Nightmarer

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On the contrary, I think that this shows just how varied builds can be and there is a lot to be learned from this thread.

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Exactly, I insisted on having a build posted due to the title of this thread "New to scrappers". I know it may be dangerous to assume that the best way to contribute to the original poster is to post builds at the same time the flaws on other builds are signalled, but again this "new to scrappers" makes me think that. I only know a little bit about scrappers and I honestly wish I knew as much as you (I mean it) hence I could not let pass an opportunity where, besides flaws are pointed and reasoned (very well pointed and very well reasoned btw) to get a build with suggestions and why, hence we all learn more (in my humble opinion).
For example, your build of course makes perfect sense and is endurance manageable (probably even easy endurance manageable).
On the other hand, I personally would take hasten earlier instead of Build Up since build up is not that critical for PvE IMO and Hasten lightens a lot the long recharge times of BS. Also, a /SR scrapper with only the additional defence provided by Combat Jumping won't last much against for example Infernal (to give a quick painful memory) or Siege, hence the suggestion of Tough, on the other hand, Combat Jumping covers very well for about same defense (more or less) than maneuvers at a much lower end expense, which is a great option of course bearing in mind that at high lvls that scrapper will be easily terrorized. I know terrorized is not that common in game, similar thing happens to psionics so we go happily with our Inv scrappers and when facing the Clockwork King at lvl 41 we all forget about psionics not being that common and cry in rage, something similar happens to /SR with Infernal or Tyrant.
Anyway, yes I wanted to see other build suggestions in this thread and the reasons were because the title of the thread and a build posted on it suggested the original poster wanted to know what to do while he was only getting what not to do and second to get a far more complete information and learning from people who knows far more than me about scrapping for the benefit of everyone reading the thread. Otherwise the interpretation of this thread could have been "ok someone crictisizes a build but doesn't bite the bullet posting one so avoiding to be crictisized" and although I don't know you, I didn't feel that was the case.


Thank you very much indeed for that, honestly.

Think Invincible rep mate, think Invincible rep if redundant we'll have a nice free respec in a few days

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Slot and power wise that is much more similar to how I would plan a BS/SR build, although I would take Disembowel at 26 (it's such a milestone in the set I don't know if I could bear another 4 levels without it!) and Build Up sooner (Build Up and Headsplitter critcal...mmm...).

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But still no builds suggested, anyway it is now pointless since I very much doubt Fire_B is bothering to read this thread any further.
I personally would not use that build (I posted it just as an example based in other comments), but again this thread is long ago dead.

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4 hours? We did it in 1.5 last week!! Still - that'll never beat our speed record for a TF/Trial - did the Caverns of Transcendence in 7.5 minutes!
I think we should have 2 (or more) teams so we can make a race of it!

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I don't remember how long Posi takes, I haven't done it in ages, I was thinking more about the one we did on Friday with Viperfang and Bounty that took us almost 4 hours and we were fast. Anyway if it takes let's say a couple of hours the I have no problem in starting later. On the other hand, not every TF can be ghosted by having a m8 with Invisibility and recall friend like the Cave of Trascendence

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Bear in mind we'll be fighting 15s and 16s on the TF.

Thats assuming we set it to heroic too.

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The TF range is 10-15 and we will only fight 15-16 if anyone in team is lvl 14-15, oooh anyway, sorry to ramble, what I meant is to take everyone into lvl to be able to actually do the TF

Sunday at 6:00 GMT is fine for me, also Friday from 6:30 suits me, so count me in (actually, starting at 6:30 GMT sharp and counting 4 hours TF, any weekday suits me except this Tuesday for the Hami raid). We could also arrange some time during the week to meet everyone who is up to do the TF and sort them to reach lvl10 at least.

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Yup, if you choose Fly for your travel power then Air Superiority is the perfect forerunner to get. Probably the best attack in the travel power pools. (just don't tell the devs )

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That's very true and it's an excellent damage mitigator, besides Hover has the inconvenience that, although it provides a nice defense (always good in an /SR) you can't get in Melee range using Tab-Follow if hovering.
Besides, if you are going for claws, the redrawing is so fast that you won't even notice it.

