MonkeyB

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I believe we have one of the most experienced, creative, and impassioned development teams in the industry working diligently to take your game experience to places you've been wanting to go, but thought not possible.

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Its too bad we don't have the most COMMUNICATIVE dev team. ::still waiting for response from a dev in the TF/SF thread over there ---->::

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Castle, BaB, and LH are very consistent about addressing issues that are actually their Departments.
...Reward changes however and Quality Assurance... I think we all know who's department that is, and that he won't discuss the big issues with us b/c we all con "Grey 2 him"

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I'd agree with BaB and Castle, however even LH is staying away from that thread with a 10 foot pole because the last time he posted in it, he was proven wrong by about 100 people with correct tf information.

I'm pretty sure if I went to one of these gaming conventions I'd con pink to Posi. I have a lot of questions and I'd stand in line for HOURS for the chance to ask them in person.

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This game CAN tell the difference between someone thats logged off and someone thats QUIT the tf.

Therefore a better solution to softloading is to set spawn size to team size including logged off.

If someone quits the TF spawn sizes should adjust because they are not coming back.

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I wouldn't mind this.

Some how I don't think Ditzy and MonkeyB would like it.



~MR

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Nope I wouldn't. Nice of you to think of me though. The only thing that would make me happy is if they went back to all the nice things they promised us - like giving the customer what they want. Its clear from this thread that a vocal majority of them - for different and legitimate reasons - want the change rolled back.

So give me what I want.

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Anyone wanna take Bets on when Positron's gonna make a blurb or statement about this? I'm betting we won't see him at all even though he was obviously the one who made the call. Gawd I love it when that Power-Gamer shirks responsibility ...He finally caves to the Casual Gamers' overwhelming demands for fixing the 30-40 grind and wins some huge brownie points with this community, and then flips around and pulls this Epic-Fail "Fix" in the same patch. HUGE Lolz, son.


BtW, if anyone wants to know his thoughts on the matter, just go read the Market Forum. Those 1337 100t "flippers" are all cut from the same stone he was. The more these recipes cost, the bigger their E-dilz get, and the happier they are. That's Positron's "Fan Base" and the only justification he needs for being a total Miser.

[/ QUOTE ]if positron knows what is good for him then he needs to not touch this thread with a 1000 foot pole. I dont see how any answer he gives will be acceptable at this point.

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Yeah fingers in the ears and the "la la la" chant in regards to this, after all we swallowed ED

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I'd love to see a dev response...sooner rather than later. IMO, there's only one accpetable response from him and it is:

"Sorry about the patch notes, we are rolling this change back to actually TEST it on the Test Server."

I'd be happy with something along those lines.

I just think the longer they wait to respond, the more annoyed everyone gets - on all sides of the issues.

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I believe we have one of the most experienced, creative, and impassioned development teams in the industry working diligently to take your game experience to places you've been wanting to go, but thought not possible.

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Its too bad we don't have the most COMMUNICATIVE dev team. ::still waiting for response from a dev in the TF/SF thread over there ---->::

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Or in tl;dr metaphor-speak: If you're having trouble finishing task forces as they were originally designed to work, look for better teammates. Don't ask for exploits to be reintroduced to the game.

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/signed.

Except- Katie still takes 20 minutes and many other TFs can still be afk'd .

The problem is those are power gamer numbers. Most (I'd guess 4/5) players will strugle with light TF teams. If they make the TFs hard enough to challenge the top players, many will be unable to do them at all.

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Power gamers = more than one acct. So it is actually in the best interest of "customer service" to take their opinions into consideration as well.

The change was ill thought out with regards to casual players, pvpers, power gamers, and the economy. Roll it back, allow the players to actually test it out, then IF NECESSARY make your changes. I won't even comment on the bs excuse that it was done for "RMT Farmers" because its not worth even responding to. Posts way up there have more than shown that this change only benefits RMT farming (and for those of you that loathe farming in and of itself, it aids farming too).

