Radionuclide

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I don't recall them saying that about the badges. I do know they don't intend for one character to experience all the content. For example, there are numerous times where, if you do one contact, you are locked out of another contact.

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My memory may be fuzzy. But, I am sure this has been stated by a Dev in another one of these threads about Isolator. But, I can barely remember yesterday so, I may be wrong about one of the numberous threads relating to this issue over the past year. Regardless of that, actions certainly indicate that since some cannot get the Isolator or Special event badges.

I could also argue that badges are content. But, I won't take the easy way out.

--Rad

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OK.... I just feel strongly about the opprotunity of the Isolator badge. It stands there mocking me like a carrot on a string behind a glass. not to mention, Tho shalt not covet thy neighbors badge.

I just addressed that point that we were not "MENT" to have all badges. It IS my desire to get all of them even if it takes me to the end of my days. I have such a shallow life.

Ok just kidding

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SWDamocles, the sad thing is we are arguing for the same thing. The devs have said that one character is not meant to have all the badges. I just think it is a mistake on their part.

--Rad

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You still have not shown me a badge I can not earn, except the Isolator.

Set match

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Did you read either post? I said all of them could be obtained using the sidekick system ... in both posts. Nor did I say solo. Try to do the same thing with a team where all members that were higher then the level of those zones before the respective zone was added. This is my point.

These zones are designed to prevent higher level characters from getting the badge without the assistance of a level appropriate hero. This to me at least, is reinforcement of the idea that one character is not meant to get all badges. If you don't agree with that opinion that is fine. But, I don't understand the point you are trying so hard to prove.

--Rad

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A post-I2 character, started before the halloween event can earn every badge, including Isolator.

A pre-I2 character can also do so, with the exception of Isolator.

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I never said that was not the case.

--Rad

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Um... just what are you two arguing about?

You both agree that pre I2 toons cannot get isolator, & that it is possible to get all other (hero) badges on any (hero) toon in some fashion.

Just wondering...

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Sorry... answering the bolded text above. You seem to be arguing that one character is not meant to get all the badges, yet any post I2/pre Haloween character had/has the ability to earn every single available badge.

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I don't disagree with that. I conceed that point. Though I never said otherwise. Hopefully, with that concession we can move on.

--Rad

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Um... just what are you two arguing about?

You both agree that pre I2 toons cannot get isolator, & that it is possible to get all other (hero) badges on any (hero) toon in some fashion.

Just wondering...

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I was wondering the same thing which is why I indicated that I don't understand the point he is trying prove.

--Rad

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You still have not shown me a badge I can not earn, except the Isolator.

Set match

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Did you read either post? I said all of them could be obtained using the sidekick system ... in both posts. Nor did I say solo. Try to do the same thing with a team where all members that were higher then the level of those zones before the respective zone was added. This is my point.

These zones are designed to prevent higher level characters from getting the badge without the assistance of a level appropriate hero. This to me at least, is reinforcement of the idea that one character is not meant to get all badges. If you don't agree with that opinion that is fine. But, I don't understand the point you are trying so hard to prove.

--Rad

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A post-I2 character, started before the halloween event can earn every badge, including Isolator.

A pre-I2 character can also do so, with the exception of Isolator.

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I never said that was not the case.

--Rad

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that all badges are not meant to be obtained on one character.

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Rad,

Your logic is faulty. My 50 Controller, created in I1 has done all special events and received all the limited badges. With that being said, there are some badges like Charmed that I do not have, but I am working on it. Now for the point. Outside of the Isolator Badge, which would take an act of Congress to get, name a badge can I not get?

If you have an answer to that I will agree with your point that heros can not get all badges by design. This is the best reason to support an opportunity to get the Isolator.

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It has been explicility said by both GMs and Devs that badges are not meant to be obtained by one character. They do not flat out prevent you from getting any badge on a pre-i2 character save isolator. Nor did I not say it cannot be done. In fact quite the contrary:

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These badges are still obtainable through the sidekick system. Which is why you don not hear the same type of ruckus over them.

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But, here is the answer to your challenge within the context of my post. Attempt to get the follow badges without the help of another hero within level range of the Trial or Task Force on a level 50 controller, Pre-issue 2.

