code. While I doubt it would, it is possible and there is a history with preorder codes from previous releases were exclusive, you couldn't apply all the CoV preordercodes and get the goodies, for example (I had access about 3 months after release to three different store's preorder codes for CoV and ended up giving them away randomly).

To be completely fair, the FAQ has the statement:
"Can I preorder City of Heroes Going Rogue?
City of Heroes Going Rogue is not available for preorder from NCsoft.com. The expansion is only available for prepurchase.

Some of our retail partners may offer their own preorder programs, which are not managed by NCsoft."

(Edited in)AND

"What is the difference between prepurchasing and preordering?
If you prepurchase, you are buying the City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion pack from NCsoft.com. You will be able to access the Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning Power Sets immediately, instead of waiting until the official release this summer.

If you preorder, you are placing an early reserve for the City of Heroes Going Rogue Complete Collection through one of our retail partners. These early reserve programs are not managed by NCsoft and may have different pricing and incentives. Furthermore, you will not have access to the Dual Pistols or Demon Summoning Power Sets until City of Heroes Going Rogue officially launches." (end Edit Add)

Which would lead one to think NCSoft had no plans to offer any "ingame goodies" with any preorders that came up, and they may have had no such plans until Gamestop (and maybe others, we don't know yet) proposed some (this is the first time I can recall a "3rd Party Goodie" being included in CoH in the form of the desktop).

So, yeah, I can see where some people would be disappointed just as much as I can see where NCSoft hasn't really gone against that statement (this thing is sponsored in part by Razer).