The way this was done, and the way it has been handled so far (meaning STILL no response from a dev, and Lighthouse's repsonse was incorrect....) is ridiculous.

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Time to address the original post, I think.

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Such missions have always been intended to be group activities, hence the reason for the minimum group size requirement to start them.

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There are many ways to incentivise group activity. The above is a negative way. 'You cannot do this unless you have a group of at least size X.' A positive way would be 'If you have a group of at least size X, the rewards are better' or 'This challenge is so hard that you ought to bring a group of at least size X to deal with it.'

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We feel that the group size requirements are certainly not onerous

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Finding a group of 8 is one sort of challenge.

SUSTAINING a group of 8 is another kind altogether. People get disconnected, have to go AFK, have issues of all kinds that mean they have to drop out temporarily or permanently.

You really need to look at how minimum team requirements pan out over time as opposed to the start of a mission.

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and that the need for grouping is a good dynamic in a social environment like City of Heroes.

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Yes, but how do you create that need? Gating content by simply setting a minimum team size on it is about the crudest way to do it.

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We want to continue to offer good rewards based on a group accomplishment through such missions and maintaining that requirement is the reason for this change.

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And this is the point where I really have to stand up and shout. I've not seen it picked up on yet, so I'm going to pick up on it.

A randomly selected Pool C recipe is NOT a 'good reward based on a group accomplishment'.

Some of the Pool C recipes are worth doing a TF for. Some aren't even worth getting out of bed for. If you are going to nail a mechanic in place that says 'you MUST do a certain amount of work as a group in order to earn the reward' then you have to apply a similar level of consistency to the rewards themselves.

The reason why people soft load the Cap TF and do Speed Katies isn't because they don't like fighting the opposition. It's to minimize time wastage caused by the random reward selection system.

Who in hell wants to do a whole TF just to get a - I have to borrow the delightful phrase - Crap of the Hunter recipe, or a Snipe recipe?

Let me hammer it home again: if you are going to make the challenge consistent, then make the rewards consistent. It's unacceptable to require people to do a set amount of work for a mere CHANCE of worthwhile compensation. Guarantee the worthwhile compensation, and you'll be on firm ground.

So how do you guarantee the worthwhile compensation?

Simple. Let people choose which Pool C recipe they get.

That takes the randomness out of the process. If all TF rewards are SUPPOSED to be of equivalent worth - and if they aren't, then why the hell are you requiring people to do the same amount of work to earn them - then there is no reason to prohibit the player from choosing which one they want. Inconveniencing players is not the same as challenging them.

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QFT and

<3 Sadako

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Glad you like my idea. I think we agree about most things except the unknowable and resumed veractiy (or lack thereof) of the Devs.

That's cool. I'll just sit over here with my half full glass

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And I will sit over here with my half-empty glass marked "Jack." HEHE.

On a little sidenote, I don't know who said it but they made me LOL when I read: "So Jack came back?" I'm too lazy to read this entire thread again but whoever wrote it ty!

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does that mean you're gonna listen to the player base and revert the TF changes?

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QFT.

The irony that this statement comes the day after such a blindfolded rug-sweep is mind-numbing in itself.

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QFT.

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That one is mine Sadako and its not suggesting a conspiracy theory, since you lumped it in with your other ones, its suggesting that once again, something that they knew would upset the PAYING customer base, was left out, imo intentionally.

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But... do you really think the Devs thought that leaving it out of the patch notes would mean nobody would ever find out?

Come ON! This change was picked up on, without patch notes, within... what, a day? You really think the Devs are saying 'oh! we hoped not to upset our Paying Customer Base, but despite our clever ruse of leaving this change out of the patch notes, they somehow found out!'

Again, I have to ask - once they'd made the change, what possible good would it do them to keep it out of the patch notes on purpose?

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I think they are like the wayward husbands that manage to take the wife's new car out and scratch it. They are praying they don't get caught *grin* but they know they are going to eventually and will deal with it when they do.

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Interesting. If you are wrong, what reasonable evidence would you accept?

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I don't think I am though

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Maybe you have been given the straight story and you are simply refusing to beleive it.