Cavern of Transendance
Honorary Peacebringer - got it
Burkholder's Bane - got it
10 times the Victor - got it
Cabolist - got it



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Rad

I guess what you ment and what you said are 2 differnt things. If you ment not all badges can be earned by single player, you did not include the important word...."Solo". Of course you can't earn those on your own, nor can you earn any giant monster badges, mentor badges & healing badges and for that matter you cant get the "Top Dog" badge if you can jump or fly.

What the dev or GMs say means little in the point. The fact is you are flat out wrong. With enough desire and play time, my 50 can earn every badge, which some would require working with a team. I knew this to be true when I saw a 50 lvl Scrapper with all the healing badges... got it through the Medical Pool. I'm sure it took a very long time.

You still have not shown me a badge I can not earn, except the Isolator.

Set match

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Did you read either post? I said all of them could be obtained using the sidekick system ... in both posts. Nor did I say solo. Try to do the same thing with a team where all members that were higher then the level of those zones before the respective zone was added. This is my point.

These zones are designed to prevent higher level characters from getting the badge without the assistance of a level appropriate hero. This to me at least, is reinforcement of the idea that one character is not meant to get all badges. If you don't agree with that opinion that is fine. But, I don't understand the point you are trying so hard to prove.

--Rad

Edit: Oh and the ones you indicated that you got. You got those within that context right? Without a level appropriate hero to start the TF? Because I have them too. But, all were with the help of a hero within level range.

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that all badges are not meant to be obtained on one character.

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Rad,

Your logic is faulty. My 50 Controller, created in I1 has done all special events and received all the limited badges. With that being said, there are some badges like Charmed that I do not have, but I am working on it. Now for the point. Outside of the Isolator Badge, which would take an act of Congress to get, name a badge can I not get?

If you have an answer to that I will agree with your point that heros can not get all badges by design. This is the best reason to support an opportunity to get the Isolator.

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It has been explicility said by both GMs and Devs that badges are not meant to be obtained by one character. They do not flat out prevent you from getting any badge on a pre-i2 character save isolator. Nor did I not say it cannot be done. In fact quite the contrary:

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These badges are still obtainable through the sidekick system. Which is why you don not hear the same type of ruckus over them.

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But, here is the answer to your challenge within the context of my post. Attempt to get the follow badges without the help of another hero within level range of the Trial or Task Force on a level 50 controller, Pre-issue 2.

Cavern of Transendance
Honorary Peacebringer
Burkholder's Bane
10 times the Victor
Cabolist

My point is that they should allow players to obtain all badges including Isolator as it could be seen as another form of that stickiness. They have expressed the view that they are not meant to be collected by one character and I was showing an example of it. The major difference between the previous Trials and Task forces is that a group higher level hero can start them without a level appropriate hero. This cannot be said in those areas.

--Rad

Edit: Added answer to question.

While I understand their reasoning. Creating more characters may keep you playing the game longer going through the content multiple times. Hopefully, with redesigned missions, content (badges include) you may have missed, and content added since you levelled the last character to the cap.

There is a few flaws in that line of thinking from my point of view. They could also reinforce "stickiness" for a lack of a better term. To foster in your customers and attachment to their existing character(s) (honestly the more, the better) to keep them playing and paying. There is several ways they have and can do this.
[*] Customization. Cryptic has excelled in the options given it's players from costumes (mupltiple costumes at that), power selection and power enchancement. Your "look" more then likely is your own.
[*] Biography. Standard thing in MMOs. But, a factor in stickiness none the less. If a player spends time creating an involved background, they will be less likely to leave.
[*] Non-level dependant Teaming. Seems like such a small thing really but the SK/LK/EX/ML system is ingenous. One does not have to roll a new character to play with freinds just joining the game. They can team and do each players missions.
[*] End Game. If the promise of the Legend system holds true. And it is something that is fun and rewarding for level 50s. Something that is not a "one and done" thing. With true replayablity and remaining fun each time through. This will be a great sticky.
[*] Badges. (Returning to topic. Well, sort of. This is still overarching). The badge system for those you do collect them is another stickiness. With that ,completionist mentality most collectors have. As a developer just adding badges each issue keeps them going back to get them all. But, the more you prevent that collector from getting every one of those badges you are losing that stickiness. I don't think they see badges this way when they (and it has been said by Devs as well as GMs) that all badges are not meant to be obtained on one character. And even some badges that have been introduced after issue 2 reflect that stance. There are several examples including those created for Special Events or those given for Trials and Task Forces in the recent zones. Look at those that are in the Hallows, Striga Isle, and Croatoa. All of them require you to go through the content of the zone before they are unlocked. This prevents a group of badge collectors of a level higher then the zone from getting the task force started because they cannot go through the content in that zone. These badges are still obtainable through the sidekick system. Which is why you don not hear the same type of ruckus over them.

