Poison_Pink

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a fairly easy 'fix' to the imbalancing factor of fears and confuses - put a little protection in some pool power buffs.

I suggest maneuvers gets a little confuse protection (enough to counter one application of a single target confuse such as Deceive), because leadership-led maneuvering seems like it would keep you organized enough not to be easily confused; and tough should get the same amount of fear protection (enough to protect you from one application of a fear power such as Touch of Fear). Tough guys don't scare easy

Approximately the same amount of protection that's in Acrobatics vs hold would be fine.

Since these are non travel power pools, and PvP'ers like to take two travel powers, there would be a sizable tradeoff for taking both.

Alternatively or in addition, give sonic Clarity (and/or the similar thermal buff, Thaw) a protection level from fear and/or confuse (maybe clarity gets confuse and thaw gets fear - protecting from being 'frozen' with fear ). That way villains and heroes both would get some protection at higher levels from an ally.

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Taking Travel Powers isn't really a choice really, considering Blasters are pure damage and range. Honestly your idea would be cutting pretty deep into a person's survival.

The second idea doesn't sound bad to me though.

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Considering it has controller elements I would certainly consider MM controllerish. Is it overwhelming? More than likely not no, but I would not call it weak by any means. I am waiting for beta before leaning towards either side of the fence completely however.

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Erm, but by that standard most manipulations are controllerish.

Energy has stuns and kb
Electricity has sleep, hold, disorient, immobilize and kb
Ice has sleep, hold, immoblize and aoe knockdown
Devices, while not manipulation, has immobilize, disorient and kb

A lot of those have elements that are very effective and easily stackable by primaries or within the secondary itself (hold, stun).

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That was never in dispute. Effectiveness aside MM is based on the concept of mental control, so I am not really sure why you are disqualifying it.

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For the whole psi/psi Blaster issue it reminds me of Neutra playing his completely IO'd out Sonic/EM monster.

The guy does an AMAZING amount of damage....but he takes a shot as well as Mister Glass. That is to say....it doesn't take much to KO him in PvE (PvP is another matter but I'm not touching that because it hasn't been balanced...ever).

On a sidenote to this: How many Blasters do you know that don't have their 3rd debt badge by level 35? If they don't then they team a lot or are being PL'd. To be a Blaster is to incur muchmuch debt.

So really, to me, it doesn't seem like much is changing with Blasters PvE side with Psi. They're still going to do a lot of damage using sets that most NPCs have little resisant too, but it's also going to cause them to die a lot from getting too much aggro.

Then there's also the fact that as far as we know the VEATs Widow-side are Psi-blasters as well.

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Is anyone aware of when further information relating to the VEATS will be released?

Considering it has controller elements I would certainly consider MM controllerish. Is it overwhelming? More than likely not no, but I would not call it weak by any means. I am waiting for beta before leaning towards either side of the fence completely however.

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Many of them do not, no, and for others a few of it breaks down into a few reasons I have detailed here.


Many people will use the OMG, you have not seen the numbers excuse which is in itself erroneous because Blasters are an attack heavy AT. Psi will be increased in order to perform at the level of its brethren sets if only adequately so. Mind Manipulation is control heavy with some serious holds and a regen. It may not be Dominator impressive, but clearly, it is far from sub par. But Castle said, Castle also said the numbers were not final.

Some people honestly do not understand and/or care about the situation and see any content as beneficial to the game. These are some of the anti-whine crusade and merely serve to exacerbate the situation by telling people to [censored] as if they were the devs. These people can be from either side, so it is not just a hero thing.

In short no, you do not have the RIGHT to criticize. You MUST support the games content or else you are not being a team player. Personally, it pisses me off to see a set like this go to the Blasters when my DOM would love MM with the right tweaking, but eventually, you become so cynical you just stop carrying.

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I don't care about your or others' complaining. I just wish you'd add some critical thought to your complaints. We have not seen the numbers. We do not know how well or poorly the Psi blaster sets will do. What we're telling you is to wait and see what the powers are all about then offer criticism.

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But I wasn't complaining, and even said I no longer care. I simply envied the MM set. Lrn2 reading comprehension before addressing an adult next time.

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Reading some of the reply I had to stop because all I read were:

Whine whine whine WHINE whine whine.

Just wonder if you all are like this in the real world, if you are then explains why the planet is going down the toilet.