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I've gotten some of those straight "stories" from States (ie, pets were never meant to stack, etc.), so yeah, please devs spin me a straight story. I need a new one to put in my sig!

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In any case, it seems that the changes to the task forces may have simply shifted the farming from recipes to inf. Do you beleive that farming is an issue?

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I enjoy farming. And I'm pretty sure I'm vocal about that too.

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What other changes should be made to task forces in your opinion?

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Positron tf sucks, the shard tfs are awful and absolutely no fun for me. I like your idea of making them all set for 4. Because then I could still SOLO them the way I like to. Ohh and not sure if it was you, or someone else, I'd also like to see them revamped, less run here there mishes, etc. Make them more doable timewise.

As for recipe farming, I like getting the shineys. I just got done doing a pug Manticore and the people were nice, a few went afk, somebody's wife got locked out of her car, somebody had to go afk to pick up their kid, and after 2 hours and 17 mins, all I got was a lousy Pacing of the Turtle - Chance for Slow. Woofreakinghoo. Now, if that had been 5 of me on that tf - I would have had a better opportunity to get either something sellable or something slotable. And you will probably point out that oooh I'm being selfish because I want the shineys for myself. Yep. I am. Which is why when I want to make some extra influence, or hopefully get a miracle or a lotg, I do a tf BY MYSELF or with one of my close friends by ourselves....

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'I call shenanigans on this one. Once again, a stealth "oops" has made it into the game.'

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That one is mine Sadako and its not suggesting a conspiracy theory, since you lumped it in with your other ones, its suggesting that once again, something that they knew would upset the PAYING customer base, was left out, imo intentionally. Its no secret that I am not a huge dev fan, I've been here since States was in charge and some of his changes I just didn't like at all. I was working my way back to polite dev affection...until this change... Anyway, I remember way back when we were promised that they would try better with keeping the patch notes up to date. Is it too much to actually expect them to do that?

And since none of them have the "time" to come in here and refute all the theories, I'm going to stick with mine. Done on purpose.

Not to mention the fact that the only rednamed person posting in this thread...is Lighthouse...c'mon. Its been 3 days...and no offical "rednames" have even addressed this. It isn't as if they aren't reading the boards either, check the dev digest, they are alive and well in other threads.

I got in on my hero on the 2nd to last run. Before that run I got on in my villy (per Ex's suggestion to try villyside, lol I didn't think it would work but it did). Had a blast both times and met some nice people in the hero line (can't say the same about villys because there was NO line on that side). In the long hero line, I was reminded of that southpark episode where the kids stood in line, got to the end of the line and the guy says "Did you enjoy the line ride"?

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"Who you are making it hard on is people who enjoy SOLOING, who enjoy CASUAL game play or those that enjoy PVP and want the accolades."


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I call BS on this statement. TFs and SFs have always been intended to be done as a team. That means not solo. If you can't manage to solo them then find a team.

The funny part is certian players are still going to manage to solo some of these.

Solo players have 98% of the rest of the game to solo with. So no sympathy here.

I also find it hard top believe that this is going to effect casual players to much. Either they have the time to do these or they don't.

All this angst is because people will have to take more time to get thier shiney from the Cap SF.

Boo Hoo.


~MR

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I don't call BS on it since I said it. If I want to team I will, HOWEVER if I feel like not teaming, I won't. This change was made to make it so I have to. I'd rather personally run a Hess TF solo myself. I find it 1. enjoyable, 2. oh yeah enjoyable and 3. rewarding. I do the entire thing, I load in my accts and bam I get the rewards. And since not all of the rewards are IMO taskforceworthy (cuz yeah...I really need that 17,000th "Sting of the manticore" or yet another "Trap of the Hunter"), I am always hoping that ONE out of the FIVE get something I either need or can sell.

As long as I'm not breaking the EULA when I play, I see no reason to penalize me for how I play OR for the devs to tell me how to play. I'm a paying customer, I expect to be treated as such.