:auses for the obligatory; Can you describe the ruckus?::

Those in the new zones are unlike the original trials and task forces and those added with the shadow shard. I understand why they did it that way again. It is self contained and having to complete the content before they are unlocked allows that trial or task force be the end of the story arc of the zone as a whole. This is a great idea and I do think it should not be changed but, it illustrates my point of the stance.

This is post is much broader then the topic as a whole and for that I apologize. I will now return you to your regularly scheduled Isolater debate, already in progress...

--Rad

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I would love to have that badge on my main. For those who ask: Yes it is different from the halloween badge or the winter badge. Most of those asking had their character BEFORE any badges ever existed. They did not miss it because they did not take the time to do it or because they chose to not do the outbreak. If you do not have the halloween badge it is because you started the character AFTER they were removed or that you did not bother collecting them.

This being said because of what the badge says I have difficulty seeing how they could let you get it later. After all it does say that you STARTED your carrer with a bang.

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Our heroes travel to other dimensions. Time travel could be in our future .... or our past... Oh I've gone cross-eyed.

Though I proposed a solution to address another issue before in this thread. But, it works for this as well.

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Simply solution to that.

You leave the text for the badge obtained in Outbreak alone. You allow someone to obtain the badge, you use the X times the victor coding to offer two badges from this mission. In short this will create 3 versions of the badge

1) Is the one we have now.
2) Is for those that got that badge in outlook and reflects that they defeated them again.
3) Is for those that did not.

It reflects the actions taken by those who were able and did obtain the badge and allow those that did not the opportunity to get it.

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--Rad

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You are, of course, free to disagree, Rad; that doesn't change the fact that no really valid reason has been given yet for why characters who were around before I2 deserve the opportunity to obtain all of the badges, and those who came later should not.

Now, me--I don't care one way or the other if Isolator is made available; I simply believe that all players should have the same opportunities.

Those who are saying, "Give us Isolator, but keep the event badges off-limits, because they're different" are practicing elitism, pure and simple--and elitism tainted with more than a whiff of hypocrisy.

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The is also no valid reason for it to be denied either. I have no problem with the event badges being made available. I agree with you. I think all players should have the same opportunities. This of course also includes Isolator.

I was however pointing out distinct differences between those badges as the system exists currently. But, I have never once said I would was againt other players getting any of the event badges they may have missed.

--Rad

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And don't forget the long-time players without isolator on their mains because it didn't exist that don't want it to be made available because it cheapens it for the characters that do have it.

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Simply solution to that.

You leave the text for the badge obtained in Outbreak alone. You allow someone to obtain the badge, you use the X times the victor coding to offer two badges from this mission. In short this will create 3 versions of the badge

1) Is the one we have now.
2) Is for those that got that badge in outlook and reflects that they defeated them again.
3) Is for those that did not.

It reflects the actions taken by those who were able and did obtain the badge and allow those that did not the opportunity to get it.

I don't begrude those that got Isolator. They are certainly deserving of their accomplishment. I just want an opportunity to do so on my pre-I2 character.

--Rad

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Ah but in all those cases of the events those are created after badge was available to be obtained. That is worth repeating they are created after the badge was available to be obtained. Isolator is different in that characters created before are denied but, the badge itself is still available. Whereas, with those events those created before the event could obtain the badge by participating in the event. But, we have covered this before.

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Well, yes, and the logic is still weak and still boils down to, "It's different because it's different." And it still boils down to a convenient rationalization for those who believe that they should have an opportunity at all the badges in the game, as older players, but that newer players should not.

The event badges are still in the game. The code hasn't been removed. There's simply no way, at present, for a character to acquire those badges--just as there's no way for your level 50 to acquire Isolator.

The "difference" is invented, and certainly not a particularly valid reason for claiming that one should be awarded and the other should not.

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I disagree.