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oh I fully agree Jutey. This whole issue has been nothing but whining since it was announced...
VEATs? "It's not nictus! WTF! Why can't my heroes wear arachnos costumes!?!"
Powerset Proliferation? "omg psi blasters, omg cold defender, WTF elec stalkers!?! = devs hate villain side clearly"

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The best part is watching people whine about whining. Priceless.

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People love to complain about complaining, it is one of humanity's stupider traits.

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People love to complain in general.

I and others are simply offering up our criticism of these changes. Isn't that part of what discussing the anouncement of these powers is all about? What would be the point of discussion if everyone was happy with the changes and just patted the devs on the back, while those who were unhappy simply remained silent? Those who don't like to hear criticism, and simply label such criticism 'whining' don't seem to understand the point of discussion boards/forums.

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Many of them do not, no, and for others a few of it breaks down into a few reasons I have detailed here.


Many people will use the OMG, you have not seen the numbers excuse which is in itself erroneous because Blasters are an attack heavy AT. Psi will be increased in order to perform at the level of its brethren sets if only adequately so. Mind Manipulation is control heavy with some serious holds and a regen. It may not be Dominator impressive, but clearly, it is far from sub par. But Castle said, Castle also said the numbers were not final.

Some people honestly do not understand and/or care about the situation and see any content as beneficial to the game. These are some of the anti-whine crusade and merely serve to exacerbate the situation by telling people to [censored] as if they were the devs. These people can be from either side, so it is not just a hero thing.

In short no, you do not have the RIGHT to criticize. You MUST support the games content or else you are not being a team player. Personally, it pisses me off to see a set like this go to the Blasters when my DOM would love MM with the right tweaking, but eventually, you become so cynical you just stop carrying.

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Reading some of the reply I had to stop because all I read were:

Whine whine whine WHINE whine whine.

Just wonder if you all are like this in the real world, if you are then explains why the planet is going down the toilet.

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oh I fully agree Jutey. This whole issue has been nothing but whining since it was announced...
VEATs? "It's not nictus! WTF! Why can't my heroes wear arachnos costumes!?!"
Powerset Proliferation? "omg psi blasters, omg cold defender, WTF elec stalkers!?! = devs hate villain side clearly"

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The best part is watching people whine about whining. Priceless.

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People love to complain about complaining, it is one of humanity's stupider traits.

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<QR>

Wow, whine overload.
/psi, just by the descriptions, doesn't look the least bit overpowered to me...Lulz

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They way things are going, a Kinetics MM will be created. for Heroes.

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Ideally, being a Hero AT your needs should have been met, but perhaps the Devs are favoring the more popular sets? Then again it is an old issue, so perhaps they don't care and consider it as "Working as intended."?

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My guess would be the latter, given that the nerf preceded CoV's release. Factor in also that the only other ATs to share the set are — you guessed it — villains, well do the math.

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Then my guess would be that as was said before, the villains are the cause. I find it odd that they would force a hero AT to suffer ourr restraints.

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Roll a Blaster and a join the collective. Otherwise, whine moar.

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I'd rather Pet Gaze got a shorter recharge timer (you know, like it used to have), had *some* kind of secondary effect (To Hit Debuff? Something? Anything??), didn't generate aggro, had its magnitude raised, or hell, let's go for broke and make it a slottable, moderate damage, AoE stun power (like the newly revised Repulsion Bomb).

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Ideally, being a Hero AT your needs should have been met, but perhaps the Devs are favoring the more popular sets? Then again it is an old issue, so perhaps they don't care and consider it as "Working as intended."?

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“WHY NO EMP FOR CORR?” – ELF_STALKER



Empathy isn’t a villainous trait, generally speaking. From a fiction standpoint, it will likely never be given to Villains as a set.

Back to thematics – Empathy isn’t really a villainous trait. From a fiction standpoint, it wasn’t our first choice to port over and the reason corruptors didn’t receive it in the first place as part of the release of City of Villains. If we were to add an “Empathy Like” set, it would need to be all new and not a port of it, to make it fit into the Villainous theme. As such, that fell out of the scope of Issue 12’s powerset proliferation and is why it wasn’t included.



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Frankly, folks, as has been pointed out before, this argument is bull. Not everyone redside is playing a psycho thrillkiller with no human emotions or entanglements. And if we are talking about themes, I assume this means that heros will no longer get Death Shroud, or the ability to mangle people with axes, swords, and blunt objects? Sucking the life out of someone or using attacks with names like 'eviscerate' are, by your 'thematic' argument, not very heroic...In fact, to make it thematically correct, heros should have ONLY Brawl, perhaps a few holds, and new new 'wring hands ineffectually' power.