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The fact that you need X amount of people to even start a TF should clue people in to the fact that you were not meant to solo it.

I really don't care about "casual players" that invite 4-5 other people to do a TF, have them quit or kicked, then proceed to do the whole thing themselves.
Circumventing game mechanics to suit your needs gets no sympathy from me.

Seriously, they've always been designed this way. The only sad part is how long it took them to fix this.

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I have FIVE accounts, I can start up any task force I want since I can ask a few good friends to help me start them out. So again, as long as I am not breaking the EULA by logging in five accts (and I'm not), then I stand by my opinion. Unless I'm violating a rule, then leave me the hell alone with how I play.

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"Who you are making it hard on is people who enjoy SOLOING, who enjoy CASUAL game play or those that enjoy PVP and want the accolades."


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I call BS on this statement. TFs and SFs have always been intended to be done as a team. That means not solo. If you can't manage to solo them then find a team.

The funny part is certian players are still going to manage to solo some of these.

Solo players have 98% of the rest of the game to solo with. So no sympathy here.

I also find it hard top believe that this is going to effect casual players to much. Either they have the time to do these or they don't.

All this angst is because people will have to take more time to get thier shiney from the Cap SF.

Boo Hoo.


~MR

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I don't call BS on it since I said it. If I want to team I will, HOWEVER if I feel like not teaming, I won't. This change was made to make it so I have to. I'd rather personally run a Hess TF solo myself. I find it 1. enjoyable, 2. oh yeah enjoyable and 3. rewarding. I do the entire thing, I load in my accts and bam I get the rewards. And since not all of the rewards are IMO taskforceworthy (cuz yeah...I really need that 17,000th "Sting of the manticore" or yet another "Trap of the Hunter"), I am always hoping that ONE out of the FIVE get something I either need or can sell.

As long as I'm not breaking the EULA when I play, I see no reason to penalize me for how I play OR for the devs to tell me how to play. I'm a paying customer, I expect to be treated as such.

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Here's a novel idea (and reductionist summarization of my earlier wall of text): instead of messing with stuff, leave it how it was and let players decide for themselves whether they want to team or solo. If the Cap SF is still of major concern, as Katie TFs were, evaluate possible changes to it just like the changes made to Katie TFs. Don't implement sweeping restrictions in gameplay across the entire board of Task Forces.

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QFT, excellent idea.

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Tasks

Spawns in Task Forces, Strike Forces and Trials will now spawn enemies for at least the minimum size required to start the Task Force, Strike Force or Trial.

For example, if a Task Force requires 4 players to start and a team of 8 start the Taskforce, the spawns will spawn for a team size of 8. If 4 players drop out of this Task Force leaving only 4 players left in the team, the spawns will adjust to a team size of 4. If 2 more players leave the Task Force leaving only 2 players, the spawns will remain at a team size of 4, since that is the minimum size required to start the Task Force.

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Such missions have always been intended to be group activities, hence the reason for the minimum group size requirement to start them. We feel that the group size requirements are certainly not onerous and that the need for grouping is a good dynamic in a social environment like City of Heroes. We want to continue to offer good rewards based on a group accomplishment through such missions and maintaining that requirement is the reason for this change.

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We know that finding out about this change after the patch is already live is not the ideal way to go about it. It was never our intent to “hide” or “stealth” this change out, it was simply lost in the volume of other changes spanning many months.

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I call shenanigans on this one. Once again, a stealth "oops" has made it into the game. Personally, I like to solo tfs with my scrapper, so I load in "x" number of accts, and I start them up. You are not making it any harder on "RMTers" you are making it EASIER. Who you are making it hard on is people who enjoy SOLOING, who enjoy CASUAL game play or those that enjoy PVP and want the accolades. Who are you to tell me - a paying customer - how I should play? As long as I am not breaking your EULA, leave me and the other paying customers alone.

I'd think about rescinding this change.

People who want recipes will have to farm TWICE as much to afford the recipes they want because I'm sure they certainly won't be doing tfs to get them.