--Rad

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But I still stand by my statement that a “lot” of people would be happy to get Isolator on their pre-i2 characters. I can do that with great confidence, since after all the word “lot” is slippery and doesn’t have a pre-defined meaning, so no one can prove me wrong.

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Hah!! I *can* prove you wrong. I know a guy named Lot. I asked him what he thought a bout this, and do you know what he said??

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A badge?? [censored] would I want a badge for!!! Now stop bothering me you jack[censored]. Can't you see I am a pillar of salt!!

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Hehehehe

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Point of contention. If you knew a guy named Lot, he would not be a pillar of salt. That would be his wife. I believe you were talking to the wrong person.

--Rad

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Oh and to clarify. I do not mean on another character created after badges went live. I do not mean deleting and re-creating as this is another form of being a new character. One created after Issue 2. This has been my point over and over again. And this is where we disagree.

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I beg to differ, we do agree. I dont think any toon created after the 1yr anv deserves that badge, nor any toon after the halloween event, nor any toon created post any event. Isolator is only different in that its placement was in the tutorial. So how do you overcome that, simple... create a new toon. No toon post the 1yr anv will ever have that badge, just like no toon created pre-I2 will have isolator.

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Ah but in all those cases of the events those are created after badge was available to be obtained. That is worth repeating they are created after the badge was available to be obtained. Isolator is different in that characters created before are denied but, the badge itself is still available. Whereas, with those events those created before the event could obtain the badge by participating in the event. But, we have covered this before.

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There are a large number of wants coming from the customers. ustomer satisfaction also includes deciding what wants the customer has will get fufilled.

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Actually I believe the phrase is " Needs -vs- Desires "

People on this thread "Desire" the Isolator badge, however CoX "Needs" more content that is relevant to the ENTIRE player base, not just satisfying the "Desires" of a select few. As stated by others the man power it'd take to code a way to obtain Isolator is taking away from the "Needs" of the ENTIRE player base. And as Ive stated over and over again, those who "Desired" to have Isolator very well could have earned it at anytime (now or in the past)

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Really I could have done it at any time on my existing character? Please enlighten me how?

Oh and to clarify. I do not mean on another character created after badges went live. I do not mean deleting and re-creating as this is another form of being a new character. One created after Issue 2. This has been my point over and over again. And this is where we disagree.

If the devs waited to introduce content based on the needs of the ENTIRE player base, it would never happen. There would have been no reason to provide PvP. There would be no reason to build a skills system. Why do I say this? Because, neither one of those is needed by the ENTIRE player base. In fact, I can guarantee you that they are players who have never done PvP (and no, I am not talking about me) and there will be those that won't use skills when they are released (again probably not me - but that remains to be seen). I mention these specifically, because PvP is an optional system just like badges. All indications from the devs is that skills will be optional is well.

You will never get Beef-Cake, Mna_Grok, you and I to agree on this issue. We are not going to convience each other. And that is expdentionally more accurate for the ENTIRE player base on most issues.

--Rad

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People that are for Isolator being introduced keep harking on the fact that its customer service. Well I have a question for these ppl. What did you do when....

1. The nerfed Regen into oblivion.
2. The nerfed Fire Tanks (esp Burn)
3. They introduced Supression
4. Introduced ED
5. All but stopped Dreck Farming
6. All but stopped Kraken Farming

Sure there are individuals who are still upset over any # of these changes (and many more) but they have learned to accept it and moved on. Its no different from Isolator.

Why not make a thread saying that the customer base wants ED removed and since its customer satisfaction they should do it!!! Why havent the devs removed ED since its customer satisfaction? Answer that.

There are numerous examples as to why sometimes a business must not pay attention to customer desires and instead take its own course of action. Did ED ruin this game? Absolutely not. Will not introducing a way to obtain Isolator ruin this game? Absolutely Not.

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The reverse also applies. All of those changed, while made some customers, upset were also a result of complaints and suggestions. Diministing returns on enchancements was a player suggestion. ED may not have been the implementation that was in mind. But, it was a result of a suggestion. And while the devs cannot please everyone, and they may choose not to give isolator. That does not mean we cannot ask. Just like there were and are requests for ED to be rolled back.

To answer your individual questions about individual events.

