OreoCookie

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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by baron_inferno View Post
    I don't think anyone here has suggested that the devs do not care about farming at all (exploitive or otherwise). They've been quite vocal about their desire to stop exploitive farming (see AE abuses) but somewhat less blunt when it comes to farming in general. That was the point I was making. Even though the devs may openly disapprove the general concept of farming, they quietly tolerated it none the less. Why? Because they have no choice in the matter.

    Farming is not a new issue. It has been around since the days of Mudding. The developers at just about every MMO has had to deal with this reality at some point. Dare I say that eventually, based on my own observations in the half dozen or so MMOs I've played in the past, they do come to that very mentality I mentioned above.

    What's the alternative? It is literally an exercise in futility for developers to try to eliminate farming entirely from their MMOs. First of all, they run the risk of alienating a sizeable chunk of their subscribers so it doesn't make a whole lot of business sense, especially if it's a smaller game with less subscribers to begin with. Secondly, the resources required for such constant vigilance is beyond the means of most developers. On one hand you have hundreds of thousands of players (if not millions) armed with their creativity and on the other you have a few dozen developers running the game from a reactive/defensive position. Is there any reason to believe that such a game of cat and mouse will ever end? Just how much resource and time can the developer devote to such hamster wheel of an operation before they finally realize that they will have to be make some concessions in order to not get completely bogged down?

    Getting back to CoX, being that it is a game based almost entirely on instanced missions, the task of eliminating farming becomes a virtual impossibility. In games like EQ or FFXI where farming is extremely rampant (some may say fact of life), at least there were the factors of spawn competition and timer for the players to take into account. With instance based games like CoX, there are no such concerns. We can repeat just about any mission we want, at any time we choose. Short of adding a anti-repeat timer on every mission in CoX, there is just no way to stop players from running higher reward missions over and over. Even then the players can just keep track of their time of completion and run a continuous string of different higher reward missions whenever they are up, which is exactly what players in some other games do to get around spawns timers.

    The above is just yet another example of how reactive anti-farming solutions implemented by the developer will accomplish little other than to prompt the players to come up with new countermeasures. It is a bottomless pit. Now I'm not saying that the developers shouldn't try to fix exploitive farming but frankly, it is a waste of development time to devote an undue amount of attention to the so called "farming" problem.
    Yeah, I agree whole-heartedly. What were we arguing about, again? =) /cheers
  2. Some interesting points being made here. I'll just quip in with this:

    I think it takes a lot of work and an incredibly charitable attitude toward the Devs to say that they've been anything but vehemently opposed to farming. Yes, the auto-mish-spawner was an appreciated addition, it saves the farmer a solid 2 minutes each run trying to find fillers. (Not sarcasm) Not only that, but it serves the dual purpose of letting non-farmer uber heroes take on loads of baddies every mish. Intended purpose? You tell me. (possibly getting a little sarcastic).

    Against this single improvement in the life of a farmer, we have how many nerfs? Feel free to pick and choose your 'exploits', I don't care.

    Hamidon, you say? My long term memory is awful, but if it's serving me at the moment I believe I recall at least two instances where Hami got a complete overhaul because "you aren't defeating him the way we intended." A.K.A., "your success proves this is too easy." What's the official count? How many times has Hamidon been buffed/nerfed? (Docbuzzard, I know this wasn't your initial point, but it got convoluted into farm-denial, IMO)

    ITF, Respec trial, AE, etc., you say? These have all been nerfed, in one way or another, at one time or another. True, their current incarnations have been stable for some time now. This does very to show that the Devs are somehow happy to see players farm if they so desire, and I'm holding my breath.

    I won't pretend to know the mind of the almighty Devs, and I'm all for interpreting the position of others charitably, but a little mental math should be more than sufficient to show theys been hatin on teh farmz for a long tiem. Perhaps the issue is that we haven't established a working definition of "farming", but I have a feeling the people saying "any time you make a new toon you're farming" are just being coy.

    Next... YES! THANK YOU Devs for putting in some end game content. Love it, good work. WSF was an even more brilliant idea. As others have said, don't abandon it, fix it.

    Last thought - you want me in a zone, or you want me to play the game a specific way? Give me an incentive, a REASON to do so. Force me into it and I'm going to fight you every step of the way, complain, and just might (and have) take my dollars somewhere else. Destroying what I've put time, energy, and thought into is not the way to equalize or get me to "play the game the way we intended". You can achieve the same end quietly and quickly by showing me greener pastures - I might even thank you for it! (read above). You'd think a team with a long sad history of waiting 7 years to give the players what they explicitly want would have figured this out by now.
  3. I have to say that I thought WSF was a brilliant idea (while shards/NotW were still useful), and I love the new content. I'm taking more interest in the game than I have since 2007, and I'm enjoying it again. I hope the Devs continue on their present course.

    That being said, I understand the flipside; it seems awfully inconsistent (if not two-faced) of the Devs to make uber content only unlockable by farming. I have several level 50 quondam farm toons that were retired after their respective farms were nerfed.

    There's really no reason the Devs can't please everyone here. It would be nothing to provide alternative means of progress and stop spending R&D on totally unnecessary new game mechanics.