Edited to add gleefully: First post after a red name (in 3 years! ha!).

<qr>

On Liberty:

::glee these are my fave threads after 2xp weekends!::

I did:

Fire/Emp Controller 43-48
Kin/Sonic Fender 42-50
Fire/Storm Controller 27-41
Grav/Storm Controller 1-14
Emp/Psi - 18-38
Nrg/Nrg Blaster 45-49
Fire/Kin (#3! hehe): 46-50
DualBlades/Regen - 41-43 (I levelled her up to match my friend's level, we are playing them together).
Ice Tank - 33-38 then he went from 40-49 (38-39 were not my doing!).

Levels gained: 83.7
XP bars gained: 837
Influence earned: $217,128,369.00

I got 3 rare purples: Armageddon, Gravitational Anchor and an Absolute Amazement.

And I only played Friday, little bit Saturday and Sunday til about 10 p.m. when I couldn't play anymore I was too tired.

Thanks for another great weekend (and special thanks to Ex for not having it in January ::hugs:

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This would only cap super-awesomesauce levels if you let us all play at your house.

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No way, then we'd have to pl his toons!!!!

(haha!!!)

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ack, celebrate wife's b-day, DXp, celebrate wife's b-day DXP...

DXP!

[/ QUOTE ]Use a Break-Free. No wait. ESCAPE!

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Rare salvage is the only thing that works for wife aggro, diamond, sapphire, etc.

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lol ADH, that reminds me of so many jewelry threads!!!

And thanks LH for giving us adequate advance notice.

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surprise buttsecks?

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Is it ever really a surprise?

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Sounds like a fun idea, but we've been around the legal court before and don't wish to return the EULA is in place to protect us and you as users.

Sorry but no likeness or homage characters are allowed that are the intellectual property of someone else by name or physical likeness.

Our character creator tool is amazing, so there should be no shortage of heroic or villainous concepts that we can create without copying someone else's protected content.

If you have any questions let me know.

Regards,

Ex Libris

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Tell that to Angelina Jolie running around Liberty....lol.

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The only bad thing about market sales counting towards infamy badges, this can be exploited so easily. I can get a lowbie SO/TO and use my other account to sell it back n forth for 50 mil. Do that a bit over 40 times and u get both of the last 2 epic inf badges in no time at all. Don't get me wrong, i'd love to get the last 2 inf badges quickly, but i don't see that happening.

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and as I mentioned above, there's a transaction fee on that.

To do this back and forth on 2 of your alts to get the badge, you're going to be spending 400000000.

In other words, to even reach a point where you can consider exploiting this (and there are other issues with being able to do that) you're going to need to pay a lot of cash. Do *you* have 400,000,000 laying around? Heck, I'm not even sure I could spare 10 mil to pass it back and forth one time!

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I do have 400 million lying around lol.

I absolutely do not like the influence badges. I think they should count the money you earn and make from the market house. For instance, I only use my main badger to "wheel and deal" at the market, so why shouldn't the money she generates not count towards this badge? I hope you guys get somewhere with this consolidated list and Posi. Good luck!

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I think it's about time that all the epic badges get looked at.

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I agree. The money badges I'm ok with since we have a market and IO's now hence the need for constant in game funds, but the Epic Heal and Damage badge should be reevaluated, and this is coming from someone with an Immortal Mastermind. I would NOT feel cheated at all if the Epic requirements were cut down some.

And please activate the tracking meters for Artisian thru Fabricator.

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I"m really late coming to this thread (I was reading the forums and came across it and started from the beginning!), but correct me if I'm wrong, aren't the money badges earned from earning the money - ergo the market sales do not count towards it?

Which makes me curious do the recipes and stuff I get from mishes count towards these badges when I sell stuff to Ghost Falcon?

Also my opinion on the epic badges is (and I'm up to the 5th one for healing..ugh). The healing and damage ones need to be looked at. It took me weeks of setting up a Tyrant farm with all my accts to get it. I am absolutely dreading the idea of setting it up again for a possibly months to get the last one.