PeerlessGirl

No. One reward token doesn't "cost" any badges. You don't lose any badges you have. Just that FOR every badge you have, you GET one reward token. You also get one for every year (i.e. every 4 badges) you have. That's how you figure how many you'll have when i21 goes live. You can also earn the badges you DON'T have yet as you go along claiming rewards, plus there are new badges. Not losing anything.

As will a lot of us, if it turns out that way, which I pointed out in the UStream Chat. I THINK Beastyle caught that, but I'm not sure if he was responding to me or someone else.

I said that "those (Consumables) are per character" meaning that when you use one, it's gone, it's not "per account" meaning that all your characters on an account get to use one before it's gone. I can see how you're correcting what I said to keep people from getting confused, and that's fine, but I know what I meant when i said it :P

Let me try it again:

Consumables work once, on one character, and then they are used up/gone, etc. You do not get to use them once on EACH of your characters. I.e. if you get the "5 Dual/Team Inspirations" from the PR Chart, you have 5 total to use, if you blow them all on one character, they're gone. You'd have to wait until more are granted or buy some to get more.

Right. That's what I said. Consumables are vouchers. He clearly said that at one point. Fairly sure Matt said it. The Respecs and merits from Vet Rewards are still up in the air though, and he THOUGHT they were vouchers, but wasn't sure.

Posi and SM did say though that the consumables that are granted from Vet Rewards (Dual/Team Insps etc.) are Vouchers, not certificates. That's fine, as I figured that's how those would work. In other words, those are per-character. Merits and Respecs are still up in the air though.

Huh. Thank you Selina, Terra, and Zombie for pointing that all out. I must've totally glazed over all of that, and missed Zwill's response to Emberley. There's a crapton of stuff in all this to cover. Thanks guys.

To clarify: I and others covered it, because to many of us, it was perfectly clear, however it obviously was not to you. We'll see if you get response, and you can post it. I suspect, however, if/when they *do* respond, here or in a PM to you, the response will be the same as has been indicated.

This has been covered. It's "free" in that you do not *pay* for it, but it is not '"free" in that it does not cost tokens, it still costs tokens (which they have given you).

As I understand it, NEITHER of them are given to you all at once. If one of them was though I'd assume it would more likely be the Vet tokens, *not* the Paragon Points. As I understand it, you receive your allotment (of 400 or 550) on the day of the month each month that would be your billing day, regardless of weather you're a multi-month subber or a monthly subber. AFAIK the same is true of Paragon Reward Tokens.

Terra,

Has it been stated anywhere that we begin accruing PR Tokens in July? I don't recall ever seeing that anywhere. We *do* accrue Paragon Points starting in July though.

I highly doubt this is the case, and would be...unwise. You also wouldn't get "one every three months" you'd get one every month, that's how the system works. I HIGHLY suspect they won't do this, but would be happy if I was wrong, it could be somewhat ill-advised however.

Right. Free points do not count toward what it takes to get reward tokens, only points purchased. Also, Positron did not say that people receive their tokens upfront, i.e. if I buy a 12 month subscription I do not immdeately receive 13 tokens, I receive 1 a month for 12 months, and then one at the end when I hit my year subscription. Just like the current system doesn't reward "pre-paying" the new one won't either. Unless I'm corrected on this point (which I would be happy about) I'm fairly sure this is how it works.

I assumed that, SG, but I wasn't sure if your statement was more of "I believe Peerless believes that" or "I personally also believe this" and did not want to speak for you. For the record: We agree and have the same mindset on this, which is why I earlier was confused, as I'm not sure it's ever happened previously. :P

To clairify there DJ, you get a token every month, you had that right in "2 more months" but you also said "in 3 months you'll have another token" that's incorrect, you'll have 3 tokens, plus any you might've gotten for being subscribed for a year. It's probably safe to assume that they're account wide unless stated otherwise. I can't imagine them "taking away" anything you already have (as that's counter to the stated goal of the new system). The only real question there is the new consumable items: will each character be able to, for example, claim 5 of them, or will that be 5 total per account? (My assumption unless told otherwise on those is that they're 5 per account).

They have not. I would be inclined to assume and agree with you there, that it'll only be for consumables, and they'll just continue to add other new things to tier 9, but until they tell us, it's speculation.

It's worth noting, because many people on internet forums express their opinions as facts. Not saying that you specifically did, but sometimes even if you don't people *take* them as facts. I'm sure the Devs know the difference, but I thought it worth noting to avoid future..."issues".

The word you're looking for is "refreshed" that's what Posi said. That could mean: 1) Rotated 2) Added to or 3) Removed and changed

Assuming 1, you might wait for a while, assuming 2, it would always be available assuming 3, it might vanish from the Rewards list.

Personally, I would bet that if 1 or 3 happened, it would also be added to the market around the same time as either of those happened, for (presumably VIPs only) to purchase. I don't see our devs being heartless enough to FOREVER remove anything. (Except some old costume pieces I STILL want back *glances at Noble Savage*).

One final point of clarification:

The old system did the same thing, there were "haves" and "have nots" it's just your *opinion* that it didn't have that problem because "beyond a certain point almost no one cares about it". The difference there is, that "point" is different for everyone. For me personally, I ceased caring that much once I got my Reveal power. I thought the "Return to battle" and "Remote AH" looked great, but they were way down the line at that point. To the point that I said "meh, if I wanted to unsub now, I could, I've got everything I really want." The difference is, that point was earlier in the system for you, it might be later for many others. That's worth making note of. Beyond that, I think we're done here. It's up to the Devs to decide if your objections have merit.