1. The nerfed Regen into oblivion.
Nothing. I did not have a regen and could not provide an informed opinion.

2. The nerfed Fire Tanks (esp Burn)
See my answer for regen

3. They introduced Supression
Thought is was a good compromise from the complaints about giving penaties to all other travel powers but, fly who already had them.

4. Introduced ED
My initial reaction is that this was overkill given the changes made with Issue 5. That changed when I played with ED and did not see much of an impact on my playstyle. I could not do all that I did before but, it was far from the earth shattering event I thought it would be.

5. All but stopped Dreck Farming
Did this a little bit but, found it boring. It was no loss in my opinion. Though I realized others have felt differently. To each their own. I did not complain that they were doing it nor did I argue that it should have been taken away.

6. All but stopped Kraken Farming
Never did this one. Though It seems a bit more exciting then Dreck from my point of view. To each their own. I did not complain that they were doing it nor did I argue that it should have been taken away.

--Rad

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Stupid Photobucket site is down for maintenance, and I don't have direct links to the pictures ATM.



Edit - Working now.

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She is indeed a cutie. Just look at those chocolate covers cheeks. How could you not think otherwise?

--Rad

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Jumping in on the Egg McMuffin analagy here.

It doesn't quite work for me either. In theory, I can come back to McDonalds any time I want (during breakfast hours) and get an Egg McMuffin. McDonalds is telling me, however, that since I ate breakfast there once prior to 1973, when the Egg McMuffin was introduced, that I am no longer allowed back in thier restaraunt to purchase one.

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Ummm, no. That is quite an exaggeration there.

To switch it around, it is the following:

You buy a regular hamburger and start eating it. You get a couple of bites in and then see that they have started putting cheese on them as well. You, liking cheese, want to have cheese on your hamburger, so you go back to the counter and ask for cheese. Unfortunately, they say no because you have already started eating your hamburger. However, you can get a new hamburger with cheese (let's call it a cheeseburger for lack of a better term ) and enjoy that.

However, in the time between buying your burger and buying the cheeburger, they have run out of some condiments, so if you get the new cheeseburger, you won't have access to all of the same condiments as you had on your burger.

PS. Apologies for the previous unclear analogy, I am still recovering from my daughters 1st bday party. See pictures in the cake link in my sig.


PPS. Why yes, I am trolling for compliments on my cute daughter.

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Yumm hamburgers. I said I was hungry. Anywho...

All I would have to do is get the cheese burger and apply said cheese to previous hamburger. So now I have a hamburger + cheese + previous condiments. I am more then willing to do the same and move Isolator from another character to my collector.

Oh and linky no worky on the sig.

--Rad

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Pre-I2, the badge didn't exist and there was no way for your toon to get the badge. So you are angry that the devs aren't allowing you to get something that you couldn't get when your toon was at the appropriate level for it. To me, that is like trying to get a Sausage and Egg McMuffin at 6PM and throwing a fit about it.

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HAHA! Thanks for the laugh. That was a funny analogy. This is not sarcasm. I thought it was funny. Text of course is hard to tell, so thought I would clarify.

However, I do feel obligated to reply in kind. In that same situation, all I would need to do to get my Sausage and Egg McMuffin, would be to wait until it is served. I would not need to leave and comeback (The equivalent of re-rolling in this analogy). I could call friends and family in to get theirs but, that does not help with mine (Like getting the badge on another character). All I would need to do is wait. And after they did begin to sell breakfast, I would simply walk up to the counter and order one. They would not refuse me because I was in the building prior to when they were sold. All I am asking is "Is it time for me to get a Sausage and Egg McMuffin, yet?"

--Rad

EDIT: To fix typos and clarify.

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And to complete your analogy, each day is starting over again. So by getting it the next day, you are re-rolling.

Or at least that is my point of view.

In the end, there are two points of view to this discussion, and the chances that they will meet are slim to none. I would like to thank those on both sides that have stayed civil.

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Nope. It is a year later and I am still in this place. Because I have not re-rolled my character. Sure I've called in friends and family. But, me? I'm still waiting for my Sausage and Egg McMuffin. I'm tired and hungry.

--Rad

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I certainly don't want to be accused of deleting any of your precious post, as that would totally invalidate any point I had, right?

But as pointed out by Mna Grok (sorry if I misspell that, going off memory), level 1 contaminated (the only contaminated that exist) do not scale.