I guess, for the critics I have seen in this thread, the simplest solution and the most helpful for the original poster would have been this one:

"Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: BS-SR
Level: 50
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary: Broad Sword
Secondary: Super Reflexes
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Hack==> Rechg(1) Acc(3) EndRdx(3) Dmg(5) Dmg(5) Dmg(7)
01) --> Focused Fighting==> EndRdx(1) DefBuf(7) DefBuf(9) DefBuf(9) EndRdx(48)
02) --> Slice==> Rechg(2) Acc(11) EndRdx(11) Dmg(13) Dmg(13) Dmg(15)
04) --> Focused Senses==> EndRdx(4) DefBuf(15) DefBuf(17) DefBuf(17) EndRdx(46)
06) --> Agile==> DefBuf(6) DefBuf(37) DefBuf(39)
08) --> Parry==> Acc(8) Dmg(19) Dmg(19) Dmg(21) EndRdx(46) Rechg(46)
10) --> Practiced Brawler==> Rechg(10) Rechg(21) EndRdx(45)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18) Heal(23) Heal(23)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(25) EndMod(25)
22) --> Quickness==> Run(22)
24) --> Dodge==> DefBuf(24) DefBuf(39) DefBuf(40)
26) --> Whirling Sword==> Acc(26) EndRdx(27) EndRdx(27) Dmg(29) Dmg(29) Dmg(31)
28) --> Lucky==> DefBuf(28) DefBuf(39) DefBuf(40)
30) --> Disembowel==> Rechg(30) Acc(31) EndRdx(31) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(33)
32) --> Head Splitter==> Rechg(32) Acc(34) EndRdx(34) Dmg(34) Dmg(36) Dmg(36)
35) --> Evasion==> EndRdx(35) DefBuf(36) DefBuf(37) DefBuf(37) EndRdx(50)
38) --> Elude==> Rechg(38) Rechg(40) Rechg(42)
41) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43)
44) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(44) Rechg(45) Rechg(45)
47) --> Hasten==> Rechg(47) Rechg(48) Rechg(48)
49) --> Build Up==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Jump(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Critical Hit==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

Considerations:

1.- The number of toggles is reduced to prevent further end drain. Tough and Leadership pool are useful if can be afforded endwise, otherwise they can cause a lot of endurance problems.
2.- The lack of travel power and vertical movement can be deadly on a PvP area and bother the rest of the team. SUper Jump is suggested here because combat jumping defence can substitute the 3% def of maneuvers in previous build and it's far cheaper endwise. Super Speed would also be an option but still lacks vertical movement. Teleport is the fastest travel power but also heavy on end. Fly is slow and will not solve the problem of facing a blaster in a PvP area unless fully slotted, besides hover is also heavy on endurance and air superiority, same as flurry or jump kick may be uncomfortable due to sword redrawing issues.

3.- The passives are 3 slotted for additional 2.5% defense

4.- Elude is been slotted with 3 recharge so's since more defense will take it above the soft cap so, its slotted to be up as much as possible. If you are ot a perma-eluder player you can use only the base slots and put them somewhere else. Besides it is advisable to take Elude at lvl 38 since it is a very useful power that can get you out of trouble.

4.- The last 3 powers are useful but so is Medicine pool due to the lack of self heal in /SR so you may consider taking medicine pool."

This is only an exemple build based more or less in your comments and Firekitty's.
I guess on this way you're not only pointing the flaws of previous builds but also pointing suggestions to someone who asked for what to do and not what not to do, therefore the person would have had more options to balance.

Obviously you are entitled not to do this, but of course I am then entitled to disagree on this not being done.

The thing here is that this post started from someone asking what TO DO. I have to admit that at least, while staying on the safe side of pointing what not to do, you reasoned it. As Firekitty very well pointed, from the very moment someone posts a build is open to critics and it's very true, however, any posting attitude is open to critics and, although you at least explain why do you think something is not a good option, for the sake of the person who opened the thread I think it should be complemented with a suggestion of what to choose and why.

For example, as I said, I totally agree on your comments regarding the lack of travel power on a PvP area, besides there were other problems I myself pointed as a critic of my own build, I think it would have been nice to suggest the original poster then what travel power is suggested and why and how it affects to the rest of the build and, why not, posting the build you feel would work better to suggest it.
I guess we all have the same rights when it comes to crictisize other posts and not only builds are open to that.

Still don't know what bait is beyond the fishing thing btw.