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The Devs are trapped in teh "Golden Age of Comic books".

That is all.

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Subdual – Subdual deals moderate Psionic damage and may leave the targeted foe Immobilized for a brief time. Immobilized foes cannot move but can still attack. Damage: Moderate, Recharge: Moderate

Mind Probe -- Grip the minds of your foe with a Mind Probe. You must be in close proximity to pull off this attack that wrecks havoc on your foes synapses, dealing moderate Psionic Damage while reducing his attack speed. Damage: Moderate, Recharge: Moderate

Telekinetic Thrust – A focused attack or intense mental power that violently sends a nearby foe flying. Deals minimal damage, but can be very effective. Damage: Minor, Recharge: Moderate

Psychic Scream -- This howl of Psionic energy resonates in the minds of all foes within its conical area of effect, inflicting moderate damage. Damage: Moderate, Recharge: Slow

Build Up – Greatly boosts your attacks for a few seconds. Slightly increases Accuracy. Recharge: Long

Drain Psyche – You Drain the Psyche of you nearby foes, thus weakening their Hit Point Regeneration and Endurance Recovery and boosting your own. Recharge: Very Long

World of Confusion – This toggle powers allows you to cause psionic damage and cause confusion within a group of foes, creating chaos. The chance of confusing an enemy is lower than then chance of damaging them, and it may take multiple hits to affect stronger opponents. All affected foes within the area will turn and attack each other, ignoring all heroes. You will not receive any Experience Points for foes defeated by Confused enemies. Recharge: Moderate

Scare – You entwine a single foe within his deepest fears and cause him to helplessly tremble for a brief while. Recharge: Medium

Psychic Shockwave – Psychic Shockwave is a devastating Psionic attack that wracks the minds of all nearby foes. Affected foes may have a reduced attack rate and may be left Disoriented. Damage: High Recharge: Slow

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Wait a minute. Since Issue 5, Blasters got a health boost, a revised inherent, and now all these pseudo control (not to mention, effectively a self-heal, Build Up, AND multiple AoE debuff powers) in a SECONDARY, and my Dark Miasma Defender's Petrifying Gaze is still the crappiest single-target hold in the entire game, why again?

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Roll a Blaster and a join the collective. Otherwise, whine moar.

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you said empathy is not a villionus trait....but yet heroes have dark miasma...how is that a trait for heroes...at all?

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Because some comic heroes use it or something. It would appear enslaving someone's soul is ok down in hero land.

Eisregen wants you to read a [censored] dictionary.

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em·pa·thy (mp-th)
n.
1. Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives. See Synonyms at pity.
2. The attribution of one's own feelings to an object.

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em·pa·thy Audio Help [em-puh-thee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
noun 1. the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.
2. the imaginative ascribing to an object, as a natural object or work of art, feelings or attitudes present in oneself: By means of empathy, a great painting becomes a mirror of the self.

SOURCE GOOGLE



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“WHY NO EMP FOR CORR?” – ELF_STALKER



Empathy isn’t a villainous trait, generally speaking. From a fiction standpoint, it will likely never be given to Villains as a set.

Back to thematics – Empathy isn’t really a villainous trait. From a fiction standpoint, it wasn’t our first choice to port over and the reason corruptors didn’t receive it in the first place as part of the release of City of Villains. If we were to add an “Empathy Like” set, it would need to be all new and not a port of it, to make it fit into the Villainous theme. As such, that fell out of the scope of Issue 12’s powerset proliferation and is why it wasn’t included.

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I keep seeing this argument thrown around and this is at least the third or fourth thread where I have to say it's wrong, wrong, wrong. The quality of empathy is in itself not morally weighted. Empathy in itself is merely the act of being in synch with another's feelings, either by happenstance or through intuition. Empathy is a very important trait to have for a con artist, door to door salesman or telemarketer for example. All of which could be considered rather villainous careers.

As such, hinging this decision on the label 'Empathy' is plain wrong. Sorry. It's not a villainous trait, granted. Neither is it a heroic trait, though.

[censored], it was Jack Emmert I believe who pointed to Raven of the Titans as an example of an Empath (and probably the best-known one in comics). Incidentally, this is a character who's spent half of her lifetime in comics as a good guy, and the other half as a bad guy.