If they didn't add in new powers, and new balancing for the higher level contaminated, then it wouldn't be a real fight.

So, in order to add in higher level contaminated, they do need to design a lot more content.

Or they could just put in level 1s, and have unbalanced gameplay.

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Actually they do exist under the moniker of Infected. They are in a high level portal mission. Their appearance is identical, as is their attacks. They are already scaled for level, TOs to SOs and for ATs.

--Rad

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Pre-I2, the badge didn't exist and there was no way for your toon to get the badge. So you are angry that the devs aren't allowing you to get something that you couldn't get when your toon was at the appropriate level for it. To me, that is like trying to get a Sausage and Egg McMuffin at 6PM and throwing a fit about it.

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HAHA! Thanks for the laugh. That was a funny analogy. This is not sarcasm. I thought it was funny. Text of course is hard to tell, so thought I would clarify.

However, I do feel obligated to reply in kind. In that same situation, all I would need to do to get my Sausage and Egg McMuffin, would be to wait until it is served. I would not need to leave and comeback (The equivalent of re-rolling in this analogy). I could call friends and family in to get theirs but, that does not help with mine (Like getting the badge on another character). All I would need to do is wait. And after they did begin to sell breakfast, I would simply walk up to the counter and order one. They would not refuse me because I was in the building prior to when they were sold. All I am asking is "Is it time for me to get a Sausage and Egg McMuffin, yet?"

--Rad

EDIT: To fix typos and clarify.

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It has nothing to do with intelegence... it has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that I made my choice to Earn Isolator, you apparently did not. That was your choice. As with all choices you must live with the consequences. Thats the point. I fully understand that the truth ticks you off and you are upset, but I'll be upset if the devs cave and give you and otehrs a way to obtain something that I worked hard to get.

Somepeople just dont get it.

EDIT: for myself and others like me, our consequence was spending more time lvln up a new toon. Deal

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They were your words. I was pointing them out. I'm not upset. I did not take it personally. It does not make a bit of difference to me if you feel that way. Just wanted to point out something I had noticed about your posts. Take it as you will.

Once I again, I get it. I don't agree with you. I have leveled several toons created before and after the badge system is in place. I also have post issue-2 characters with isolator. But, that does not mean that I will not express my opinion and hope the devs allow pre-issue 2 characters the ability to get this badge.

--Rad

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Again, if something doesn't matter, when does it not matter enough that the devs are justified in saying no?

If you respond to any of this post, answer this question. It's the crux of the issue, to me.

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It doesn't matter when the badge is removed from the game. Until then, anyone who has an existing character from prior to Issue 2 is denied the opportunity of getting the badge with that character.

Even though others deleted a character and created a character with the same name, they are is still playing a post Issue 2 character.

--Rad

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Actually, some of us were smart enough to create a new toon WITHOUT having to delete any of our pre-I2 toons

My I2 toon simply became my namesake & my badge toon heh, what a novel concept.

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Tremere, this is now the about the 5th time you have either stated directly or or implied that you are smarter because you choose to get Isolator. Perhaps your points should not include such a condescending and insulting tone. Rarely, have I seen this persuade someone to another's point of view.

As I said before, I am happy for you. But, this does not convince me that I should be denied it on my pre-issue 2 character.


--Rad

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Again, if something doesn't matter, when does it not matter enough that the devs are justified in saying no?

If you respond to any of this post, answer this question. It's the crux of the issue, to me.

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It doesn't matter when the badge is removed from the game. Until then, anyone who has an existing character from prior to Issue 2 is denied the opportunity of getting the badge with that character.

Even though others deleted a character and created a character with the same name, they are is still playing a post Issue 2 character.

--Rad

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if I was denied the content because I had passed it, then there would be a entirely different topic on the forums now wouldn't it

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But you DID pass it... you passed the tutorial on your Main. And now you want to go back and get the reward for something you passed, when it would have been soo easy to just roll a new toon then. But alass you choose NOT to and yet you still want your reward.

I fail to understand what is so tough for you all to grasp... It was a choice that each of you made... To go back and earn isolator or not. Those that chose not to now want their reward, sorry if you get no sympathy from me.

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I did not pass up the tutorial on my main. I'm sure you remember that at that time the option to not go to the tutorial was not given.

Tremere, I don't fail to grasp your point. I disagree with it.

--Rad