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Dunno what bait is (sorry for my bad english), but I still haven't seen proposed solutions to the flaws of the suggested builds (which I never pretended to be flawless).

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Seriously? Have you read nothing I have said in this thread?

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I did, I still think the same though

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I get the impression that no one really understands how it works.

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I plead guilty, honestly I do, I keep reading the Arkana guide (I think last one is updated to I7) and the Secondary comparisons, too many number for limited brains like mine I am afraid.
Buffy's Guide to Scrappers is easier for me to understand because it moves a little more in concepts, but I guess it's not as deep as Arkana's. One day I promise I'll dedicate a full weekend to get thoroughly into it, if only playing CoH wasn't a full time job

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Flitz was my first toon and is my only 50 to date. MA/SR with Flurry from the speed pool and TP as travel power. Borked maybe, but fun all the way and still plenty of fight left in him. And yes, you want all the /SR powers !

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However if you take the DM route, you won't need all the powers. Replace Confront/taunt/whatever-it's-called with Air Superiority and you'll rock!

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Sorry I don't quite understand this, do you mean if he takes DM he doesn't need all the /SR powers?

Dunno what bait is (sorry for my bad english), but I still haven't seen proposed solutions to the flaws of the suggested builds (which I never pretended to be flawless).
For example, I appreciate your comment on PvP areas which is something I hadn't considered TBH. Besides there's another problem with that build I just realized, that much speed will be a hell of a bad time to move inside mishes, specially if SB'd or with AM. What makes me react is not the critics (always welcome IF constructive) it's the lack of solution suggestions, it is, to bite the bullet instead of keeping in the general considerations limbo. Probably the guy that needed advice got the hell out of the forums to never return again and I can't blame him, I'd be personally disappointed if I asked for help on an AT and when someone posts an orientative build lots of ppl start getting to the flaws of it WITHOUT posting solutions.

Anyway, I also got bored of this, sorry Fire_B, I just wanted to help with your scrapper.

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Nightmare, is Achoo a natural origin? As cannot see any travel powers in your build. Blinkin will be totally Natural, so not going for a travel power aswell. I started with the Entangled Arrow...and have also taken Glue Arrow...when I get to lvl 6 will take Maneuvers too. Not sure what other powers that I'm going for yet

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He's natural origin yes, but since I discovered the combo combat jumping-hurdle-sprint slotted with jump SO's I am not taking travel powers in many toons (except /DA scrappers where is immaterial). With the temp travel powers (btw we need to do radios in Steel for Zero gravity pack as well) and the jump pack that comes along with the Pocket D Vip Pass I think it's enough for most toons
I think Loretta Scars has sprint 3 runspeed slotted and seems to work also fine, I chose this combo because of the Combat Jumping defense, if stacked with a few Maneuvers, we may be just untouchable

Ok, amended

Name: Achoo
Level: 50 Defender
Primary: Trick Arrow / Secondary: Archery
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Flash Arrow==> Acc(1) TH_DeBuf(3) TH_DeBuf(3) TH_DeBuf(5)
01) --> Snap Shot==> Acc(1) Dmg(5) Dmg(7) Dmg(7)
02) --> Aimed Shot==> Acc(2) Dmg(9) Dmg(9) Dmg(11)
04) --> Entangling Arrow==> Acc(4)
06) --> Maneuvers==> EndRdx(6) EndRdx(11) DefBuf(13) DefBuf(13) DefBuf(15)
08) --> Assault==> EndRdx(8) EndRdx(15)
10) --> Flaming Arrow==> Rechg(10) Acc(17) EndRdx(17) Dmg(19) Dmg(19) Dmg(21)
12) --> Hurdle==> Jump(12)
14) --> Health==> Heal(14) Heal(21) Heal(23)
16) --> Acid Arrow==> Acc(16) Acc(23) DefDeBuf(25) DefDeBuf(25) DefDeBuf(27)
18) --> Disruption Arrow==> Rechg(18) DmgRes(27) Rechg(29) Rechg(29) DmgRes(31) DmgRes(31)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(31) EndMod(31)
22) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(22)
24) --> Explosive Arrow==> Acc(24) Acc(31) KB_Dist(33) KB_Dist(33) KB_Dist(33)
26) --> Oil Slick Arrow==> Rechg(26) Rechg(34) Rechg(34) Slow(34) Slow(36) Slow(36)
28) --> Ranged Shot==> Rechg(28) Acc(36) EndRdx(37) Dmg(37) Dmg(37) Dmg(39)
30) --> Aim==> Rechg(30) Rechg(39) Rechg(39)
32) --> EM Pulse Arrow==> Acc(32) Acc(40) Hold(40) Hold(40) EndMod(42) EndMod(42)
35) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(35) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43)
38) --> Rain of Arrows==> Acc(38) Acc(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(46)
41) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(41) Rechg(46) Rechg(46)
44) --> Power Build Up==> Rechg(44) Rechg(48) Rechg(48)
47) --> Total Focus==> Acc(47) Acc(48) Dmg(50) Dmg(50) Dmg(50)
49) --> Glue Arrow==> Slow(49)