It's also possible that SG doesn't believe that at all, but was saying he believes that *I* believe that, which is not entirely accurate, as I don't believe the devs would've added it to the end of the current system either, my point was, they certainly COULD have, and had they not have added the new system, that's how it might've been done, if not sold as a booster pack. I gather they've had focus groups looking at this, and those focus groups (presumably consisting of long time players as well--many were I believe flown out to preview this stuff, or did it at an M&G) presumably these groups had little to no problems with these costume bits being at the top of the reward pyramid, or else I doubt they'd have done it. Perhaps they will relent and offer it for sale as well, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

yes, one token opens one slot. You'd need to fill tier 7 entirely before you can enter tier 8. Also, we don't know if/when "bulk" paragon points are sold, if we'll get more tokens or not as part of that deal. They might for example sell 1200 in a "batch" and let you have 2 tokens instead of one for buying it all at once, though I'm sure they're still working out those specifics.

And we're sliding down that slippery slope faster and faster...

Sure, in my gut, I want the new shinies "Nao" too. I am not a "fully vested" vet with everything "handed to me immediately and for free" the difference is, I curb my impulse to have something now, and don't express it in this manner. I assume you dislike the fact that others may get something "immediately and for free" that you aren't going to get? There's a word you use to describe that. I mentioned it a few posts ago, I'm sure everyone can guess what that word is. I won't go off on my feelings about that particular "issue" being what I think is the root of America's (especially, though other countries suffer from it too, to a lesser extent) problem right now, because that gets into politics and things, suffice it to say I believe the world would be better in general, if people could curb their "now" impulses just a little bit more...

You're right though, it is probably best to end this line of discussion here, lest many of us get mod-smacked, it's also derailing the thread a bit. The real point of my whole original post string was that if the system had not been changed, those things might have been added on to the current system at the end, and you'd be just as upset about that, presumably, I know I would. Under the old system you'd have a lot more room to feel disenfranchised and upset, that's why they've changed it. Also it means they can add stuff without continually extending the "months" to the point where it gets rediculous. As was pointed out much earlier in this thread, the game *may* have less life ahead of if than it has behind it (though perhaps not, given that the oldest MMO out there is prepping for a new patch) and people such as yourself might never reach the top end rewards under the old system. I think it just became an issue for you because as you said "after the Samurai Armor, I didn't care about any of the other stuff, but now they've added something at the end I happen to want" that's why it's raising your ire. Ironically, most people I've talked to felt the Samurai armor was as useless as the Greek letters, but that's why people are individuals and have their own tastes. For example I remember way back when being really upset because I couldn't get belly shirts on my second account, because I had a character that needed them, if this system had been in place then it would've been a lot quicker, and I could've chosen it as soon as I reached that tier.

But again, it all depends on what affects each person personally, many don't care about something unless it directly affects them.

While I'm sure I'm going to be sorry for this, and will likely open a can of worms...how exactly does Snow Globe "believe" something that isn't true? And what "really happened with the vet system" exactly? I get the general sense that you think there's some sort of conspiracy theory going on here? SG has explained (to the best of our ability to understand, based on how the system works currently) how things are laid out, are you implying he's incorrect?

*Stares blankly* This is confusing. I'm conflicted because Snow Globe and I agree on something. I think. The universe might possibly be imploding. :P Also, hi, SG.

If Paragon sees enough of it, they might decide to place it on the market (likely for VIPs only) (for a fairly high PP cost I'd imagine, or they'd risk upsetting the vets who feel they got something "special") then they'll do that, if they think it's a good monitary choice. They may also opt not to do that, there's nothing wrong with feedback on it.

No I wouldn't actually EXPECT them to do that, that was my point, they COULD'VE done that, then the people who are complaining would have a bit more cause to be upset. I think it's entitlement. By the same token the people who have 80+ month (of which I am NOT one, though I'm only maybe 6-8 months away in the new system, just to get that disclosure out of the way) vet status feel they should get something "special" for being there that long fighting through all the things they've gone through since the game launched. That too is a sense of entitlement, though I think it's just a tad more justifed, but that's my opinion, of course. Everyone is entitled to their feedback, the problem is some people have "expressed" that feedback multiple times in the same thread, when one statement of "I'm disappointed because of x" would've been sufficient, that's the point at which it goes into 'entitlement' territory, and then eventually, 'whinging'. So far, we're not there, yet. But it's a very slippery slope...

Without building it in some way similar to the way Djeannie suggested earlier (making stuff cost a set number of "tokens" and letting you buy whatever you wanted) there's not really an easy way to do that. The problem with that system is, it doesn't incentivise continually maintaining an active VIP sub to get new shinys (what the current system does, but it's opressive and draconian), because if everyone could just buy up the Remote Vault and Remote AH and Return to Battle stuff right away with maybe 3-5 tokens each, they would, and then they'd have less reason to stay subbed. This strikes a happy(er) medium between Paragon wanting us to pay them monthly and the rewards system not feeling so overburdensome and draconian that newer players feel they'll never get to the "good stuff" they really want. I think especially the changeover to 1 a month helped that immensely, and I suspect if Paragon had it all to do over again they'd have done a monthly vet system back then too.

Edit: I rest my case, note the post above me talking about how awesome the Remote Vault and Remote Auction powers are :P