Now, Samuel_Tow made a good argument that for example the self-sacrificing nature of Absorb Pain for example is more of a heroic trait, and I'll agree with that. I'm just sick and tired of an incomplete understanding of the term 'Empathy' being touted as the main detractor here.



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“Any Red name wanna come out and let us know if Elec/Elec tank is going to be added?” – Lady_Dee



Castle said, “No, never!” and Positron said, “Yes, do it!” In the end, the decision of which sets to give everyone bounced back and forth multiple times. The next question is, “Why did Castle say no?!” At the time, he wanted each AT to keep certain sets so they were only found on that AT – Ninjitsu for Stalkers, Elec/Elec for Brutes, Ice/Ice for Tankers, etc. Ultimately, that concept was set aside later in the process, but some aspects of it remained in the initial pass of Proliferation.

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Good thing this didn't happen or I'd have had to come around and key the Castlemobile. As of my last counting, Defenders had no Primaries they didn't already share, either with Controllers or Corruptors (and/or MMs), leaving a single Secondary Set unshared.

While I'll greatly enjoy making Storm Corrs, I could have lived without Power Proliferation. But no matter what shape it will finally take, I'd expect you guys to incept it fairly across the board. If there are exceptions, then they too would need to be applied fairly across the board. 'Saving' Primary/Secondary combinations for some sets and the less AT-defining Secondaries only for other ATs would not have been fair in this regard.

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Holy [censored], he could have shoved all that into one reply.

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ninjitsu scrappers would have been cool, theme wise also fits well

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Not a bad idea. I think they'd look great with a katana.

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This is for scrappers!

Personally I could give a darn about fire melee. I was really hoping for energy melee with this Power Proliferation happening. Scrappers are the only melee damage dealers that do not have this powers set. Come on Devs, give us a break. Fire Melee is by far the worse one you could of given us. Let alone Fiery Aura.
Energy Aura or Electric Armor would have been by far better options. I just hope down the road you decide to give us these options.

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Was Fire Melee the more popular choice among the Scappers?

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So is lightning his IRL boyfriend or something?

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Would lightning have called me female if he knew me in real life? Please think things through before posting.

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Not really, I simply doubt you are a female. Sure you can "FEEL" like a girl on the inside, but still...

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First of all, don't speak to him like that. Second of all, does that make you feel like a big boy talking to him like that and calling him a fan-boy? Does that win your argument? Know what babies (real babies, not whiny game players) do when they don't get their way? First they cry... then they throw a temper tantrum and lash out. Guess you're done with the crying part...

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Just a minor correction.

<-Male.

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oh snap lightning, i bet you're choking on the listerine now

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So is lightning his IRL boyfriend or something?

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I would respectfully suggest that you focus your attention on places that really are badly out of balance, lest the forums become The Villains That Cried Wolf. If everybody continues to wail and gnash their teeth at perceived insults from the developers, then the real issues go unheeded. And there are issues: but "omg we gave away Thermal and we didn't get anything" isn't one of them. Villains did get something for it; it just wasn't what you, personally, wanted it to be.

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But why should we have to focus on other things now? A forum is meant to express one's distaste. Also, there is a list of issues that have been produced many, many times, by the Redsiders, but nothing has changed.


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...however I do feel that the lack of powerboost on villain side for buffs and not having an empathy since heroes got thermal is wrong. That is basicly my issue.

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Then why don't you encourage the developers to consider Empathy as a villain set next go-round? That would be much more constructive, and it'd moderate the repetitive "devs hate villains" whine coming from the rest of this thread.

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Personally, I feel the condescending lets attack anyone who dislikes the new Powersets peachiness is far more annoying.

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ty for the dueling ladder link. when my build is fully complete i will join it.

oh and some1 posted that i can only beat pl if they stand in 1 spot there is no truth in this i have beaten many types. moves and non-movers.
in no way am i saying Db is perfectin PvP. it all in how u build and play ur toon and i built this guy to take out brutes and stalkers.

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What AT did you beat that was moving?

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A petless MM with Brawl as thier main form of attack ?

OP, I recomend the basics so long as you don't fall victim to the realistic "Only" approach I have seen people fall into.



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Could you post an example of what you mean, Manga and Anime both have large spectrums... also not to mention Korean Manhwa, which I think is a superior more evolved style...

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I agree Anime and Manga do have large spectrums of art styles. However, how exactly are artist like Hyung-taekim "superior" or "evolved"? If I misinterpeted your meaning I apologize, but if not then I am curious.