---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Jump(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------
May try to put hasten somewhere but not sure

Heya, I am sorry I couldn't make for the TF, 8:00 BST is too late for me unless we start at that time sharp, and being only 5 of us on the required lvl it didn't seem too likely. Anyway, Villarreal 2, Barcelona 0 and I was there witnessing the event, so it wasn't that bad.
As per last night team, I feel that fitness may be required. Besides, after doing the math, if we stack 8 maneuvers, which if I am not wrong is 3.125% def for a defender, we will have a 25% defence plus if we also get Combat Jumping, we get an additional 3% so we can end unp with about 28% which is almost a /SR scrapper defense

I decided to post the build I am planning to use for Achoo here so you can, first give me advice and second, see which powers I get in case you want to choose others to complement or same to stack with

Name: Achoo
Level: 50 Defender
Primary: Trick Arrow / Secondary: Archery
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Flash Arrow==> Acc(1) TH_DeBuf(3) TH_DeBuf(3) TH_DeBuf(5)
01) --> Snap Shot==> Acc(1) Dmg(5) Dmg(7) Dmg(7)
02) --> Aimed Shot==> Acc(2) Dmg(9) Dmg(9) Dmg(11)
04) --> Entangling Arrow==> Acc(4)
06) --> Maneuvers==> EndRdx(6) EndRdx(11) DefBuf(13) DefBuf(13) DefBuf(15)
08) --> Assault==> EndRdx(8) EndRdx(15)
10) --> Flaming Arrow==> Rechg(10) Acc(17) EndRdx(17) Dmg(19) Dmg(19) Dmg(21)
12) --> Hurdle==> Jump(12)
14) --> Health==> Heal(14) Heal(21) Heal(23)
16) --> Acid Arrow==> Acc(16) Acc(23) DefDeBuf(25) DefDeBuf(25) DefDeBuf(27)
18) --> Disruption Arrow==> Rechg(18) DmgRes(27) Rechg(29) Rechg(29) DmgRes(31) DmgRes(31)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(31) EndMod(31)
22) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(22)
24) --> Explosive Arrow==> Acc(24) Acc(31) KB_Dist(33) KB_Dist(33) KB_Dist(33)
26) --> Oil Slick Arrow==> Rechg(26) Rechg(34) Rechg(34) Slow(34) Slow(36) Slow(36)
28) --> Ranged Shot==> Rechg(28) Acc(36) EndRdx(37) Dmg(37) Dmg(37) Dmg(39)
30) --> Aim==> Rechg(30) Rechg(39) Rechg(39)
32) --> EM Pulse Arrow==> Acc(32) Acc(40) Hold(40) Hold(40) EndMod(42) EndMod(42)
35) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(35) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43)
38) --> Rain of Arrows==> Acc(38) Acc(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(46)
41) --> Glue Arrow==> Slow(41)
44) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(44) Rechg(46) Rechg(46)
47) --> Total Focus==> Acc(47) Acc(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(50)
49) --> Power Build Up==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Jump(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)

Well, at least I gave Fire_B a couple of ideas to start with which is the main intention of the thread and it's more than others can say

Yo,

Any news regarding the TF? I will log Achoo every now and then today to check it. Let's plz not start too late since tomorrow is Monday. I am missing the Barcelona game today to do this TF guys, plz plz plz show up

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: BS-SR
Level: 50
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary: Broad Sword
Secondary: Super Reflexes
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Hack==> Rechg(1) Acc(15) EndRdx(23) Dmg(37) Dmg(39) Dmg(40)
01) --> Focused Fighting==> EndRdx(1) EndRdx(3) DefBuf(3) DefBuf(7) DefBuf(11)
02) --> Slice==> Rechg(2) Acc(15) EndRdx(23) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(40)
04) --> Focused Senses==> EndRdx(4) EndRdx(5) DefBuf(5) DefBuf(7) DefBuf(13)
06) --> Agile==> DefBuf(6)
08) --> Parry==> Acc(8) DefBuf(9) DefBuf(9) DefBuf(13)
10) --> Practiced Brawler==> Rechg(10) Rechg(11) EndRdx(43)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12) Run
14) --> Boxing==> Acc(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16) Heal(17) Heal(17)
18) --> Whirling Sword==> Acc18) Endrdx(19) EndRdx(19) Dmg(25) Dmg(25) Dmg(34)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Quickness==> Run(22) Run Run
24) --> Dodge==> DefBuf(24)
26) --> Disembowel==> Rechg(26) Acc(27) EndRdx(27) Dmg(40) Dmg(42) Dmg(43)
28) --> Tough==> EndRdx(28) EndRdx(29) DmgRes(29) DmgRes(31) DmgRes(36)
30) --> Hasten==> Rechg(30) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
32) --> Head Splitter==> Rechg(32) Acc(33) EndRdx(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(34) Dmg(34)
35) --> Evasion==> EndRdx(35) EndRdx(36) DefBuf(36) DefBuf(37) DefBuf(37)
38) --> Lucky==> DefBuf(38)
41) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(45) TH_Buf(45)
44) --> Elude==> DefBuf(44)
47) --> Maneuvers==> EndRdx(47) EndRdx(48) DefBuf(48) DefBuf(48) DefBuf(50)
49) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(49) EndRdx(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1) Run Run
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Critical Hit==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

I guess now there's a decent compromise on Elude being the toon able to go for both PvE and PvP areas if he wishes and also the speed problem is amended, this slotting on sprint, quickness and swift I guess it is slightly higher speed than fly, swift and quickness all with a base slot SO.
Again, this is a build according to my playstile and the idea here is to offer a starting base for Fire_B to find the build most interesting for him.
Btw, I forgot to mention on the original build post and also applies for this one that the slotting lvls is to be ignored since I did the build quickly, so pls if you are going to consider it, forget about the lvls where it quotes the slots should be put. As earlier, Medicne pool and conserve power are extremely interesting options to Leadership that you may want to consider.
I will be definitely giving a go to this build when I start working on my BS/SR in Union (not any time soon I am afraid).

For what I managed to find out, the soft cap resistance may be slightly reduced buy defdebuffs and also by foe ToHitBuffs which are more common in PvP areas. Again I guess it's a matter of choice, for pure PvE i think it's worth give it a try without def slottings, hence when I'll respec my 50 /SR I will leave Elude just with 1 defbuff which I think it's a good compromise, maybe unnecessary for PvE but then I can get into Recluse's Victory and be decently covered if any villain encounter, so I'll put the 2 extra slots i just found somewhere else.
On the original build I posted to help Fire_B (hope he didn't get bored of the discussion), I would change a few slots, i'll put it on next post.

That was the hell of a TF and I had a great time, thx peeps!

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I think you would need a defence debuff in the order of 1000%

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Let's keep this 1000% between you and me for the devs not to get ideas here

Men in Tights Bulletin?

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would it mean that I, with my 3 slotted Elude would get 70-15= 55% keeping thus my 45% defence untouched and a scrapper with no defbuff SO's in Elude would see it reduced to 45-15= 30%?

[/ QUOTE ] That's my understanding of how the soft cap works. Of course I'm probably wrong.

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Thx for the reply, if it works like that, then it explains why a perma-elude scrapper needs it with 3xrecrate, to keep elude up as much as possible since the perma-eluder will use it most of the time including against minor mobs and it also explains why the non perma-elude scrappers prefer defbuff slotting since the non perma-elude tends to use it as a last resource when in big trouble and usually big trouble for a /SR scrapper means defdebuffs involved, at the end of the day, 2 valid paths searching the same thing, avoid faceplanting

Btw, after reviewing my posts, I have to say that usually I am nicer than I sound here, I probably shouldn't post while at work, on the other hand, if I don't post while at work I am bored to death